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Ye Old Cellphone GPS Thread

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Ye Old Cellphone GPS Thread

Postby lamrith » 07 21, 2016 •  [Post 1]

Seems like this comes up every year. With the pace of advances in tech and apps, often year old info can prove not with the bits it is stored in. I know for me, I would much rather leverage an existing piece of electronics, than to purchase another one and have to plan for carrying it, it's batteries, memory cards, etc, etc. Some Cell carriers are terrible in the sticks (I have ATT and they are worthless), but if you treat it like any other GPS you have to have your maps coords input before you leave town anyway.. That said I tried Trimble over the weekend, I had no cell and thus no maps, but I was still able to drop markers, waypoints and run tracks on our scouting hikes. For a greenhorn, tenderfoot city boy, that added a factor of comfort that I could at least pull up current location, vehicle location and be able to plot a course to safety.

SO, I am hoping we can put together a comprehensive list/comparison of the current state of Smart phone based GPS apps. I a sure I am forgetting things, and the info below is just things that popped into my head as useful for comparing apps... If we build up enough info, maybe we can format it up and the Phantom of the Elkwoods can sticky it for everyone.

Can those that have used them do a quick review of how they worked for you?
APP Name:
Cost (free vs pro app/maps):
Major differences of Free/pro versions:
Notable Features: compass headings to waypoint, ease of dropping markers/waypoints, link pictures to coords, satellite vs topo maps, property ownership, offline scouting/mapping on PC, sharing maps/tracks with others, etc, etc, etc..
Basic Pro's:
Basic Con's:

Please feel free to list any ones not mentioned, the ones I see mentioned commonly are:
Trimble GPS Hunt
GAIA
OnXmaps
PDF Maps(Avenza)
Back Country Navigator
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Re: Ye Old Cellphone GPS Thread

Postby TurkeyBowMaster » 07 22, 2016 •  [Post 2]

I saw a comment on BS about this subject on bs which eluded to the fact that hand held GPS should go away because everyone has a phone with a better screen and the apps work great. He was using gaia app. I was considering buying a GPS but for 39$ I can get gaia pro. It has lots of features including weather. Not sure which way to go but for $39 I don't see where I can go wrong. $$ is the ight around my house.
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Re: Ye Old Cellphone GPS Thread

Postby Charina » 07 22, 2016 •  [Post 3]

I've been using a phone as primary GPS for 4+ years now. I keep an old dedicated gps in the pack, and set it to camp, but its only an emergency backup. My phone takes pics, fits micro sd to view trail cam pics, acts as GPS, I keep a log of observations I type up in Evernote, can text or call if there is signal, has touch screen interface with EXCELLENT resolution, etc, etc, etc. All things a GPS can't do. The only issue now is that I upgraded to a Galaxy s7, and the battery is not replaceable for me to put in a 7200mha in it like I did before. So I'll carry a 3200mah battery/charger. But the thing is dang near waterproof, so that's a huge plus.

I use Maverick (andriod), and have played with Trimble. I prefer Maverick. Maverick is the only app I've ever purchased. $4.99 Well worth it to me.

You don't need cell signal for a phone to be a gps. What you do need is to select an app to be able to download maps or sat images ahead of time and cache for offline use. Maverick fits that bill. Although it is one thing that could be improved upon. There is a "downloader" where you can select an area to download map tiles at selected zoom levels, but if you want all the level 18 and 19 zoom tiles for a large area, it can become tedious to download them all.

I suppose one con that I wish I could overcome is the ability to show property boundaries. I have to trace them in GE, transfer it as a track, and then select the track to show it. If one owned a digital boundaries map (or used the publicly available ARCgis files), and was smart enough to format it correctly, it could be added to Maverick. But there is, as of now, no really easy (e.g. not tech savvy) way to do it aside from waypoints or making a track. I don't hunt near private very often, so creating a couple tracks in GE to upload is no big deal to me.

All my waypoints are pretty easy to share between GE and Maverick. Simple file transfer I can do via email between computer and phone. Since I have thousands of key locations for hunting an fishing, backing it up to GE (and reverse) is critical to me.

Super easy yet super functional to use. So useful there is no reason for me to considering changing.
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Re: Ye Old Cellphone GPS Thread

Postby lamrith » 07 22, 2016 •  [Post 4]

Charina wrote:I've been using a phone as primary GPS for 4+ years now. I keep an old dedicated gps in the pack, and set it to camp, but its only an emergency backup. My phone takes pics, fits micro sd to view trail cam pics, acts as GPS, I keep a log of observations I type up in Evernote, can text or call if there is signal, has touch screen interface with EXCELLENT resolution, etc, etc, etc. All things a GPS can't do. The only issue now is that I upgraded to a Galaxy s7, and the battery is not replaceable for me to put in a 7200mha in it like I did before. So I'll carry a 3200mah battery/charger. But the thing is dang near waterproof, so that's a huge plus.

