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Early Season, Lightweight Jacket?

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Early Season, Lightweight Jacket?

Postby WapitiTalk1 » 07 31, 2017 •  [Post 1]

OK you clothing gear junkies/aficionados, what do you recommend for a lightweight jacket to wear over a base layer in the early mornings, sitting an elk perch/stand, that is just enough to keep the core temp warm? I have a good handful of vests and jackets but really, all are pretty warm and/or bulky when I take em off and stuff them in my pack. Thoughts?
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Re: Early Season, Lightweight Jacket?

Postby saddlesore » 07 31, 2017 •  [Post 2]

I have fleece , zippered hoody with pockets. Blaze orange.I put it on over my base layer and shirt.Since I ride in when it is dark and colder,I put my hunting coat over it. As the morning warms,I take the big coat off. If I need to move,I can strap the bigger coat on to my day pack. I like the fleece because it is warmer and some what water proof.I think I bought it at Cabelas

Here is photo of it in ML season a few years ago with a younger elk I shot.

DSCN0949.jpg
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Re: Early Season, Lightweight Jacket?

Postby saddlesore » 07 31, 2017 •  [Post 3]

Here is another,but with a wool shirt under it. Notice the heavier coat hanging in tree in the back ground.

DSCN0344.jpg
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BTW, neither elk was killed in a burn area. :lol:
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Re: Early Season, Lightweight Jacket?

Postby Lefty » 08 01, 2017 •  [Post 4]

Marino wool first, then one or two long sleeve poly/teck T-shirts with a pack on and moving slow that can be good down to 45 degrees. . Other wise another layer, maybe my Sika, hoody (it is an under, base layer too. )
I do have two outside shells, a Cabelas Instinct ( a bit noisy) and a Kuiu shell, in reality my lightweight jackets.
If it is a bit colder a Drake waterfowl pull-over my wife put in a full zipper.

I like to be warm and comfortable. I learned to stay warm working construction and trapping in Minnesota. I was unaware some are so foolish and under dress. Working construction in Washington( mostly guys from California) and being a scoutmaster. People forget you can stay warmer by layering up on the bottom. I worked with a fellow that wore a nice REI down jacket, and he couldnt stay warm, Its may take more than a jacket. He was wearing tennis shoe and jeans. I drove him to the Danner outlet in Portland one morning and bought him some Thinsulate'/ goretex Danners then to a farm store and bought him bibs.

I start out each morning with Marino wool bottoms, for two reasons. One I find it easier to control overheating walking in early. And if I do get stuck spending the night good "long johns" can literally be life-saving.

Dressing up on the bottom can give you a lot more upper-body movement, as when I worked construction or waterfowling.
Im going to give my sales pitch because of two Boy scout outings.This week is a planned camp in a cave. The cave temp is in the low 50's and feels great ,.. for and hour ( going to be in the upper 90's today). And I spoke yesterday to a fellow that really thought he was going to die last summer in the Wind river range when it was frosted shortly after sunset and dropped to 22 degrees. Leaving the valley with temperatures in the 90's and ending up where the temps will be cooler, people dont think they will be in the cold much longer than their basket ball game or the walk down the street.
I start out nearly every early morning hike or hunt with ultra light pants with marino wool underneath, It is part of my plan to stay warm

Last winter I hunted and killed a lot of late season geese over 1/2 of the geese I killed the outside temps were double digit below zero F.
My biggest worry was keeping my dog warm( she has a big down jacket :P )
I dress heavy on the bottom so I can move and shoot on top.
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Re: Early Season, Lightweight Jacket?

Postby Indian Summer » 08 01, 2017 •  [Post 5]

Well you can't really be overheating if you are sitting so I would HIGHLY recommend the Sitka Jetstream. If you really just want a lightweight shell.... as light as possible then go with their Ascent.
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Re: Early Season, Lightweight Jacket?

Postby Backyard » 08 02, 2017 •  [Post 6]

Indian Summer wrote:Well you can't really be overheating if you are sitting so I would HIGHLY recommend the Sitka Jetstream. If you really just want a lightweight shell.... as light as possible then go with their Ascent.


^^^^^ This exactly.^^^^^
Ya beat me to it I.S. :D
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Re: Early Season, Lightweight Jacket?

Postby Tigger » 08 02, 2017 •  [Post 7]

For once, ol' Joe is on the money! Ahhh, just kidding IS! Yep, Jetstream or Ascent. I have a Sitka 90% which I like as well. Jetstream = hood, 90% = no hood. I think the Jetstream is a whisker warmer. I love my hood; I hate my hood......

