is there really such a thing as to much bow for elk?

[JJ Overkill]

the reason i ask this, im in the process of buying a franken bow. pse omen riser, evo cams draw weight of 85-95# bh of 5 3/4". ive always wanted a 80#+ bow. reason being,i want a bow shooting heavy arrows at a really good speed. ive already played with the numbers and i should be able to build a 700gr+ arrow in the 280-300 fps range. a broadhead weight around 150gr-175gr. maybe even up to a 200gr head.not to sure on foc yet. i know most are going to say this is way overkill but i want a pass through no matter where i hit. i know SHOT PLACEMENT IS KEY!!! but bad shots do happen. ill keep ya posted on the arrow build if youd like. i plan on playing with lots of different weights.

[Swede]

Yeas ago I was talking with an elk hunter who described his encounter with a bull. The hunter was on one side of a log, while the large bull was on the other. When the bull was looking away the hunter tried to draw his bow. He had the bow pointed nearly straight up as he struggled to draw it. As he strained, the arrow fell off the rest alerting the bull which burst out of there. I never asked what the draw weight of that hunter's bow was, but it was too much. To me the question is not is the bow too much for the elk. Is the bow too much for you to draw smoothly, on the level, without straining something?

[JJ Overkill]

great point swede. i still have my other bow which will work great for anything. thats something i will have to test close to season once i shoot it for a while. i practice holding my bow a min just incase im stuck in full draw for awhile. i try to put myself in odds spots and make good shots from them while practicing. ill have to see if i can make myself struggle closer to the season. again great point.

[CrazyElkHunter]

Try pulling it back on a cold day with all your heavy cloths on and a back pack. Makes a big difference. When I was younger, I also thought shooting 70+ lbs was needed. My last 15 elk I have taken have been with bows set between 58 and 60 lbs. 8 of those were complete pass throughs. Unless your going after cape buffalo, your over doing it for elk in my opinion. Like Swede said, if you can not make a smooth effortless draw, you will risk spooking the elk, pull a muscle or both.

[Swede]

Another point I should have made is to remember that you lose ability to draw a bow when you are cold. If you are real cold, the difference is considerable. I am satisfied you can draw much more bow than I can, in fact you are in a totally different league. Enjoy your bow. I would bet it would be exciting to see you shoot a big bull head on at close range with that setup. It would be interesting to see a big bull with a broad-head sticking out his back side looking like some new fangled tail.

[Indian Summer]

Yep... it's too much bow when you can't easily draw it AND hold it back for a reasonable amount of time. Otherwise I'm with you. I have a 70# bow and shoot it maxed at 73. I'm actually thinking of lowering it to be able to hold at full draw longer for bears next month. If I like it I may leave it that way.

I guess part of the question would be what do you really need to get the job done right.

[bnsafe]

it hurts me to much to pull much over 60. my last bow was a 50-60 and killed just fine set at 63. i bought a bow last fall and went with the 55-65 lb limbs just cause i knew i was comin out here. but it wasnt for penetration, it was for longer shots and more speed. i shoot it at 65. imo this is almost to much, for me. if i was 20 again and able to draw it wouldnt matter. on a side note my daughter was shooting a 42 lb bow and had complete pass thru on a deer. i think it matters more on broadhead sharpness and where you hit. if you hit the front shoulder i dont htink it matters what your shooting.

[buglmin]

All this heavy bow heavy arrow thing to kill elk has really gotten out of hand!! 80# bows and 700 grain arrows to kill elk?? Why do you need such a heavy bow and heavy arrow? Really, can you shoot that bow comfortable and accurate after shooting 20 arrows from it? Bet your pin gap sucks...
I'm in the process of building arrows for my lil 53# Sierra Blanco recurve bow, shooting small diameter Black Eagle Arrows Rampage shaft, 398 grains with a 135 grain Zwickey on them...I had the oppertunity to shoot this arrow at a big road killed cow elk last week, and penetration at 30 yards was superb!! On both broadside and quartering away shots, the lil 17/64" shafts really impressed us with the way they penetrated!!
Arrow penetration is all about perfect arrow flight and the broadhead. Finding a bow that can be drawn smoothly with little movement from kneeling positions and shoots whisper quiet is more important then draw weight. Id rather see some one stacking arrows with a lil 55# bow then someone struggling to shoot a 80# bow after only 10 shots. And like stated above, can you draw that bow back smoothly after climping for a few hours and youre stiff and cold?

[pointysticks]

if you can draw it back..why not? go for it.

me, my next bow will be a 60lb limb bow. my shoulders are failing me. heck, my shoulder will be the reason for the next bow. i need an easier hold.

[JJ Overkill]

with a some time and lots of practice i think i could shot this bow 50+ arrows in a row. i dont plan on grabbing it and shot till it hurts. its almost like heavy weight training, you slowly work your way up. as far as most of the other questions on shooting from different postions, i dont know. i dont have the bow yet. theres a reason im hanging on the my 350 destroyer. i might get it and just flat out hate it. but its a good deal and i have to try it. you all make valid points. id be asking most of the same questions if it wasnt me. as far as a 700+gr arrow. it would be intersting just to run through some test with. id have to see what the max penetration i could get with it and what head.

