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Our Elk Are Different Than Your Elk!

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Our Elk Are Different Than Your Elk!

Postby ElkNut1 » 06 17, 2014 •  [Post 1]

I've seen this statement written countless times here on this Site as well as others. What is it than makes ones elk different in the areas you hunt? I believe some feel it relates mostly to the calling of elk! Thing is are they really different? I feel they are not. It does not matter where you hunt, elk are elk. If you hunt high pressured areas regardless of the state hunted you will find less vocal elk. Hunt less pressured areas & you will find elk more vocal as long as you are in their vicinity, timing of rut is also critical.

What are your thoughts & what makes you feel other than what's mentioned why hunting your hunting areas require a different hunting strategy that may be foreign to another? Thanks.

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Re: Our Elk Are Different Than Your Elk!

Postby twinkieman » 06 17, 2014 •  [Post 2]

As far as vocal or non vocal elk are concerned, in my humble opinion, elk are not call shy, they are wrong call shy. I've heard this several times in the elk woods where I hunt. A bull throws out , what I believe toot to a bull that wanted be a location bugle, and a hunter answers from a distance of at least 400 yds with a bugle with hard grunts. No response back from the bull. A short time of 30 seconds or so, and the hunter once again bugles, and again follows with a series of hard grunts. The real bull does not respond, now he is non vocal. I moved to the area I first heard the real bull, gave a series of lost cow calls, and the bull responded. not too long after, once again, a piercing bugle with grunts is heard, once again no response. At this time I had a visual on the "real bull", I followed or dogged the bull, eventually watching him bed. Until about 11:00 am, bugles with grunts could be heard from different locations. I stayed where I could observe the bull until late afternoon, moved in, called with cow calls, and got into a bad situation when thermals switched, I then backed out.
My point is even with hunters in the area the bull would talk, just not to another "bull", and particularly a bull that wanted to kick his tail. I believe that pressure can and does change what the elk in an area will do, and that bad choices of what elk call to give will shut them up.
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Re: Our Elk Are Different Than Your Elk!

Postby tdiesel » 06 17, 2014 •  [Post 3]

I agree elk are elk but I believe what most deep down really are saying is that it might not be the most effective way to hunt the elk for that area I find this even within my unit.#1 I hunt a thick timber canyon for years we would take the horses and family in on labor day to hear the elk bugle noon 2:00 in the afternoon didn't matter the elk were bugling the wind swirls constantly so it is hard to get elk killed but calling sure gives alot of thrills and sucess in that area.#2 in another portion of the area really open sure you could call but cover is kinda sparse I find in this area ambushing(literally hinding behind a single bush along a trail) is a better method. Not saying calling wouldn't work but just that it may not be the most effective way to continuously havest elk in that area. we kill elk in both places and the elk are doing what elk do they breed, eat, and water. plus staying alive. Then again others hunt elk in other terrain that is different from these, closer to road, deeper in, wolves, everybody tooting calls, year round hunting. also an im between area elk may come in to some of our calls but hardly ever hear one make a noise they sneak in and peek at ya the elk aren't vocal until night and yes alot of hunters don't hear them cause they are in the camper or leaving early to make it to the nearest steak house for a meal and cold one. thats some of my thoughts anyhow
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Re: Our Elk Are Different Than Your Elk!

Postby Lefty » 06 17, 2014 •  [Post 4]

Most of what makes our elk different is where they live, What is there habitat and what other influences exist.
While elk are still elk, where they live is different, and often what impacts them is different
I know of one bull that kept a small bunch of cows year around All except deep snow they seemed to mostly stay in about a 300 acre thicket. Thick nasty undergrowth right next to a US highway with US Forest service roads on two other sides. They lived within earshot of campers and a busy highway. A little bit of elevation and they were "secluded

Ive mentioned this before the three big bulls that lived in a river bottom near a fishing lodge, it looked more like moose habitat, What an ideal early season stalking situation
A buddy of mine hunts the coastal range in Oregon, The thick nasty of a rainforest. Like clockwork the elk walk certain trails at certain times, he is high in a tree shooting down , His elk season for over twenty years generally a one day hunt
I hunt the desert. the experts that hunt the same area are all unique . Glass in the morning, find and follow then put a stalk on them. While they own calls none of the good hunters Ive run into dont use bugles. Just cow call to stop or reposition an elk
Where I killed my first bull( rifle) in Montana the archery hunters tend to get into the thick fallen lodge pole and call all day long
Where we bear hunt, the main reason other than too many people I dont elk hunt there, The winds are constantly changing. Ive watched honey burns, How the heck do you get close to anything with winds like that?
Here in Pocatello a trail head on the edge of town is home to quite a few elk, Surrounded with recreationist , hikers cyclers and ATV's. living in the thick scrub on the edge of town and few people knew the elk live right there
Would I hunt elk in British Columbia the same as New Mexico elk, or Kentucky elk.. !!!!
I think the specific habitat is what make elk different
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Re: Our Elk Are Different Than Your Elk!