I use Maverick (andriod), and have played with Trimble. I prefer Maverick. Maverick is the only app I've ever purchased. $4.99 Well worth it to me.

You don't need cell signal for a phone to be a gps. What you do need is to select an app to be able to download maps or sat images ahead of time and cache for offline use. Maverick fits that bill. Although it is one thing that could be improved upon. There is a "downloader" where you can select an area to download map tiles at selected zoom levels, but if you want all the level 18 and 19 zoom tiles for a large area, it can become tedious to download them all.

I suppose one con that I wish I could overcome is the ability to show property boundaries. I have to trace them in GE, transfer it as a track, and then select the track to show it. If one owned a digital boundaries map (or used the publicly available ARCgis files), and was smart enough to format it correctly, it could be added to Maverick. But there is, as of now, no really easy (e.g. not tech savvy) way to do it aside from waypoints or making a track. I don't hunt near private very often, so creating a couple tracks in GE to upload is no big deal to me.

All my waypoints are pretty easy to share between GE and Maverick. Simple file transfer I can do via email between computer and phone. Since I have thousands of key locations for hunting an fishing, backing it up to GE (and reverse) is critical to me.

Super easy yet super functional to use. So useful there is no reason for me to considering changing.

I will have to check out Maverick, sounds nice. Would be really nice to find something that will integrate with Caltopo.

Great point about the battery. What phone did you have a 7200MaH in? I have a S5Active, one reason was the battery as well as additional things like Baro (long range shooting) and compass. I have considered moving to newer model active but am resistant to lose the replacable battery as that is often what dies on phones. Being able to swap out to a fresh one, or just replace it is very handy. I have seen larger (5400MaH?) batteries for the S5A but also seen some reviews that said they last less than a factory 2800MaH one.. :o

For longevity in the woods folks can look at things like this:
https://www.amazon.com/Aspect-Solar-Asp ... B00U790J7S

I bought the original version with only a 8100MaH pack and it works great. Charges FAST too. Phantom can atest that it took my S5active from 30% to 100% in short order sitting at camp one evening last weekend. Just leave the battery pack and panel at camp in the sun during the day and you are golden. You can also charge it from a generator or using a Miniusb car charger.. The entire thing is small enough you could even put in your day pack to have long term power in emergencies..
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Re: Ye Old Cellphone GPS Thread

Postby Charina » 07 22, 2016 •  [Post 5]

I got after market 7200mha for both my S2 and S3. Sucks that S7 is all sealed up. But then again, I can drop it in a stream and be just fine if i can find it.

Ah yes, i have my ballistics app on the phone as well. Don't use it much, but I do setup an image of my load's ballistics, windage basics, etc on one of the screens. Can't do that on a gps!
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Re: Ye Old Cellphone GPS Thread

Postby lamrith » 07 22, 2016 •  [Post 6]

Charina wrote:I got after market 7200mha for both my S2 and S3. Sucks that S7 is all sealed up. But then again, I can drop it in a stream and be just fine if i can find it.

Ah yes, i have my ballistics app on the phone as well. Don't use it much, but I do setup an image of my load's ballistics, windage basics, etc on one of the screens. Can't do that on a gps!


Yeah my S5Active is all sealed too, had it out in our wonderfull 40* rainy weather last year with no issues. Well that is not true, issue was cold wet hands not able to activate the touch screen! :lol:

Yeah I love Strelok on my phone you just cannot beat it, there is a free version and paid. Paid opens up a ton of scope options so you can actually see hold over thru your Ret. Enter your load data and it will then compute for your altitude, shot angle, baro, etc..
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Re: Ye Old Cellphone GPS Thread

Postby Brendan » 07 22, 2016 •  [Post 7]

Big fan of Gaia. But, I also love my Garmin Montana 650 and my Garmin Epix. All for different reasons.

Using Gaia, I can take all my Garmin waypoints, load them into Google Earth. Add / modify waypoints and tracks however I see fit, and then upload them into Gaia. I download satellite and topo maps in advance. So in the field, I can easily switch back and forth between topo and high quality satellite which makes in the field scouting much easier. I feel that the maps and the screen/visibility are much better using my phone than my Garmin.

Last year I carried a Garmin Montana 650 and my phone with Gaia. Whenever I just wanted to slog along in the dark to make sure I was on course through the timber, I used the garmin. Better battery life and more durable than my phone. Even with a lifeproof case. Any time that I wanted to really reference off of a map, really examine maps, I used my phone and Gaia as the "visibility" and detail is better.

Phone stays on airplane mode and uses limited power.

Cost is very far in favor of Gaia as you already have a phone. It works on Android and Apple iOS.

My Garmin is more rugged and takes AA Lithium Batteries. The battery life on my Garmin is better.

