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Different Area.... Different Elk?

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Different Area.... Different Elk?

Postby Indian Summer » 11 07, 2015 •  [Post 1]

I was reading the thread from Sasquatch asking if people prefer Wyoming or Montana. I thought about a reply but really it got me to thinking about the variables. If I had to pick a certain spot or a certain date in one state or the other the answer could be either one depending on when and where. Also depending on my abilities. Anyone could plan a great hunt in either state.

That got me to thinking about how different the elk themselves are in different places I hunt. In Montana I better know what's going on in the timber. The elk don't spend any time at all in the open meadows. Even though I know places with some really nice mixes of huge and small meadows the elk don't use them because the surrounding area where they mainly live is mostly timbered. Yes there are open areas but they are spotty. But the really big meadows seem to be off limits until they are wintering or staging prior to that. It's almost like they leave it alone as a reserve for when they need it most. Water in the area is everywhere so never a factor in where elk might be found. When wintering the elk are still in some degree of timber even if they are bedded on a sunny slope. It's just their nature.

Glassing is still a tactic for locating but I'm looking at really small openings and burns. In gun season if there is snow I can see swaths of tracks crossing the open areas for a long distance. A great way to get on elk heading to their beds. Still hunting is a must. Sitting still all day and glassing is useless. So if you aren't looking for elk you're wasting time.

Wyoming on the other hand is a whole other ballgame. The elk there will winter in some wide open stuff at times. During open gun season they can still be found feeding in open grassy areas. They rely more on grasses than browse down there as a primary food source. They seem more like the prairie animals they once were. Not only do they seem comfortable being away from the timber to feed but they will stay there for quite awhile after the sun comes up unless of course they are pushed. I've seen them move from bed to feed 3 hours before sundown too. Not the norm in Montana.... where I hunt.

The MT bulls IMO use their ears as much or more than their eyes. I've had decoys up and had elk walk within 30 yards and just not notice. That bull almost has his eyes closed as he zeroes in on where he heard the call come from and what his nose is telling him. In Wyoming a bull will spot a decoy a mile away like he's part antelope which is obviously another prairie dweller! In MT I can slip across openings and get away with it. Last year in Wyoming I can remember taking literally 2 steps out of the timber after glassing to make sure it was safe and being spotted immediately by a huge 5 point bull who was in a long narrow patch of timber between two big meadows in avalanche slides. He was over 3/4 of a mile away but spotted me right away. He moved away from me non stop... in the wide open and crossing through 2 more timberlines.... until he was in the next county. As he walked away for like 10 minutes he kept stopping and looking back over his shoulders directly at me. I swear he looked right between my eyes every time.

So for me sasquatch the answer would likely be Wyoming. But the reason is because my hearing is really bad. I can barely bow hunt in Montana anymore because listening for elk is a useless way to locate them for me. One day I realized I was a spot and ambush bow hunter. I was successful because I was good at glassing and knew my area really really well. I knew all of the perfect spots to glass from and better yet all of the little spots to glass into.

So I gravitated toward more open hunting areas. In Wyoming not only could I see more country but I could actually hear bugles better because they were sounding off from in the open instead of down in some hole in the timber. It worked so much better for me that I could actually get back to bow hunting. Not only could I locate them easier but I could relocate them via ears and eyes while I was making a move. There are still places with north facing slopes that are more timbered. But there are still sizeable openings and the elk use them for sure. There are some nice bulls that don't care to live over where they can't just disappear forever into a large expanse of trees. You can go there and spot those bulls pretty easily feeding early and late. But the challenge is you have to be sneaky to get closer to them. Go around all the openings which isn't always easy and be super careful not to kick rocks downhill or fall. Those elk can see and hear better in the semi open stuff just like we can. It's a 1 step at a time thing. One false move and it can be game over and time to cover more ground.

