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What Should You Do? Scenario 4.

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What Should You Do? Scenario 4.

Postby WapitiTalk1 » 01 23, 2013 •  [Post 1]

It's the last day of your archery elk hunt... September 25, 20??. The night before (after dark) you received a response to your locator bugle above a skid road you'd walked in on approximately 1/4 of a mile. As you walk in before daylight on the last morning of your 7 day hunt, you hear the same bull above you on the side hill of an east/west flowing basin. As it starts to get light and the bugling persists, you've decided you'll move as close to the bull as you can before making a peep. He continues to sound off as you move to within 100 yards of where he's singing. Four, five, seven bugles echo throughout the basin from the same bull and you hear cow mews as you get closer. Nobody seems alarmed..it appears the elk are moving from feed to bed right after daylight hit. The thermals are flowing down steadily down and you smell elk! As you're hunting alone, you throw out a few cow/calf calls and move rapidly up/downwind and toward the elk immediately after you call. As you set up and wait for an indicator, something, anything..... you hear and see movement above you. There is an elk, possibly "the" bull, standing with his head completely covered with Douglas Fir bows less than 30 yards up the slope broadside. It's a bull (3 point or better) area. You draw back, drop the pin in the "V" and let off (you don't touch off the arrow). You're not sure of the target (legal animal) so you do the right thing and let off. Less than seconds later, a very nice, thick beamed 5 point moves away from the fir and walks (not bolts) back uphill to what you assume are his cows. At this point, what do you do? The cover is relatively thick but is littered with elk trails. Do you:

a. Stay put and continue cow calling hoping the bull comes back down?

b. Figure the bull is not leaving his cows again and bust balls (as quietly as possible), planning an intercept route to get a better angle on the herd that you figure is heading to bed?

c. Have a sandwich and enjoy the mountain side scenery, enjoying your last day for the year in the elk woods?

d. Charge uphill into the elk, attempting to scatter them, causing confusion and immediately launch some excited cow calls to try to pull the bull in?

e. Other?

f. Wonder why RJ posts these silly threads every few weeks..

What say you elk hunters?
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Re: What Should You Do? Scenario 4.

Postby elkmtngear » 01 23, 2013 •  [Post 2]

RJ,
Knowing where the cow call came from, this bull came to cautiously investigate the possibility of collecting another one. He didn't see a cow, and decided it was not worth any further investigation, and went back to tend his investments.

If a decoy were planted at the call site, it is possible he would have broke cover offering a better shot opportunity. :idea:

But I realize this about "what should I do now"...so moving forward (and if I were sans-decoy), I think I would take option "B"....because these elk are not spooked at this time, and just going about their business. This gives me the upper hand in an ambush scenario. ;)
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Re: What Should You Do? Scenario 4.

Postby cnelk » 01 23, 2013 •  [Post 3]

E. other

I would move my location to the side and uphill somewhat, but not far.
Find a place with good shooting lanes.
Knock an arrow.
Then grab a branch and rake a tree and stomp my feet.
Listen.
Rake again. Stomp. Then cow call with a different call. Maybe a calf call

Then I would shoot that bull as he came in check me out...
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Re: What Should You Do? Scenario 4.

Postby easeup » 01 23, 2013 •  [Post 4]

another good scenario phantom.....lets play.

you have played out this hunt to the decision point to near perfect playbook to this point.
the elk are not alarmed and by all information above and your presence is unknown. the wind is right and will be for awhile longer.
to your knowledge no other hunter is at the table to force your hand. ( this near same scenario got me a couple years back except he was downhill from me that changed everything).

Option D to me is a last ditch effort when the curtain is closing on the play. I dislike Option A, because it never works for me unless the bull is by himself.
I would like to play a modified plan B. It appears to me I need to move forward and up some more to work them again, if I understand the scene. I want to call him down again but it should be from a little different location. So I want to close the gap and just maybe I can get the shot without another call. If keeps talking as I move; I want to play that first. then once I have crowded him he gets sweet call again to make him think a sweet one drifted too far.

I am all ears to the advice of the forum. please speak.
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Re: What Should You Do? Scenario 4.

Postby >>>---WW----> » 01 23, 2013 •  [Post 5]

OK, I may be changing things up a bit, but here goes. Same situation but I'm figureing it is my last morning to hunt!!!!!!!! So I', going with (e).