To be honest, i wouldn't be surprised if I carry both again this year. Haven't really decided yet.
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Re: Ye Old Cellphone GPS Thread

Postby CampCreek » 07 23, 2016 •  [Post 8]

Great thread, I have been looking into this just this week myself. Kinda tech challenged on some of this but looking to learn. Are there certain brands of backup battery charges you guys recommend?
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Re: Ye Old Cellphone GPS Thread

Postby jtaustin » 07 23, 2016 •  [Post 9]

Everyone in our party carries a Garmin Rino. No cell service. We can all see and talk to each other anytime. The peace of mind knowing where and how my partners are doing is priceless. Weather updates are also nice. I carry an extra long life battery so can go 3 days before charging. I would like to find a solar charger that handles my batteries.
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Re: Ye Old Cellphone GPS Thread

Postby lamrith » 07 24, 2016 •  [Post 10]

jtaustin wrote:Everyone in our party carries a Garmin Rino. No cell service. We can all see and talk to each other anytime. The peace of mind knowing where and how my partners are doing is priceless. Weather updates are also nice. I carry an extra long life battery so can go 3 days before charging. I would like to find a solar charger that handles my batteries.

If they can charge off usb, check out the one I linked above, I have been pretty happy with it so far.
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Re: Ye Old Cellphone GPS Thread

Postby Tigger » 07 25, 2016 •  [Post 11]

I have OnXmaps and they have so many layers that it is mind boggling. Public/private land is on their base layer so it is always on (I think...I am not an expert at it yet). It even gives you property owners names. You can easily switch between aerial or topo maps. Looking forward to using it more, but so far, it rocks. I like it much better than the Trimble hunt I used last year. I also have a Garmin and that is a backup only now.
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Re: Ye Old Cellphone GPS Thread

Postby lamrith » 08 10, 2016 •  [Post 12]

Just a follow up post and question.

I will say I used trimble (free version) a bit last year and on both scouting trips this year. I REALLY like the way it is setup and works. Easy to figure out and start/stop tracks, log different days, mark spots, even ad pictures to a location on map. However I just went to their sight to look at buying it and it is no longer available/supported? Anyone know WTH happened, or is going on? Did they sell out or merge? Really bummed such a great program is going to be no longer.

Trying to migrate to Avenza now. I really like that I can Download USGS Topo maps for free and import them into it. However the interface does not seem that great. I plan to try Gaia really soon.
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Re: Ye Old Cellphone GPS Thread

Postby cohunter14 » 08 10, 2016 •  [Post 13]

I ran into the same problem Larry. From everything I gathered, they were simply stopping the service. I recently downloaded the free version of 'Topo Maps' and it has been okay. The best thing about it is you can upload your trips into google earth, which I thought was pretty cool.
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Re: Ye Old Cellphone GPS Thread

Postby bald9eagle » 08 13, 2016 •  [Post 14]

I'm using Backcountry Navigator Pro. So far I like it. It is higher rated than Maverick
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Re: Ye Old Cellphone GPS Thread

Postby JimKirk » 08 14, 2016 •  [Post 15]

I was using trimble. they went out of the app business. Use onx maps now but back it up with garmin. I like the big screen on my iphone when I use it for maps. I would have to buy a garmin montana to get the equivalent screen size to see the maps. I've had good luck with the phone app on my iphone as far a gps fucntions but even using airplane mode I have to carry a battery pack that weighs more than my gps to keep the phone going.
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Re: Ye Old Cellphone GPS Thread

Postby lamrith » 09 08, 2016 •  [Post 16]

Quick revival here as I am prepping ot head out for hunt. I did some track recordings and location marking in GPS Maps. Some of it was off the one map PDF I had loaded. Now that I have the rest of the area maps loaded none of my marks are working for them, even though I can open the original map and see the program has the points marked?

Does GPS Map not link the maps together so if I cross from one map to another it will jump over? or am I missing something? Neat program, but if it cannot link the maps and share data between them it loses much of it's usability..? Anyone have any ideas?
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Re: Ye Old Cellphone GPS Thread

Postby Charina » 01 30, 2017 •  [Post 17]

Circling back to update on Maverick. It does not work with Android v6.0.1, and apparently the developers are no longer updating the app. It won't run on my S7 after it upgraded the OS. Not sure if I'm going to buy an older phone running previous version, or settle for one of the other apps.

I'm not impressed so far with the dozen + I've tried. Gaia is good for topo, but I want detailed offline satellite imagery as well. And complex waypoint management is severely lacking. Unhappy I spent that much just to be asked for a subscription to access half-way decent sat images and clunky data management. Should have uninstalled and gotten a refund asap. Tested it out too long to get a refund now. Too expenses for what it offers.

USA Topo Maps is showing promise, but a few quirks. Not sure I'll spend the $11 to give the pro verson and try out the functionality I haven't tested yet. Probably best of alternates I've tried so far.

