Worried.

[pointysticks]

I wanted to pay back some. I've met some great forum members that actually took the time to meet face to face and take me hunting. I've never returned the gesture to another newbie stranger. This year I did. I picked the nicest guy. Just started bow hunting. Zero experience. Out of shape. He promised that hunting would be the catalyst to urge him into exercise. My first pack hunt a guy had to come back down the hill to grab my pack. Humiliating. I get it.
But this guy is 100% motivated to hunt but not so much to the prep. I'm worried. I took him scouting and the shortest hikes just about killed him. I had a chest cold and I still did fine. He wants to scout a high alpine lake. This would be an overnighter after a five mile hike up up and up. I want to be sensitive to everything but I tried to emphasize the importance of knowing limits. I'm thinking of doing the scout trip. It might be the eye opener he needs. His pack would be the lightest without bow and gear.

Did I bite off more than I can handle? If he hits the wall, I don't mind solo hunting for my own first deer kill with a bow.

Worried.
How much does a portable heart defibrillator weigh?

[ishy]

I think it's great...especially for the scouting part. Test him before september a few times and you'll have a good idea before september if he's up to it. If not you can be frank and still camp together and be in the genreal area if someone needs help packing. I have gotten just as excited helping others get on elk for the first time as tagging out myself.

[easeup]

don't worry...........be happy.

you are doing great. along the way you bring up the issue of being in shape and moving through the woods efficiently.

On certain hunts, you might add it will be important for your success to walk quickly and quietly. State you might need to leave him behind if he cant keep up and arrange a meeting point later. It is that simple.
Same is true with the guy that can never show up on time. No hard feelings; just the facts. The new guy is still learning all the while on what is needed to be a good hunter. It is up to him to make it happen on his end.

[Swede]

I think the best thing is to demonstrate how fun and interesting scouting can be. It is a great learning experience and part of the total package. I do not think I would care to just go out and just shoot a bull and pack it out. It is the total package that makes hunting so great. Does the new hunting friend really enjoy the hunt, or does he just want meat and or a trophy?

[LckyTylr]

Here you go . . .

Make a deal with him. He gets to hunt with you . . . in all of the places that you hunt . . . provided that he scouts each area with you first.

This will be a huge commitment, but it will force him to go scouting with you often. Scout a bunch of areas . . . even if you have scouted them previously, don't tell him that. Tell him that you have plans to hunt ALL of these areas during the season, and that if he only scouts one or two, then he only gets to hunt with you for one or two days. No guilt, he has to earn the privilege. Along the way, he might decide that he's really not cut out for it, maybe not up for the challenge of getting into shape.

If you are honest and upfront with him about it, then he can't be upset about how it plays out.

Elk hunting is hard, it takes a LOT of time to learn an area, to figure out how to find elk, how to hunt that location and how to be in the mountains relying only on what you bring with you. It's not something that someone can just hand to you . . . unless of course you go to NM and hire a guide. If he wants the full experience, it starts in January of every year or earlier for most of us.

[Elkduds]

Completely agree w all who said be direct and honest about your concerns, and use scouting trips to test drive him. On the hunt, have a plan B in which you can hunt where and how you want, and he can take it easier if he can't hang. He still gets to pack meat, though, that is mandatory w elk on the ground.

[WapitiTalk1]

Zero experience is doable, even enjoyable. I've always loved taking new cats out on their first few rut elk hunts. Completely out of elk hunting shape is insurmountable. Been there a few times. You'll end up hunting/packing yourself. He's got to commit and do the conditioning work before "E" day arrives.

[Gypsumreaper]