So I wear a base layer, a long sleeve Sitka tshirt and then a Jetstream vest. Over the top goes the 90% Jacket and I call that good. I also have a Kelvin vest that goes in my pack as it squishes down to almost nothing. that is it for September hunts.

For the record, I never thought I would be a Sitka fan. Then I bought one on clearance. Now I am a Sitka addict. Please don't tell my wife.
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Re: Early Season, Lightweight Jacket?

Postby Swede » 08 02, 2017 •  [Post 8]

For tree stand archery hunting I prefer a good vest. Bulky sleeves can catch the bow string and cause a miss. I have two vests. One is goose down and the other is not. I don't remember what the other vest is, but it is lighter weight and camo from Cabelas.
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Re: Early Season, Lightweight Jacket?

Postby Roosiebull » 08 02, 2017 •  [Post 9]

I will also say sitka ascent, very nice article of clothing. I don't have one any more, on the coast it never gets that cold during archery season, I wear base layer, peloton hoody from kuiu (the thick one) and their vest when it's chilly, that's always enough, even for my skinny ***
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Re: Early Season, Lightweight Jacket?

Postby WapitiTalk1 » 08 02, 2017 •  [Post 10]

Thanks for the discussion guys.. I think I've found something. I have a plethora of mid to heavier weight jackets (Sitka, River's West, Russell Outdoors, and Pnuma) but was looking for just that right depth of over my base layer in warm weather that will keep me from chilling in the before daylight ingress, the after dark regress, and... perhaps the time when I need to sit for a bit and not get chilled.. Was also looking for something that is minimalistic in nature and will pack down to nothing to stuff in the Exo pack. I saw a thread on this new piece of clothing on another site and have been researching it a bit. I think this may just serve the purpose I'm looking for... RJ

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Re: Early Season, Lightweight Jacket?

Postby Brendan » 08 03, 2017 •  [Post 11]

I really like the Kuiu Kenai. Comes in hooded, or no hood, depending on preference. 14 ounces. Has big pit zips so you can cool down easily if you don't want to take it off. Two big chest pockets. Synthetic insulation. Quiet exterior that makes it good for bowhunting. And, it holds some DWR after washing.

This is what I pack along with my rain shell every day I hunt Elk.

http://www.kuiu.com/hunting-jackets-ves ... 50013.html
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Re: Early Season, Lightweight Jacket?

Postby Brendan » 08 03, 2017 •  [Post 12]

RJ - here's another review on the Sitka Core LW Hoody:

http://www.rokslide.com/gear/clothing/374-sitka-dave-c

I have heard good things about the fanatic hoody, but haven't used it, same with the Kelvin Active Jacket:

https://www.sitkagear.com/products/soli ... atic-hoody

https://www.sitkagear.com/products/big- ... ive-jacket
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Re: Early Season, Lightweight Jacket?

Postby Swede » 08 03, 2017 •  [Post 13]

For the life of me I have no explanation why people would buy Sitka or other very pricy clothing to sit in a tree stand in September. It doesn't matter if it is 4 oz. lighter than the Cabela's equivalent. Who cares if it is trendy? Who cares that the Cabelas vest does not wick away perspiration very well. You will be alone in your tree stand. If you get too warm, take it off. That Sitka stuff would make sense to me if I was climbing Mt Everest or hunting sheep in the Canadian Rockies, but I am climbing 20 feet into a tree stand. There I will sit all day.
I see that Sitka has outer wear at nearly $800 a piece. Cabelas will keep you warm enough for under $100 for a good vest. I bought Oly and me a Cabelas vest over 25 years ago. I don't know about Oly's, but mine is as good as the day it arrived in the mail. It will be on me in the tree stand again this year. If it gets real cold, I have a goose down vest. It too costs a lot less than any Sitka equivalent.
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Re: Early Season, Lightweight Jacket?

Postby Backyard » 08 03, 2017 •  [Post 14]

Swede, I agree! I don't wear a stitch of Sitka gear when I tree stand hunt either. I'd freeze my arse off. But when I'm moving most of the day as I am elk hunting, it's all I wear.
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Re: Early Season, Lightweight Jacket?

Postby >>>---WW----> » 08 03, 2017 •  [Post 15]

Swede wrote:For the life of me I have no explanation why people would buy Sitka or other very pricy clothing to sit in a tree stand in September. It doesn't matter if it is 4 oz. lighter than the Cabela's equivalent. Who cares if it is trendy? Who cares that the Cabelas vest does not wick away perspiration very well. You will be alone in your tree stand. If you get too warm, take it off. That Sitka stuff would make sense to me if I was climbing Mt Everest or hunting sheep in the Canadian Rockies, but I am climbing 20 feet into a tree stand. There I will sit all day.
I see that Sitka has outer wear at nearly $800 a piece. Cabelas will keep you warm enough for under $100 for a good vest. I bought Oly and me a Cabelas vest over 25 years ago. I don't know about Oly's, but mine is as good as the day it arrived in the mail. It will be on me in the tree stand again this year. If it gets real cold, I have a goose down vest. It too costs a lot less than any Sitka equivalent.
A big AMEN to that.
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Re: Early Season, Lightweight Jacket?

