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Over Calling - Good or Not ?

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Over Calling - Good or Not ?

Postby JohnFitzgerald » 10 07, 2013 •  [Post 1]

Is there such a thing as over calling? I've always had the thought that over calling is a myth. For me, wrong sound and/or calling from a bad spot are the key factors for hang ups. Can you call too much? For me the answer is no. What is everyone's opinion on this and what defines over calling?
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Re: Over Calling - Good or Not ?

Postby cnelk » 10 07, 2013 •  [Post 2]

Define calling.

Bugling only?
Cow calling only?
Both?
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Re: Over Calling - Good or Not ?

Postby JohnFitzgerald » 10 07, 2013 •  [Post 3]

Any of the above. :-). I've heard the term over calling used in any of the contexts.
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Re: Over Calling - Good or Not ?

Postby flystrait » 10 07, 2013 •  [Post 4]

I don't believe you can over call. I do believe that a bad setup will cause hang ups but most guys blame it on the calling or over calling. It does not matter bugle vs cow calls or both combined. I have heard elk call far more than I could if I did it non stop
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Re: Over Calling - Good or Not ?

Postby cnelk » 10 07, 2013 •  [Post 5]

I do believe that over calling can take place. More so than not.

I mean really, how often does a bull really bugle?
About every 4-6 minutes typically in my experiences

How often does a cow give a cow call?
NOT VERY OFTEN!
You will hear a herd that calls back and forth more than a cow or two.
Or you can hear a lost calf often.

Over calling may work some days and not others. But you are relying on the elk's curiosity a lot when using it.

Sometimes I throw the whole kitchen sink at them and that brings them in.
The next day, a cow call makes them turn the other way
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Re: Over Calling - Good or Not ?

Postby Swede » 10 07, 2013 •  [Post 6]

I strongly believe areas get over called and people over call. Of coarse a part of the problem comes from making poor or inappropriate calls. The over calling situation is likely exacerbated by poor calling or calling at the wrong moment. I am seeing elk run off when a good caller makes a non-threatening "location bugle". The elk are over called and educated.
It is also in part over calling to be constantly on the move, either cow calling or bugling, and when the elk comes in they become instantly aware the call came from a human. It is over calling to blow your horn when stealth and patience will serve you better. My concern is that we have promoted calling as the universal answer for all elk hunting situations. It is often the wrong answer.
Would we classify it as over calling when a hunter stops his ATV and bugles from the seat while the engine idles? I would, though I admit it is also poor calling. How about the fellows who jump out of their pickup and start bugling at a bull I was working, just when we came near an open road? It might be over calling slightly when 5-6 guys are spread out, about 100 yards apart apiece across a drainage, constantly cow calling and bugling as they descend to the bottom of the drainage. It looked like a drive situation with no animals to drive.
I believe it is over calling to keep on bugling as you move in on an elk. The elk can pinpoint your location. Often in those situations it is better to move in as close as possible after you locate the elk. It is often over calling for the shooter to be calling when he or she has a calling partner who is trying to get you and the bull close, so you can make a shot. It is especially troubling when you blow your set up and educate another elk, or herd of elk. I am sure I could come up with some more over calling examples, but here are some examples of what I refer to as "over calling"..
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Re: Over Calling - Good or Not ?

Postby >>>---WW----> » 10 08, 2013 •  [Post 7]

I think I'm in the same age bracket as Swede if not a little older. And both of us were out there killing elk before a lot of the rest of you were wearing diapers. One of the first lessons I learned was, "Do what the elk are doing"! So I ask you, when is the last time you heard elk over call??

When did you hear a bull go non stop ballistic? Or when was the last time you heard a cow mew more than a time or two unless the herd was on the move or they were trying to keep track of each other on a dark nite or maybe a lost calf looking for mama? It just doesn't happen all that much!

I may be stepping on a few toes here. But over calling is the same as calling yourself a Dude, Green Horn, or Beginner. And the elk have learned to pick up on it real quick.

Have you ever heard the saying, "Well ! I think the elk are getting bugle shy". Ever wonder why? It's probably because ever Tom, Dick, and Harry are out there educating elk by over calling.

I could go on and on. But the more I type, the more POed I get. Just how in the heck could anyone ever think that over calling is good. It is beyond me. So go on out there and squeeze that Hoochie Mama to death!
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Re: Over Calling - Good or Not ?

Postby BRazz » 10 08, 2013 •  [Post 8]

>>>---WW----> wrote:Have you ever heard the saying, "Well ! I think the elk are getting bugle shy". Ever wonder why? It's probably because ever Tom, Dick, and Harry are out there educating elk by over calling.


WW: Agreed. I have hunted enough in both heavily pressured and relatively unpressured areas to witness elk respond poorly to being overcalled. I also wonder whether this is the elks' response to not just calling, but also the smells and other disturbances we leave around their territory. Also, oscillations in rut intensity can make them change from noisy to silent, even without pressure or calling.

My aim is to mimic the elk - if they're hot, I call much more. If they aren't, I try stealth mode (but occasionally due to lack of better options, I'll see if anybody is interested in some unprecedented racket - usually they aren't).
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Re: Over Calling - Good or Not ?