Here's what I got I have a good buddy, have hunted with him for 5 years now. I'm 5'10" and 130 lbs I bust tires for a living, he is 5'9" and used to be 300+ he works at walmart. When we first started he scouted with me so he got to hunt with me same as stated above. Now he is down to 265 after working at walmart and actually working hard( the first 3 years we hunted he lived with his mom and didn't have a job he had it easy). But he still cannot hang with me, I'm not saying I go out and run and lift weights but I do very well in the mountains, my brother 5'9" 165, my buddy 5'10" 150 and other buddy 6'3" 175 can't keep up with me on my good days. I hunt slow when I need to but if I got somewhere to get to I'm on the move and I don't like zig zaggin I'm a straight up the hill type of guy to get where I'm going. My nick name hunting is the mountain goat. Anyways when my bigger buddy can't keep up he knows his limits and he will speak up thankfully, I don't wanna have to pack him off the mountain. This gives me a chance to set a plan for him to hunt his way on an easier route an me my way on the harder. So I usually set a plan so that we can use each other to where if one of us bumps something we might push them around to each other. Then we set a plan on where were gonna meet up at or a time to check in on the radios or cells if we have service. I get side tracked easily on my hunts following sign or finding a good area I wanna check and he does the same. So we have worked out our way of hunting over the years to split up if we have to but try to make it beneficial to each other. As long as ur partner isn't to proud to admit when he is getting worn out you shouldn't have a problem..... It took my buddy about 2 days hunting before he would admit I was killing him and when he realized I wasn't gonna mock him or kick him off the hunt he was fine with it and always speaks up. Also the more time you spend with them you will see the signs of them gettin tired and that's when you can 1. Bring it up to them and suggest a split up 2. Don't let them know that you know and suggest a split to benefit both ur hunts or 3. Keep going an let him learn. Nowadays if my buddy doesn't speak up I choose 3 but I usually don't have to do that cause he knows that I can tell when he's laboring and says something first. Best way to find someone's limits and for them to learn their own is to push them. Take him on the scouting trip just keep an eye on him. There's plenty of ways to "hide" that you know he's hurting, but you won't have to address it right to him, I've had a lot of experience with this and the first couple years with my buddy was tough but I didn't want to abandon him he had no one else to hunt with, and didn't know the areas like I did. So I did what I could he has a lot to learn still but he's at the point that I let him learn like drinking Mountain Dew on the mountain isn't the best drink, cutie pies aren't great breakfast, and leaving ur boots untied can lead to a lot of slips haha

[twinkieman]

I agree, use your scouting as test runs, for a couple of reasons. First is the physical aspect that a scouting trip, or trips will gain your partner. Secondly, just being in the outdoors, without the sole purpose of harvesting an animal, is still a great time. Most of us on this forum appreciate all that nature has to offer us, and if your partner doesn't have that same appreciation, you have the time and the setting to teach him ALL that nature has to offer. Once he sees just few of the wonders that nature has to offer,his ability to absorb what you are offering him will probably increase.

[Indian Summer]

Calm down Pointy.

Remember that it is more in the mindset than anything. When I read Gypsym's post I thought man... I could never hang with those guys. I'm 5 foot 6 and 190-195. But I'll admit my legs are like a rock and that's my strong point along with my determination. But I have hunted with many a young guy. Tall thin dudes and people who were all about preparation... and ran them into the dirt. Why? Because I know there's an elk at the end of my rainbow. When I am sure of that how could I ever think of giving up right!

Take him scouting and remind him that the more he toughs it out now the better off he will be later. Tell him that the scouting trip is no walk in the park but more of a reality check. Push him hard... but not to his breaking point.

As far as the time when he couldn't keep up... I don't really give much thought to a 1-2 day ordeal. Everyone takes a couple days to work the bugs out and get in stride. The time when you see what you are made of is on about day 3 of an actual hunt. You are acclimated. You know where the top of the hill is instead of looking ahead wondering how the hell much longer you need to hold out. Plus... you have an unpunched elk tag in your pack. That's something you can't simulate on any scouting mission.

I do nothing to prepare for my hunts. I admire the guys who have workout schedules. I am very active and when I work I'm like a machine that won't stop. But that doesn't mean I take the time to change my lifestyle. In my opinion that is next to impossible to do and I wouldn't worry about my partner because he hasn't joined the local gym. We are all busy and have our daily routines. The scouting trip will be very valuable but coaching him verbally so he is mentally prepared is more important.

I've had many newbies ask me how hard will this be? My answer has been the same for many years: "I wouldn't be helping you if I candy coated it. If you haven't been to boot camp or given birth you have never worked as hard as you are about to"

I believe that but again... it doesn't mean you have to be like or hunt like Cam Hanes. I bet my little ass can out hunt him any day of the week and I truly believe that. The reason brings me to my last comment... give your buddy time to learn the area. He will be much more comfortable once he is at home there and you'll find that his limits will be more in line with yours.

If he is dependable he's worth being patient with too by the way. There's a value in that.

[pointysticks]

Thanks. I hesitate to tell you what he can/cannot do.

[ctdad]

Indian Summer, have you ever had a client that could not go on physically which affected their ability to kill an elk?