[Indian Summer]

Speed is pointless. As you already know judged by your mention of a 700 grain arrow kinetic energy is the main factor. That said you only need a certain amount of it to do the job. I guess it could be said that anything more is preparing for marginal or poor shot placement. The heavy shoulder blade of a bull elk would be a worst case scenario. But even if you can work your way up to that it would be safe to say you'd be more comfortable, especially if it turned into a staring contest for 5 minutes, with a lower draw weight. The other thing to consider is nerves. You can't factor that in at the target range. We all know 50 pounds will kill an elk. Hunters who shoot lower draw weights know their limitations and don't take marginal shots. But anything over 70 pounds in my opinion is just overkill.

Think about this. If you hit a bull in the shoulder it will most likely live. If you shoot it with a 90 or 100 pound bow you could probably kill the animal BUT... it's not going to fall over within 100 yards + or minus like he was hit anywhere in the lungs and I would guess you don't find it. He'll go far hit there and probably not die til 12 hours later somewhere buried in impenetrable nastiness.

I know guys who shoot bows like that but it is for good reasons. Cape buffalo and elephants.

[FemoralArchery]

Why does anyone hunt with a rifle bigger than a .243?

A .243 is capable of killing an elk when the bullet is placed where its supposed to be. Why use a bigger gun? I bet almost all, if not all of the people above use a bigger gun than a .243 when rifle hunting for elk...

If you can shoot it accurately, and you can shoot it accurately cold (first shot) then what does it matter?

If you can shoot it accurately enough to be as confident as you would be in your other bow, then do it.

[pointysticks]

to answer the question.

i dont think there can be too much bow for elk. if you can, and want to..why not? go for it.. a big heavy arrow shot out of a super fast, high DW bow, why not?

i am a big believer in overkill. hahah. diesel trucks, big guns..

[Swede]

As I posted above, I have no issue with a person shooting a 90+ lb. bow with a 700+ grain arrow for killing elk. That said, I somewhat disagree with the comparison of bullet energy with arrow energy. The two projectiles kill differently. I do not mean to gross out anyone here, but if I wanted to kill a house cat, placing 50 lbs. of rocks in the gunny sack would be no more effective in drowning Fuzzy than ten lbs. I do not care if a rabbit hunter choses to shoot that 90lb. bow or a 40 lb. bow. They will both do the job very well, and if you miss, that is all the same too.

[FemoralArchery]

A bullet doesn't kill by causing blood loss?

News to me.

Again, I'm with pointysticks, if you can, why not?

[JJ Overkill]

^^^^^ i love the comparison with the gunny sack!

im like the overkill king on poor defensive animals, i once shot a green wing teal with a 3 1/2" #2 12ga @15 ft. another time i shot a small spike whitetail with a 395gr hollow point pushed by 150grs of balck powder @20yds. that made a mess. so this type of a bow just might be overkill but if i can shot it from many different shooting postions and hold it back for a min or longer im ganna have to try it. ill keep you guys posted on my thought once i get this bow in hand and start shooting.

[JJ Overkill]

A bullet doesn't kill by causing blood loss?

id have to say yes and no, yes a bullet causes extensive bleeding but it more to do with the massive amount of energy released buy the bullets speed and expansion. im sure youve seen a heart hit dead center with a bullet. it turns it almost inside out and blows a big hole through it. its mainly the shock of the bullet that kills. a broadhead makes a nice smooth cut through a heart, not much energy released. a broadhead cuts arteries and vains, resulting in bleeding filling up the animals cavity and drowning the lungs basicly and major blood loss.

so yes they do kill differently.

[JJ Overkill]

indian summer,

i forgot to comment on the staring contest, if the bulls within 20yds and im at full draw, ill be taking a frontal shot . oh boy this thread could take a turn here.

[Swede]

I am no technical expert on the subject but, bullets can and do kill by causing massive bleeding if you hit an artery without hitting something that will cause death sooner than bleeding. Generally bullets kill by what is known as hydrostatic shock, and massive damage to vital organs. Bullets also kill by pulverizing regions of the body so they can no longer function. Broad heads usually kill simply by causing massive bleeding.

[Indian Summer]

Do you really want me to comment on that? I can tell you're serious too. So if I can pull hold and shoot X amount of draw weight there's no such thing as a bad shot angle? oops... I already commented.

A little saying I use all the time: Killing a bull elk also means finding it. I've found elk 2 days and 2 weeks later with the help of ravens and bears. What good is that right. If you've never been there keep hunting and you or someone with you will & the reason will be poor shot placement. Elk are tough!