OnxMaps Hunt has great options for maps and layers - if you are on the network. Seems like it would fit my sat image needs if I had signal in elk country, or if I needed property maps. I have no need for property maps. And I never have signal to internet. Perhaps I'm missing it, or have to access an online account to upload and organize waypoints, but from what I see, waypoint management is unacceptably dysfunctional. The app is all about maps, and waypoints seem to be an afterthought.

Backcountry Navigator also stinks on waypoint management. The basis of the app seems to be trip-management. So, uploading my fishing locations folders for various lakes, and various folders for hunting areas seems impossible. I don't want a single list of thousands of waypoints. Perhaps I'm missing it. Image map options are lacking. I am curious to check out one of the options, but it's only for pro, and I see no option to preview. $12 to get pro isn't worth it knowing the waypoint management is so weak.

Any other good options out there? I haven't found anything half as functional (for me) as Maverick. Each has some strengths and probably great in their realm. But not the way I use a phone/gps while elk hunting.
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Re: Ye Old Cellphone GPS Thread

Postby N2mywake » 01 30, 2017 •  [Post 18]

following....

I will add if you need a power pack I highly recommend the Anker PowerCore 20100 . (from the amazon ad *Weighs as little as a can of soup (12.5 oz) yet charges the iPhone 7 almost seven times, the Galaxy S6 five times or the iPad mini 4 twice).

I use mine all the time. thinking about getting a 2nd one and an anker solar charger if I decide to try to film on this next hunt.
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Re: Ye Old Cellphone GPS Thread

Postby Tigger » 01 30, 2017 •  [Post 19]

OnXMaps.... yes, you can download for offline use. It is clunky, but it is doable.

I will have to look into Maverick. Gaia is also on my list to look at. I typically use topos, so the satellite imagery isn't critical for me.
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Re: Ye Old Cellphone GPS Thread

Postby Charina » 01 30, 2017 •  [Post 20]

My issue with OnX and offline maps is solely related to the unavailability of google earth imagery. Google only allows online use. No caching allowed. So, the only good sat image offering I saw on OnX can only be used while online.

If you get Gaia, just be sure to give it the full workover quickly. You can uninstall and get a refund, but not if you keep it for a while (not sure how long - 24 hours?) Spendy for an app that won't do my laundry for me. But then again, I'm a cheapskate.

With Maverick, just keep in mind there is no support for it any longer. And it won't work on most recent android release (at least not on the Galaxy S7). Again, can probably figure that out quickly and uninstall for a refund ($5). I have decided to order a working motherboard for my old Galaxy S3 laying around, so I'm going to use that as my camera and GPS with Maverick. $18 fix

I also see that on ebay good quality cell phones (older) with bad esn's can be picked up for less than $40 to run as a dedicated gps. Almost went that route, but I'll repair my S3 for $18 first, since I have spare extra large capacity batteries for it. But that may be my option in the future when (if) I break the S3. Maverick isn't the greatest thing around, and it does leave some to be desired. Guess I'm just too used to it to let go and make the full move to another app (despite trying).
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Re: Ye Old Cellphone GPS Thread

Postby Brendan » 01 31, 2017 •  [Post 21]

Charina wrote:Gaia is good for topo, but I want detailed offline satellite imagery as well.


You can download detailed sat imagery for offline use within Gaia. Just have to make sure you take care of it before you head into the field.

I manage all of my Waypoints in Garmin Basecamp, do my scouting with Google Earth where I can switch between Topo and Satellite, mark waypoints, mark trails, areas, etc. When my online scouting is done, everything gets organized in Basecamp again, and then loaded into Gaia for the hunt. When I get home - all new waypoints get pulled out of Gaia and organized back in Basecamp on my PC.

When I go into the field, I make sure I only have the waypoints I need for the areas I'm hunting. I do the same if I carry my Garmin Montana 650, and will also load waypoints onto my Garmin watch as a backup, but Gaia has been my primary use over the last two years.
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Re: Ye Old Cellphone GPS Thread

Postby Charina » 01 31, 2017 •  [Post 22]

Brendan wrote:You can download detailed sat imagery for offline use within Gaia.


I guess it depends on what one's personal definition of "detailed" is. I don't consider MapQuest Satellite or USGS Aerial as high resolution, or detailed enough for the way I use it. No where near ESRI, Google (not available for caching [legally]), or Microsoft. Perhaps MapBox Aerial under the Pro option is better, but my perusing it didn't impress. And I am not going to be paying $40 a year (on top of the overpriced app) to access a set of maps that are not as good as what is freely available. Perhaps I'm missing other offerings that match ESRI or Microsoft? Honestly, I'd rather go through the work of downloading a custom set of tiles for use in other apps before using Gaia. I find better waypoint management in others that don't have the map offerings, but do allow custom map options. I tried Gaia for one hunt, and a couple fishing trips. It works. Definitely works. Either I'm persnickety or spoiled, but it's not the app for me. Wanted it to be, gave it a real try, but I don't like it.
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Ye Old Cellphone GPS Thread

Postby Brendan » 01 31, 2017 •  [Post 23]

You're definitely right - Google Imagery is a better resolution. If you go to max zoom on both GE and Gaia, Google allows you to ID things like trails worn into the ground better.