Postby WapitiTalk1 » 10 08, 2013 •  [Post 9]

I'd say over tooting your horn (so to speak) when not "warranted by the situation" may be classified as over calling, or, unnecessary calling. Depends on the situation IMO. When I'm hunting solo, I'll make fewer elk noises than I do when calling for somebody else (more stealth after locating the bull, less calling so as not to completely pinpoint my location as I move forward). When calling for a buddy, or buddies, I oftentimes get in close (70ish yards) and carry on a meaningfull conversation with the bull using a multitude of elk noises including challenges, excited cow sounds, brush raking, stomping, pants, groans, etc. I keep bullwinkle interested (or PO'ed) as the shooter(s) move in close for a proper angled shot. If the bull is vocal and actively responsive to my presence/calls, so am I for the most part. A less vocal bull? I'm quieter also but still feel certain sounds are necessary to hold his interest. Just my thoughts. I agree that there are hunters that overcall when calling is not called for (if that makes any sense at all).. ;)
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Re: Over Calling - Good or Not ?

Postby Trophyhill » 10 08, 2013 •  [Post 10]

Phantom16 wrote:I'd say over tooting your horn (so to speak) when not "warranted by the situation" may be classified as over calling, or, unnecessary calling. Depends on the situation IMO. When I'm hunting solo, I'll make fewer elk noises than I do when calling for somebody else (more stealth after locating the bull, less calling so as not to completely pinpoint my location as I move forward). When calling for a buddy, or buddies, I oftentimes get in close (70ish yards) and carry on a meaningfull conversation with the bull using a multitude of elk noises including challenges, excited cow sounds, brush raking, stomping, pants, groans, etc. I keep bullwinkle interested (or PO'ed) as the shooter(s) move in close for a proper angled shot. If the bull is vocal and actively responsive to my presence/calls, so am I for the most part. A less vocal bull? I'm quieter also but still feel certain sounds are necessary to hold his interest. Just my thoughts. I agree that there are hunters that overcall when calling is not called for (if that makes any sense at all).. ;)


agreed
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Re: Over Calling - Good or Not ?

Postby twinkieman » 10 08, 2013 •  [Post 11]

I would have to say that ,Yes you can over call. I think that we all would agree that everyday, and every elk are different. One day elk are bugling like crazy, lots of excited cow talk, in short the elk are extremely vocal. The next day all is quiet, the elk are still in the area, for no apparent reason they just aren't vocal. On the first day I would think that it would be hard to overcall, day two with quiet elk it would be easy to overcall. We have to blend our calling to the elk's mood each time we go out to hunt. I would agree that poor locations also lend to what could be perceived as overcalling, Swede gave an example of bugling from a road, many hunters bugle from roads, and a lot of them all pick the same spots to bugle from, and I do believe that this makes elk more wary. Just a few of my thoughts on the subject.
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Re: Over Calling - Good or Not ?

Postby Swede » 10 08, 2013 •  [Post 12]

Mr. WW Sir: Please let me humbly disagree with you. I believe I am a much younger man than yourself, and at just 66 years old, an upstart in the elk hunting game. That said, I agree we were both elk hunting, when many "Elknuts" were, as you said, still wearing three cornered pants. lol
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Re: Over Calling - Good or Not ?

Postby Swede » 10 08, 2013 •  [Post 13]

I just finished disagreeing with WW, so let me start with twinkleman. You can over call on any day. There is a great difference between aggressive calling and indiscriminate calling. There is a great difference between purposeful calling and calling that is just tooting and even betrays you. To effectively call on a day elk are vocal, it is good to know the kind of bull bugling, you are wanting to work, and why he is bugling. If you ever get that figured out really well please give me a PM. I still mess up too often.
This year I thought I was calling a satellite, but it turned out to be a herd bull that took off and left me just standing. I was too soon totally alone out there, and it did not matter any more how much, or what call I used. Maybe was the situation where I could not "over call". The game was over and so was my season.
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Re: Over Calling - Good or Not ?

Postby JohnFitzgerald » 10 08, 2013 •  [Post 14]

Yes, I've heard bulls just non stop bugle. Too, sometimes the cows just will not shut up. If we stop and think, is it really over calling that makes bulls shy or is it wrong sounds/calling from a bad spot? Many of the examples give on this thread are just such a case.

Over calling.........inexperienced calling?

p.s. Dang Swede! Your old enough to be my.......older brother! ;)
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Re: Over Calling - Good or Not ?

Postby ElkNut1 » 10 09, 2013 •  [Post 15]

Calling at the wrong spot or time as when a bull is very close is attributed to more hangups & lost elk encounters than calling what some may feel is too much. There are certain sequences used that require a lot of calling, breeding sequence, cold calling sequence, advertising a new bull in an area sequence, etc. Some here may have come across hunters using one of these sequences & not knowing it so attribute such calling as over-calling. Then you have ones that do not call enough! (grin)

Sure anything can be Over-Called, but not all repetitious calling is over-calling!

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