The other thing worth mentioning about the more open country hunting is you will cover more miles. Open areas might all sound fine and dandy but I'm all over the place looking for elk. To be able to hunt spots A, B, and C.... then maybe relocate to a different area altogether and hunt all of it horses are a must. I can have good hunting without them but they open up more opportunities for me and save my legs for when I really need them. In Montana in general I will cover less actual miles away from camp when I'm hunting for sure.

No matter where you go rule number one is it will never be easy. So while one scenario might sound good to some a different type of terrain and cover might appeal to others. They both have different kinds of challenges. Think about your strengths and weaknesses. Most of all think about your preferred method or style of hunting. Don't forget to think about your partners too. Lots to consider when picking a state and actually there are places in Montana that are just like my Wyoming spots and vice versa. That just happens to be the specific places I hunt. Both states have everything from desert hunting to sage flats and of course big mountains. Both states have opportunities for guaranteed general licenses. And yes elk in different places can behave differently. If I was starting from scratch it would be a flip of the coin. But then I'd research areas that fit me and my partners. That's the important thing.
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Re: Different Area.... Different Elk?

Postby Swede » 11 07, 2015 •  [Post 2]

Indian Summer makes some excellent points here. Elk adapt, and can do it in a relatively short amount of time. Hunting where I go is totally different today than it was just 20 years ago. It is almost like I am hunting a different species. Hunting even a different part of Oregon can change things a lot as far as tactics go. It goes without saying that different seasons, or even different parts of a bow season can make a big difference.
That is why getting to know an area well is a huge part of hunting success. We need to adapt as much as the elk do. Calling techniques can differ significantly. Tree stand placement can vary a huge amount from one unit to another. Glassing can be great in one area and very poor in another. There are some basic principles to follow closely, like watch your scent. There are as many or more techniques and principles that need to be managed to fit the area you hunt. One size does not fit all.
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Re: Different Area.... Different Elk?

Postby Indian Summer » 11 07, 2015 •  [Post 3]

When I was over your way Swede it was all tree stands and ground blinds for the Rosies. It was a lot like whitetail hunting really.
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Re: Different Area.... Different Elk?

Postby Swede » 11 07, 2015 •  [Post 4]

Yes, Rosies are another case in point. They are quite different from their Rocky Mountain cousins. My son wants me to try and get a Roosevelt elk, but I have been reluctant. I would have to start over, to learn where and how to get them. It seems a tree stand along an actively used trail would be great. There is a reason that I titled my book "Tree Stand Hunting Rocky Mountain Elk", instead of just "Tree stand Hunting Elk". I have the Rosies within walking distance of the house. They are a big beautiful animal. They seem to have a travel pattern unique to themselves. Still, I am tempted.
One huge problem is the private land holdings are closed in archery season for fire danger. The public land is heavily hunted. You either know where and how to hunt them, or you are very unlikely to score on one.
Another interesting thing is that Roosevelt elk are the easiest to call early in the archery season.
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Re: Different Area.... Different Elk?

Postby sasquatch » 11 14, 2015 •  [Post 5]

Indian, how much does the deer hunters have an effect on the Wyoming elk as I think I see there rifle season opens early while it's still archery elk? Is there a lot of deer hunters out? Do they seem to interfere etc? Also if one wanted to hunt both he would have to enter two separate draws? one for deer and one for elk?
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Re: Different Area.... Different Elk?

Postby Indian Summer » 11 15, 2015 •  [Post 6]

That depends on where you hunt and when. The deer season opens (where I hunt) September 15th. In one area it's only open for 2 weeks and gun doesn't begin until October 15th so it's not an issue at all. In another area the start of gun season is September 27th so 2 weeks into deer and that deer season is open for over a month. Hunting pressure is more spread out there because the season is so long.

There's no question that wherever you go if it is deer season you'll see a couple more vehicles on the roads. But the people who are doing it right will get on vantage points way up high and glass for deer. The big bucks are higher than the elk. Those guys don't disturb much. Any guided hunters will be doing that for the most part. Then there is the "I'll just take a little stroll from the truck" group of people. They aren't looking for as big of bucks. It's not too hard to put a few miles between you and them.