Last fall, I did a short four day elk hunt in Montana and an old college buddy joined me. In college, this guy was a mountain goat and I hated trying to keep up with him. Since then, he hasn't been active much at all. By the first afternoon, he was cramping up. I went on without him. Start of day 2 and he was done before the sun came up. Cramping and feet issues. I hunted without him but he physically could not hunt b/c his body was not physically prepared. I won't argue that he could or should have been tougher b/c that is an individual thing, but I know he simply could not hunt any longer b/c of a complete lack of physical preparedness.

I doubt I could keep up with you in the mountains, and I don't think a person has to be in "Cameron Hanes" physical condition, but I've seen first hand what can happen when someone is completely unprepared for the mountains.

I think the planned scouting trip is a good test trip for this hunter to experience first hand how the hunt will be physically. Good luck!

[Indian Summer]

Having muscle cramps is nobody's fault and there is nothing you can really do other than down lots of water to try to eliminate them. That is truly a physical issue. But if a guy looks at you and says I can't do this that's different. No such thing as can't try. "I won't" would be more accurate. Everyone on here could keep up with me. I'm no speed racer but the slow and steady type. I see more than the speedsters too.

Here's a little bit of advice: Since changing one's lifestyle is a big deal really.... and when that doesn't happen all summer long they can get down about it... just give it hell the last 2 weeks before you leave. Run on a treadmill literally for an hour or even more at a time at a quick pace basically until you fall off the thing. The cardiovascular exercise will help the acclimation process. Literally beat yourself up as much as you can right up until you leave. It makes a world of difference compared to doing nothing at all. The other thing even though I know it's not always possible is to show up a couple days early and get up to hunting elevation. While you're there hike, set camp, cut wood.... just be active. That will also blow the dust off before the real thing.

Have I ever had clients who's lack of physical ability broke the deal? Heck yeah. But more often than not they didn't die trying but instead gave up saying something like "I don't know about that one. Seems pretty far. Maybe we'll find one in an easer spot" And they passed on even trying to get a shot opportunity. Mindset prevails! I say it all the time.

Last year guiding in Wyoming I put 5 bulls to bed in the morning. Rode a hunter and his buddy to within a half mile. They said "if you want Olympic athlete's we're not your guys" So I set up the spotting scope and said ok then you will sit here and watch what could have been your bull step out of the timber right there. So they did. Talk about regrets when the 6 point led the way. Of course that tripped their trigger so they decided to go back the next day. Think the bulls were there? Nope! So the guy shot a cow, tipped me really well and said he should have listened the day before. Once he got over there he realized that like I said.... you came over 2000 miles so what another half mile. It was an easy hike. All that he needed to do was tell himself why not try.

Don't let hind sight haunt you. Better to try and not get there than to wonder what would have happened if you had decided to go for it. It is standard procedure to push clients to their limit for their own good. Same goes for a rookie partner. The fact is most of them do not realize what they are capable of because they've never pushed that far. I've heard lots of guys say "thanks man, I didn't think I could do that" after I coaxed them a little further to seal the deal. Being a guide often means being a psychologist. So you may find your self counseling a less than fit partner.. or even yourself. I do it all the time. That's what good partners and successful hunters do. Push! But like I said... not to the breaking point. Close though. ha ha

[ctdad]

I agree there is a difference b/n mental and physical. I think the OP is mostly concerned about true physical limitations in this case that could ruin the trip. I think the scouting trip will help determine how much can be expected on the hunt. After my experience last year where my partner could not keep going, I think there is some cause for concern. It changes your experience and in some cases could ruin a hunt when one partner is no longer physically capable of hunting. My partner is a good friend and fully expected me to just leave him and keep hunting, which I did. Some would expect that you both go home, which would really ruin a trip!

That makes me think that maybe you should have a serious conversation about what will happen if he can't keep up physically (or mentally) before you leave.

[Gypsumreaper]

I agree with the mental game being a big part, some guys don't know when to physically quit because their mentality is so good, I'm huge in the mentality part and can keep myself going long after I shouldn't. Can be bad at some points but I'm always ready if I have to stay cause I got to deep. But some other guys might not be ready to spend a night in the woods if their mentality is to strong. So you gotta be mentally strong enough as well to admit when ur physically defeated. But the scouting trips will help immensely both for him seeing what it's like hunting elk, and for you seeing what he can handle.

[Indian Summer]

That makes me think that maybe you should have a serious conversation about what will happen if he can't keep up physically (or mentally) before you leave.

