New member, reed call problem

[def90]

Hello, new member here from Colorado!

Thought this thread would be more appropriate but you cant post in it:
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=5825

So here I am..

Anyway, starting to play with reed calls, both Elk and Turkey and the problem I am having is that the vibration hitting the roof of my mouth and my tongue tickles so much that I can't get a decent call out.. What am I doing wrong?

I have a Native by Carlton Elk reed call and a Primos Turkey call.

Thanks!
Chad

[ElkNut1]

When choosing a mouth reed which is best for us? Reeds come in 1/2" & 5/8" models, many hunters are unaware of this. Most hunters need a 1/2" reed to fit them best. This means if you have a normal size to narrow palate you will need a 1/2" reed, the 5/8" reed will feel too big in your mouth & you will struggle with it causing frustration. This is the most overlooked feature when choosing a mouth reed especially for newer users. Many times a reed is recommended to us to try because a buddy does very well with his. Maybe he has a large palate so he uses the wider version so we try it & hate it! (grin) Next thing you know is we feel reeds aren't for us because we assume all reeds are the same! This is the # 1 mistake, make sure to choose the right reed for you! Newer hunters should start with single reeds.

One thing to note is any hunter can use a narrow framed reed, doesn't matter if he has a wide palate or not but not anyone can use a wide 5/8" reed. If in doubt consider the 1/2" version first! Some wonder if they can learn to use a mouth reed? If you can brush your teeth without gagging then yes you can learn to use one!

Should I use a standard reed or a palate plate reed? Does it matter & what's the difference?

When using a Palate plate reed the part of the reed with the shed roof or dome goes up towards the palate & the latex faces towards front teeth, these type reeds are not intended to bend or shape to ones mouth, they are to be used as is. If non palate plate reed you'll generally notice a small bump on one side of the reed in the frame about center where tape covers top part of horseshoe. Most these reeds with this bump will face towards the palate not the tongue but quite possibly can work either way if a single reed. (this can vary from call maker to call maker) If double & triple reeds make sure the layering where you can see them stair step face up towards your palate not down for best results. These types of reeds can be shaped to ones mouth or at times slightly trimming of the tape for best fit & feel. Don't get carried away on the bending or you will have a saggy or lazy latex if bent in. If bent to your desired fit it may be necessary to pull apart the opening of the horseshoe open end to tighten latex to achieve like new condition.

Too, I like nibbling or chewing the tape that surrounds the frame on nearly every reed I use when it's new before putting on my tongue & lifting into place. This softens the tape like a wet T-shirt so it molds to your palate & dams all air from escaping as well as softens edges & corners so they aren't poking at your gums. Do not chew on the latex itself.

All this can take a minute or two depending on what's needed to soften material. The first time will take the longest & from there it's pretty easily done with continued use.

Before there's any bending, trimming or shaping on non palate reeds you must know where the reed goes! Here are a few points to consider. The reed is not clamped down by your back teeth or any teeth for that matter. Now allow the right & left corners of the tape to slightly rest against top inside front teeth. The very front of the latex or horseshoe opening should be in the proximity of the ridge or cleft of your palate, the mouth reed itself does not touch your front teeth so it's actually 3/4" or so from teeth, only the corners of the tape should be touching inside of top teeth or gum line. You can use center of tongue as contact point on latex for all Cow & Bull sounds!

One of the easiest sounds to perform are cow sounds, use center of tongue if so desired with light to medium pressure & say Shhhhhhh softly, by adjusting air-flow, tongue tension and or position of tongue in a forward or backward motion very slightly you will achieve the desired tone. You want to practice this first before you move on to bull sounds. Take one step at a time, conquer it, then move to the next step towards bull sounds. One note with bull sounds is you will need to add your own voice inflections into most of these sounds, the mouth reed can only be counted on for those creative higher notes & raspy aggressive sounds, it's a learning process but easily done with the proper motivation & understanding that it will take a few practice sessions to get comfortable with the reed in ones mouth. This cannot be done as a 1st timer in one or two 5-10 minute sessions. Plan on 4 weeks of persistent practice 10 minutes a day, some are quicker learner than others. (grin) Give yourself a chance & be persistent & you can succeed!

