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What Did You Just Say to Me? Episode 3

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What Did You Just Say to Me? Episode 3

Postby WapitiTalk1 » 01 28, 2013 •  [Post 1]

Another “what did you just say to me” thread. Again, the disclaimer: I’m trying to be a descriptive as possible with the scenarios but please understand I can’t cover all the variables potentially encountered in each of the presented situations. For these threads, let’s assume everybody knows what the different elk noises sound like (cow chatter, locater bugle, screams, chuckles, grunts, alarm barks, nervous grunts, etc.). Remember, it’s all about sharing knowledge from experience, asking questions, and perhaps, learning a thing or two.

Scenario: its late afternoon, the third week in September and you find yourself on a hillside you hunted a few days before. The last time you were here, you’d received one answer to your locater bugle but no follow on action in that area. You believe it may be a transition area for elk between feed and bed. You have decided to stop short of a tiny finger ridge and throw out a few cow/calf calls to see if there may be anybody interested in joining you for dinner. You get close to the finger ridge, almost to the top so your calls can be heard in the alder bench on the other side, throw out some soft cow calls and immediately buzz backwards, off to one side of where you’d just called, 25 yards or so to set up. You hear what sounds like brush being bashed on the other side of the finger ridge. A few more cow calls by you, a bit more brush bashing coming from the other side of the little ridge. No bugles or cow calls come back at you from over the ridge, just the brush raking. You give this setup a good 15 minutes and continue to receive the same results. Finally, you decide to work the thermals and get a bit closer. As you crest the little finger ridge and are making your way uphill on an elk trail to gain the thermals advantage, you physically see alder moving below you to the left, about 75 yards. The elk perhaps heard you moving. You move 20 to 30 yards more along the sidehill, above the bull and again, set up to do some soft cow sounds. Same response but this time you can see a young bull with pretty white antler tips knocking the snot out of some alder brush, and, pawing the ground. I’ll stop here. What is this elk communicating and what action, if any, should you take to potentially get a shot?
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What Did You Just Say to Me? Episode 3

Postby slim9300 » 01 28, 2013 •  [Post 2]

This is a good one for you newer elk hunters. If I knew the answer to this early in my elk hunting career, there would be a few more dead bulls on my wall. This scenario will happen to you almost every year if you are getting into elk on a regular basis. Time to make the best of it! ;)
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Re: What Did You Just Say to Me? Episode 3

Postby HurricaneHuge » 01 28, 2013 •  [Post 3]

My gut says he's trying to demonstrate for me to bring me in. I'm not sure what to do from that point.
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Re: What Did You Just Say to Me? Episode 3

Postby Swede » 01 28, 2013 •  [Post 4]

The bull is showing off for the girls he thinks he has heard. I would like to have a good decoy in this situation, which I could set up where I was making the cow sounds. If you want throw in a couple mild estrus whines. Then move away a few feet and throw in a small bull sound. Be sure to be in place where you can get a shot when the bull moves. If the bull does not move to offer a shot, I would try a nervous grunt in a few minutes. None of these sounds should intimidate the bull or chase him off.
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Re: What Did You Just Say to Me? Episode 3

Postby HurricaneHuge » 01 28, 2013 •  [Post 5]

I was curious if bull sounds were going to be suggested based on the maturity of the bull. I thought decoy, but didn't trust it. Better keep paying attention to my gut.
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Re: What Did You Just Say to Me? Episode 3

Postby WapitiTalk1 » 01 28, 2013 •  [Post 6]

HurricaneHuge wrote:My gut says he's trying to demonstrate for me to bring me in. I'm not sure what to do from that point.


Bingo HurricaneHuge. The bull in this situation (been there more than a few times) is using non verbal communication in an attempt to impress and "call in" some chicks (responding to the cow sounds you made as you set up before and beyond the finger ridge). Not sure why they don't bugle sometimes (perhaps got his buns kicked the day before, bad hunter experience, cat got his tongue, sore throat... :)..., has had success using this method before, timing of the rut, etc., etc., not sure) but bulls will definitely use this method (postureing, raking, pawing/stomping the ground, running back and forth on a specific spot) in an attempt to woo the cows and draw them in. Swede touched on a few possible avenues to get close enough for a shot. All of them ring true. Bottom line in this scenario when Mr. Bull is standing his ground and asking for you to come to his location, oblige him, the best way you can in the terrain you're currently deployed in..
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Re: What Did You Just Say to Me? Episode 3

Postby HurricaneHuge » 01 28, 2013 •  [Post 7]

So, at this point, the bull is visible to me, but unaware of my presence. How would you suggest going forward? With and without a decoy?

With a decoy, being already inside of 75 yards, I feel like I'd want to pick a spot with enough cover to deploy my decoy, set it, and position myself silently before calling again. This setup should be in a spot I haven't been heard from yet to raise enough curiosity to pull the bull enough to see the decoy, which hopefully pulls him the rest of the way. Does that sound right? Or would I set the decoy near where he heard me last, while moving away as I call to make the bull feel like I'm moving off, hopefully prompting him to pursue as I set up to the side of my decoy hoping for a broadside shot as he approaches.

Without a decoy, I feel like I should pick a route with thick cover towards the bull, stop out of sight but moving with noise to sound like the cows are moving towards him, and nervous grunt to entice him to show himself.