I like overkill too believe me! I shoot a .300 Ultra mag for an elk gun reloaded with 200 gr. Nosler Accubonds and a half a keg of RL25. I've shot deer with it many times too. Little whitetails. I guess I should have said that any weight you can comfortable shoot is obviously ok. I agree the more the merrier until you begin to diminish the time you can hold at full draw. But even with a .300 R.U.M there's such a thing as a bad angle.

[JJ Overkill]

i wasnt serious on the frontal shot . im not going to agrue on this. you dont know me personally or what my ethics are. i will say im not new to hunting. i understand where your coming from though.

[Indian Summer]

I just know how many people read these forums and it would make me, um... nervous to think that they might be persuaded to take a frontal shot. The reason being that was my very first lesson. My brother had a really nice 6 point herd bull come straight in. The bull was less than 10 yards away and he took the shot. Buried the arrow all the way to the fletching too. Thick fat and thick hair meant no blood trail and we never saw that bull again.

I had a 2nd chance to learn that lesson from a couple gun hunters. I had 2 clients standing on a rock outcropping and a bachelor group of 6 bulls stepped out to the edge of a meadow. They both shot 30-.06s and it was about 175 yards. One bull dropped on the spot. We trailed the other short way before it turned uphill so we went to camp had dinner and came back 2 hours later. It was only a couple hundred yards from camp. No luck. The next morning we were back at it and eventually caught up the the bull, a small raghorn 5 point. he was still very much alive about a mile and a half from where we started. He jumped up from his bed and the hunter finished him off.

The bullet had hit to the left and slid in between the lung cavity and the front right leg. The bull was facing him when he shot. it didn't break the leg bone and didn't do any real damage to the vitals. It just put a hell of a hurtin' on him. I was so glad we caught up to him. I bet the poor young guy had a miserable night.

I'm glad to hear you were kidding about that. Sorry if I was a bit too serious about it. I guess when you've made a living hunting anything you get a bit touchy about ethics when you meet people who sometimes don't feel the same way. Not to suggest by any means that you were that guy. There's no denying that although I am a predator to the bone I'm also a huge animal lover.

[JJ Overkill]

i agree with the last part 100%. ive passed up a lot of shots on animals due to angles and brush. i get sick to my stomache when ive made a bad shot, it only happened once where i lost an animal but i learned very fast that i didnt want to do that again. i have very high standards when it comes to bringing a ( enter weapon type here). my rifles and i have to have a connection, ie. shot very well together. my bows and i have to get along even better. im not kidding when i say i will run myself through some test to see if i will hunt with a certain bow. like i said, i due put stock in what your saying. i get into arrow debates all the time. i kills me when people say speed is key for penetration. i feel there needs to be a happy medium of speed and weight. this is my typical example. would you rather use a 1lb hammer to pound a 4" post inthe ground or a 16lb hammer. everyone says a 16lb hammer, so i counter with but i can swing a 1lb hammer faster. usually gets the point accross.

this might sound harsh but i make my son qualify to go bow hunting every fall before season. he has a certain target at a givin range and he HAS to have 5 arrows inside the target. usually at 30yds. it makes him practice with his bow. i tell him i cant shot your bow for you, its up to you to get good with it. it does put a lot of pressure on him but its nothing like shooting at an animal. on a side note we go online an look at pics of elk and i ask him where he would aim. there have been pics that hes said theres no shot. so im getting my lessons accross to him. its good practice for me as well.

[JJ Overkill]

to answer my own question, theres no such thing as to much bow for elk, but there is to much bow for the shooter ! i got my new bow today. i was figuring 15 more lbs wouldnt be that big of a deal. WRONG!!!!!!! i got 15 shots through it and had to quit. my shoulder muscles went dead. im still going to be working up to the poundage but for right now my 70# destroyer is my bow of choice for this season. but i can tell you that this new bow hammers a 652gr arrow into a target. very impressive. i got it to group very well. for just putting a rest on it and throwing on a site. with 105 days until elk season im not sure this bow will leave the house, unless its a backup bow for one of those OH CRAP moments.

[Curvebow]

Years back, I shot an 80# bow with 2219 aluminum shafts with 245 grain original Rothaar Snuffers! In days of old, if you wanted a faster setup, you had to increase draw weight. There are more options today.

I understand that people of age (me included!) can't draw weights that they used to, but my philosophy of then and now is - use the heaviest bow that you can shoot accurately. I shoot 67# now and can draw it in any weather with the bow held in one position. I have never subscribed to the "60# is enough, you don't need more" theory. Similar to the 243 analogy in a previous post. Sure, lighter stuff can work in perfect scenarios. But, in the real world, it doesn't always happen that way. Heavier draw = more KE = more depth of penetration = greater chance of recovering an animal; as long as you can shoot it accurately!

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[Bartfrncs]

I shoot 72# that's a lot of bow. That said can you hit at 50 yards? If so go for it.

[slim9300]

No if you can shoot it well. Most guys struggle with accuracy and form when shooting high poundage setups.