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Solid Two Blade Broadheads

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Solid Two Blade Broadheads

Postby Dakota Rookie » 02 15, 2018 •  [Post 1]

What are your guys' take on 2 blade fixed broad heads? I've never really been a fan of mechanicals for various reasons - mainly because I feel the less moving parts in your setup, the less problems you can have. Maybe true - Maybe completely ridiculous..... Anyway. I've been looking into switching up what I shoot. Currently shoot the Muzzy Torcars with the replaceable blades and have had decent luck with them. However, sometimes I'll have sporadic arrow flight with these broadheads and my initial reaction is because of the opening(vents?) the blades have and maybe they can cause increased air resistance and throw the arrows off target. With a little research I found a few things to support this thought. I've found a couple different two blade, fixed broad heads that are 125g and a solid broad head (no "vents") and wanted to see if anyone here shoots this style of broadhead and what their thoughts were/are.
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Re: Solid Two Blade Broadheads

Postby Swede » 02 15, 2018 •  [Post 2]

Dakota, the vents in your blades are not the problem. I have shot 2, 3 and 4 blade broadheads, and they all will do a good job in the right arrangement. There are arguments for all kinds of broadheads. I am almost positive there is something with your bow or arrow, or possibly both that is causing your problem.

Starting with your arrow : Do you have a good helical fletch? Is the arrow spine correct for your bow? Do you have enough weight forward to cause the arrow to fly like a dart? If you spin the arrow, is there any wobble at the nock or broadhead? Often field points will fly consistently with a poor set up, but by putting wings (broadheads) on the front of your arrow, flights start to degrade.

If your arrow is not coming out of your bow straight in line with the travel of the string, you will have immediate flight problems. Very minor errors can be corrected in flight, but major problems won't solve themselves. I have found many bow shops do a poor job of setting up a bow. They will tell you it is correct, and not to mess with it, but it is not right. A good bow shop can tune your set up so you can go to the field with confidence in the arrows and broadheads they sell you.

As far as good shooting broadheads is concerned, the ones that are easiest to tune are the shorter replaceable type. I am not saying they are the best at killing big game, but they tune pretty easily.
Broadheads with large wings like the solid two blade affairs will plane more and are actually harder to tune.
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Re: Solid Two Blade Broadheads

Postby Brendan » 02 16, 2018 •  [Post 3]

Agree with Swede that I don't think the vents are your issue. They are normally a little more forgiving than a non-vented design, but usually a little louder. The most forgiving fixed blades that I've personally shot are Wac 'Em, Solid, Shuttle-T. I thought Solid (The brand) would be less forgiving because of the larger two blade design, but they flew well (Expensive though). If I were trying a 2 blade right now I'd be looking at RMS Cutthroat or Iron Will (Iron Will is Real expensive!)

Like Swede said above: It would be good to make sure your bow is broadhead tuned, check arrows on an arrow spinner, verify correct spine, and make sure you have enough fletching to give you more forgiveness.
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Re: Solid Two Blade Broadheads

Postby Dakota Rookie » 02 16, 2018 •  [Post 4]

When I was going through my set up last spring and summer I was getting bullet holes through paper but that doesn't mean something hasn't changed and causing that erratic flight every once in a while. I'm looking much more at my arrow set up. I'm going to give my go at putting my own arrows together. I considered a helical but was planning on fletching my arrows straight. Should I look into a helical to create more spin out of the bow and straighten the arrow out quicker?? not sure. I am planning on experimenting with different types of fletches, four fletches, and different FOCs to see what shoots the best with my bow and setup. Different FOCs could potentially change my arrow spine so I'll be keeping that in mind when choosing arrows.

Since you both agree that it's most likely my bow causing these strange arrow flights I'll be checking that set up as well!! The rabbit hole of archery continues :D
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Re: Solid Two Blade Broadheads

Postby Brendan » 02 16, 2018 •  [Post 5]

Could be arrows, could be bow, could be form and consistency.

Start with the arrows - correct spine and test them on an arrow spinner to make sure they're spinning true.

Then move to the bow - paper tuning is a good start, also checking for fletching clearance. Then, finish with broadhead tuning.

Still running into consistency issues - I'd recommend bare shaft tuning to see how consistently a bare shaft flies for you. That will show equipment issues, as well as form issues.

A different fletching is probably last - that gives you more forgiveness once you've got everything else squared away. I use 3 x 3" helical fletched vanes and they work great for me.

Good luck!
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Re: Solid Two Blade Broadheads

Postby >>>---WW----> » 02 16, 2018 •  [Post 6]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dm_mBH9lhRw

Here is a good video to watch. This guy also has over 100 other videos on bow tuning that you may find helpful.

