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Should I sell my heavy arrows?

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Should I sell my heavy arrows?

Postby BrowTines » 02 08, 2018 •  [Post 1]

Recently I scoured the Internet for information on arrow penetration. Yes, I know this is controversial. However, the mantra "heavier is better" seemed to be the resounding message for me. The local sporting goods store was closing out and had a great deal on arrows - selection was limited. I was able to find arrows of the right spine - some of those were Easton FMJs. I bought 18 - thinking those were high-end arrows that would last me a long time. I can't take those back.

I then did more research and discovered that heavy arrows are good to a point and the arrows I purchased may be too heavy.

Here are my arrow specs:

arrow= 12 gr/in
insert = 16gr HIT
arrow = 10.4 gpi
BH = 125 grain
2” Vanes = 18 gr (6 gr/each)
Xnocks = 9 gr

29 inch arro
Total = 516 gr - FOC 9.9%

I came across two pieces of information which made me do a double take:

http://forums.bowsite.com/tf/bgforums/thread.cfm?forum=5&threadid=409174

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6qrTrRyOog

Yes, Elknut is one. Both sources advocate 6.5-6.7 times your bow weight for the ideal arrow penetration weight (I will use 6.7 as my number). Both seemed to have done extensive testing.

I shoot around 70 lbs.

According to this formula my ideal arrow weight would be = 469 gr

I am over the ideal by 47 gr, according to the formula I would need a draw weight of 77 lbs (that is not an option).
I want the best possible penetration on those questionable shots - not that I try for questionable shots ...but you know what can happen.
Should I sell my arrows?
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Re: Should I sell my heavy arrows?

Postby Roosiebull » 02 08, 2018 •  [Post 2]

The heavier you go, you will gain penetration, people get stuck on KE numbers, but they don't tell much of the story. I think you are over thinking it a bit. My suggestion is get some heavier heads to get your FOC over 12% and use your arrows.

I'm bumping up to around 600gr arrows this year @73lbs
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Re: Should I sell my heavy arrows?

Postby jmez » 02 09, 2018 •  [Post 3]

If they are 300 spine FMJ's I think you should sell them!
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Re: Should I sell my heavy arrows?

Postby BrowTines » 02 09, 2018 •  [Post 4]

Those are 300 spine - but that is the recommended spine according to Easton. ...so jmez why do you think this way?
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Re: Should I sell my heavy arrows?

Postby Roosiebull » 02 09, 2018 •  [Post 5]

He probably wants to buy them cheap :lol:
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Re: Should I sell my heavy arrows?

Postby WapitiTalk1 » 02 09, 2018 •  [Post 6]

Did you get a chance to run through Beendare's thread? Pretty informative about hunting with heavy arrows...... viewtopic.php?f=14&t=8504

I believe that a hunter should push the heaviest arrows they can with the poundage they shoot!
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Re: Should I sell my heavy arrows?

Postby jmez » 02 09, 2018 •  [Post 7]

What Roosiebull said! IMO your arrows aren't even close to too heavy. They are the same arrow and weight that I shoot at 70#. I wouldn't go any lighter with mine and may switch to a brass hit to up the weight even more.
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Re: Should I sell my heavy arrows?

Postby BrowTines » 02 10, 2018 •  [Post 8]

Yes,
That exact thread was one of the motivating factors for purchasing these fmj arrows. That said I am swayed by the evidence of a sweet spot (6.7xdraw weight) for penetration. It is the evidence that Elknut demonstrates that is compelling for me.
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Re: Should I sell my heavy arrows?

Postby Swede » 02 12, 2018 •  [Post 9]

Arrows weighing 516 grains are not too heavy for elk hunting bows. what I question is if you have enough fletch to get good accuracy with your broad-heads on?
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Re: Should I sell my heavy arrows?

Postby Lefty » 02 13, 2018 •  [Post 10]

Or use them for off season practice.
I may be swapping out arrows this year,.. I have a few over a dozen designated hunting/practice arrows depending on how many I break our loose before season will decide which arrows Ill shoot this fall.

Ill have a couple dozen new and slightly different arrows that will be ready to screw in field tips and broad-heads if necessary and change the distance on my sights .

I started hunting with my bow set in the mid 40's # wise. Lighter arrows gave me flatter shooting arrow at closer ranges.
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Re: Should I sell my heavy arrows?