Am I even close?
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Re: What Did You Just Say to Me? Episode 3

Postby Swede » 01 28, 2013 •  [Post 8]

Hurricanehuge, you are picking up on the dilemma. If I understand the situation correctly, you are about 50 yards from the small bull. You were 75 yards away, but you advanced 20 yards to 30 yards. In my understanding of this scene, I stopped here because I could not advance farther without risking getting busted. The land has cover, but it is not a jungle. You can see the bull 50 yards away. We all picture the scene a little differently, but from what I am seeing here, advancing closer is risky. If you can see the bull, it probably won't take much for him to see you. With care and by watching you can move around a little. If you take advantage of the cover, you might advance some. If not, you still know he wants to meet you. He is a young bull, but he is a little leery of getting his rear kicked again, so he is a little timid. I would encourage him to come to me at this point. If he doe not, you could still have a chance at him a little later.
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Re: What Did You Just Say to Me? Episode 3

Postby HurricaneHuge » 01 28, 2013 •  [Post 9]

I thought we were closer, too. Just used the 75 as it was the only real figure given. I agree that I'm picturing semi-thick areas. But its also possible I'm picking him up through a small window and can move if his eyes are elsewhere (like beating the crap out of a brush) and cover allows. If in fact I'm 50 yards, and it's fairly open, I'm picking out possible shooting lanes.
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Re: What Did You Just Say to Me? Episode 3

Postby Swede » 01 28, 2013 •  [Post 10]

Good point Hurricanehuge. As we can see (no pun intended) all of us will visualize the situation a little differently and thus deal with it diffrently. I would not shoot 50 yards. I want him closer, even though I am waiting where I expect to get a clear shot at him. Like you, if I get a clear shot at him at 40 yards, I'm taking it. I am not waiting for a bigger bull. It is way too late in the season to pass on him, and I don't care for tag soup.
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Re: What Did You Just Say to Me? Episode 3

Postby Indian Summer » 01 29, 2013 •  [Post 11]

Swede wrote:Hurricanehuge, you are picking up on the dilemma. If I understand the situation correctly, you are about 50 yards from the small bull. You were 75 yards away, but you advanced 20 yards to 30 yards. In my understanding of this scene, I stopped here because I could not advance farther without risking getting busted. The land has cover, but it is not a jungle. You can see the bull 50 yards away. We all picture the scene a little differently, but from what I am seeing here, advancing closer is risky. If you can see the bull, it probably won't take much for him to see you. With care and by watching you can move around a little. If you take advantage of the cover, you might advance some. If not, you still know he wants to meet you. He is a young bull, but he is a little leery of getting his rear kicked again, so he is a little timid. I would encourage him to come to me at this point. If he does not, you could still have a chance at him a little later.


Swede nailed that one note for note!
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Re: What Did You Just Say to Me? Episode 3

Postby foxvalley » 01 29, 2013 •  [Post 12]

The only issue with using a decoy this close,is when he does see it,and decides to to advance, the sattalite bulls,from my experience, will most likely scent check it first,so he will circle around downwind from where he is,scent check, then come in. If you can set up the decoy without him see it,move downwind,then try to throw a call back at the decoy.
If it's the end of sept.he more than likely has had an encounter with hunters,and heard lots of cow calling by hunters. I would be more sutble,and with or without a decoy, snap a large branch light foot stomping,then sneek down wind 20 yds. or so. Plan B.He hasn't budged,still raking,wanting you to get over there.Sneek back up wind,try a lost calf call,frantic,calling. go back downwind,setup. Plan C.He didn't move an inch.Find the thickest avenue to take between you and the bull,and start to plead non stop,and go right at him,he wants you to come,then come.
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Re: What Did You Just Say to Me? Episode 3

Postby elkmtngear » 01 29, 2013 •  [Post 13]

foxvalley wrote:The only issue with using a decoy this close,is when he does see it,and decides to to advance, the sattalite bulls,from my experience, will most likely scent check it first,so he will circle around downwind from where he is,scent check, then come in. If you can set up the decoy without him see it,move downwind,then try to throw a call back at the decoy.


I agree, a bull like this will circle to try to get the wind on the decoy in his approach. I would either do as foxvalley suggested here, or simply move to him using the decoy as a shield, utilizing the best available cover to break up your approach. If team hunting with a decoy, this could be a slam dunk. 8-)
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Re: What Did You Just Say to Me? Episode 3

Postby Swede » 01 29, 2013 •  [Post 14]

Foxvalley, your observation is interesting. I have never had an elk "scent check" my decoy like that before, but I am not much of a decoy hunter either. I have had elk scent check me, but this is different. I have a herd of decoys, but they are mostly camp slugs. Worse yet they won't go into the woods unless I put them in my pack and carry them. Those lazy buggers are often a liability around a water hole, so I refuse to use them there anymore. Many elk hate walking in and unsuspectedly coming upon another elk. Of coarse in the scenario, we are considering, our satellite expects to see a cow. That is also different than the water hole situation.
I have had critters come up to the decoy I set at a water hole, and put their nose to it for awhile and smell, go get a drink, then come back and sniff again.
For this "episode", as always, set up where there is reasonable cover just a short way (about 10 yards for this episode if possible) from the decoy, nearest to where you expect the bull to come from. In any case the hunter always has to be thinking about the wind, and give yourself the best opportunity to avoid being busted. Anyway I am glad Foxvalley brought this out. You make a good point.
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Re: What Did You Just Say to Me? Episode 3

Postby >>>---WW----> » 01 29, 2013 •  [Post 15]

Everyone has their own ideas here so I'm not going to get into it too deep. I only want to point out a couple of things.

The most common phrase for what this bull is doing, is usually called displaying. So the next time you hear someone talk about displaying, this is one form of it.

The second thing I want to mention is that when a bull is raking brush, a good portion of the time he will have his eyes closed to protect them. This could be your opertunity to close the gap and hopefully get within shooting range. But you better be prepared to stop and freeze as soon as he is through beating the brush or he will see you.
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