Where are my Constitution Peeps?

[LckyTylr]

I'm NOT a crazy-a$$ gun toting nut job. I certainly do support the NRA (most of the time) and enjoy my right to bare arms. So, why all the fuss about technicalities. The liberals argue that it's not the free citizens that should have firearms, but a "well regulated militia". So, my friends, why hasn't someone started the framework for such a militia to save for a rainy day? Obviously, it would have to be SERIOUSLY well regulated and only on a state-by-state basis. Hmm, who can we think of that has the organizational ability and staffing to take on such a task . . . oh . . . I got it . . . the NRA! Someone shoot holes in my proposition and tell me what I'm missing. The NRA, on a state-by-state basis, would have . . . dare I say . . . elected officials that are in charge of the application process, documentation, training offerings, and maintenance of each individual militia. This would not be an opportunity to gather up in bunches with our guns to "show numbers" or anything that might be construed as intended action. This would simply be a registry of individuals that, at a moments notice, would be willing to protect the state from any threat (whomever that may be). Set up a communication protocol (a phone tree or maybe get support from a news channel - Haha). It would be like a national guard, but NOT run by the Government, by the citizens of that state. Here's the ONLY limiting factor. California, NY, Connecticut and New Hampshire do NOT get to play! So, if you are already holding a concealed carry permit, you get automatic enlistment (if you choose) as you have already passed a background check.

Obviously, this would be a HUGE undertaking which is why it probably hasn't been done. Anyways, just throwing darts at a wall.

[pointysticks]

Are gun rights the litmus test to label someone a liberal?

I love firearms. I have loads of them. I shoot more than most. My only saving grace if I ever need to shoot someone is that I hope they suck more than me. A modern militia would be fun. But man some gun owners are a menace. I would hate to share a foxhole with one. You should see the fools at my gun range.

I wish there was an easy answer.

[Swede]

Maybe I am misunderstanding what you are proposing, but it sounds like you want another elected group to organize a militia to protect us. "We" whoever that is could call on them to go out and defend us from who knows what or whom. To me it sounds like a "government" of the people, by the people and for the people. But wait, isn't that what we are supposed to have now? What is wrong with the police and National Guard that this proposal would fix. The National Guard Is under the authority of each State governor. I sure do not want to arm and equip another militia.
When I lived in Harney County Oregon there were about 7000 people living there. In the county I could count eight separate organizations with police authority that were headquartered within the county. In those eight different organizations, I do not count private contractors, fire fighters or those Policing organizations like the FBI or ATF that could be brought in from the outside. Here in Columbia County it seems that at every election, some organization (Police or Fire or both) wants us to increase our property tax to hire more people to protect us. I have to disagree with the whole premise that we need another organization to protect us. I am more concerned that we may have become paranoid nuts hiring more and more protectors. Our jails and prisons are over flowing and we are also being asked to fund more for our protection. I have heard the U.S.A. has more people incarcerated than any other country on the planet. That is both per capita and in total. Another militia? No Thanks!
No offence intended Lcky. Just my 2 cents.

[Elkduds]

Personally, I am much more worried about the Supreme Court endorsing unlimited campaign contributions by foreign and domestic corporations, which in effect sells control of this country away from individual voters and to corporations. Yes, that would include the same gun and ammunition manufacturers that own and run the NRA.

[Ghost]

First the "well regulated" does not mean regulated in the current sense, but well outfitted or armed, that was the definition of "well regulated" back when the constitution was written, and the militia means every able bodied male.

Second, there are 2 reasons that the 2nd amendment was written, one so we would always have a means of defending ourselves, two, we would have the means to start all over, the citizens would be able to revolt. "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants"

[Swede]

Ghost, it I interesting that you and Timothy McVey are use that Jeffersonian quote out of context to justify your personal opinions. It is disturbing that you would espouse the same words as McVey used, and had printed on his T-Shirt, when he murdered 168 true patriots in Oklahoma City. Jefferson was not advocating anarchy. He was making a case that the Shay's rebellion was an aberration and not anarchy. He was advocating a government such as we have, that is ultimately subject to the people. He wanted a government that was not controlled by an elite class. Thomas Jefferson would have been cheering Elkduds comment and would have condemned Timothy McVey to the same fate the courts sent him to.

[LckyTylr]

Well, I feel as though I'm too ignorant to carry on any more discussion . . . really I'd only be expressing my personal point of view, right, wrong or somewhere in the middle of what some of you may feel. But, I wanted to throw it out there and get some discussion going.

