Wapiti Talk | Elk Hunting Forum | Elk Hunting Tips
 

What Should You Do? Scenario 5

Moderators: Swede, Tigger, Lefty, Indian Summer, WapitiTalk1

What Should You Do? Scenario 5

Postby WapitiTalk1 » 01 29, 2013 •  [Post 1]

It’s the third week in SEP and you and your hunting partner are working down and across a series of finger ridges on the side of XX Mountain in the Gem state. Its late afternoon and you know there will be elk in one of the smaller draws that run up and down the huge side hill you’re descending down and across. You’re sweeping from south to north, as you hunt. Yep, a series of east/west flowing draws which means, you’re dropping down on all north facing slopes each time you crest a small ridge and descend. As you top each small ridge, you drop down a bit, set up and try to strike up some conversations with the indigenous population. After two of these endeavours with no results, you top the third finger ridge, listen for unsolicited elk sounds for a few minutes, then commence with setting up. You decide to start with a locater bugle for this set up. Well, all heck breaks loose. From a small semi- flat spot on the bottom of the draw (70 or 80 yards below and left) you hear immediate responses to your bugle from several cows! Across the draw, in a somewhat benchy area... two bulls sing back. One is a honker, who follows his challenge bugle with some hard hitting grunts. The big bull is approximately 100 yards across and down; the smaller bull seems to be directly across the draw. Well, you’ve just woke up the sleepy mountain side for sure. As you and your partner share a few, quick thoughts on how to proceed you hear immediate movement to your left 30 yards or so and hear a few calves nervously chirping. Below you to the left, momma elk has moved up the side hill a bit and is now really talking (come back down here young ones). This all happens in less than a minute. Well now you’ve done it, it seems like you’ve walked into a small herd that was on the move... seemingly, in your direction. You have calves to your left, a concerned cow down below you and to the left, several cows down to the left, in the small flat bottom, and two bulls across the small draw. It’s very, very thick in this particular area (timbered but tons of 5-10 foot tall alder and huckleberry brush) but there is a small opening on the bottom of the draw where there are cows having a nervous conversation. From where you’re currently sitting, there are a few shooting lanes out to maybe 20 yards in a few directions going downhill. It’s so thick here that moving to the right and across the draw will be extremely unwise. I know, lots going on here.

Would you:


a. Drop the shooter in place, head back up the side hill 20-25 yards, do some raking and throw out some excited cow sounds followed by a scream.

b. Give the shooter a few minutes to get down to the small opening to set up. You’ll stay put and commence to throw out cow/calf talk, mixed with some screams and chuckles in an attempt to pull one of the bulls across your partner.

c. Phone a friend for advise (oops, no cell service here).

d. Don’t make another elk sound until you need a popping/nervous grunt, split up, and try to sneak across the draw on elk trails through the alder to get close to the bull(s).

What say you elk hunters? After a few post up their thoughts, I’ll tell you what I did last September when I experienced this situation. My chosen course of action (not necessarily the best), resulted in my buddy drawing on the herd bull at 25 yards.
User avatar
WapitiTalk1
 
Posts: 8732
Joined: 06 10, 2012
Location: WA State
First Name: RJ

Re: What Should You Do? Scenario 5

Postby Swede » 01 29, 2013 •  [Post 2]

I like option B. If the situation looks like I could pull it off, option D would be an alternative.
Swede
Wapiti Hunting - Tree Stand Tactics
 
Posts: 10215
Joined: 06 16, 2012

Re: What Should You Do? Scenario 5

Postby ORelksniper » 01 29, 2013 •  [Post 3]

I'll play. I like option A. I think with all the cows below in the opening the odds of sneaking down without getting busted are slim. I know option A isn't very aggressive but I'll stick with it.
ORelksniper
Rank: Rag Horn
 
Posts: 206
Joined: 10 01, 2012
Location: Oregon

Re: What Should You Do? Scenario 5

Postby easeup » 01 29, 2013 •  [Post 4]

I like B except that the shooter might bust ot a few cows and calves at that close distance.
so I go with A... a little raking and a bugle with a little chuckle on the end gets us a bull in our pocket.
User avatar
easeup
Rank: An Elk Nut
 
Posts: 980
Joined: 06 15, 2012
Location: TEXAS

Re: What Should You Do? Scenario 5

Postby dotman » 01 29, 2013 •  [Post 5]

I like B bust a few cows and hope they don't head back to the bull.
dotman
Rank: An Elk Nut
 