(e) I would try to get in as close as possible without being detected and rake the brush real heavy, followed by a threat sequence. This would be a bugle followed by harassed cow sounds and maybe even a few glunks. Remember, this is my last ditch effort on my last morning to hunt. The idea is to make the herd bull or even the satalite bulls think I have peeled a cow out of the herd. This should hopefully make him fighting mad and he should come charging after me. (Notice, I said hopefully) LOL! Anyhow, it has worked for me in the past. If that doesn't work, I'm going with (c)

(c) Have a sandwich and just sit back and thank the Lord for a great hunt, win, loose, or draw. And finally, (f)

(f) Wonder why in the heck R J keeps coming up with this stuff???? But I'm glad he does! LOL!!!
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Re: What Should You Do? Scenario 4.

Postby Swede » 01 23, 2013 •  [Post 6]

I would go with WW on this one. I like the threat, and if that doesn't work have a sandwich. There is nothing wrong with a good sandwich, especially if it has an elk steak in it. RJ, your scenarios may be dumb, but they are real enough and still make me think. I enjoy them and all of the responses.
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Re: What Should You Do? Scenario 4.

Postby ORelksniper » 01 23, 2013 •  [Post 7]

RJ, does your wife know about your disorder? :)

Cnelk, I like your thinking. I'm a big fan of raking, stomping and a few "get over here" chuckles thrown in. I've used the threat on two occasions with herd bulls and their cows. The results were not what I was hoping for. The bulls took their cows and moved to a new zip code. Mmmm, that's not in the playbook. Anyway, in this scenario I would quickly move up the hill closer to the elk while keeping an eye out for the cows. They're most likely the ones that will bust you. Be ready with a nervous grunt just in case.
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Re: What Should You Do? Scenario 4.

Postby foxvalley » 01 23, 2013 •  [Post 8]

Keep em coming RJ,It's a long winter,and this stuff keeps us sharp.

I would go with e.other.
The thermals are coming down,and the elk are heading up to bed.Trying to intercept them might get you winded,and you are "off the elk" as you sidehill around. The bull should be in the back of the herd,so as you sneek up on one of the many silent trails,the first elk that you encounter should be the bull. He should be easy to locate because there is no reason for him to stop bugling at this point. Trying to keep up with a moving herd going uphill might be to much,so I would get up there fast,before I loose them.As much as I would like to see the bull first,I am ready for plan "B" Charge up the hill,scatter the cow or cows that just hawked me,then let out a huge bugle.
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Re: What Should You Do? Scenario 4.

Postby easeup » 01 23, 2013 •  [Post 9]

sniper wrote:
Cnelk, I like your thinking. I'm a big fan of raking, stomping and a few "get over here" chuckles thrown in. I've used the threat on two occasions with herd bulls and their cows. The results were not what I was hoping for. The bulls took their cows and moved to a new zip code. Mmmm, that's not in the playbook. .........................


also my experience and for this reason I dont want to challenge.

what say ye?
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Re: What Should You Do? Scenario 4.

Postby WapitiTalk1 » 01 23, 2013 •  [Post 10]

sniper wrote:RJ, does your wife know about your disorder? :)


Yes Sir.. she has been living with it for 26 years. Imagine her joy when Elknut started up this forum and now I have others who share my same elky disorder to converse with.... :lol: She just shakes her head... :roll:
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Re: What Should You Do? Scenario 4.

Postby ORelksniper » 01 23, 2013 •  [Post 11]

Carry on then, Phantom. I'm liking this stuff.
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Re: What Should You Do? Scenario 4.

Postby otcWill » 01 24, 2013 •  [Post 12]

I actually think you had him!! I would choose E) other. He's at 30 yards!? I'm drawing my bow and standing up for the shot. If he doesn't look, I'll hit him with a nervous grunt and whack him. Agressive bowhunters kill elk! I have made the mistake of not acting fast or capitalizing on a brief opportunity plenty of times!
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Re: What Should You Do? Scenario 4.

Postby foxvalley » 01 24, 2013 •  [Post 13]

otcWill wrote:I actually think you had him!! I would choose E) other. He's at 30 yards!? I'm drawing my bow and standing up for the shot. If he doesn't look, I'll hit him with a nervous grunt and whack him. Agressive bowhunters kill elk! I have made the mistake of not acting fast or capitalizing on a brief opportunity plenty of times!