So, with that said, how are you actually using it in the field? From a practical perspective, I use it to get a general lay of the land, find openings, compare to topo maps, and haven't felt the decreased resolution to be a hindrance.

With that said - if you find a better option, I'm all ears :D

Some examples of the same spot... (also - let me know if you have issues with the two images)

Gaia first, GE second..... max Zoom of the downed tree I camped next to.... Both images snapped from my phone.

Image

Image
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Re: Ye Old Cellphone GPS Thread

Postby N2mywake » 01 31, 2017 •  [Post 24]

If I could get someone to custom export some aerials could I import them into the gaia pro version? I might know a few GIS folks... ;)
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Re: Ye Old Cellphone GPS Thread

Postby N2mywake » 02 01, 2017 •  [Post 25]

anyone try the huntstand app?
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Re: Ye Old Cellphone GPS Thread

Postby olympushunt » 02 01, 2017 •  [Post 26]

I am a true believer that at this date and time smartphones simply have inferior GPS capabilities to a dedicated GPS device. That being said.....I am open (and hopeful at some point) to be proven wrong. I have tried all the apps on my Samsung Galaxy S7 (a very new smartphone) I could get my hands on. From freebies to apps I had to pay for. I am not trying to start any arguments but rather save some poor person from relying on their dang phone and potentially getting into a life threatening scenario when if they had just packed a dedicated GPS unit they would not have been in that situation in the first place. Think about what you are claiming your life isn't worth....the extra few dollars (in the grand scheme of our hunting costs) and the few extra ounces of a dedicated device?????? But I am also a hard core believer that everyone should carry a map and compass.....and more importantly know how to USE said map and compass. It sounds silly but many out there don't know how to use it. Sure they know the red thingy points north but that's about it. Lots of us on here do know how to, especially those old goats who came out before GPS. Not mentioning any names Swede. lol. I tried to learn a ton about mapping, building maps, GPS, DGPS, surveying, pitfalls of a compass and anything I could get my hands on when I got my geology degree back in the early 90s. I got my first GPS in the early 90s, a Magellan, and was fascinated by it. Anyhow, I realize (as was stated earlier) that technology can change in just one year a ton so I may not be up on every single smartphone out there but from my experience they just do NOT perform up to my standards for leaving my Garmin at home. In most situations where I intimately know the terrain I am and am out for a day or two....my phone is a fine. I am admittedly impatient and don't like waiting for it to acquire position and pull up maps but so many of my hunting locations are close enough to towers it does the job adequately. If I am going to go on 5 day plus trip in the nasties...my phone isn't going with me. I just don't trust it enough....yet. Maybe someday. But the smartphones I know about don't have the chips in them the dedicated units have....mostly because of a power drain issue. I read where a guy made the analogy of a smartphone and a leatherman. It thing that is spot on. A leatherman is a fantastic device....it can function as a knife, screwdriver, file, pliers, for cracking open a cold one, etc. But if you need a real screwdriver to get a job done and you have access to a real screwdriver...let's get the job done. I also read this on another website for preppers, survivalists, paranoid peeps...lol. The last part had me laughing as I am not the conspiracy theorist that a lot of preppers are but it did make me chuckle a little.

1. A cellphone design is always a compromise to fit lots of electronics, batteries and antennas all together to make them work. Dedicated GPS trekker units like Garmin have GPS purpose built antennas, no compromises in antenna design necessary. And frankly in a grid down scenario, portable and stockable double A batteries are preferable to internal lithium ion cellphone batteries.

2. "But my cellphone locks on to a GPS signal faster than my Garmin!" - you are ignorant. Cellphones use cell tower data AND GPS to get your location. Outside cellphone reception areas, a well designed dedicated GPS handheld may work while the cellphone GPS hardware may fail to receive a signal. In a crisis, under heavy use, the cell towers may be out of service. A lot of cell navigation software fails without cell tower data functionality. GPS units store maps and work without any such dependency (some smartphone navigation software and phones work without cell towers, but many of them DO NOT). The US government and military rely on GPS, it is more likely to remain in service during a crisis. No guarantees of course in the age of cyber warfare...so keep that map and compass handy.

3. Cellphones have NSA backdoors, can be turned on to track you and listen to your words even when you think the phone is off, have NFC stuff that can give info even when the battery is removed from your cellphone! Dedicated GPS units can only receive GPS radio signals and typically have no function to transmit voice or data (I think there are walkie talkie gps units that can talk and beam coordinates to another user, but even that is very limited in range compared to a cellphone and the very far reaching cellphone grid). If you carry around a cellphone everywhere you go, you have willingly agreed to be tracked and monitored by the government without ever being internally microchipped like your dog Rover. You are being monitored the same way as the sex offender who is forced to wear an ankle monitor everywhere he goes. And you did it willingly like a true sheeple!