Postby Brendan » 08 03, 2017 •  [Post 16]

Very true you don't need good gear to sit in a tree stand in September. But my Sitka whitetail gear for later in the season tree stand sits is by far and away one of the best hunting gear investments I've ever made. I've owned and used Scentlok, Cabelas, Filson, LL Bean, Mossy Oak, you name it - and I have no desire to go back.

Same thing for active elk hunting, covering miles after miles in a day. Some of the high performance fabrics and gear from Sitka, First Lite, Kuiu are MUCH better than most of the stuff I've owned. I can stay cool, dry out quickly, it's light and comfortable, and wear the same gear for 10-12 days straight without issue.

Also - $800 A piece? What piece of gear is that? I paid $300-$400 for my most expensive piece of Sitka gear (Fanatic Jacket), and have plenty of pieces under $100 and in the $100-$200 range.
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Re: Early Season, Lightweight Jacket?

Postby Swede » 08 03, 2017 •  [Post 17]

Backyard, to me that makes a lot of sense, but I see no reason to be colder in older established fabrics than in some new manmade fabric. I have both and can be cold in my tree stand in the new fabrics. They all have limits. I bought some and really got fooled when it comes to the new fabrics keeping me warm. From experience I can say you need to disbelieve the advertisements that say this or that is good down to xxx temperature in a tree stand. Some of the old fabrics were admittedly heavier, but they can be as warm. I will give it to you on the new fabrics doing better on wicking away perspiration, drying quicker and minimizing scent. Maybe you have a case when it comes to hiking the mountains in lightweight clothes that you want to get dry in a hurry after a rain. Of coarse hunters did ok in the 1950s too. They did not know how handicapped they were, so they just went out hunting with what was available at the time.
To make an analogy if someone says they need a good reliable vehicle to get groceries, take a drive to the coast and go visit friends, I might recommend a good SUV. It makes no difference based on their criterion that the SUV can not run 10s through the 1/4 mile. That said I think we are willing to pay excessively for the new super fabrics when the clothes we have had for years are more than adequate in all but the rarest situations. We have become equipment junkies.
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Re: Early Season, Lightweight Jacket?

Postby Swede » 08 03, 2017 •  [Post 18]

Brendan wrote:Also - $800 A piece? What piece of gear is that?


Ok, I forgot the top price or maybe it has changed, but $699 for their top end parka will not give you a lot of change. That piece is on their web page today. Of coarse a guy looks real good in a $699 hunting jacket.
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Re: Early Season, Lightweight Jacket?

Postby Brendan » 08 03, 2017 •  [Post 19]

How did a thread about an early season lightweight jacket turn into you looking for one of the most expensive (and best) pieces of cold weather expedition gear on the market to complain about :lol:

No, you don't need the best gear, yes you can pay for stuff you'll never use. But if you use it like intended, the gear from Sitka, First Lite, Kuiu, etc are hands down better than what was available 20 years ago - and it is not only for "extreme circumstances". Just up to you if it's worth it to spend the coin...
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Re: Early Season, Lightweight Jacket?

Postby Indian Summer » 08 03, 2017 •  [Post 20]

Don't knock it til you try it Swede. I absolutely guarantee that you would love the flexibility of Sitka gear. It will make drawing your bow in any position easier and quieter. Key word guarantee and as a former outfitter I rarely use that word!
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Re: Early Season, Lightweight Jacket?

Postby Swede » 08 03, 2017 •  [Post 21]

Brendan wrote: But if you use it like intended, the gear from Sitka, First Lite, Kuiu, etc are hands down better than what was available 20 years ago - and it is not only for "extreme circumstances". Just up to you if it's worth it to spend the coin...


