diaphragms

[quarbles]

have been enjoying toying with a diaphragm. great fun. but i think i pressed too hard too often and the poor thing is dying. i was 'learning' on a bugling bulls all star. was looking for input on the glacier country hunting calls. i'm gathering there is no little plastic dome. does this make it way more difficult (in a training wheel fashion)? what would be a comparable glacier country do all (such as the all star was said to be)?
in theory, would one want to stick with one diaphragm to represent the elk they are portraying, or should one jump around diaphragms for specific sounds? or is it more whatever specific diaphragm works -for you- to solicit the sounds you want?

[Swede]

Here is what I understand about diaphragms: Some fit better than others fresh out of the package. I like the Primos Palate plate ones best that way. Some people have good success by slightly trimming their diaphragms. It has not worked for me, but maybe I should have experimented more. Elknut1 suggests chewing the edges of new diaphragms to make them more flexible. That makes them seal better. I am going to try that, as it makes sense to me. I too have had to press a little too hard to keep a good seal. I believe it stretches the latex as you indicated. Maybe it is a good time for you to start chewing on your diaphragm edges too.

[bnsafe]

personally for me i cant stand the dome topped ones. but i grew up with a turkey call in my mouth and the calls today are much much easier to use and learn than the old ones. either one will work, just get one thats comfortable and practice, practice, practice. it will come

[Glacier Country]

[quote="quarbles"]have been enjoying toying with a diaphragm. great fun. but i think i pressed too hard too often and the poor thing is dying. i was 'learning' on a bugling bulls all star. was looking for input on the glacier country hunting calls. i'm gathering there is no little plastic dome. does this make it way more difficult (in a training wheel fashion)? what would be a comparable glacier country do all (such as the all star was said to be)?
in theory, would one want to stick with one diaphragm to represent the elk they are portraying, or should one jump around diaphragms for specific sounds? or is it more whatever specific diaphragm works -for you- to solicit the sounds you want?

Quarbles, I have a couple calls that will fit the bill, first of all my calls do not have the dome that the Allstar does. Rockie Jacobsen designed that and it is a very good design.I consider Rockie a friend and mentor. I used his calls before I started making my own and myself and my family won a lot of contests with his calls. I actually liked his calls with the metal pallet plate like the Raging Bull the best. He is an innovative guy and does make very good calls. What I have found is that some people like the dome or pallet plate and some do not.

I do make some of the best non pallet plate calls that you can get. If you are trying to get calls that are very versatile then my Orange Enrager and Watermelon calls are both Excellent Choices. With my calls you can bend the frame slightly and or cut the tape to help fit it to your pallet. You asked about the plastic dome. Well Everyone's pallet is shaped a little different. To be honest if you look at the different calls on the market that have the dome some are wider and some are taller than others. Some people have a hard time if the dome is too wide or too tall. Some people feel that they help hold the call in place. With the different domes or plates you will have to try them to know. With my calls it is the same you really will have to try them to know if they fit.I will say this, my son drove me crazy when he was 5 years old I tried so many different calls trying to find calls that fit him. None really did.He finally just figured out how to put his tongue on the diaphragm to hold it where he wanted it. So he could get a good air seal. He won a Pee Wee World Championship a few months later on a call without a dome. I have a lot of experience helping new callers. With calls without a dome especially, you really are better off learning how to call by starting without much of a growl. Start with more of a mid tone, ( think a goose sound,)with just enough pressure to make the call break to the next tone on its own then put more air and tongue pressure to the calls. You also want to start out with your jaw slightly lower and put a little more camber in your tongue than most of you use. Picture a Bucking horse with his front end down and his hind end bucking up in the air. This is about what your tongue should be doing IMO. You will get a lot more out of any call you blow dome or not.

Specific sounds. Well I have found there are 3 basic views on elk diaphragm callers 1.Guys who use mostly Cow and calf sounds 2. Guys who mostly only bugle and use bull sounds 3. Then there are guys who can and do make both Bull and Cow/calf sounds. So,I make diaphragms for every one of these types of elk callers. My cow calf diaphragms are made to specifically make cow and calf sounds.They are made with lite latex for very realistic. cow and calf sounds. My Bull Diaphragms are made to locate and Challenge Bull elk. I make a few diaphragms that are very versatile. They make very good Cow and calf sounds but are Slightly geared more for Bull sounds ( out of the package) . I want to be able to belt out an awesome bugle with these calls and as the latex stretches it will make better cow /calf calls. Whew I got a little windy But I covered alot of ground with this post and I hope this helps. I personally locate bulls using a Blue Blaster or Red Ripper then as I get closer I switch to a call that more closely fits the situation or the Story or the picture that I am trying to paint in the elks mind. That may be a cow/calf call like the Sweet Temptation or Sweet Seduction or a versatile call like the Orange Enrager or Watermelon. I might pull out Troys Secret weapon and scream at the herd bull to make him try to run me off. Different calls for different situations.
Do you only take one lure when you go fishing? Not me. The one call you should never leave home without is a bite call called the High Heel Hottie.
It only takes 3 minutes to learn how to use and can be a total game changer. So deadly. Hope this helps. Troy

[Glacier Country]

Calling a Bull with the Orange Enrager.

[Glacier Country]

Sweet Temptation.