Anyway.....please prove me wrong and take me out into the nasty, tall and uncut timber and show me your phone will acquire satellites, and pull maps reliably as good as my garmin. I probably still will pack my garmin as I like backup stuff and tend to pack more crap than necessary. :)
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Re: Ye Old Cellphone GPS Thread

Postby >>>---WW----> » 02 01, 2017 •  [Post 27]

OK, here is my beef! I know my smart phone is a heck of a lot smarter than I am. However, smart phones don't hold a charge very well at all. Unless you have a way to keep it charged up it is just dead weight when that battery craps out on you. My GPS will last a long time (if) I use it right. If I leave it on all the time, not so well either.

Either way, get yourself a GOOD compass and a GOOD map and learn how to use both. I fear this is becoming a lost art. You don't have to use it if you so choose. But when all else fails, It is good to have. Just saying!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: Ye Old Cellphone GPS Thread

Postby Deanmac » 02 01, 2017 •  [Post 28]

>>>---WW----> wrote:, get yourself a GOOD compass and a GOOD map and learn how to use both.!!


My live will not depend on a GPS. I used The Gaia App last year and was very pleased, but still had my map and compass. I also have a portable charger pack that will keep my phoned charged for over a week.
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Re: Ye Old Cellphone GPS Thread

Postby Charina » 02 01, 2017 •  [Post 29]

olympushunt wrote:Anyway.....please prove me wrong

I seriously wonder if when maps first became popular, if old-timers decried how unreliable they were, and how foolish it was to use them because any frontiersman worth settling the area didn't want to loose their naturally honed skills of navigation. I still remember the early reluctance of accepting gps devices back when a Garmin gecko was on par with the latest tech. Who on earth would trust their life to such a device that relies on batteries, and can malfunction!

Whether a dedicated gps, or cell, the obvious choice is always to have a backup, and a brain. Don't go beyond your ability to find your way out if all navigation goes to hell.

Have you ever tried your S7 in the woods away from cell signal? I used my S7 in areas far far far from any signal. GPS lock almost instantly. Anywhere. I used to use my S3 in an area 60 miles from the nearest cell signal. Flawless, and EXACT repeatability (tested it frequently to see how close it reproduced results).

It was the 2011 season when I began keeping my gps in my pack as a backup. My 2011 Motorolla Droid 3 received gps signal deep in canyons and under forest canopy where my Magellan could not get a lock. It was faster and more accurate everywhere my older Garmin and my more recent Magellan could get a signal. IMO, cell phone gps capabilities caught up to dedicated gps devices years ago. Why was it that a 2005 GPS was adequate to rely on in the woods with a map backup, but a S7 that has a GPS 10 times as advanced as that old gps isn't adequate with a map backup?

Cell phones malfunction. GPS's malfunction. Maps get wet or blow away in the wind. All of them can be forgotten and left in the truck, or the last place you stopped (wherever the hell that is!) Actually, as habitual as I am with my cell phone, it's far less likely I'll leave it behind in the truck or at a lunch stop. But the point is never go deeper than common sense and navigation skills can't get you out of.
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Re: Ye Old Cellphone GPS Thread

Postby olympushunt » 02 01, 2017 •  [Post 30]

Charina wrote:
olympushunt wrote:Anyway.....please prove me wrong

I seriously wonder if when maps first became popular, if old-timers decried how unreliable they were, and how foolish it was to use them because any frontiersman worth settling the area didn't want to loose their naturally honed skills of navigation. I still remember the early reluctance of accepting gps devices back when a Garmin gecko was on par with the latest tech. Who on earth would trust their life to such a device that relies on batteries, and can malfunction!


Have you ever tried your S7 in the woods away from cell signal? I used my S7 in areas far far far from any signal. GPS lock almost instantly. Anywhere. I used to use my S3 in an area 60 miles from the nearest cell signal. Flawless, and EXACT repeatability (tested it frequently to see how close it reproduced results).


I'm sure this has happened. And maps are only as accurate as the dingaling that made them. lol I've made a few that the accuracy is suspect I'm sure. :oops:

I've tried my HTC, S3, S6, S7, tablets and buddies Iphones in and out of airplane mode (near and far from cell towers) and have never come close to beating my Garmin 650. Sometimes I will tire of waiting for it to pick up and lock me in and turn it off. I don't think as of now (or so I've read) they make smartphones with the GPS chip they put in dedicated devices. Just like the very expensive survey equipment that can differentiate one side of your finger from the other. It makes sense as they are a major battery drain they simply can't do this with the current technology. I totally might be wrong...it just is what I have noticed and in no way want to discredit your findings. I find them encouraging that maybe I'm not doing something correct or holding my tongue in the correct satellite alignment. I will have to play with it some more. I agree 110% that a backup is a must and I'm glad people do that. I just cringe at hearing folks saying they don't bother taking a GPS unit (or map and compass if they are proficient with them) with them anymore as phones have made them obsolete or that funds dictate the reliance on the smartphone. To each their own for sure.
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Re: Ye Old Cellphone GPS Thread