Postby Indian Summer » 06 17, 2014 •  [Post 5]

I'd say that like a lot of things we might tend to overthink this subject. My take on lots of things whether it's elk, dogs, turkeys etc. is that it's not necessarily the area that makes the difference. Like people all animals are individuals. I've seen young bulls with big bodies and large antlered mature one that were average size at best. Each has their own personality to a degree too. In the same area you will find elk that are tight lipped and ones that can't seem to keep their mouths shut responding over and over to every call you throw at them. Things can change from day to day too in any particular area.

I will say that in areas I hunt that are basically timbered with little to no openings elk don't key on open area food sources like the ones I hunt where it is 50% open. The elk in the more open areas recognize meadows as a main food source. They move toward them in the evening and aren't afraid to stay there in daylight hours for awhile each morning. In timber areas that elk that are in the openings at first light seem to run for cover much quicker when the sun comes up.

I do know of areas where the elk bugle more often and later into the year. I'm not sure why but one thing is for sure... I like to hunt there!
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Re: Our Elk Are Different Than Your Elk!

Postby Swede » 06 17, 2014 •  [Post 6]

ElkNut1 wrote:If you hunt high pressured areas regardless of the state hunted you will find less vocal elk.
I agree 100% with this statement, but at the same time it is obvious that you need to adapt your hunting style if you are hunting high pressured areas. Are high pressure elk different than elk that rarely see or hear a hunter? I don't think they are different in many ways, but elk adapt to the environment they live in. Take two dogs out of a litter. One is a kid's pet and the other is a trained seeing eye guide. The dogs are biologically the same, but one is a beloved play mate and the other a highly valued essential part of life. Still another dog from the same litter could become a mean nuisance. Maybe animals have a lot in common with people.
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Re: Our Elk Are Different Than Your Elk!

Postby Wapitibob » 06 17, 2014 •  [Post 7]

I've made that statement many times and seen it many times. Elk in NM and AZ act differently than Elk in eastern OR. Not as noticeable in calling but real evident when moving in or bumping them. They just don't care very much. When bumped they move off but not nearly as hard charging nor nearly as far. From what I've seen over the years I believe it has to do with more human interaction thru the year vs what we have here.
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Re: Our Elk Are Different Than Your Elk!

Postby Trophyhill » 06 17, 2014 •  [Post 8]

ElkNut1 wrote:I've seen this statement written countless times here on this Site as well as others. What is it than makes ones elk different in the areas you hunt? I believe some feel it relates mostly to the calling of elk! Thing is are they really different? I feel they are not. It does not matter where you hunt, elk are elk. If you hunt high pressured areas regardless of the state hunted you will find less vocal elk. Hunt less pressured areas & you will find elk more vocal as long as you are in their vicinity, timing of rut is also critical.

What are your thoughts & what makes you feel other than what's mentioned why hunting your hunting areas require a different hunting strategy that may be foreign to another? Thanks.

ElkNut1


My thoughts are, I agree with this. I've hunted 6 different units in 2 states using similar methods (still learning) and 5 elk have found their way to my freezer.
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Re: Our Elk Are Different Than Your Elk!

Postby WapitiTalk1 » 06 17, 2014 •  [Post 9]

I asked Larry D Jones a very similar question in 88 at one of those sportsman shows, right when I first came back into the Army at Ft. Lewis to finish my career. After a 10 minute wait in line, and, several eye rolls from Mrs. Phantom, I asked Larry if he thought there was any difference between the vocalization, habits, etc., between the various states Rocky Mountain elk and the coastal Roosevelt elk. He said, "yah, the coastal Roosey's tracks are different". I fell right into that trap and said "how so"? He replied with.....well, the coastal Rooseys wear rubber boots :D He went on to say that no, they "all" react accordingly to hunting pressure, overcalling, poor calling, predators, browse availability, fires, droughts, terrain, weather, etc., etc., in a manner necessary to perpetuate their individual lives, and ultimately, their species. I think he felt bad about teasing me about the rubber booted elk and gave me a nice signed picture. A very nice gesture after he told me Roosey's wear galoshes ;)

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Re: Our Elk Are Different Than Your Elk!

Postby BrentLaBere » 06 18, 2014 •  [Post 10]

RJ, awesome picture!
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Re: Our Elk Are Different Than Your Elk!

Postby ElkNut1 » 06 18, 2014 •  [Post 11]

Yes, love the photo & what a great guy Larry is! Very nice!

When all is considered by all comments here you can see that the "difference" in elk no matter the area isn't the "elk themselves" it's the pressure put upon them so they must adapt for their survival, in other words they get educated in high pressure areas! We too must then adapt to the hunting conditions that we are presented with, this is where versatility comes in & success can still be the result! Elk in pressured areas are callable but this doesn't mean you throw caution to the wind & be a fool with your calling, timing & use of sounds at the right time are essential here. We aren't hunting TV elk here! (grin) On the other hand those that hunt areas where elk see few to no humans will notice elk are more callable & approachable, this is why so many are considering bivy hunting these days, it's not because they enjoy camping so much it's to get to those un-pressured elk & hunt elk that can get a few years on them & grow some respectable antlers!

