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Silent Bulls and Nothing Coming In

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Silent Bulls and Nothing Coming In

Postby JohnFitzgerald » 10 09, 2013 •  [Post 1]

Per PM Request - How to locate silent elk?
Per PM Request - Lot's of bugling and bulls, nothing coming in?

So, the bulls appear to be silent in your hunting area.
Advice:
1) Long, loud location bugles from high advantage points. Bugling from bottom of a thick drainage will limit your sound carry and prevents you from hearing responses.
2) Don't try to Locate Bugle in the rain. It's better to sleep in on those days.
3) Hot days or full moon, Located Bugle at night.
4) Busted bulls don't answer to the same bugle the next day.(I know I'll take a beating on this one)
5) When locating, use neutral sounds.

So, you had a lot of bulls bugling around you but you can't get anything to come in.
Advice:
1) Simple bugles and simple cow calls will get you a lot of attention. But the bulls will hang up. They have all the time in the world to get your wind. So you need to "Make It Happen" instead of "Waiting for It To Happen". Well placed and meaningful sounds will force the bull to react. This does not mean to throw out every sound you can none stop for 30 minutes. Quality over quantity will give a bull a dirt nap.

Just my 2-cents!
JohnFitzgerald
 

Re: Silent Bulls and Nothing Coming In

Postby Trophyhill » 10 10, 2013 •  [Post 2]

JohnFitzgerald wrote:So, you had a lot of bulls bugling around you but you can't get anything to come in.
Advice:
1) Simple bugles and simple cow calls will get you a lot of attention. But the bulls will hang up. They have all the time in the world to get your wind. So you need to "Make It Happen" instead of "Waiting for It To Happen". Well placed and meaningful sounds will force the bull to react. This does not mean to throw out every sound you can none stop for 30 minutes. Quality over quantity will give a bull a dirt nap.

Just my 2-cents!


Adding to this something that has worked well for me the last couple of years is when that bull or bulls sound off I feel a lot more confident moving in right away toward the bull and getting in as tight as I possibly can before sounding off again. Aggressive action!
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Re: Silent Bulls and Nothing Coming In

Postby Swede » 10 10, 2013 •  [Post 3]

JohnFitzgerald wrote:1) Simple bugles and simple cow calls will get you a lot of attention. But the bulls will hang up. They have all the time in the world to get your wind. So you need to "Make It Happen" instead of "Waiting for It To Happen". Well placed and meaningful sounds will force the bull to react. This does not mean to throw out every sound you can none stop for 30 minutes. Quality over quantity will give a bull a dirt nap.


I sure am not going to beat you up over this. I will hold off until I reload and take a shot later. :D What you wrote above is right on the money. I would add that not only do you not need every sound, but often in is not constant sound. Often it is good to cause the bull to come and hunt for you. As a caller we do not need to imitate a TV car salesman all of the time.
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Re: Silent Bulls and Nothing Coming In

Postby JohnFitzgerald » 10 10, 2013 •  [Post 4]

Trophyhill wrote:
JohnFitzgerald wrote:So, you had a lot of bulls bugling around you but you can't get anything to come in.
Advice:
1) Simple bugles and simple cow calls will get you a lot of attention. But the bulls will hang up. They have all the time in the world to get your wind. So you need to "Make It Happen" instead of "Waiting for It To Happen". Well placed and meaningful sounds will force the bull to react. This does not mean to throw out every sound you can none stop for 30 minutes. Quality over quantity will give a bull a dirt nap.

Just my 2-cents!


Adding to this something that has worked well for me the last couple of years is when that bull or bulls sound off I feel a lot more confident moving in right away toward the bull and getting in as tight as I possibly can before sounding off again. Aggressive action!


Very true!

I've also learned that at times it might be best to sit for little while to get a read on what's going on. If I believe he's a stantionary bull, I pounce like a rat on a cheeto! :-) I've dogged a lot of herds! Also, at times I've been accussed of being afraid to drop into thick and nasty country. The older I get the wiser I get and have learned that it pays to see which direction the bull might be heading before I commit. If the bull is stationary in the deepiest nastiest hole, then game on. It has nothing to do with being afraid and has everything to do with tactic. Once your are in the nasty, it can become very hard to dog. Brute and brains are both needed. But brute needs to support the brain, not the other way around.

Let me also add that simple cow calls can work and has worked for me. But maybe for ~ 1 out of 10 bulls. Then the stars must align correctly to get a shot. Those aren't very good odds in my book! Especially if you only pick up 3-4 hot bulls a season.

