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Riddle me this...and hello everyone!

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Riddle me this...and hello everyone!

Postby Trumkin the Dwarf » 06 14, 2013 •  [Post 1]

New here, at least on an official basis. Anyways I decided it is time to say hello, and ask a question.

The situation: Last fall (somewhere around the 8th of September), I ran into a situation that left me scratching my head. A buddy and I had been hunting all morning without any action at all. No elk could be heard, until 11 am when I had a bull growl/scream at me. I had let out three cow calls in about 20 seconds, and followed it up instantly by a bugle. He was in some timber a couple hundred yards away, and we quickly moved into the same stand of trees, found a setup with the wind in our favor, and proceeded to try and get him to come in.

At this point, we had exhausted our knowledge about calling elk and were running on educated guesses. We pretty much tried to hit a combo that would draw this bull in, but with not much understanding of what would get him going. We could hear him moving about 80 yards away (guessing here, because it was so thick that 40 yards was a long way to see), and he seemed to be moving back and forth in a small area. For the next 10 minutes he paced around, but wouldn't answer any calls, or come closer. Then the sounds stopped, and we realized he had slipped away.

What did I do wrong? And what would you have done in this situation?
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Re: Riddle me this...and hello everyone!

Postby dotman » 06 14, 2013 •  [Post 2]

I would have been more aggressive and had my buddy beat up a tree and let out a scream as I moved closer since it was so thick. I'm probably wrong but that's my take :)
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Re: Riddle me this...and hello everyone!

Postby Swede » 06 14, 2013 •  [Post 3]

At first he thought he was just calling a cow or two. When you hit him with the bugle you told him he had more to contend with. I do not know if he had a cow or two with him. It is early season, so likely he was not a large bull. Most likely he was alone, but he did not want any @#$&%pow. When bulls pace back and forth they are trying to see you. I have never seen a situation where they pace back and forth and then come forward. If they don't see the elk, they leave.
With the bull out of sight and out of range, you could have moved ahead as long as you had cover. One of you could have stayed back while the other advanced. The one in the rear could have made some small bull sounds trying to imitate a small bull that wants his cow to return. You could have moved ahead and gave him a nervous grunt. The bull wanted the cow, but he was not up to having any real trouble.
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Re: Riddle me this...and hello everyone!

Postby Trumkin the Dwarf » 06 14, 2013 •  [Post 4]

Swede, he didn't bugle till after I had done the same. Not sure if that changes the situation.
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Re: Riddle me this...and hello everyone!

Postby WapitiTalk1 » 06 14, 2013 •  [Post 5]

Welcome to "the" elk forum. Sounds like you caught this bull in his bedding area. Cow calls alone may have elicited a favorable response (chuckles or bugle with chuckles) from the target bull but your "bugle" posed a challenge right off the bat and changed the game. He was warning you to stay away. As you got closer, he knew already that a bull was moving in and was being defensive, moving back and forth blanketing what I imagine were a handfull of cows. Eventually, he got tired of the game, the wind shifted, he spotted you, or something else and hit the trail with his small herd.

You already knew where the bull was at, so the shooter heads right at him, making excited cow sounds several times a minute. The caller stays back, up to 100 yards, and kicks the crap out of brush and throws an oocasional scream, while moving back and forth, forward and back, trying to call his cow back to him. The illusion of a cow leaving the intruding bull (you) has been established in the target bull's mind. The shooter continues to make sweet noises and gets in, I mean right in on that bull and hopefully gets a shot. The shooter should be prepared to throw out a popping grunt to stop the target bull for a shot.
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Re: Riddle me this...and hello everyone!

Postby dotman » 06 14, 2013 •  [Post 6]

Or maybe since you knew exactly where he was and had the wind you should have just snuck in without saying a thing and closed tha gap, leave your buddy back and once you closed to 40 yards he could give an excited cow call and pop a decoy drawin attention possibly to the decoy. Maybe throw in a few of the huffs Paul does when a bull doesn't want to be vocal.

Let me know if I'm way off still learning.
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Re: Riddle me this...and hello everyone!

Postby JohnFitzgerald » 06 14, 2013 •  [Post 7]

+1 RJ's comment. I too think he had a handfull of cows and his growly scream was a warning.

Him being that aggressive and the cover being so thick, I probably would have pressured him more. A lot of bulls feel safe with a 80 yards gap between a rival bull. Screams, pants, grunts, and a lot of ground noise would have been my first choice. Make the bull think your coming in for a fight.

RJ's tactic is also a good one. I've succesfully used it many time.

No matter what tactic you use, 80 yards with a 10 minute wait was to long of a time in my book. Nothing happens in the first 3-5, I move in closer.