I used a high dollar piece to illustrate a point. The highest dollar stuff is not going to keep you any warmer or drier than other good articles of clothing costing much less, so how is it better? Everyone agrees it is not needed for a tree stand hunt in September? You say that stuff is not just for extremes, (does that include September tree stand hunts?) but object to my comparison to less expensive gear. Hummm. The price is extreme. They want about $100 for an ICU orange vest with a couple of pockets.
I admit I do not like coarse wood underwear, so I have gone to the lighter more expensive alternatives. That said it is definitely no warmer than the wool that has been on the market for probably centuries, and maybe millennia.
I digress here. When I was logging at age 21 an older fellow on the job told me to get black wool underwear. He said, "I don't care how cold and wet you are, when you are wearing black wool underwear, you are always warm and dry." Maybe wool is the real super fabric. :D

Like I said above, I have some of the high end stuff I wear in my tree stand. I got it from REI. It is good, and I am not knocking it. I prefer the flexibility of having more clothing available instead of my whole budget wrapped up in a few extremely expensive pieces that are not doing any more for me than pieces costing 1/4-1/2 as much. I understand it guys. If I poured the kind of money into a jacket for a September hunt you advocate, I would have to practice a lot at explaining and justifying it too.
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Re: Early Season, Lightweight Jacket?

Postby Brendan » 08 03, 2017 •  [Post 22]

Swede wrote:The highest dollar stuff is not going to keep you any warmer or drier than other good articles of clothing costing much less, so how is it better?


This is where we disagree. I've owned and worn both. My opinion in general is that the good stuff does keep you warmer, drier, is lighter weight and not as bulky, is more durable, dries MUCH quicker when you get wet, and is more functional and comfortable when you're wearing it. Some of the older gear is generally good at one thing, but with a huge penalty in other areas...

I started hunting wearing Filson wool and LL Bean. Good for certain things, but all I remember about that stuff was being cold, wet and miserable camping for 3-4 days at a time hunting mountain whitetail. I graduated to Cabelas gear, some of which I still own but that I hardly ever wear. The pieces that I do like I need to bring my Elk pack to carry them to my stand they're so damn heavy and bulky. All I can say is that I can stay out longer, be more comfortable, and pay attention better with some of the gear available today. Then add in the fact that they way some of the garments are constructed it's easier to draw a bow, easier to access a rangefinder, easier to access your calls, easier to keep your hands warm with less movement...

Here's an example for you - the Sitka Fanatic treestand jacket designed for whitetail. Best piece of hunting gear I've ever owned. Harness pass through in the back so your harness goes underneath and doesn't obstruct any pockets. Zipper goes around the side so you have a kangaroo pocket where you can keep your hands warm in light gloves with handwarmers. Grunt tube and rangefinder pocket high on your chest so they're easily accessible with minimal movement. Quiet outer fabric that a cagey whitetail won't hear as you draw a bow 20 feet above him. Not so bulky that you get string interference. Good synthetic insulation that keeps you warm and a windblock layer. I can wear that sitting in a treestand from temps in the 40's down to single digit cold and stay out dawn to dusk...

Like Joe said - don't knock it until you try it. But don't act like things can't be improved on over time. It's just up to you if you want to spend the money on it...
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Re: Early Season, Lightweight Jacket?

Postby Swede » 08 03, 2017 •  [Post 23]

I believe anyone with unlimited funds can purchase excellent quality clothes with no questions asked. If someone is asking for help on tree stand clothes, it is apparent they want sufficient quality that gets the most bang for the buck. RJ wants something for hunting in September. That is the given criterion. A person does not need real high end stuff for that purpose. If he was planning to hunt the Brooks Range in December, I would have a different answer. I have no idea why people jump on the high end bandwagon for every problem. Then they double down with statements like," I absolutely guarantee". I ask, what is the guarantee worth? Would Joe buy back my $200 vest if it did not out preform my existing down vest and Gore-tec jacket? You are safe Joe as I have no desire to change what I have.

Brendan wrote: My opinion in general is that the good stuff does keep you warmer, drier, is lighter weight and not as bulky, is more durable, dries MUCH quicker when you get wet, and is more functional and comfortable when you're wearing it.
Wow.
My opinion is that your expensive Sitka stuff will do one or two of the things you claim at a significantly higher cost, and the improvement if any is inconsequential in a tree stand. That was the original question until we started down this trail.
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Re: Early Season, Lightweight Jacket?

Postby Indian Summer » 08 03, 2017 •  [Post 24]

Swede.... try it man. I'll sell you an Ascent jacket for half the retail cost. I've replaced it with the Jetstream. I wore it once.
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Re: Early Season, Lightweight Jacket?

Postby Swede » 08 03, 2017 •  [Post 25]

You guys are good sports. I don't need or want anything other than to hassle you characters. I am sure the Sitka gear is excellent and needs no help, or someone like me insinuating it is not worth the cost.
I think we could start a debate on how good a camp RJ runs. I say he can't cook. That is the reason he "enjoys" those wonderful Mountain House meals. What is your take?
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Re: Early Season, Lightweight Jacket?