Definitely. Don't let it be the end of a good time. Plan C should be for him to take time off or hunt close to camp but not effect your hunt. As the saying goes... hope for the best but plan for the worst. Good point ctdad

[zpd307]

I have also seen a fit guy quit because he wasn't mentally prepared.....

[pointysticks]

I agree there is a difference b/n mental and physical. I think the OP is mostly concerned about true physical limitations in this case that could ruin the trip. I think the scouting trip will help determine how much can be expected on the hunt. After my experience last year where my partner could not keep going, I think there is some cause for concern. It changes your experience and in some cases could ruin a hunt when one partner is no longer physically capable of hunting. My partner is a good friend and fully expected me to just leave him and keep hunting, which I did. Some would expect that you both go home, which would really ruin a trip!

That makes me think that maybe you should have a serious conversation about what will happen if he can't keep up physically (or mentally) before you leave.

Thanks. Makes perfect sense seeing it typed out.

He's my friend but he is really not in shape. I don't want to see him hurt. Some simple moves while scouting were daunting for him.

I'll keep an eye on him for sure.

[twinkieman]

Most definitely plans, and such should happen before the actual hunt. Doing this can erase a lot of potential problems that can occur during the hunt. There is nothing wrong or bad for having a plan for what to do if another hunter has more physical limitations than you do, we ,all are built differently, and we all are not equal in "mental toughness" or in our wills to be successful. Put all your cards on the table up front.

[zpd307]

essentially we are doing the same thing for this years hunt. by buddy hasn't been able to keep up with me the last two years. there were several reasons why; didn't train, wasn't mentaly in it and didn't want to get into the tough areas where the elk were, drank too much and didn't want to get up, etc... which caused a lot of hard feelings. I wrote him off for this year as just a camp partner, until he told me that he wanted to try and hunt with me. I was hesitant at first, but figured out that he can go where he wants if he cant or doesn't want to keep up. I made sure to tell him that and he understood and agreed. which is still too bad for him because he hasn't tried to learn how to elk hunt in these past three years....

[pointysticks]

We drew the deer tag. We are on!

Time to amp up my own workouts. I'm all over it. I am not wasting this draw.

[jmez]

ctdad is being politically correct. I hunt with him. He'd just leave you where you fell.

[ctdad]

To be clear, I'd leave jmez where he fell. Some of you, I'd wait a while to make sure you were alive.

[zpd307]

[Indian Summer]

lmao, rough crew there. If I were with you guys I might fake dead as soon as you killed something.

As far as fit guys giving up. I've seen it tons of times. Proof that the mind prevails really. Assuming the body attached to it isn't 5 foot tall and 300 lbs. I've had guys out of the military show up in combat boots with knives lashed to their calves etc. crash and burn. I guess combat for them was on level ground at sea level or something. One time I had a Detroit deputy sheriff come with his tiny little wife for their honeymoon. She was bubbly and just nothing but fun. Enjoying every sight and sound. He was a spoiled brat but not an ounce of fat on him. It blew my mind when my guide said that him and her were always having to wait up for her husband. huh??? You never know until you're there.

But make no mistake communication is key. Have a talk with him. Tell him you don't expect him to be superman. You don't mind if he needs breaks or even days off. But you would expect him not to want to head home. He can become a great camp mate if and when the time comes. You'll be glad to see him at the end of the day I bet. As long as you accept him for what he is and tell him so he will probably really appreciate that and lighten up. If he feels like a ball and chain he will be more likely to want to call it quits. I might go as far as to say hey... let's bring some food other than freeze dried and one or two night you can really do it up with some steaks or something. I bet when you get back dinner will be ready and your partner will be smiling knowing that he helped support you and you are as happy to have him there is he is to be there. The mountains can certainly trash a friendship. But they also have a way of bringing harmony to people. Up there the air smells better, food tastes better, and in the end good partners in the mountain become solid friend yearlong. But that advance communication is priceless.

[Blackhorn]

Sounds like you have not only a new hunting partner ,but also a new work out partner. Here's a question...does he know how to workout? It may be difficult to get him to where he needs to be by September, but you might get him close enough so he is not so burdensome. You might also tailor a hunt to him, like putting him on a stand over a wallow or such. To be honest you have a great opportunity to mold and coach this guy to your way of doing things. As long as he is a good student and your a good coach you guys will do fine.

[Indian Summer]

Right on Blackhorn... a plan such as a stand or maybe even a ground blind is an excellent idea. Adapt!