Posts: 654
Joined: 06 11, 2012

Re: What Should You Do? Scenario 5

Postby Trophyhill » 01 29, 2013 •  [Post 6]

option A would seem to be the "safe" play. if you can keep the bull vocal the shooter should be able to slip in and kill him if he's not getting run over by him
Trophyhill
 
Posts: 1175
Joined: 01 20, 2013
Location: Tijeras, NM
First Name: David
Last Name: B

Re: What Should You Do? Scenario 5

Postby otcWill » 01 30, 2013 •  [Post 7]

Ok, seems to me that we're either busted or about to be busted so, if that's the case, then running straight at the bull with the nastiest thing you've got can be absolultely deadly in this situation. Hit a throaty challenge bugle charge him if you get busted! This can well result in a point blank opportunity!! If you are not busted, than I'd still hit the challenge only after the shooter was in place and maybe precluded with a few pleading cow sounds. Great situation to be in! Thanks for posting
otcWill
Rank: Herd Bull
 
Posts: 498
Joined: 06 23, 2012
Location: Colorado

Re: What Should You Do? Scenario 5

Postby ElkNut1 » 01 30, 2013 •  [Post 8]

What's really nice about these Topics is that as elk hunters you will notice that not every situation calls for one set of calling technique or strategy. Each encounter presents its own challenges, it's up to us to choose the best possible method that will give us the best possible odds per encounter, these are great learning aids. With everyones input it's very cool to see how different hunters think. There are several options in most encounters that can & do work, some have higher odds than the other. Most elk encounters are situational & not scripted so constant adjusting may be needed on our part to "fit in" & adapt to each one individually, this makes us very versatile hunters!

To respond to this question I would take into consideration the events taking place, this group is on the move & no longer in the bedding area in a relaxed atmosphere, if they were I would tailor my method of use to that situation, it would differ how I would approach the present one at hand. In this case with nervous cows & calves moving away I would consider two options & a very quick decision MUST be made here for best results as these elk will be out of your life shortly. A setup for me is out of the question here, these elk are not lingering around & a setup could bring in unwanted cows, spikes or the satellites first, aggressive action is in order because I have my sights set on the herd bull, as far as I'm concerned those satellites don't exist! (grin) I'm going after one bull & one bull only so all my efforts are focused solely on him. I have two choices as I see it that should net respectable results, in the heat of battle things could change in the blink of an eye so I prepare for that mentally as well. It's important here to choose one bull & stay focused!

Choice 1 - I want the bull coming to me! --- The wind should be moving up the mtn in the afternoon, advantage hunter. I would head straight down the mtn with wind & cover until I was on his level & aprox 50yds away but on same elevation, noise from me is needed as I go crashing down the hill, once I'm where I want to be I would give 3 excited cow whines, if the bull responds great but it's not needed, I would then give 3-4 pants through my tube & scream a short powerful challenge, I'd add stomping/thrashing around. This herd bull should erupt from where he is & come rescue this cow as I've made it very convenient for him. If he screams his challenge but won't come to me (he will though) within 30 seconds I'd cow whine my way right at him with an arrow nocked, he thinks the cow is making her way to him & this will give you a point blank shot opportunity! You see he has cows moving all around him talking already, one more (you) isn't going to hurt a thing.

Choice 2- I go right to the bull. --- From top position with wind & cover go down towards the herd bull mewing like the rest of the cows until even with him or slightly above, do not worry about cows getting a glimpse of you here & there during your quick descent, once there go right to the bull while still mewing urgently, as you get close stop all mewing, distance can vary when I stop, the thicker the landscape the better, I look intently for him as I slow way down slipping in, noise isn't a factor if it cannot be helped he thinks you are just one of the many cows. You should have a very close shot!

ElkNut1
ElkNut1
ElkNut/Paul
 
Posts: 4673
Joined: 05 11, 2012
Location: Idaho

Re: What Should You Do? Scenario 5

Postby ORelksniper » 01 30, 2013 •  [Post 9]

Paul, I like the aggressive nature of your plan(s) even though I have no success with that kind of action. My question is, why are you not worried about cows picking you off as you move? Seems like if you get busted the cows bolt and take the bull(s) with them.
ORelksniper
Rank: Rag Horn
 
Posts: 206
Joined: 10 01, 2012
Location: Oregon

Re: What Should You Do? Scenario 5

Postby ElkNut1 » 01 30, 2013 •  [Post 10]

Sniper, good question. When cows run off the bull can head their way in time, yes. But it does not happen that quickly unless the bull spots you. In the case of the topic starter I responded according to his situation, notice he says there was lots of cover & thick brush. It would be very tough for any cows to get a concrete identification of me, too if you have to run at the cows to get them out of there we do that too, it starts a small stampede, the bull who hears all this but cannot see what's happening has no idea why they're running off? A quick short high pitch bugle & a few pants through your bugle tube can let the bull know why they ran, an intruder bull was upon them to hook them out & now this intruder bull is trying desperately to call them to himself. This takes quick action & fast thinking to do this.