[Glacier Country]

My 10 year old son with a Blue Blaster Bugling a bull.

[Indian Summer]

The only sound I can make with a plastic dome call sounds like a chicken fart.

Primos Imperial Plate (red one) for me and I can sound like any elk on the mountain bull or cow.

They all wear out so buy 3 at a time.

A piece of advice.... do NOT blow one through a Chuckler tube unless you have an arrow nocked!

[quarbles]

thank you for all the great information! glacier country, i really appreciate the thoroughness and samples, exactly what i was hoping for. i think half the problem i experienced wasn't fit per say, but i thought i really needed to have the diaphragm flush (suctioned) to the frontal roof of my mouth, damaging the latex in the process......

[bnsafe]

its def a learning process that takes time. some of the easier ones work ok but dont make the right sound that you really want. whatever you get get a good one and practice, it will come together in time.

[quarbles]

i was just rereading glacier country's response..... why would you take a bite call if you were using mouth diaphragms? wouldn't it be easier to rely on the diaphragm in ones mouth as opposed to a call dangling from one's neck? just my lack of knowledge, but i was under an assumption that bite calls would be an alternative to those whom don't like a diaphragm....
or does this combo of mouth and bite calls let one's focus on mouth diaphragms shift from a versitile (okay at everything, best at nothing) one to a more bugling specialized one?

[Glacier Country]

i was just rereading glacier country's response..... why would you take a bite call if you were using mouth diaphragms? wouldn't it be easier to rely on the diaphragm in ones mouth as opposed to a call dangling from one's neck? just my lack of knowledge, but i was under an assumption that bite calls would be an alternative to those whom don't like a diaphragm....
or does this combo of mouth and bite calls let one's focus on mouth diaphragms shift from a versitile (okay at everything, best at nothing) one to a more bugling specialized one?

quarbles, to answer your question about bite calls. I am a very confident diaphragm caller, but I still use a bite call in different situations. I have called in numerous bulls from well over 500 yards with a bite call. The short answer is that I know that they work! I Remember Big Al Morris telling me one time that if he could only have one call it would be a bite call. He guided on the Three Forks Ranch and is a world class caller. On the right day they can not be beat! I get Elk interested from a distance with a bite call,the same way I would with a bugle, and then I close the deal with a diaphragm. I think that bite calls make that loud come here now and estrous sounds that say Want to get lucky big boy. Also not just bulls answer the bite calls , but it only takes one elk to speak up to give the whole herd away. It is a safe call in my opinion. They answer to tell you where they are.
Also I personally never have a bite call around my neck when I am hunting with a bow. Way too much of a chance of it getting caught in a bowstring IMO. Hope this helps Troy ---->GCHC

[quarbles]

yes, thanks again for the informative response. boy, this forum.... what a great venue for learning.....

[Glacier Country]

I have had a request for the Red Ripper Audio. So I thought I would post it here as well. This Audio does not do this call justice it is much louder than it seems on this Audio! Hope This Helps. ---> Troy

[Glacier Country]

The Orange Enrager is one very versatile call. This is a great call to use the last 150 yards to Close the deal. It makes great excited cow and calf sounds and a fantastic 5 point bull voice and grunts and chuckles, Incredible lip bawls. This is such an awesome call! I almost forgot to mention how easy the Orange Enrager is to blow. I recommend this call for anyone just starting out as well, because it is very easy to blow softly and hit all of the different pitches when learning how to call. That being said I have a ton of very experienced callers who love this call as well, because it is so easy to blow and the sounds it makes are so just incredible!

[Glacier Country]

The Watermelon was named by my daughter because it is green with red latex so it looks like a slice of Watermelon. She also said that if a guy sent his wife to the sporting goods store to get a " Watermelon Elk Diaphragm" the people at the sporting goods store would know exactly what she was talking about.
The Watermelon is probably our most versatile diaphragm because it is still so easy to blow, makes great cow and calf elk sounds, Bull sounds that are just Fantastic. Very good location bugles, great lip bawls, Awesome grunts. The list goes on... The sounds made on a Watermelon are just a shade older than the Orange Enrager, and it is a better call for location bugles because it has a little more backbone. It is also a very very good Turkey call as well!

[Glacier Country]

Quarbles, Here is the Troy's Secret Weapon. I did several different kind of bugles.I think I did some location bugles, a couple lip bawls. The TSW is just another AWESOME call. I will post a Bull Scream Later. Hope this helps. ---> Troy

[Glacier Country]

quarbles, So I recorded a real bull elk doing the bull scream. He runs off 2 other smaller 6pts. Then I bugled on Troy's Secret Weapon and tried to mimic his "Bull Scream" bugles. Notice how mad he sounds. The aggression in his voice. He is flat out telling them he will kill them. While he battles the 1st intruder a 2nd bull charges in to this bugle. The Herd bull then Barks and Really Screams at this new intruder and runs him off as well. Hope this helps---> Troy GCHC

[Glacier Country]

quarbles, Here you go. Yea they work! Hope this Helps -----> Troy

[Solitude]

My advice to any new caller is to buy a couple diaphragm calls that are advertised as easy to use from different manufactures, and find what works for you.

They are kinda like boots, no one diaphragm fits and works for all. The good thing is they do not cost you hundreds of dollars so the ones that do not work for you, you can simply throw in a drawer and let your kids mess around with them.