[pointysticks]

Sounds like you have not only a new hunting partner ,but also a new work out partner. Here's a question...does he know how to workout? It may be difficult to get him to where he needs to be by September, but you might get him close enough so he is not so burdensome. You might also tailor a hunt to him, like putting him on a stand over a wallow or such. To be honest you have a great opportunity to mold and coach this guy to your way of doing things. As long as he is a good student and your a good coach you guys will do fine.

Thanks.

[Lefty]

Worried.
How much does a portable heart defibrillator weigh?

forget that,.... Tell him to carry a shovel and you will send the coordinates to his family.

some guys wont understand what is really needed to hunt. Some of who you hunt with you will just have to make your mental adjustment and hunt with in his abilities.

[Indian Summer]

.... and some, many, will need to do it once just to put into perspective what it really takes. No getting around that.

To a certain degree it comes down to goals. I've seen groups come into camp where one guy's idea of fun was killing himself while another, his dad perhaps, thought that being in camp in Montana and a nice view was success.

Ask your partner what his goal is. Tell him what yours is. Then make sure that each doesn't interfere with the other.

[Lefty]

.... and some, many, will need to do it once just to put into perspective what it really takes. No getting around that.
To a certain degree it comes down to goals. I've seen groups come into camp where one guy's idea of fun was killing himself while another, his dad perhaps, thought that being in camp in Montana and a nice view was success. Ask your partner what his goal is. Tell him what yours is. Then make sure that each doesn't interfere with the other.

Dead on

For each of our expectations of the hunt are different. As a kid a group of my dads acquaintances hunted whitetails in Canada. An uncle of an acquaintance tagged along, he mostly tended tot he the camp, to him making one more hunting trip, even just spending time in camp was a success.

While I dont guide goose hunting Ive taken dozens and dozens of guys on their first" successful" goose hunt. Many dont know ( by our standard) what it takes to elk hunt
One hunter, seeing his 22 year-old son kill his first goose on a real goose hunt
A lot of guys a real goose hunt was putting out a big spread and seeing birds
some guys it was getting shots, some it is a limit of birds,
Two different guys the goose hunt was about spending time with a sisters husband
I know my first elk hunt, physically I was prepared, But I had no idea what I was getting into

I know killing a big bull isnt my highest priority

[Gutpile]

Much good advice on this thread. I just wanted to say that your responses do encourage me to be more open to hunting with others. The "bad" experiences that people talk about help me continue to hunt solo for the most part. I wanted to add a story to help balance the bad ending stories many have.

I took a buddy from work archery elk hunting for the first time several years ago. The plan was packing in 2-3 miles and hunting some high basins. This guy is a piece of steak, an ex-MP with lots of muscle and very little fat. I figured he may be a great help packing animals and looked forward to giving that a try. We made it in and camped and i didn't think he looked tired. We hunted the next morning and on our way out we got separated a little. Turned out, he went down a cut that ended up way below and behind our camp. After a couple hours of "where's he at" he came stumbling in to camp exhausted - day 1. He had what anyone would call the look of defeat written on his face. He took a nap and when he woke up he and i both knew he was done. I agreed to walk back out with him and that was that. I continued to hunt another spot, but the duo was over. I know many have had this experience, but what i remember most now is what happened later. The next year, this guy altered his thinking and started running and dropping some weight. He was mentally tougher and could hike better and go further. We hunted the next three years together and every year he was in better shape and able to do more. He helped me with my deer last year when my knee was screaming too - couldn't imagine that from that first outing. I look back on it and know i could've just not hunted with him after the first year. But i'm glad i did, because it's inspiring to see someone get beat up, then get up - regroup - and come at it again. Not everyone will rise to the occassion, but noone will without experiencing it first hand. So keep giving those new guys a chance, you may end up with another story, or find someone that will grow into a valued asset in your hunting camp.

[pointysticks]

^^
Like a lot!

[Indian Summer]

Gutpile... first of all I would say that he didn't give himself time on the first hunt to go through the natural stages of progression. Day 1 is always tough. Day 2 even tougher because you start off beat up. But there comes a point where things start to improve. He never got to that stage of the game.

The other thing which I mentioned above is I'm sure part of the reason for him improving is he became comfortable in the hills, and in that area. There is unquestionably a big difference in knowing for sure from experience how much longer you have to hold out until you top out on a hill. Not knowing is a KILLER. You guys with rookie partners should have them read this thread. There is only one first time. It gets easier after that one. In a way it is like boot camp in the military. You don't start at square one and go up from there. First they beat you down and then then build you back up from there. It is as much your responsibility to help them through that process as it is theirs to stick it out. Sorta like a school teacher: If a student fails, in a way the teacher has failed. Communication!!!