Postby Charina » 02 01, 2017 •  [Post 31]

I can't recall once ever taking more than 2 seconds to get a location within 30 yards, or 7-8 seconds to be refined down to less than 10 yards. I'm sure dedicated GPS tech has exponentially improved, like most handheld tech (they HAD to with competition from phones), but the question still remains - why is a phone far more advanced than a 2005 gps not ok, but in 2005, that gps was perfectly acceptable?
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Re: Ye Old Cellphone GPS Thread

Postby Charina » 02 01, 2017 •  [Post 32]

N2mywake wrote:anyone try the huntstand app?

Have now. I recall it being discussed here in an older thread - the sharing with buddies was a touted feature back then. If only I didn't hunt solo. Or was within 10 miles of cell signal in elk territory to actually share location. haha

It's a good app with some unique and really neat functionality. But is it not an elk hunting app. Where is the altitude measurements on my fix or a waypoint? Lat and Long only??? Where is a topo map? Seriously?? That terrain map is useless in elk country. Need a topo to determine best routes up some slopes, or if what is beyond that rise is doable. What about navigation? No targeting with distance to target and time est to target? This is clearly developed by, and intended for, flatlanders working smaller plots of land. Probably a really good app for the person that wants to get all techy and geeked out with hunt stats to analyze their sightings and harvests.

Cool app though. Good sat imagery. Lots of functionality, even though there isn't much customization. Just not tailored to hunting in the mountains though.

Edit: I don't find a download functionality. I confirmed it does cache for offline use those tiles you have viewed, but I don't see how to download in bulk. That was my biggest beef with Maverick until they added a map downloader a couple years back. Units out west can be pretty big. Not like the two min it takes to view all of a section of private whitetail property.
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Re: Ye Old Cellphone GPS Thread

Postby Charina » 02 01, 2017 •  [Post 33]

Brendan wrote:So, with that said, how are you actually using it in the field? From a practical perspective, I use it to get a general lay of the land, find openings, compare to topo maps, and haven't felt the decreased resolution to be a hindrance.

I wouldn't frame it that decreased res is a hindrance. More that I can't get as much info from it that the last couple years has been helpful in putting me on elk more frequently.

I generally have a pretty good feel for the lay of the land from from my incessant GE reviews all winter (and summer days I'm stuck in the office but have a break) and a few scouting trips over the summer. So, I will switch over to topo, but not so often. Most frequently will switch over to topo when I am laying in bed at night thinking of somewhere else to explore nearby if a couple days in a row haven't panned out.

Where higher res shone for me last year was in identifying bedding areas. Bedding areas were scattered in tiny pockets across an area approx 1.5 X 3 miles. After a couple days I put together what particular vegetation setup made for a likely bedding area. Looking at satellite, I was able to identify and mark a dozen or so similar areas nearby, and plan out a route to stalk into each consecutively. I was within bow range 7 times that day, nocked the arrow 5 times, missed the one shot I got (dropaway rest tie-in had come loose and self-adjusted). But it was in large part because I could ID very specific bedding areas (100 ft by 50 ft) that I have a harder time picking out on lower res when I sit here looking at it on USGS Aerial. Mixed vegitation, and it is not clear enough on low res to rule out the many spots that just didn't have what the elk wanted.

The year before it was in a different unit, and the key was food sources I could id from satellites that I did not know about until I was in the field. No way to go back to GE and analyze based on what I figured out in the first day of hiking around - Unless I took an entire day to run into town to get wifi and then drive back. Ran into lots of elk that year (took a cow - couldn't find a spike in the spike-only area). More elk than I had run into the previous three years.

I have this habit of hunting a new unit ever second year or so. Always learning, never know the unit as I might if only hunted one area. So, I find eyes from the sky very helpful while figuring things out in the field.
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Re: Ye Old Cellphone GPS Thread

Postby Charina » 02 01, 2017 •  [Post 34]

N2mywake wrote:If I could get someone to custom export some aerials could I import them into the gaia pro version? I might know a few GIS folks... ;)

I see no way to select a custom map in Gaia. They have a lot of offerings, but choosing your own map isn't one of them like some other apps offer.
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Re: Ye Old Cellphone GPS Thread

Postby olympushunt » 02 01, 2017 •  [Post 35]

Charina wrote:I can't recall once ever taking more than 2 seconds to get a location within 30 yards, or 7-8 seconds to be refined down to less than 10 yards. I'm sure dedicated GPS tech has exponentially improved, like most handheld tech (they HAD to with competition from phones), but the question still remains - why is a phone far more advanced than a 2005 gps not ok, but in 2005, that gps was perfectly acceptable?