Postby BrowTines » 02 13, 2018 •  [Post 11]

In regards to the fletching length: I had 4 inch fletching on my old arrows but my new fmj arrows came with the 2 inch fletching already installed from the factory. I assumed since those came like that, those would be good to go. I plan to use VPA 125 gr broadheads. Do you think the 2 inch fletching will do a good enough job straightening the arrow out? I plan to shoot it out of an Hoyt RX-1 (centre alignment) so I am hoping there won't be too much arrow wobble out of the bow. Thoughts?

Mixing arrows for practice may work for some but I like to practice with the exact same arrow I will be hunting with so I don't have to make as many adjustments before the season starts.
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Re: Should I sell my heavy arrows?

Postby Brendan » 02 13, 2018 •  [Post 12]

If your Hoyt is broadhead tuned such that your field points and your broadheads hit the same spot, you're probably fine. But, longer vanes fletched with steeper offset or a helical offer a better safety margin and more forgiveness stabilizing a big fixed blade. I'd personally recommend 3 x 3" helical fletch vanes - VPA's aren't the most forgiving in my experience. (I shoot 3 helical fletched AAE Max Stealth Vanes, and they work great)

Also with your Hoyt - just setting center shot usually isn't enough. You should make sure the bow is timed, set center shot, and then yoke tune the bow to get your field points and broadheads hitting together. If you don't have the experience and equipment to do that yourself, that means working with a pro-shop you trust.

Also - your arrows aren't too heavy. I personally think there was something else going on with Elknut's testing in that 2012 thread that was causing the reaction he saw, which is supported by a lot of penetration testing over the years. My bet is that he was running into dynamic spine issues as he increased the weight on the front of the arrows. The main tradeoff you do run into with a heavier arrow is arrow speed, which translates into pin gap at longer ranges, and more time for an animal to potentially jump the string if they're really on alert...
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Re: Should I sell my heavy arrows?

Postby Swede » 02 13, 2018 •  [Post 13]

In the past, arrows over 500 grains were best stabilized with 5 inch vanes. The factory has no idea what kind of point you are going to put on. Broad-heads act like small vanes up front and have a tendency to try to steer the arrow. To counter that tendency I go with larger fletch on heavier arrows. On all arrows I want a helical fletch, a helical is often not on factory arrows. It is quicker and cheaper to go with a straight fletch. You can check these things by looking, or shoot some and see.
I would probably test my arrows, out to the maximum range I will try to kill an animal, before I would strip off the factory fletching.
It looks like Brendan and I are thinking alike. As I prepared to post, I was stopped due to his post above.
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Re: Should I sell my heavy arrows?

Postby Swede » 02 13, 2018 •  [Post 14]

I also agree with Brendan's take on arrow penetration. Unstable arrows don't penetrate well. Heavy arrow well balanced, and with a proper spine penetrate better than the lighter ones.

Brendan's reference to "dynamic spine" is about the amount the arrow bends when the bow string is released, and the bow's stored energy is being applied to the arrow.
"Therefore, the lighter the arrow, the less efficiently energy is transferred from the bow." "The most efficient energy transfer is achieved with heavier arrows." Easton Arrow University.
I have read of hunters going after dangerous game epoxying an aluminum arrow shaft inside of a larger shaft to increase penetration. They give up some range to get penetration.
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Re: Should I sell my heavy arrows?

Postby BrowTines » 02 14, 2018 •  [Post 15]

Thanks for all your comments and suggestions. I will certainly take those into account. I will keep the arrows and give them a go. ...and yes, I understand the need for tuning the bow and making sure the flight of the arrows are true, so I will attend to that. There are parts of that process (cam sychnonoization) that I will leave up to the local bow shop because I don't have a bow press but I really like to do the rest myself. For one reason, I like the comfort of knowing that it is done right and second because it is part of the craft of using a primitive weapon.
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Re: Should I sell my heavy arrows?

Postby Roosiebull » 02 15, 2018 •  [Post 16]

The loss of trajectory is minimal as well, less significant than most think.
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Re: Should I sell my heavy arrows?

Postby Old school » 03 03, 2018 •  [Post 17]

I'm a little late to the party, but I concur, you're just fine. I shoot a 30" Carbon Express Mutiny 350 with 2" blazer vanes. Total finished arrow weight with broadhead is a touch over 500 gr and I shoot 67# out of my Bowtech. I have experienced ZERO issues with arrow flight. Make sure your bow is tuned right and you should be good to go.

--Mitch
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