Nothing better than pissing of a herd bull in his bedding area!

But that's just my 2-cents!
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Re: Riddle me this...and hello everyone!

Postby Trumkin the Dwarf » 06 14, 2013 •  [Post 8]

Sounds like we missed a really good opportunity :roll: Thanks for the input guys.
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Re: Riddle me this...and hello everyone!

Postby flystrait » 06 14, 2013 •  [Post 9]

JohnFitzgerald wrote:+1 RJ's comment. I too think he had a handfull of cows and his growly scream was a warning.

Him being that aggressive and the cover being so thick, I probably would have pressured him more. A lot of bulls feel safe with a 80 yards gap between a rival bull. Screams, pants, grunts, and a lot of ground noise would have been my first choice. Make the bull think your coming in for a fight.

RJ's tactic is also a good one. I've succesfully used it many time.

No matter what tactic you use, 80 yards with a 10 minute wait was to long of a time in my book. Nothing happens in the first 3-5, I move in closer.

Nothing better than pissing of a herd bull in his bedding area!

But that's just my 2-cents!


+1.
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Re: Riddle me this...and hello everyone!

Postby Swede » 06 14, 2013 •  [Post 10]

I have to admit that I misread the situation. I thought you were cow calling, then when he screamed and growled, you came back immediately with a bugle. Not sure why I misread the situation. Do ya think it could be a senior thing? John: You don't need to answer. :D
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Re: Riddle me this...and hello everyone!

Postby JohnFitzgerald » 06 14, 2013 •  [Post 11]

Swede wrote:I have to admit that I misread the situation. I thought you were cow calling, then when he screamed and growled, you came back immediately with a bugle. Not sure why I misread the situation. Do ya think it could be a senior thing? John: You don't need to answer. :D

Now, have I ever made fun of the elderly? :D
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Re: Riddle me this...and hello everyone!

Postby Swede » 06 14, 2013 •  [Post 12]

JohnFitzgerald wrote:Now, have I ever made fun of the elderly?


Well, I would hope not! No senior here would post anything negative, or cast you in anything but the most glorious light. :D
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Re: Riddle me this...and hello everyone!

Postby cnelk » 06 14, 2013 •  [Post 13]

Ive had senior moment and junior moments, not sure what the moments in between those are called but I sure have lots of those...

A basic rule I go with is whatever call set the bull off first, keep doing it until something different happens.
But you need to press the situation for it work, because something different can happen quick!

You and your buddy should automatically know who is pressing the bull and who is staying back.
That is not the time to have a game or two of Rock / Paper / Scissors to decide... :)
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Re: Riddle me this...and hello everyone!

Postby JohnFitzgerald » 06 14, 2013 •  [Post 14]

Trumkin the Dwarf wrote:Sounds like we missed a really good opportunity :roll: Thanks for the input guys.

Learning experience! We've all been there. ;)
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Re: Riddle me this...and hello everyone!

Postby ElkNut1 » 06 16, 2013 •  [Post 15]

If in that situation again, stay with the cow calls (no bugles) & go right at him at a fast walk or whatever terrain allows & have wind in your favor, do not worry about making noise, stomp your way to him, he thinks the cows are choosing him over this other bull. Many elk have fallen to this tactic.

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Re: Riddle me this...and hello everyone!

Postby elkmtngear » 06 16, 2013 •  [Post 16]

I agree that he probably had some cows. He now realized that there was another bull with cows in the vicinity. At 80 yds, he was probably pacing around trying to get a visual to match the audio. This is where a decoy could be a good thing to deploy.

You could have the shooter move ahead using the best available cover, and go right at him like Paul suggested shielding yourself with the SLIP System cow elk decoy.

Best of Luck,
Jeff

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Re: Riddle me this...and hello everyone!

Postby >>>---WW----> » 06 16, 2013 •  [Post 17]

This bull hung up on you. When that happens you can act as if you are also hung up and hit him with a nervous bark and try to make him come closer and show himself. If that doesn't work, cast your cow mews way back behind you ( if you have a partner, have him move bact at least 50 yards and do the calling ) and try to give him the impression that the cows are moving away. If he is interested in the cows, he should move your way.

I do alot of fishing around when I'm working a bull. And I try to find a sound that he will react to. There is always more than one way to skin a cat! Sounds like that bull just took you to the school of hard nocks. Been there-Done that! So don't feel lonesome.
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Re: Riddle me this...and hello everyone!

Postby Trophyhill » 06 16, 2013 •  [Post 18]

My experience with pacing bulls is they have cows and quite possibly another bull hanging around looking for an opportunity to hook a cow or 2. With 2 people this would have been a good time to use the Threat level 2
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