Charina, you clearly know your system and technology extremely well.....that and you carry a reliable back up. That's all I hope everyone else does. Everything including our shooting equipment we need to believe in it and know it like the back of our hand. I might just be old enough school that my smartphone aka hand held computer (and we all know how awesome computers can be at reliability lol) makes me nervous to rely so heavily on it in foreign turf. My phone can do everything from start my truck, turn my home alarm on, pay my bills, make me a PB&J....ok maybe not that but it will someday! I love it but for me it is not more advanced than a 2005 GPS. That GPS is a simple signal receiver and does a fairly single goal directed task well. Sometimes simple is better. I may have gotten off track with this thread as to what new smartphone apps are the best for navigation but for what it's worth I am a Gaia fan myself. Like others have pointed out though it seems every app and every device has it's superior features. Maybe WT can sponsor a new app that takes all the features we like in one unit. We will call it Wapiti Talk Feature.....lol
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Re: Ye Old Cellphone GPS Thread

Postby Swede » 02 03, 2017 •  [Post 36]

I agree with Oly that a compass and map are at least a great backup and should be in every hunter's pack when you are not very familiar with your area even in the dark. Before GPS, a map and compass got me back to camp or the truck, even in heavy snow storms, many times. I really like my GPS, but there are times I want to refer to a map to check. If you think a map and compass can fail, why would anyone bet the farm on an electronic gadget?
Even in Bible times we read where people were navigators. Maps have been around for centuries and are still a useful tool. A map stored in a plastic bag is going to be there when you need it. As far as which electronic gadget you should use to navigate by, or depend on to find your way, I have no opinion. I personally prefer my Garmin. I don't want a telephone, tv, camera, computer, etc. etc. etc. all in one to be in the woods with me. It is just me. Do what you prefer, but I still believe a good map and compass should be in our pack when we are in unfamiliar country. If nothing else have it as a backup.
Funny Story:
I remember when Oly and I were out one night returning from our hunt. We were navigating back with my new GPS. The direction we were headed did not seem right to either of us, but we followed the gadget's advise anyway. We came to a break where the land started steeply downward. I was sure then the GPS was wrong then. Still, I conceded to Oly we should follow it a little ways more. Sure enough the land pitched back up again shortly, and we were back to the truck in no time.
If the truck had not showed up; my map would have been out of my pack soon.
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Re: Ye Old Cellphone GPS Thread

Postby Charina » 08 02, 2017 •  [Post 37]

I just found out that Maverick, the app I mentioned above as my (previously) preferred app, was updated this past Feb and now will operate on Android 7.0. However, I think I have found a better-for-me gps/waypoint management app.

I tried all that I could get my hands on. I think I had a dozen installed at one point this Spring. Purchased a couple to give them a quick test run on the fully functional version. Only one met my personal criteria for a functional cell phone gps app - Alpine Quest. It's $10 for the pro version with all the bells and whistles. I can fairly easily manage the thousands of waypoints I sync between the phone and GE. It's not ideal, in that there is no auto-sync, but it's not hard to export and import files via bluetooth or cable. It has Microsoft Hybrid imagery for offline caching (highest quality that can be legally cached for free). Downloading map tiles is rather easy, even it if does take quite a while for large areas (better than Maverick's downloader). And the options and functionality is quite extensive.

One of the cooler features that I have grown to like is the ability to download topographical map elevation contours to overlay on your base layer map. No more switching back and forth between displayed maps to see sat image, and then look at contours. See them both at the same time! The following has the contour layer set at 33% opacity.
zoom level 14 of 16.png
zoom level 14 of 16.png (855.28 KiB) Viewed 16371 times

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zoom level 16 of 16.png (873.5 KiB) Viewed 16371 times


And here is the opacity of the layer set to 100%.
zoom level 14 of 16 - 100opacity.png
zoom level 14 of 16 - 100opacity.png (846.34 KiB) Viewed 16371 times
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Re: Ye Old Cellphone GPS Thread

Postby scubohuntr » 08 02, 2017 •  [Post 38]

I'll have to try Alpine Quest- it looks impressive. Currently I use Avenza maps with USGS quads for mapping, and Spyglass for compass and orienteering. I know I'm not using either to anything like their full capabilities. Of course, they are both backups for primary systems: hardcopy USGS topographic maps, Brunton Pocket Transit compass, and Magellan Meridian GPS. I'm kind of old school, in that the real "wow" factor in the mobile apps is, "Gee, it's almost as good as an actual map!" I'll keep using the paper maps and magnetic compass, if for no other reason than to keep my skill set active. I learned to use maps and compasses as a geologist, surveyor, and pilot, but don't get to use them much at work any more.

That said, I do use the convenient mobile apps almost exclusively for scouting, then transfer waypoints, notations and such to the map and/or GPS, as well as the field notebook. That way all the data is in three completely separate systems. If my phone dies on a scouting trip I'm not out much. If it dies (or gets dropped) on a multi-day back country trip and it was my only navigational system, it's a serious problem.
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