Don't get hung up on paper tuning. If your spine is even close to correct and you are dead center shot and level, just about anything will paper tune. It's just mostly how close or far away your paper is. At some distance, just about all of them will punch a perfect hole.

As far as a good solid two blade broadhead goes, give Magnus Stingers a try. If they don't hit where your field points are, you have other problems besides blaming it on your broadheads. You've been getting good advice from all the guys here that have answered your post. One that no one has addressed is why they don't spin test well. Could be a bent head or a miss aligned ferrell.
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Re: Solid Two Blade Broadheads

Postby Swede » 02 16, 2018 •  [Post 7]

Brendan wrote:Could be arrows, could be bow, could be form and consistency.


I had not thought of that, but you are correct. This is especially true when shooting broad-heads.
I remember going to PSE's dealer school. George Chapman asked if we were shooting straight or helical fletched arrows. Some said they shot straight fletched arrows. He then asked if it bothered them that they could not hit a target consistently. Yes, it is important to shoot a helical or offset fletched arrow when shooting broad-heads. A helical fletch cuts down on arrow flight plane.

Brendan, I have vacillated a lot on paper tuning due at least in part to the effects of dynamic spine. Also as soon as I put on broad-heads, I need to adjust the rest so my broad-heads hit where my field points do. This negates the benefit of the paper tune. It has also been my experience that when I go to shoot from one day to the next, I have some imperceptible small difference in my form that causes my paper tune to look like I need to adjust again. What are your thoughts on this?

Dakota, Brendan knows bows for sure. You will do well to pay attention to what he says about this stuff. WW has been around the block more than a few times too and has learned archery.
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Re: Solid Two Blade Broadheads

Postby Brendan » 02 16, 2018 •  [Post 8]

I think paper tuning is a good start - but most important is getting your BH and Field Tips to hit the same place throughout your effective range. Once you're there, don't worry about the paper tune. I've seen a paper tear change based on how far you are from the paper because of the arrow oscillating in flight.

But, one interesting thing you brought up - yes, you can get a paper tear that wasn't there before based on poor form, torquing the bow, etc. It shows up even quicker if you're shooting a bare shaft and comparing it to your fletched arrows. If you can consistently get a bare shaft and fletched arrow (with field points) hitting to the same spot out to 20, then 30 yards - then you know you're doing pretty well... On rare occasions, I can make it happen at 40 yards... But then I'll get cocky and miss the target butt with the bare shaft on the next shot if I'm not careful.

My process is: Shoot the bow to make sure the strings are settled in correctly (if they're new). Then set it up, centershot, peep, DL & DW adjusted, get cams timed. Then make sure you don't have fletching clearance issues, then bare shaft tune, then broadhead tune. Then I will shoot bare shafts throughout the season to show how well I'm shooting on any given day... You can even get into torque tuning - Moving rest/sight bar in or out from the riser for a more forgiving setup if you want to.
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Re: Solid Two Blade Broadheads

Postby >>>---WW----> » 02 16, 2018 •  [Post 9]

Two things I recall from back in the past before compounds were even thought of. And they still may hold true to some extent for some modern bows and always for trad shooters weather they realize it or not. Just thought I'd throw these out there for the heck of it. :roll:

1) It is always easy to under spine an arrow but hard to over spine one as a general rule. Remember, this was back in the 50s & 60s!

2) Broadheads should be aligned in the horizontal position. It had nothing to do with lining them up with the fletching. Instead, it was designed for traditional shooters that used the tip of the arrow as an aiming point and so the broadhead wouldn't interfere with their shooting style. This bares no meaning to me as I don't aim that way. I just screw them on let em fly!
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Re: Solid Two Blade Broadheads

Postby Swede » 02 16, 2018 •  [Post 10]

Hey Bill, did you ever get to hunt with Saxon Pope or Art Young back in the day? Was Fred Bear as good as they claim? :D
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Re: Solid Two Blade Broadheads

Postby >>>---WW----> » 02 16, 2018 •  [Post 11]

Swede wrote:Hey Bill, did you ever get to hunt with Saxon Pope or Art Young back in the day? Was Fred Bear as good as they claim? :D


You should know the answer to that as well as I do. I think we are the same age :lol:
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Re: Solid Two Blade Broadheads

Postby Swede » 02 16, 2018 •  [Post 12]

They were a little before our time. I never met Glen St Charles, but probably could have if I went to Seattle.
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Re: Solid Two Blade Broadheads

Postby baddaddy » 02 16, 2018 •  [Post 13]

I run a two blade single bevel outback broad head and like them. It does take a bit to get them tuned. I use a modified French tune then a broad head tune to get the bow tuned. Once its tuned they fly great even at 300 plus feet a second. They fly even better at slower speeds.
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Re: Solid Two Blade Broadheads

Postby Dakota Rookie » 02 16, 2018 •  [Post 14]

Thanks for all the comments and help! I’ve got a few different arrow combinations to try that I’m going to try to put together based on the comments. I’ll be poking at my bow setup and make sure it’s dialed in as well.