Postby Lefty » 08 03, 2017 •  [Post 26]

Indian Summer wrote:,,,,,,,love the flexibility of Sitka gear. It will make drawing your bow in any position easier and quieter.,,,,,,,



My father in law got some deal on down jackets, mixed with perma loft, the jacket is huge end up walking around like the Michelin man. Ill wear it snow- machining or doing tractor work. ,.. but it isnt something nothing to hunt in on cold days
I could get by with some cotton in the desert and did,..
As a kid whitetail hunting in northern Minnesota we wore thick wool outer clothing, Im surprised we could get a gun to our shoulder. Lots of bulk and restricted movement. Ive layout hunted geese in colder conditions and was comfortable with the new clothing. when you pile it on thin is good.
I love sleeping in my canvas/fiberfill/flannel bag, roomy and comfy, big bulky and heavy. I dont think Ive ever slept more than a few hundred yards from the truck,..
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Re: Early Season, Lightweight Jacket?

Postby Swede » 08 03, 2017 •  [Post 27]

Lefty, With all due respect sir, I have shot several elk wearing a down vest that is tight to my body. Any garment that is loose can be a problem. I have never tried with a down jacket. With a vest it is easy to draw your bow and the string does not get caught on the sleeves. The only comfort issue I would have with the down vest is that it is too hot on many September days. That is why I also have a lighter synthetic fiber vest. The idea of wearing a Michelin man down coat is hardly relevant to the Early Season, Lightweight Jacket question.

Edit note 8/4/17 I am not trying to argue with Lefty on his post. The point is to be clear that a well fitting down vest does not interfere with shooting a bow.
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Re: Early Season, Lightweight Jacket?

Postby pointysticks » 08 04, 2017 •  [Post 28]

Sitka 90%. great jacket. light!!! really tough as well. sadly mine is too big for me now. i lost a lot of weight. i should drop down a size.

i bought a used First Light north Branch jacket and it is a schooch heavier in the fabric. just as tough..warmer. i should buy a size down in the 90%, but i just cant justify the cost..anymore. i do keep an eye out for a used one now.
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Re: Early Season, Lightweight Jacket?

Postby >>>---WW----> » 08 04, 2017 •  [Post 29]

In early season I wear a long sleeve camo T and just tough it out until the sun comes up. In late September I will have a camo zippered hoody. And I can always slip my rain jacket on if the wind kicks up.
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Re: Early Season, Lightweight Jacket?

Postby lamrith » 08 04, 2017 •  [Post 30]

Swede wrote:I think we could start a debate on how good a camp RJ runs. I say he can't cook. That is the reason he "enjoys" those wonderful Mountain House meals. What is your take?

Pretty much spot on..

What I find funny is RJ hinting that he would even be in a treestand in the morning, or long enough to get cold... HAH... Guy fidgets more than a squirrel on crack. 1st bull he hears he would be trying to be tarzan swinging thru the canopy and Swede and I end up carrying him out..
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Re: Early Season, Lightweight Jacket?

Postby WapitiTalk1 » 08 04, 2017 •  [Post 31]

lamrith wrote:
Swede wrote:I think we could start a debate on how good a camp RJ runs. I say he can't cook. That is the reason he "enjoys" those wonderful Mountain House meals. What is your take?

Pretty much spot on..

What I find funny is RJ hinting that he would even be in a treestand in the morning, or long enough to get cold... HAH... Guy fidgets more than a squirrel on crack. 1st bull he hears he would be trying to be tarzan swinging thru the canopy and Swede and I end up carrying him out..


Hey, MH is a meal and serves the purpose intended for. And we'll see who's carrying out who next month ;)
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Re: Early Season, Lightweight Jacket?

Postby stumpy waters » 08 05, 2017 •  [Post 32]

It's amazing than anyone ever killed anything without Sitka, KUIU, or any other high dollar piece of equipment, let alone even survived walking out the door. Not knocking the gear, other than the price, and I can afford it if I want it. If someone gave me a piece, sure I would wear it. So again, I'm not knocking the gear.

I talked to a guy involved with a very successful, relatively new, 'supposedly very high end' clothing and gear company targeted towards waterfowl hunters last summer. I was around him enough I started inquiring about the prices and why it's really worth what they are charging. He flat out told me that they charge that much 'because we can get away with it'. He specifically said that 'younger generations will pay for it' and said their marketing and business success has shown them that 'younger generations feel like the more they spend, the better the product is, and it's strictly based on how much they spend'.

I'll give them credit, they have good gear. Just like everybody else. He said cost-wise, they aren't paying any more to manufacture their goods than anyone else. He just laughed and said 'we are just smart enough to charge more than everyone else'.
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Re: Early Season, Lightweight Jacket?