If cows bolt we hunters must act extremely fast with our next move, we only have a few precious seconds (30 or so) to get the bull. In the case of a cow or two seeing movement, you as the hunter still have time to get to this herd bull cow calling your way to him as I described & the reasons why it will work. We have employed these actions & ones similar to them with very good success.

Worst thing a hunter can do once cows run in every direction is to setup in one spot & start cow calling in hopes the bull will come over to you, this rarely happens. The herd bull may bugle or chuckle you to get over there at the same time putting distance between you & him. The country & wind must allow such an aggressive move, one without the other will spell disaster!

ElKNut1
ElkNut1
ElkNut/Paul
 
Posts: 4673
Joined: 05 11, 2012
Location: Idaho

Re: What Should You Do? Scenario 5

Postby Trophyhill » 01 30, 2013 •  [Post 11]

ElkNut1 wrote:
Worst thing a hunter can do once cows run in every direction is to setup in one spot & start cow calling in hopes the bull will come over to you, this rarely happens. The herd bull may bugle or chuckle you to get over there at the same time putting distance between you & him.

ElKNut1


yup wont make that mistake again :)
Trophyhill
 
Posts: 1175
Joined: 01 20, 2013
Location: Tijeras, NM
First Name: David
Last Name: B

Re: What Should You Do? Scenario 5

Postby foxvalley » 01 31, 2013 •  [Post 12]

BOOM! BAMB! CHARGE! CRASH! STOMP! PANT! SCREAM! Paul, you just gave me goose bumps!!!! With everything happening so fast,the bull has to react fast ,or lose his cows.

One thing I have noticed that separates our way of thinking vs. Pauls way of thinking,is that he instantly understands the situation,like this one for example,he didn't hesitate to get VERY AGGRESIVE!!!!!

Keep em coming RJ, I'm afraid we still have a lot to learn.

Thanks again Paul.
User avatar
foxvalley
Rank: An Elk Nut
 
Posts: 643
Joined: 06 14, 2012
First Name: doug
Last Name: houghton

Re: What Should You Do? Scenario 5

Postby ElkNut1 » 01 31, 2013 •  [Post 13]

Foxvalley, thanks. You are so right sir on aggressive action! The thing with us hunters is we need to know when to apply serious pressure & when to back off from it. Just because a bull has cows doesn't mean true aggression is the answer at all times, in many cases it's quite the opposite with us, we must play the curiosity card instead. It's all in reading the present situation at hand & stacking the odds in ones favor, we strive to get the elk we are working on the defense, if you get elk on the defensive side you will win most encounters, if the bull gets you on the defense he will win most those battles.

The issues that arise is we all have our own definition of "aggressive action" -- For some just using calls at all is a big step for them, others may go the other way & call way too much or at the wrong times abusing aggressive action. Calling elk no matter how you do it or look at it is a "timing thing" -- Right sound right time & sequence is very important if you're going to call most bulls to bowrange or use whatever method that's needed for a shot opportunity. If just one set of sounds was needed in all situations then elk hunting would be easy. (grin) There are times bulls couldn't care less about a cow sound, other times they couldn't care less about bull sounds, when this happens getting creative is generally the answer here. Work an elks weakness at these times, they're herd animals, they want to know who other elk are in an area they don't recognize by their sound. Much patience is necessary at this time to allow things to develop, elk within earshot will generally investigate during these non rutting times. -- So here we have a complete contrast from aggressive elk & non aggressive elk, understand your situation & "fit in"

ElkNut1
ElkNut1
ElkNut/Paul
 
Posts: 4673
Joined: 05 11, 2012
Location: Idaho

Re: What Should You Do? Scenario 5

Postby ORelksniper » 02 05, 2013 •  [Post 14]

Hey RJ, did ya forget about the wrap up? I'd like to know what action you and your partner took to get on top of this bull.
ORelksniper
Rank: Rag Horn
 
Posts: 206
Joined: 10 01, 2012
Location: Oregon

Re: What Should You Do? Scenario 5

Postby Black Wolf » 02 05, 2013 •  [Post 15]

ElkNut1 wrote:Each encounter presents its own challenges, it's up to us to choose the best possible method that will give us the best possible odds per encounter, these are great learning aids. Most elk encounters are situational & not scripted so constant adjusting may be needed on our part to "fit in" & adapt to each one individually, this makes us very versatile hunters!