Back to the broadheads - Swede - you said the replaceable blade broadheads are probably easiest to tune but probably not best for killing big game. The trocars I shoot haven’t had a problem on Whitetails and Mule Deer. Are you suggesting a broadhead like the G5 montec (fixed, solid, and slightly larger cutting diameter) would be better for elk sized game? Or something else?
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Re: Solid Two Blade Broadheads

Postby Swede » 02 16, 2018 •  [Post 15]

Dakota, I think the longer cut to the tip broad-heads are slightly better. I still use the three replaceable blade broad-heads. The longer cut to tip ones are not that much better. I prefer replacing blades to sharpening dulled ones. I can never get blades as sharp as the better factory ones.
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Re: Solid Two Blade Broadheads

Postby Dakota Rookie » 02 17, 2018 •  [Post 16]

Swede wrote:I prefer replacing blades to sharpening dulled ones. I can never get blades as sharp as the better factory ones.


Agreed
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Re: Solid Two Blade Broadheads

Postby WapitiTalk1 » 02 18, 2018 •  [Post 17]

Haven’t killed anything em yet but I really like how the Magnus Stingers fly.
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Re: Solid Two Blade Broadheads

Postby >>>---WW----> » 02 19, 2018 •  [Post 18]

Swede wrote:Hey Bill, did you ever get to hunt with Saxon Pope or Art Young back in the day? Was Fred Bear as good as they claim? :D


I did run into a guy that clamed to be friends with Howard Hill!
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Re: Solid Two Blade Broadheads

Postby Swede » 02 19, 2018 •  [Post 19]

Bill, your story tops anything I have. I am sure I have hunted where Larry D. Jones has hunted. Does that count for something. I can't say his area is anything special. Certainly not anymore.
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Re: Solid Two Blade Broadheads

Postby Roosiebull » 02 20, 2018 •  [Post 20]

Brendan wrote:I think paper tuning is a good start - but most important is getting your BH and Field Tips to hit the same place throughout your effective range. Once you're there, don't worry about the paper tune. I've seen a paper tear change based on how far you are from the paper because of the arrow oscillating in flight.

But, one interesting thing you brought up - yes, you can get a paper tear that wasn't there before based on poor form, torquing the bow, etc. It shows up even quicker if you're shooting a bare shaft and comparing it to your fletched arrows. If you can consistently get a bare shaft and fletched arrow (with field points) hitting to the same spot out to 20, then 30 yards - then you know you're doing pretty well... On rare occasions, I can make it happen at 40 yards... But then I'll get cocky and miss the target butt with the bare shaft on the next shot if I'm not careful.

My process is: Shoot the bow to make sure the strings are settled in correctly (if they're new). Then set it up, centershot, peep, DL & DW adjusted, get cams timed. Then make sure you don't have fletching clearance issues, then bare shaft tune, then broadhead tune. Then I will shoot bare shafts throughout the season to show how well I'm shooting on any given day... You can even get into torque tuning - Moving rest/sight bar in or out from the riser for a more forgiving setup if you want to.

very good stuff!

I think form is one of the main causes of erratic arrow flight with broadheads. never start broadhead tuning when you are fatigued from shooting a bunch already, unless you enjoy aggravation :lol:

I have only got into tuning the last 6 or 7 yrs, I used to just re sight in with broadheads before season (I know, I know :roll: ) I still take the shortest path to tuning, and generally get by with just BH tuning, if not I will paper, then bare shaft. I shoot 3 practice arrows all year, one is a broadhead, just to make sure everything stays in tune.
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Re: Solid Two Blade Broadheads

Postby Swede » 02 20, 2018 •  [Post 21]

Roosiebull wrote: I still take the shortest path to tuning, and generally get by with just BH tuning, if not I will paper, then bare shaft. I shoot 3 practice arrows all year, one is a broadhead, just to make sure everything stays in tune.


I take the shortest path to tuning also. I set the rest at center shot. I found out Mathews says center shot is 13/16 inches from the riser on my bow, so my rest is exactly 13/16 inch from the riser. The arrow lays level on my drop away rest. I use a double jaw release. Both limbs on my 60# bow are screwed right to the bottom. Actually that is the formula on all of my bows. I have found my broadheads hit where my field points do with that simple plan. If they don't then there is something off with the arrow.
Nothing else I have tried works as consistently well as this simple set up. Brendan, I would like your comment on this, as it seems too simple but it works for me..
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Re: Solid Two Blade Broadheads

Postby Brendan » 02 20, 2018 •  [Post 22]

Swede wrote:
Roosiebull wrote: I still take the shortest path to tuning, and generally get by with just BH tuning, if not I will paper, then bare shaft. I shoot 3 practice arrows all year, one is a broadhead, just to make sure everything stays in tune.