[Gutpile]

IS - i see your point here. Frankly - there wasn't anything left after that first day, i saw that, and knew there would be no progression that first trip. I also appreciate what you're saying as far as a student failing is concerned. Sometimes, you just don't know how prepared someone is or is not. I'm not a terribly impatient guy, so i wasn't going crazy, but i should have done some other hikes to gauge the level here. In retrospect, i would do several things different. I think i was more trying to point out that some people will rise to the occassion if you give them more than one chance. Assuming you think they can rise the next time.....

[Indian Summer]

I hear you brother. I think you took that wrong. The first part was in reference to your post but the second part wasn't. But I really can't see someone just leaving. I'd sooner lay there and enjoy the smell of the mountains no matter how worthless I was. An elk hunt is about more than just hunting. I love those mountains!

[BrentLaBere]

I hear you brother. I think you took that wrong. The first part was in reference to your post but the second part wasn't. But I really can't see someone just leaving. I'd sooner lay there and enjoy the smell of the mountains no matter how worthless I was. An elk hunt is about more than just hunting. I love those mountains!

X10, and thats why I am not hesitating to shoot the first legal elk this year. I adjusted my dreams to sitting next to a mountain stream with a 6 pack and a fire. Waiting for my elk to get packaged up at the butcher before hauling it home. Little time to do some fishing and shoot some of those tasty mountain grouse. I passed up way too many last year.
I have found it to be difficult to find someone to join me on a hunt like this. I would have to adjust my hunt strategy altogether to accommodate someone that's on the fence about it.
When I talk about the adventure and being away from everything, that will scare most people. There are a lot of people that like the idea of the mountains and wildlife. But they like seeing it in Yellowstone national park and not outside your tent at night. A lot of people have a hard time letting go of TV and Cell phones for a week or more....I don't think I will ever hunt with that type. The guys you are trying to hunt with have a passion for the outdoors. You may be showing them a new passion that they can mold and hunt their own way, not necessarily yours. But what you are doing is great IMO. Opening someones eyes to this sport and the outdoors takes dedication. Because you are now concerned for more than just yourself. Keep it up guys and hopefully you are sharing this awesome lifestyle with someone that will appreciate it.

[pointysticks]

Houston. We may have a problem.

[twinkieman]

Houston. We may have a problem.

That's not what we all had hoped for you!

[Indian Summer]

What's up Pointy??? I say have him read this thread!

[pointysticks]

We had a blast. The hike up was about five miles total. Maybe four. But it was a steep one. It took us five hours. My bud was gassed. He made it! But scouting was out of the question. He was done. Coming down was obviously easier but he was totally crushed.

I think we will chase the easier herd down lower from a truck camp.

Oh up high, a group of hikers which included several European girls camped nearby. They were in bikinis in the lake. This old Japanese guy was trout fishing near them. 72 years old. He day hiked up there! I asked him if the dancing babes messed up the fish. He said, yup. But it's worth it! Haha. He was a cool dude. I did get to gut a few fish for the ladies. The brought butter!

Those girls built the biggest campfire in a fire restricted area. They looked like a fun group.

[Indian Summer]

How do you know they were European? Swedish bikini team sign? lol

Did you tell them your name is Pointystick?

Need a new scouting partner????

[pointysticks]

I talked to them.

[Mikeha33]

Can I get some GPS coord's of that lake please???

[ctdad]

I often tell my wife that my hobby could be chasing young coeds at the bar so she should be glad I'm chasing elk in the mtns. I don't think I'll show her this thread. Although she has pointed out I'm much less likely to be successful with coeds than elk!

[pointysticks]

Haha.

You know what was amazing? How fresh and clean they looked. I looked like a hammered turd. Dirty, wrinkled, sunburned. I was talking to this lady and she was clean. Her clothes looked pressed.

The one in the bikini. I kept my eyes at her eye level. Hate to be bear sprayed. Hehe.

Honestly. I'm pretty respectful. I found the lady changing into her suit in the trees. I quickly faced away and yelled, "sorry". She got decent and said, w German accent, " no big deal, well never see each other again anyways." She was pretty nice and confident.

[Indian Summer]

Oh Lord! Count me in Mikeha33. lol

Pointy did you tell them you usually look better but you just carried your partner up the mountain?