This was also my first thought,especially when the bull was only there for a few seconds,you would have pulled back and by the time you got settled in you could have identified him as a shooter, and shot him......maybe. But this is RJs thread, and we should play along,besides, that would be way to easy,I don't ever remember elk hunting as easy.LOL. (I do however, like the thought of sitting down,and having a sandwich..... after I kill him.)
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Re: What Should You Do? Scenario 4.

Postby ElkNut1 » 01 24, 2013 •  [Post 14]

Good stuff guys, I'm enjoying all the info & thoughts shared, very cool.

Sniper, we will have to cover the use of The Threat on another topic for anyone else that may have questions about its use & when not to use it. Timing, distance & type bull is very important, too just because a bull has cows does not mean The Threat is in order, this is reserved generally for bulls with cows that are in heat, that's a huge factor! If they are not it's the wrong response & your odds for success drop considerably!

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Re: What Should You Do? Scenario 4.

Postby >>>---WW----> » 01 25, 2013 •  [Post 15]

Funny thing about use of the threat and the three different levels of it. I'd venture to guess that most of us that have been in the elk woods for many years have used verious versions of the threat for years. And there are alot more than just three versions. Probably everyone has his own style. It just took a guy like Elknut to put a name to it. So thanks Paul for giving us all something we can relate to.
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Re: What Should You Do? Scenario 4.

Postby Indian Summer » 01 25, 2013 •  [Post 16]

I hate to admit it but I'm probably not as aggressive as I should be sometimes. I always rank my tactics from low impact to high & often use them in that order. But... if I try a more agressive approach like D: scatter them.... and blow it then it's back to square 1 whereas if I try say the lowest impact option A... and it doesn't work, I have lost nothing (except precious time of course) and can still atempt the more agressive tactics later. Yes... this has probably cost me a few opprtunities.

To concur with 0tcWill... when I'm that close RJs thread might not have made it that far because I am very aggresive about taking advantage of any legit small window of opportunity to slip an arrow in there. I think there are more "close but no cigar" stories than there should be.

So.... I'd pass on A. Experience tells me that's not happenin'. It's the least agressive and not agressive enough, especially for my last day.

I hate unfilled elk tags so C isn't an option. My motto is the last hour of a hunt is as good or better than the first to kill an elk.

D is a last resort for me and plus I can try the less agressive ones first and save that.

I forgot to mention that I just used option F, then E real fast when I asked myself how did I let RJ bait me into this long reply. So I guess that leaves me with B by process of elimination.

I totally agree with Fox Valley that "The thermals are coming down,and the elk are heading up to bed.Trying to intercept them might get you winded" so I'm not trying to get above/ahead of them. Good luck with that anyway usually.

Getting far enough ahead of them and finding a good setup spot (especially if it's thick) without getting busted will not be easy unless you really know where they are heading and it's a far enough away to give you time..... meaning you knew the elk and the area like the back of your hand

I'm with Cnelk as far as "Then grab a branch and rake a tree and stomp my feet." etc. BUT after some cow calling to get his ear turned my way. Remember... the cow calling DID work the first time on him so that's plan A once I get where I want to be.

The raking/stomping are anonymus sounds. Not a "voice" like a bugle. Not a threat which I may resort to as I get more desparate or closer to the herd.

I'd try to be at the same elevation as the bull because it's easier to convince him to make a little detour to check it out without his cows get too far ahead.

If I had to ask a few more questins about the scenario they may be: How thick? Is it possible for me to get an occasional visual on the elk or is it thick where setups are all or nothing? And... am I sure he is the only bull or am I dealing with a sattellite possibly which would obviusly change things a bit. If I have 2 bulls to go for s I'd be more agressive on the smaller and then try to sneak in on the herd afterward for a crack at the herd bull which is where the threats would come in.

Keep em coming Phantom because the more we go through these types of things the less likely our brain will draw a blank in the heat of the moment when it really happens. Tell your wife we're sorry for her loss. L0L
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Re: What Should You Do? Scenario 4.

Postby ElkNut1 » 01 26, 2013 •  [Post 17]

In a nutshell, I would dog the moving herd all the way to his bedding area with basically no calling from me, no need to, he's bugling regularly which gives away his position & general direction. A moving herd presents lots of trouble when trying to call them back where they just were. If you cow call he tries to have you catch up to the group with "get up here" bugles & chuckles, if you bugle he warns you to stay back, both low percentage odds for the hunter. Wait for him to get to bedding area, this is where you will kill him. Herd Bulls are very vulnerable & callable once they get to where they want to be, in this case the bedding area, he will defend it with his life & not run if handled correctly.