Choice 1 - I want the bull coming to me! --- The wind should be moving up the mtn in the afternoon, advantage hunter. I would head straight down the mtn with wind & cover until I was on his level & aprox 50yds away but on same elevation, noise from me is needed as I go crashing down the hill, once I'm where I want to be I would give 3 excited cow whines, if the bull responds great but it's not needed, I would then give 3-4 pants through my tube & scream a short powerful challenge, I'd add stomping/thrashing around. This herd bull should erupt from where he is & come rescue this cow as I've made it very convenient for him. If he screams his challenge but won't come to me (he will though) within 30 seconds I'd cow whine my way right at him with an arrow nocked, he thinks the cow is making her way to him & this will give you a point blank shot opportunity! You see he has cows moving all around him talking already, one more (you) isn't going to hurt a thing.

Choice 2- I go right to the bull. --- From top position with wind & cover go down towards the herd bull mewing like the rest of the cows until even with him or slightly above, do not worry about cows getting a glimpse of you here & there during your quick descent, once there go right to the bull while still mewing urgently, as you get close stop all mewing, distance can vary when I stop, the thicker the landscape the better, I look intently for him as I slow way down slipping in, noise isn't a factor if it cannot be helped he thinks you are just one of the many cows. You should have a very close shot!


Our approach to calling and elk hunting is amazingly similar. Totally agree with ya! :D

Ray
User avatar
Black Wolf
Rank: New User
 
Posts: 19
Joined: 01 26, 2013
First Name: Ray
Last Name: Cook

Re: What Should You Do? Scenario 5

Postby WapitiTalk1 » 02 05, 2013 •  [Post 16]

sniper wrote:Hey RJ, did ya forget about the wrap up? I'd like to know what action you and your partner took to get on top of this bull.


I decided quickly to send Joe down towards the small clearing where I could hear a few cows chattering, including the momma (hanging somewhere between myself and the other cows) that was anxiously calling the two calves that were to my left. Snapshot plan was to get Joe closer to the bulls, potentially on a path they would take to come see me. There was a lone elk trail in the tall alder (thick, but still a used travel route) heading down to the left towards the small clearing (maybe a 40X60 yard East to West opening 70ish yards below). Told Joe to "go get em", meaning the bulls beyond where I believed the majority of the small group of cows were. I couldn’t see anything in the thickness of the alder jungle beyond 20 yards or so but heard plenty. I stayed somewhat in place, moving back and forth/up and down the hillside a bit, making excited cow mews, some calf chirps, kicked the crap out of some alder, stomped, screamed and chuckled over the course of 6, 7 minutes or more. The bulls continued to sound off, the cows did not bust and a few actually moved past Joe towards me (guess I sounded sexy). Joe made it to the small clearing and had shooting lanes to his left and into the clearing for some pretty clear shots, none over 40ish yards. The herd bull (decent 5X) finally couldn’t take it anymore and charged into the small clearing where a few of his girls were, on a pretty direct route towards me. Joe drew back for this easy slam dunk shot and settled his pin on the bull's vitals, following it as it moved to the center of the clearing where it stopped broadside….. directly on the other side of a cow! No shot and the elk finally busted but it was an exciting hunt with my partner almost tagging his bull.

Edit: In hindsight, I certainly could have been more aggressive. It was a unique situation that the cows were on "this side" and the bulls, on the other side of the draw so I thought I could bring one or both of the boys over my way which actually somewhat occurred. I think I have a video posted somewhere showing me carrying on verbally with the elk while Joe crawled in. Perhaps, I was too interested in movie making and trying to get a bull to run in on camera :roll: and certainly could have taken the fight the them more directly. Fun hunt though.
User avatar
WapitiTalk1
 
Posts: 8732
Joined: 06 10, 2012
Location: WA State
First Name: RJ

Re: What Should You Do? Scenario 5

Postby ORelksniper » 02 05, 2013 •  [Post 17]

Thanks RJ. Wish I could have seen that. Once again aggressive action nets results even though there no shot.
ORelksniper
Rank: Rag Horn
 
Posts: 206
Joined: 10 01, 2012
Location: Oregon


cron