Postby Swede » 08 05, 2017 •  [Post 33]

Welcome to the forum Stumpy. It is good to have a new member around the campfire. You have come in with a good bunch here. We debate and make fun, but are respectful and genuinely like each other. Keep an eye on RJ. He gets a little delirious at times. Note the comment above about who will carry who next month. He, Lamrith and I will be hunting in Idaho together.
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Re: Early Season, Lightweight Jacket?

Postby Roosiebull » 08 05, 2017 •  [Post 34]

I have killed plenty of stuff in Wal-Mart camo, I have also killed stuff in my commercial fishing pvc rain gear....of course tech clothing isn't needed.

That being said, it's not about looks or trends, it is way better than cheaper garments, some of it not so much, but much of it is.

I have lots of gear, mostly mismatched, kuiu, first lite, and sitka. I get the articles I like from each company, and I rarely match, I don't care, and elk don't care.

I am far from having unlimited funds, but the cost is very easy to justify, I spend tons of time in my hunting gear, from chasing roosies to blacktail, spring and fall bear, and mountain lions during the off season.

Even in a tree it has benefits, more warmth with less bulk is one, 4 way stretch for unrestricted drawing, etc.

I rarely pay retail, I shop sales, especially for expensive things like rain gear, sometimes shopping deals will have you with mismatched camo, again, I don't care, camo patterns are very over rated.

It boils down to, can you justify it?

If RJ buys high end clothing to sit in a stand, chances are he will be able to use that clothing for other things too, that is where it becomes easier to justify.

I hear the same argument often, people who don't own any high end hunting clothes thinks we are dumb to buy it, and it's no better than other cheap clothing...that ain't so, or even close. Buy some before you criticize it or there is no point in commenting on the subject.
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Re: Early Season, Lightweight Jacket?

Postby stumpy waters » 08 05, 2017 •  [Post 35]

Swede wrote:Welcome to the forum Stumpy. It is good to have a new member around the campfire. You have come in with a good bunch here. We debate and make fun, but are respectful and genuinely like each other. Keep an eye on RJ. He gets a little delirious at times. Note the comment above about who will carry who next month. He, Lamrith and I will be hunting in Idaho together.


Swede thanks. I'm not sure if I have ever posted on here or not I follow several forums and do it through Tapatalk so they are all bunched up. Every now and then will chime in. I don't post much on these western game forums because honestly, I'm not from the west. I would be like folks coming on Arkansas waterfowl forums from the east coast giving advice on green timber duck hunting. They do it one week a year and they're experts. I hunt out west one week a year but realize I won't be an expert after a lifetime of 'one weekers' so I just read.

I enjoy reading all the forums that I follow. I take next to nothing of what I read on the Internet very serious and literally nothing personal, it's all good.
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Re: Early Season, Lightweight Jacket?

Postby stumpy waters » 08 05, 2017 •  [Post 36]

Just to clarify, I didn't criticize any of it. I said it's all good stuff.

Are some brands better than others, sure, but when you get to a certain level it's all just as good, and some people are just charging a whole lot more. Like I said it really opened my eyes when the guy from the high-end waterfowl clothing company told me, their stuff is manufactured just like everybody else's with the same materials. There's just a market out there for high dollar equipment, and there are people who are going to pay it and feel like they're getting better stuff just because they pay more. So they charge more because they can. I guess that's just good business.

Do I think someone is dumb because they buy expensive gear? No, and I never said they were and never will. I would actually have to care what someone else wore first, but more importantly It's their money spend it however. If they buy it and regret it, I might say it was a dumb decision. If they buy it and like it, all seems good to me.


As far as trying, I have although it's always been borrowed. Can't say I was ever any warmer, any dryer, or any more comfortable, than the moderately price NatGear clothing that I generally purchase.
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Re: Early Season, Lightweight Jacket?

Postby WapitiTalk1 » 08 05, 2017 •  [Post 37]

Yes, the modern day synthetic, merino wool, and composition blend materials are better hunting clothes folks in many way. Yes, I still have several pairs of old school wool pants, a good collection of cotton hoodies, and a ton of other hodge-podge items that have been with me forever (oddly enough, some of them seem to disappear from time to time as Mrs. W cleans house, along with some of my favorite old T shirts... :? ). I do understand the old salt's (and even some of you young guns) reluctance to pay $89.99 for a fricking shirt... I get it. But.... if you're humping the elk woods, running and gunning, hunkering down under a tree till the snow storm passes, stumbling your way down a flooded FS trail for 3 miles in a monster rain, thunder, lightning, rain storm, even just sitting a stand for XX hours, you'll come to the summation that the new stuff is just flat out better. It's lighter, wicks moisture, dries quicker, doesn't stink as bad once heavily pitted on/in, keeps you warmer/cooler in various situations... etc. Is it expensive, yep... Is it worth it? IMO, absolutely ;).

