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The Ethical Shot

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The Ethical Shot

Postby Swede » 10 26, 2017 •  [Post 1]

Roosiebull has got me to thinking. I don't like thinking much as I have wanted to keep my brain in mint condition and donate to some poor soul when the Lord calls me home. Never-the-less Roosie has me considering how ethical are we in our shot selection.

"is it fair or worth it to use a live elk as a test median? it just seems way too risky to try on a big live animal...yes, I realize that's my opinion". Roosiebull Humm?

How often do I shoot at an animal and it is not a test? Are my bow and my arrow fully ready? Is my range estimate accurate enough, or did I get a positive measurement? Am I practiced and totally prepared? What happens if the animal suddenly moves? Did I see everything that could interfere? What other factors have I missed?

I know I have taken a few shots some would pass on, and I have passed on shots others would take. The two cases I can remember where I took a shot, I think others would have passed on resulted in dead elk. One did not leave the spot it was standing on when hit, and the other fell over and piled up about 60 yards away. What I am saying is that my risky shots were not a hail Mary. I thought about them before I decided.
I have missed and I have wounded game too. Those shots I did not consider "high risk".
My take is that any miss could have been a wounded animal. After all the difference between a clean miss and a wound is luck. We did not hit what we intended. Some shots are riskier than others, but who decides?
Years ago I read Chuck Adams' standard for elk shooting distance. He said we should be able to hit a pie plate (9 inch) at our maximum range nine out of ten times. Is that good enough? After all we are practicing in a controlled situation with a stationary target. What happens with that tenth arrow?

After considering Roosie's question, I have come up with an answer. I in no way want to encourage any high risk shooting, but my answer is limited yes. It is all a test and the target animal is the median. I will just minimize the risk as I think through the situation in front of me. Dang, there I am thinking again. :D
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Re: The Ethical Shot

Postby Elkhntr08 » 10 26, 2017 •  [Post 2]

Every time we go out it's trial and error. Very little goes as planned. We can only do our very best to overcome the obstacles, get as close as you can and make the best shot you can. We owe it to our game to do that. But, we are our own worst enemy. We buy new broadheads because a friend said they're great. When you release that arrow, you hope for the best, based on the best information available to us. The more we shoot and hunt, the older we get, the better decisions we should make.
Hunting is not nor ever will be a slam dunk. If it was, what's the point?
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Re: The Ethical Shot

Postby Elkduds » 10 27, 2017 •  [Post 3]

My first consideration in decision to shoot is, "Will this shot kill the animal fast," closely followed by "if something goes wrong, what happens to the animal?" I have no interest in wounding/losing game, so I pass on shots others might consider or take. I watched a guy send 7 shots @ a bull that was 600ish yards away, w a 270. It finally fell over. He danced and hollered like he was a sniper/hero/hunting god. I think he was a tool.

I follow up every shot by going to where the animal was and determining what kind of hit or miss. I have read several internet posts this fall in which the author was, "sure it was a clean miss," w no description of going to the spot and really finding out. Then they are off shooting @ another animal. If you have ever found dead or wounded game shot by someone else as I have, this really hits home. It is the first sign of a slob hunter.
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Re: The Ethical Shot

Postby Roosiebull » 10 27, 2017 •  [Post 4]

I do agree the animal is always a test median, because there are NO absolutes. 2017 has humbled me, and likely has me thinking more about this too. I shot a lion with a rifle at 37yds, didn't find it for 5 days....then I made a poor shot on my bull with the easiest shot I have ever got on one.

I think prior to this year, I thought it was highly unlikely I would ever lose a big game animal, I have always been tentative in shot selection, and have never cared about passing a shot I didn't like. I don't get the desperation feeling in the woods. a couple years ago I called in a 4 point bull in the last few minutes of first season, he was 54 yds and broadside. I want to stick to my 45yds under perfect conditions or less, even though I could make a good shot every shot at 55yds on a target at home, I didn't take that shot, even though I knew I had the ability to put my arrow where my pin was holding....what if I did, and he took a step? that would have wasted all of my effort that whole season.

earlier that season I had a big heavy black horned 5 pt at full draw, 21 yds, only time I drew my bow that season. we had a stand off, and he was quartering to, I felt like I could kill him, but it was an angle I have never considered, and had no plan on where I should place the arrow....I didn't shoot, shooting would have been desperation.

that year I hunted late cow season for the first time In 10 yrs, after lots of frustrating failed stalks on elk that have been ran for 2 weeks by rifle hunters, I stood undetected with 3 cows in the 25yd range, I picked the smallest one of the 3 and placed a perfect arrow in her. she hopped about 2 steps at the shot, looked around a bit, and fell over dead, hooves in the air, maybe went 2 yds, it felt good, it was the 25th day chasing elk for me that year.