Final note, mouth reeds can get old! The latex can fatigue quickly if left in direct sunlight in rig or at home, sometimes in less than 30 minutes. You also have to watch out if left in the home on a table or desk where direct lamplight or sunlight can attack the latex. With lots of daily use they need to be traded out with a new one in a month or so. If doing lots of lip bawls or harsh aggressive bugling their life expectancy can be much less! When sounds are not crisp & clean as the first day of use it's time for a new one! Store in cool dry places.

ElkNut/Paul

[WapitiTalk1]

Ha, thanks Paul. I’m glad, as always, you chimed in sir. I was just getting ready to post my meager thoughts for Chad.

“Chad, first off....elk and turkey reeds are different beasts. Let’s concentrate on your elk reed to start. Sounds like you’re not getting a tight seal which is perhaps causing the vibration/tickle, resulting in poor sounds. Here’s a good thread by ElkNut on how to use elk mouth reeds. See if this helps you start out a bit.

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=72

I’m a pretty good caller and have helped many on their way but it’s a bit tough to do if you’re not sitting in front of me. Work on cow sounds first, that’s your starting point with diaphragms. Once you can get a good “mew”, that’s where it starts.”

[ElkNut1]

Ya Rory there's much to said about Reed use. Guys want instant results in a few short sessions & it just doesn't happen!

If they would just consider picking up the Mastering Elk Calls DVD that we put together they would cut their learning curve down immensely & choose the right reed size for them personally. I cover in detail Reed Use in it & how to achieve nearly any sound an elk makes.
http://stores.elknut.com/mastering-elk-calls/

ElkNut/Paul

[>>>---WW---->]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VITaRJNVuyQ

This link is by far the very best instructional video I have ever seen on how to use the diaphragm elk call. These are the same calls Elknut sells on his site as far as I know.

Two of the best tips I can offer are to place the call in your mouth as Rockie says and say Shhhhhhit and don't try to blow too hard. Start of real easy to begin with and you will be able to increase your air flow as you progress.

[WapitiTalk1]

That's a really good instructional VID by Rocky J, thanks for posting it up WW. Def90, as Elknut mentioned, those reeds/diaphragms don't last forever. After you've somewhat mastered them, you can tell when they're worn out and are no longer serviceable. Until then, its a good idea to have a few new ones to work with until you get this stuff down.

[Tigger]

Been there done that. Not sure exactly why, but I get great pleasure in hearing about someone else getting the super intense tickle on their tongue! Please do tell us if it happens again! Hehehe!

I think a good progression might be to start by saying Shhhhhh. Then on to Shhhhhhit (sorry, no vulgarity intended!). Then to Shhhhhheeeaaa.

[def90]

Been away from the computer for the last few days so thanks for the replies!

Good to hear I'm not the only one and I'll check out the links posted. I bought/loaded the Elknut app on my phone a couple weeks ago so I will need to start utilizing my drive time to and from work for some practice time and see if I can get past it.

[BrentLaBere]

I would try more tongue pressure on the latex or adjust where the frame sits in your mouth.

[>>>---WW---->]

Another thing that might help would be to back off on the air pressure. Some people try just to hard. Try lite pressure until you get that first peep. You will gradually be able to add more air and tongue pressure as you progress. It all takes time and practice. But once you learn, it is just like riding a bicycle. You never forget how to do it!

[Treestandgoatman]

The placement of where your tongue is contacting the latex might have something to do with this also. At first I could only use the middle section of my tongue. If I tried the tip it was horrible, but a few years of persistent and now I have no problems. Might just take suffering through it, which normally includes everbody in my house, and my nabors... They all love July through September!

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[def90]

Been working through it. Turns out I was positioning the call too far forward thus the annoying tickling sensation on the tongue, moving the call back a bit to the middle of the tongue makes a big difference. Was out for opening day Saturday, way too many people in the woods and didn't see anything but I busted out 4 calls for the hell of it and I think 3 of the 4 sounded fairly good, choked on the 4th. lol

Now on to finding the Elk..