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Our Elk Are Different Than Your Elk!

Postby slim9300 » 06 18, 2014 •  [Post 12]

Wapitibob wrote:I've made that statement many times and seen it many times. Elk in NM and AZ act differently than Elk in eastern OR. Not as noticeable in calling but real evident when moving in or bumping them. They just don't care very much. When bumped they move off but not nearly as hard charging nor nearly as far. From what I've seen over the years I believe it has to do with more human interaction thru the year vs what we have here.


Very good thread topic Paul! In terms of elk behavior to calling, I'm certainly on board for the most part.

I have experienced this myself. I have watched Eastern MT Rocky Mountain elk run over 3 miles before they stopped after being bumped. The Roosevelts I'm used to hunting in Western WA (over the last 15 years) never seem to run more than a few hundred yards and generally if you give them 15-30 minutes they are fully calmed down. These Roosevelts are heavily pressured animals in OTC units too; they experience much more hunting pressure that any of the Rocky Mountain elk that I have hunted. I have actually tracked down and killed a few late season cows after bumping the herd multiple times. This may have something to do with terrain and environment, but Rocky Mountain elk are much spookier animals in my opinion when bumped.
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Our Elk Are Different Than Your Elk!

Postby slim9300 » 06 18, 2014 •  [Post 13]

Just an experience that I remember from Eastern MT back in 2007. The date was Sept. 20th if I recall correctly...

My dad and I spotted a 350-360" bull bedded alone and facing away at about 80 yards. I tried to talk my dad into letting me sneak in and just kill the bull, but it was a hard stalk. He was bedded on the rim of a coulee (his back to us and the relatively steep rim below him but there was a trail down from where he was) so getting into bow range meant either dropping into the coulee and a point blank shot or coming around from the side. My dad convinced me that a few soft cow calls were in order. (This was pre-Elknut for me!) :) Anyways, I setup on the opposite edge of the coulee concealed by brush at 80 yards, and my pops drops back about 30 yards to call. The wind was perfect. I hear two very good sounding soft cow calls from my dad and watch as that bull immediately jumps from his bed and RUNS at full speed the other direction without a single look toward the 'elk.'

I am not insinuating that this encounter means anything with regard to calling elk, but I still think about it once in awhile. :)
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Re: Our Elk Are Different Than Your Elk!

Postby Trophyhill » 06 18, 2014 •  [Post 14]

slim9300 wrote:Just an experience that I remember from Eastern MT back in 2007. The date was Sept. 20th if I recall correctly...

My dad and I spotted a 350-360" bull bedded alone and facing away at about 80 yards. I tried to talk my dad into letting me sneak in and just kill the bull, but it was a hard stalk. He was bedded on the rim of a coulee (his back to us and the relatively steep rim below him but there was a trail down from where he was) so getting into bow range meant either dropping into the coulee and a point blank shot or coming around from the side. My dad convinced me that a few soft cow calls were in order. (This was pre-Elknut for me!) :) Anyways, I setup on the opposite edge of the coulee concealed by brush at 80 yards, and my pops drops back about 30 yards to call. The wind was perfect. I hear two very good sounding soft cow calls from my dad and watch as that bull immediately jumps from his bed and RUNS at full speed the other direction without a single look toward the 'elk.'

I am not insinuating that this encounter means anything with regard to calling elk, but I still think about it once in awhile. :)


Lesson learned? So in hind site of course, if you get into that position again, sneak in and kill him! He had no clue you were there. I bet he was sleeping and you startled him. He may not have even recognized that as a cow sound. Just a thought.
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Re: Our Elk Are Different Than Your Elk!

Postby slim9300 » 06 19, 2014 •  [Post 15]

Trophyhill wrote:
slim9300 wrote:Just an experience that I remember from Eastern MT back in 2007. The date was Sept. 20th if I recall correctly...

My dad and I spotted a 350-360" bull bedded alone and facing away at about 80 yards. I tried to talk my dad into letting me sneak in and just kill the bull, but it was a hard stalk. He was bedded on the rim of a coulee (his back to us and the relatively steep rim below him but there was a trail down from where he was) so getting into bow range meant either dropping into the coulee and a point blank shot or coming around from the side. My dad convinced me that a few soft cow calls were in order. (This was pre-Elknut for me!) :) Anyways, I setup on the opposite edge of the coulee concealed by brush at 80 yards, and my pops drops back about 30 yards to call. The wind was perfect. I hear two very good sounding soft cow calls from my dad and watch as that bull immediately jumps from his bed and RUNS at full speed the other direction without a single look toward the 'elk.'

I am not insinuating that this encounter means anything with regard to calling elk, but I still think about it once in awhile. :)


Lesson learned? So in hind site of course, if you get into that position again, sneak in and kill him! He had no clue you were there. I bet he was sleeping and you startled him. He may not have even recognized that as a cow sound. Just a thought.


No doubt about it in retrospect! :)
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Re: Our Elk Are Different Than Your Elk!

Postby planebow » 06 22, 2014 •  [Post 16]

Sure sounds like the bulls I hunt over there, you can not guess what they will do but most will run off.
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