To clarify, I'm not advocating that we elect another group that would carry out what they feel is best for the masses. Really, it would simply be a group of individuals that, should it come down to it, would be willing and able to stand up and fight for what they believe in. If you were a member of that group and saw nothing wrong with the world, I'd expect you to sit on the sidelines and eat popcorn. If you viewed a situation in a regard that you thought warranted action (big or small), I'd hope that you'd join others fighting for the cause to fight for what you feel was afforded you by our founding fathers and the framework that this country was built around. So, in short, it would be a group of people that find a common ground on many issues. If it came down to it that the "group" decided on a person-by-person basis that they didn't like what was going on, there'd be an organized method of communication to . . . plan and react. There'd be no structure to it other than the communication protocol. No leaders, no commanders, no anything, just a group of equals that would be willing to contribute to a cause.

So, obviously this is all very ideal and very VERY far-fetched.

Just food for thought. If tomorrow, the Government or a foreign government decided to lay the smack-down on US Citizens, if there was a emergency public broadcast of some sort asking for you to arm-up and stand guard . . . would you?

[FemoralArchery]

This is the first thread on the Elknut Forum to enter the political realm, with no clear tie to hunting. Personally I think it sets a bad precedent.

I thought political type posts were frowned upon here? The first time one was brought up several people said they didn't want them here, including some "moderators".

[Swede]

Femoral: Apparently the thread you quoted me on was not pulled, so it must have been acceptable. Some of the ideas I see being advocated on this thread make me uncomfortable, but I am not ready to claim foul or call it political. Gun rights, abortion, and a host of other issues may be championed by politicians and political parties, but every discussion of these issues is not necessarily political in nature. In my mind this thread has not crossed that line. I do not pull threads here. I am perfectly happy to wait and see how Elknut views the matter.
I would like to see consistency in the administration of this type of thread. At least this is in the Doc's Office. I would be a little more liberal here.

[LckyTylr]

I'm completely fine with someone pulling this thread. I certainly do NOT want to make any of my fellow elk nuts uncomfortable, so please do, throw this baby in the trash bin.

I certainly would not post this topic on any other forum. It's a very unique dynamic we have on this forum. I trust all of you, oddly, enough to pose such questions without fear of this getting out of hand. On any other forum, it would avalanche out of control in less than 3 posts, the fine folks here at Elknut are different.

Anyways, my apologies. Definitely not my intentions and I'd just assume see it go rather than step on toes or create an environment that would alienate anyone. If even one person decides that they are uncomfortable posting on any topic because of this particular thread, I will feel absolutely terrible.

I feel like a dummy right now.

My apologies, fellow Elknuts.

[Ghost]

Ghost, it I interesting that you and Timothy McVey are use that Jeffersonian quote out of context to justify your personal opinions. It is disturbing that you would espouse the same words as McVey used, and had printed on his T-Shirt, when he murdered 168 true patriots in Oklahoma City. Jefferson was not advocating anarchy. He was making a case that the Shay's rebellion was an aberration and not anarchy. He was advocating a government such as we have, that is ultimately subject to the people. He wanted a government that was not controlled by an elite class. Thomas Jefferson would have been cheering Elkduds comment and would have condemned Timothy McVey to the same fate the courts sent him to.

You disturb easy. Dont put me in the same class as a person who murdered helpless people.

What we have is a government that is ruled by the elite, from a congress that has exempted themselves and their staff from Obamacare, a President that doesnt follow the laws, we are currently ruled by an elite class of politicians. I think Thomas Jefferson, John Adams and the rest of our founders are rolling over in their grave thinking what a bunch of spineless individuals the citizens of the USA have become. We have become nothing more than sheep to be led to the slaughter, and all because we wont think for ourselves and get off our buts and VOTE.

Now Ill remove myself from this subject before it gets ugly.

[ElkNut1]

Guys, we let this thread take its course to see how it would end up & like usual no matter how cordial all try to be someone & generally more than one someone get's their feelings stepped on! This is why we generally do not like to see religion or politics tied in with hunting forums, they generally go sour! (grin) No hard feelings towards anyone for sure but we are closing but not deleting this topic to further discussion. By the way in case some haven't noticed elk season is getting close & the snow is melting in the high country! (grin) Thanks.

ElkNut1