I take the shortest path to tuning also. I set the rest at center shot. I found out Mathews says center shot is 13/16 inches from the riser on my bow, so my rest is exactly 13/16 inch from the riser. The arrow lays level on my drop away rest. I use a double jaw release. Both limbs on my 60# bow are screwed right to the bottom. Actually that is the formula on all of my bows. I have found my broadheads hit where my field points do with that simple plan. If they don't then there is something off with the arrow.
Nothing else I have tried works as consistently well as this simple set up. Brendan, I would like your comment on this, as it seems too simple but it works for me..


That's how I start with every bow too. Rest at center shot so an arrow runs parallel to your stabilizer. I run it completely level running through the middle to top of the berger hole. Limbs are bottomed out, or turned back by exactly the same amount.

I haven't shot Matthews, but most bows need a little tweaking for me from that point to get perfect, but it's usually not much. With my Hoyts I adjust top cam lean, with my Prime I tweak the rest and/or the cable guard, but have also swapped shims around so I could keep my rest right at center shot. Was actually doing this today with my Prime - and it's pretty close without needing much changed...
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Re: Solid Two Blade Broadheads

Postby Swede » 02 20, 2018 •  [Post 23]

Brendan, do you use a double jaw release?
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Re: Solid Two Blade Broadheads

Postby Brendan » 02 21, 2018 •  [Post 24]

Swede wrote:Brendan, do you use a double jaw release?


Not for a couple seasons now. Right now I'm using a hand held tension release for practice, and a hand held thumb trigger for hunting - both are made by Carter. I do have two wrist releases that I may try again because I do like just leaving them on my wrist.

The most important thing for me with a release is being able to adjust the trigger tension. I don't like it to be too light. I like to be able to put my finger or thumb on the trigger, and then slowly pull like a rifle trigger...

Image
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Re: Solid Two Blade Broadheads

Postby Swede » 02 21, 2018 •  [Post 25]

Brendan, I was wondering if the release you used was different than mine. I have found I need to adjust my rest a little if I use anything other than a double jaw release. I prefer the Scott Shark, but have a Cobra as a backup. Cobra has been good to deal with, but their jaws are too wide and the edges wear down the nocking loop pretty fast. Scott is very smooth and the only gripe I have about them is they can get lost as easy as a poor one.

Thanks for discussing this. It has been helpful for me, and maybe others.
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Re: Solid Two Blade Broadheads

Postby ishy » 02 24, 2018 •  [Post 26]

My whole group shoots Magnus Stingers and not sure how many elk they've killed, but it's a bunch. Fly great, strong, simple, easy to sharpen, and probably its best feature is they will penetrate better than anything. We want two holes in everything. They also have an unbeatable lifetime guarantee.
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Re: Solid Two Blade Broadheads

Postby Roosiebull » 02 24, 2018 •  [Post 27]

ishy wrote:My whole group shoots Magnus Stingers and not sure how many elk they've killed, but it's a bunch. Fly great, strong, simple, easy to sharpen, and probably its best feature is they will penetrate better than anything. We want two holes in everything. They also have an unbeatable lifetime guarantee.

Roger that!

I have been shooting hornet ser razors the past 3 yrs and love them, but in the name of bumping arrow weight up, I think I may switch to 150gr stingers this year. I have used buzz cuts in the past with really good results.

I will pretty much shoot any broadhead..... as long as it's a Magnus. great heads, and Mike is a super cool guy with a business model I want to support.
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Re: Solid Two Blade Broadheads

Postby Elkhntr08 » 02 25, 2018 •  [Post 28]

Magnus Stingers are not sexy or cool. They just get the job done. I’ve tried several different heads over the years, now shooting ViperTrick, but will circle back around to Stingers. Been told I’m a slow learner.
Last year, I broke a bleeder. Emailed Mike, he asked for a picture and a week later a new Stinger in the mail. That head was 5 years old. Hands down the best Customer Service out there.
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Re: Solid Two Blade Broadheads

Postby baddaddy » 02 25, 2018 •  [Post 29]

outback.jpg
outback.jpg (33.22 KiB) Viewed 9235 times

Here's the one I use.
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Re: Solid Two Blade Broadheads

Postby jmez » 02 27, 2018 •  [Post 30]

Try not to make it more difficult than it is.

If you are sporadically getting bad arrow flight, and or the groups are not consistent then that is a shooter issue. If you are getting consistent results/groups but they are where you are aiming or they differ from FP/BH's then it is an equipment/tuning issue.
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