It's very common for herd bulls to bugle their way to the bedding/feeding areas, this is especially so as cows show signs of estrus, if the cows are not showing signs then there's very little bugling by the herd bull in these transition times. Herd bulls bugle their way to bedding/feeding areas as a warning to any nearby bulls to stay away, too when satellites respond back this can give away their position & the lead cow will steer the harem away from a possible confrontation as she leads the group to their destination. The majority of the herd bulls we take are in their bedding area & before 10am.

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Re: What Should You Do? Scenario 4.

Postby Pop-r » 01 31, 2013 •  [Post 18]

Proceed with the "correct" handling please Paul!
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Re: What Should You Do? Scenario 4.

Postby ElkNut1 » 02 01, 2013 •  [Post 19]

Pop-r, wow, there are so many scenarios that can play out here! As I mentioned we prefer to get the elk in their bedding area then work our magic. BUT, it's not always the case, it's generally the case! (grin)

For instance, last year we heard a herd bull bugling his way up the mtn with my grandson as shooter, we dogged him, his cows were way up ahead of him, we never saw any of them at that time but knew in the dark what was going on. We dogged them for well over an hour & at least 1500' straight up & probably more. We spotted him at about 400yds in a semi opening & saw he was a great bull for the area. He was slowly meandering up the hill which allowed us to cut the distance. We were able to get 150yds or so from him as he entered the timber from a rocky grassy slope, it benched right in that area where the timber started. My son & grandson hustled up the hill to the bench so they had a good shot & view if the bull came out to my calling.
I started with 3-4 whiny cow mews to test his level of interest, he bugled instantly, game on!!!! I cow called a few more times excitedly & rolled rocks & did some stomping around, I'm below the bench/shelf so he couldn't see me at all, I was trying to pull him to the edge to get a look see, that would put him in front of Paul Jr & grandson. I could tell the bull came my way from his bugling & chuckling but was hesitant, I threw out a short scream & chuckling trying to keep my cows close, that pretty much brought him right to me with a few more cow whines mixed in. As you see he did not make it to the bedding area but we felt he may commit so tried right there. If no good would have come of it we would have shut it down & continue to dog him to the bedding area.

On another occasion, we located a bull with cows 1/2 hour before light by getting him to bugle with a locater bugle of our own. Once located we made our way up the mtn. We hadn't heard much bugling on our way up right at light so cut loose with another bugle, the bull responded well above us, after a few minutes of straight up we catch movement 350-400yds & see the herd, the herd bull was in the rear. We cut loose with a few whiny cow mews & the herd bull bugled demandingly for this cow, my son whined some more & went straight away from the bull back down with very excited cow calling & that herd bull came running straight down the mtn right at me, he couldn't see where the calling was coming from so proceeded forward looking for the cow, I'm sure the bugle we let out a few minutes earlier also played apart in his aggressiveness as this cow was between them. That bull came running in & stopped 14 yds from me.

There are times you can get bulls to react when conditions & aggressive attitude by the bull line up. When they don't we don't force it, let them go & dog them! Once in the bedding area & they mill around before bedding good things can happen. If the bull is not aggressive because no cows are in or nearing estrus then it's best to get creative & work on the herd bulls curiosity & not slam him with aggressive action. Get 75yds or so out with good cover & wind & start raking tree.brush snapping dry limbs, stomping around moderately, give a few soft pants & light glunking, this can really raise the brows of the bull to come & check out this brash bull that is displaying for his cows, you may have to keep up the ruckus for a solid 15min or so, even if he doesn't show right away setup with the wind & cover because bulls can come sneaking in when not rutting hard.

When they are aggressive & bugling a bunch & harassed by satellites because of hot cows in the bedding area they are much more defensive & callable. Get in that 100yd or closer range & in most cases a challenge bugle & raking will get it done! Other times we will resort to 3-4 whiny cow calls & the bull will bugle for us to get back to the group, when he does we'll scream a challenge right over him sorta like Level II of The Threat! In nearly every case the bull will charge in because we've made it convenient , good cover & wind are paramount here!! Still lots of different ideas to go with that we've used depending on situation. Hope this helps & if you want to know something more specific please ask?

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Re: What Should You Do? Scenario 4.

Postby Pop-r » 02 02, 2013 •  [Post 20]

Thanks! I just love to put every scenario & response I can in my "database"!
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