All in all you can lose everyone with some effort in Wyoming. Bow hunters would see more of an impact from deer hunters than gun hunters.

Yes deer and elk license are separate drawings. Deer is cheaper but not as easy to draw. You'll need at least one point to draw deer anywhere I hunt and in some places 5 points to guarantee it.
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Re: Different Area.... Different Elk?

Postby sasquatch » 11 15, 2015 •  [Post 7]

Thanks, im starting to understand it. I was and am planning on montana next year so far but I did buy a point last year for Wyoming. So idk, im doing more research as I have plenty time to see if I should just try Wyoming instead as if I went there my vacation would also include the some of rifle season so I could bow hunt a few weeks then if need be do a little rifle hunting at the end of my trip. Decisions decisions
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Re: Different Area.... Different Elk?

Postby Dr. Rx » 11 26, 2015 •  [Post 8]

I think it does effect when deer season opens in relation to elk. Even though the deer are at a higher elevation, introducing human scent in the lower elk areas will increase their anxiousness . I saw this first hand this year..Just increasing foot traffic in the elk area going to the deer area made conditions much more difficult. Finally, I find the concept quite odd in Wyoming opening deer rifle while elk archery is going on. It just doesn't make sense and kills the purpose of a safe, peaceful pursuit of archery hunting..at the first sound of the crack of the rifle, the chaos begins.

Why not start rifle deer at the same time as rifle elk? A novel concept

.just my 2 cents

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Re: Different Area.... Different Elk?

Postby Indian Summer » 11 26, 2015 •  [Post 9]

I agree. I used to hunt over in unit 7 near Medicine Bow. The deer season didn't start until October 15th. But on the west side it's different. There's no question it takes pressure off of both the elk and the deer. If hunters could all hunt rifle deer and elk at the same time it would be chaos. Actually you can in lots of places even though deer starts earlier. But the way it is there is good hunting for both and I find that there's not really that much impact from deer hunters. As long as you've done some homework there should be different directions to go to leave any deer hunters behind.
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Re: Different Area.... Different Elk?

Postby Lost Dog » 11 29, 2015 •  [Post 10]

I learned how to hunt elk in Colorado from my dad. We hunted steep terrain covered with pines, quakies and/or oak brush. By the time I graduated from high school I had shot 2 bulls and 2 cows.

Then I moved to Montana to attend the U of M (go Griz). I couldn't not hunt and so I started exploring. I just started looking for country that looked similar to what I was used to. The biggest difference I found was that Montana had lots of pines, few quakies and no oak brush. Another difference was that because of previous logging there were open areas and logging roads which provided access. No one told me or showed me where to go, I just figured elk were elk whether I was in Colorado or Montana.

Opening day found me on a steep hillside covered with both lodgepole pine and ponderosa pine. I didn't think I would be able to see the elk even if they were there. I was heading to an area that had been logged and was more open. Then I smelled them, elk in Montana smelled like Colorado elk. Getting down on my knees I could see through the thick trees better. Fifty yards above me was an elk just standing there. That surprised me and I expected it to run off. It didn't. After what seemed an eternity I saw antlers. Boom! Bull down.

Maybe elk in Montana are not as wild as Colorado elk or maybe I was lucky.....you decide. :D
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Re: Different Area.... Different Elk?

Postby Swede » 11 29, 2015 •  [Post 11]

My son and I were hunting together years ago. We came upon two bucks standing together. The small one was very nervous and ran right away upon seeing us. The larger one saw us too, but just stood and watched. My son nocked and arrow, drew his bow and shot the larger one still just standing. Maybe big deer are dumb. Maybe it was just an odd quirk. You decide. :D
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Re: Different Area.... Different Elk?

Postby Indian Summer » 11 30, 2015 •  [Post 12]

Maybe elk and deer are no different than people. I'm sure we all know a few people who would be lucky to live long enough to be raghorns if they were elk before they got quartered out.
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