Back to my original topic.... I was searching for "a lightweight jacket to wear over a base layer in the early mornings, sitting an elk perch/stand, that is just enough to keep the core temp warm?". Mostly, I was searching for something to use in the thralls of the SEP heat that I could put on over my base layer so I'm not chilled in the morning hiking in, take off once Mr. Sun warms the area up a bit and I continue to move/hike, put back on if I decide to sit a stand or stop on a cool N slope for lunch, perhaps don if I finally try the TS thing out this year, and yep... put that joker back on when hiking out of a chilly hole after dark. I have a good selection of heavier jackets but all are a bit heavy for the purpose I described. I ended up ordering one of the new Sitka Core Hoodies with the super cool hoody, and, drop down/built in face mask. I think this piece of gear may work out well... particularly in this year of a higher than usual snow pack and ravenous skeetos/noseeums trying to eat the meat off my face. I'll let you cats know how I like it.. Thanks to all for chiming in! RJ
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Re: Early Season, Lightweight Jacket?

Postby 1Elkhunter » 08 06, 2017 •  [Post 38]

The modern technical hunting clothing options today, for active hunting in the Western high altitude conditions, are light years ahead of anything else. I consider myself an authority on this as I own enough hunting clothing to literally outfit a small army, accumulated over decades of hunting experience of all different kinds, in all different places, for all different types of game and methods of take from Mexico to Alaska and most of the Western states. I wear/carry what the possible conditions dictate for the style of hunting that I will be doing and the time of year and the location. For an early season active high mountain hunt, you bet I'll be wearing my way overpriced kit from the likes of First Lite, Kuiu and Sitka. Yes the prices are laughable, but I can layer with lighter weight gear that takes up less room in my pack, weighs significantly less, wicks moisture from my body, dries quickly, regulates body temp in hot or cold conditions, doesn't stink, insultes when wet, etc. I have worked my azz off my whole life to afford it, so i don't apologize for choosing to overspend on gear that might save my life, or at least allows me to be a more efficient hunter and focus on filling my tag. To answer the OP's question directly... a great early season jacket that has pretty good DWR coating, and can cover you in a wide range of temps, with some ability to block wind and is lightweight, hands down to me is the Kuiu DCS guide jacket, or even just the DCS Guide vest. First half of Sept I'd pack the vest, second half the jacket. One of the two always gets thrown in the pack. That in combination with a good lightweight merino base layer and lightweight rain shell is all I have ever needed in CO high country in September. Combine the vest and the jacket together and I can usually get through mid November before going to something heavier. Just wear a heavier merino wool base layer. One last thing to add... giving the same consideration to your head, hands and feet allow me to wear less on my core... if I keep my extremities warm I'm warmer in general... I know that's common sense but worth mentioning in context of the subject matter.
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Re: Early Season, Lightweight Jacket?

Postby RAMMONT » 08 06, 2017 •  [Post 39]

Absolutists are usually wrong and that definitely applies when someone says that the newer clothing products are absolutely useless. I'm 60 years old and live in Montana on the west side of the divide and I can attest to the benefit of the newer inclement weather clothing. I can remember sitting in the mountains of northern Arizona hunting deer with my dad and freezing to death while be bundled up in layers of cotton and wool, wool underwear, wool shirt, cotton jacket with wool lining - I felt like a big ball of insulation and still froze to death when we'd sit on a stand. Everything was so bulky that you'd always go back to camp at mid day to drop off all that heavy clothing that you didn't need for the afternoon hunt. And then we'd go back out and hunt till sunset because we were starting to freeze again since we didn't take our heavy clothing with us for the afternoon hunt.

Now I take a few layers of thin light stuff with me that can easily be compressed into my day pack and I can spend the entire day hunting and come back after dark without a problem. My wife was very concerned about the winters in Montana when we moved here because she can't handle the cold very well. Once we got her some good Sitka gear she was ecstatic because now she can take walks in the winter snow in comfort. I like being able to move comfortably up and down the mountains even when I've got my warmest clothing on and at 60 years old you don't want to waste any energy just trying to overcome the restriction of big, heavy, layers of clothing. What's more, the newer materials actually keep you dry when it rains. In the old days, you didn't really bother with rain gear because you'd sweat so much that you might as well just let the rain soak your clothes, at least you'd wash the stink away. Now I use my rain gear as another warmth layer along with repelling water. It's also great as a light weight wind breaker, it's perfect for those times when the wind blows while you're sitting in the shade of a tree, just heavy enough to keep you from getting cold but not so heavy that you sweat when you're hiking in the sun.