I think desperation leads to more wounded elk than anything else, I try not to take any shots I may later consider desperate. I know if I hunt enough, I will get an easy shot at an elk, with a very good angle that is tried and true. I am not willing to reinvent the wheel of shot placement on elk, people have historically tried everything, so the shots that aren't considered good or ethical....there is likely a reason for it.

I know at the end of the day, it's up to us as individuals to decide what shots to take. I would rather make a perfect shot on a spike than a bad shot on a 300" bull, so that makes it easy for me, I don't need to take risky or unproven shots. I have tracked a bunch of elk, with all different shot placements, anyone who knows me, knows they can call me anytime, if i'm in town, I will always help someone track or pack.

though I may not be old and wise, the sheer number of days I spend in the woods each year has given me lots of exposure to many scenarios, both mine and others. I know the feeling of feeling helpless on a bloodtrail (or lack of one) and taking unproven shots that I feel are risky are not worth that feeling to me, at all.

I will keep grinding away waiting for an easy shot, and if it doesn't ever materialize, that's a lot easier to live with than sticking one and not finding it, I have never had regret of a shot I didn't take.
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Re: The Ethical Shot

Postby Swede » 10 27, 2017 •  [Post 5]

Roosie, I think your are right on. We all have our own sense of what is right and doable. I too refrain from what I consider high risk shots. I have seen elk stand broadside just a little beyond my comfort range. I pray they will come closer. Sometimes they do, and sometimes they don't.
You said desperation leads to more wounded elk than anything else. Desperation would factor in if I was contemplating going hungry, so I tend to disagree a little on the desperation angle. I think it is greed, and its kin that tells the inner person they will be considered a big shot if they have something commendable to show for their hunt. I give little credence to lack of skill, but it can factor in. So can marginal equipment. Almost all of us have more equipment than we need.
Does being desperate include taking a less than desired animal the last week? One that we might have passed on the first few days.
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Re: The Ethical Shot

Postby Roosiebull » 10 27, 2017 •  [Post 6]

Swede wrote:Does being desperate include taking a less than desired animal the last week? One that we might have passed on the first few days.

not to me, I would call that natural progression of the hunt. the only reason I may pass game is to extend my season.
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Re: The Ethical Shot

Postby Swede » 10 27, 2017 •  [Post 7]

I really don't think I am being desperate either as I planned to hold out for only a few days. There is a point where we commonly go to plan B. To me that is not desperation.
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Re: The Ethical Shot

Postby Roosiebull » 02 06, 2018 •  [Post 8]

Swede wrote:so I tend to disagree a little on the desperation angle. I think it is greed, and its kin that tells the inner person they will be considered a big shot if they have something commendable to show for their hunt..

I agree, i think your wording is better than mine was, makes perfect sense in the context
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Re: The Ethical Shot

Postby scubohuntr » 02 06, 2018 •  [Post 9]

Elkduds wrote:I follow up every shot by going to where the animal was and determining what kind of hit or miss. I have read several internet posts this fall in which the author was, "sure it was a clean miss," w no description of going to the spot and really finding out. Then they are off shooting @ another animal. If you have ever found dead or wounded game shot by someone else as I have, this really hits home. It is the first sign of a slob hunter.

When I take a shot, I'm done hunting for the day. It has now become a tracking day. I take a solid GPS reading at the spot I shot from (with a compass vector to the animal), the spot the critter was standing, and every blood or hair spot I find. Unless I can find absolutely clear evidence that I missed clean, I have no problem with spending the rest of the day on my hands and knees looking for a trace of blood. If it's a late afternoon shot, I'll burn up a lot of Coleman fuel tracking in the dark (probably not in grizzly country) and come back in the morning if needed. When I shoot, I don't shoot to miss- I assume I hit where I aimed. Sometimes the evidence points a different direction, but that animal is dead until proven missed beyond a reasonable doubt. I shoot up a lot of ammo in the off season in order to only need to shoot once during the season.
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Re: The Ethical Shot

Postby Lefty » 02 06, 2018 •  [Post 10]

When I pull the trigger I expect a dead animal I don't hope to have a dead animal
( but believe me I still dont make the shot :oops:
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Re: The Ethical Shot

Postby Roosiebull » 02 06, 2018 •  [Post 11]

Lefty wrote:When I pull the trigger I expect a dead animal I don't hope to have a dead animal
( but believe me I still dont make the shot :oops:

Me too, I figure if I shoot, my season is over.... I have been proven wrong a few times though :?

Just this past season I missed a small bull point blank, a little branch sent my arrow high. I knew I missed, but still treated it like a hit, and a bit later, I watched them all walk by me (including the one I missed) and the big one I ended up killing a week later, then went and tracked, after coming up empty tracking, I went and found my arrow, which is lucky around here, but I hit a tree, so I was able to find my clean arrow. I hate missing, pretty bad shot missing a whole elk!
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