We all make do with what we can and if I couldn't afford the newer clothing then I'd continue to work with nothing but wool and cotton but since I can afford it I'd much rather spend the money and be far more comfortable. I agree that a lot of these clothing items are overpriced but to claim that they don't cost any more than a simple checkered wool shirt is either silly or just plain ignorant. When a manufacturer uses unique weaves and adds proprietary materials, special stretch materials, and coatings to their clothing it's just going to cost more money to make, it's that simple. A perfect example is silk long underwear, it's pricey but it's thin, comfortable, and it works so business people will spend the money willingly when they live or travel to cold climates.
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Re: Early Season, Lightweight Jacket?

Postby Swede » 08 06, 2017 •  [Post 40]

I purchased the high tech underwear about 6 years ago. I suppose even though it is still in excellent condition there may be some newer fabrics, so some would suggest I buy more. Still it is light, dries quickly and manages to minimize odor. Different pairs comes in different weights for different temperatures and levels of activity. That said, you can get cold wearing it, and I have had to remove it when the temperatures rise. I like it as it is as warm as wool without the itch. It carries less odor too.
I have lived, worked and hunted in the forests of the Pacific Northwest nearly all my life. My experience is that the older established clothing, offered for years, was not near as bad as people here claim if used properly, and the new stuff is not as miraculous as claimed either. Is the new stuff worth the extra cost? You have to be the judge for yourself, but lets not make the old stuff to be an excruciating experience, and the new stuff to be a taste of heaven. I have hunted for years in a tree stand, and I have yet to need to dress like the Michelin man to be reasonably comfortable. I admit I choose to be on the cool side and can be in my synthetic underwear. I don't want to shiver, but want to be very alert. That is my choice.
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Re: Early Season, Lightweight Jacket?

Postby Swede » 08 06, 2017 •  [Post 41]

How should the well dressed tree stand hunter be covered for all day hunts? Here is my recommendation.
Anticipate the temperature range you will experience daily in your stand. prepare to dress in layers for the changing temperatures. When you walk to your stand, have one or two extra layers in your pack, plus warm gloves and a good stocking cap or equivalent. Do that, except when it is going to be real warm both early morning and late evening. The extra layer(s) in your pack could be a warm shirt, vest, and/or jacket. I only add the second add-on shirt layer to my pack when it could get significantly colder. It is easy to take off clothes when it starts to get warm in the day, but more difficult to put on clothes you may have in camp. Bring a little more than you think you will need.
For further consideration, do not wear a baggy outer shirt or jacket that could catch your bow string. Sleeves are especially prone to being a problem if you are not careful. Shoot a few times wearing the clothes you will take to your stand to ensure it all works for you.

I hope no one thinks I am against the quality high end clothing. That is not the case at all, but if you don't have it, don't worry. I hunted for years without any of it and can say it is not essential to anything I am aware of.
A benefit of a good stocking cap is that people will mistake you for Chuck Adams. :D
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Re: Early Season, Lightweight Jacket?

Postby Roosiebull » 08 06, 2017 •  [Post 42]

Swede, you make a good point, old clothes were not that bad, and new high tech stuff isn't magical.

I think anytime we can actually tell a difference, we run with it, and maybe over emphasize things, like bulls for example, we may see 2 bulls, a 4 and 5 point, "I will only shoot that 5 point"

The 4 point isn't tiny, and the 5 point isn't big, but we can tell there is a difference, so we get snobby :D

Like I said before, I have hunted in lots of cheap camo, and lots of crappy rain gear for the task, but it didn't change my enjoyment of the hunt, and I don't try harder now that I'm wearing high tech hunting clothes, it's a straight up luxury, and I personally can justify it.

I don't need a 400 dollar rod to catch a steelhead, but all of them I have are in that range, I like them more and use them a bunch, so I can justify it.

I like certain luxury. Work I do the same, I could get away with cheaper gear, and still do fine, but I like working with goid stuff.
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Re: Early Season, Lightweight Jacket?

Postby stumpy waters » 08 08, 2017 •  [Post 43]

Most everything I wear hunting is probably less than three years old. It's all newer, technical fabrics. I can't say I still have anything I wore decades ago. So i was not comparing outdated technology. Just the price that one company charges you compared to another these days, for products made out of the same materials, in the same Chinese manufacturing plants. Some people like to spend more on clothes than others. If both individuals are warm, dry both inside and out, sounds like everybody is probably happy.
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Re: Early Season, Lightweight Jacket?

Postby Ben Nicholson » 08 08, 2017 •  [Post 44]

Sitka 90% is my go to jacket during bow season.
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