Swede - Just wouldn't be the same if you didn't take a shot! :-)

Once again, just my two cents!
JohnFitzgerald
 

Re: Silent Bulls and Nothing Coming In

Postby BRazz » 10 10, 2013 •  [Post 5]

JohnFitzgerald wrote:Brute and brains are both needed. But brute needs to support the brain, not the other way around.


I like it!
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Re: Silent Bulls and Nothing Coming In

Postby ORelksniper » 10 10, 2013 •  [Post 6]

I want to preface my question with some background of this years hunt.

I hunted a new (to me) area. Scouted it for 4 days in late June and found lots of elk, good cover on north facing slopes, good water, old wallows, rubs, good feed, etc. Prior to that I studied a topo of the area and spent lots of time on GE to pick spots I wanted to check out. I figured the elk would split up and spread out by the opener so I had a half dozen elky spots picked where I thought I could find 'em. The #1 spot was a heavily timbered north slope with meadows and water. Opening day arrived and so did the hunters. I knew there would be other hunters but damn. The place looked like WalMart at Christmas. Apparently, the elk didn't like all the noise (big surprise) and left. It took me 2 days to check all my "dream spots" and determine there was nothing left to hunt but squirrels and grouse. So, I did a Forrest Gump and just started running; in my case, walking. I hunted for 20 days and walked more miles than most sane people would. Most people would have moved on but not me. I knew there were elk around somewhere and I was determined to find them. All the location bugles and silent calling set ups netted me nothing. I saw 4 elk in those 20 days. No arrows sent down range. Tag soup sucks!!

Question (finally): If you are trying to find elk and nothing is responding to calls, what is the plan? Do you assume that there are no elk around and hump over the next ridge? There are tracks but until rain washes them away they can look good for quite awhile. Elk crap, no elk crap...not a deal breaker or maker for me either way. My personal issue is, I get locked in on all the elky looking spots and don't investigate places that don't fit the "Outdoor Life" elk country mold. Bad decision? Ladies and Gents, give me some feedback please. If you think I should quit hunting and take up knitting feel free to tell me. I'm a blank page and blank is the operative word I'm afraid. Thanks for your help.
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Re: Silent Bulls and Nothing Coming In

Postby JohnFitzgerald » 10 10, 2013 •  [Post 7]

The elk you seen bulls or cows? Single or were all 4 together? Did you hunt the last 20 days or the first 20 days of the season?
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Re: Silent Bulls and Nothing Coming In

Postby ORelksniper » 10 10, 2013 •  [Post 8]

Was there for the entire season. Took a day off here and there to regroup. The first 2 elk I saw we're cows traveling together. Saw those on week three. They had just come out of a small patch of timber on a south slope to feed. Evening @ 7:00. I was down slope they were up. Bad wind. The last 2 elk I saw was 5x5 with a cow. Final week of season. Evening @ 5:20. They were feeding on south slope at head of draw. Good wind but cow busted me before I could get in range.
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Re: Silent Bulls and Nothing Coming In

Postby JohnFitzgerald » 10 10, 2013 •  [Post 9]

sniper wrote:Was there for the entire season. Took a day off here and there to regroup. The first 2 elk I saw we're cows traveling together. Saw those on week three. They had just come out of a small patch of timber on a south slope to feed. Evening @ 7:00. I was down slope they were up. Bad wind. The last 2 elk I saw was 5x5 with a cow. Final week of season. Evening @ 5:20. They were feeding on south slope at head of draw. Good wind but cow busted me before I could get in range.


I'm going to stray away from the typical "...not enough elk so it's time to find a different spot" answer. :) Before you spotted him, was there any bugling by you in close proximate to the bull? Also, was he a good 5x5 or was he pretty weak?
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Re: Silent Bulls and Nothing Coming In

Postby ORelksniper » 10 10, 2013 •  [Post 10]

Thanks for not going with the stock "move on" kind of answer. There were a lot of elk in the area prior to opening day.

As for the bugling question, the answer is negative. I had moved about a mile since my last location bugle. The 5by was a relatively good bull. Not big enough to keep the cow but not a rag horn by any means. There had been much bigger bulls in the area.
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Re: Silent Bulls and Nothing Coming In

Postby JohnFitzgerald » 10 11, 2013 •  [Post 11]

I'm familiar with the area you hunt, but I won't state the name. :-) That general area has huge herds. I've seen some with up to 40 head - 60 head and managed by monster bulls.

So here's a thought. Maybe the elk are more gathered in your area then mine. I'm lucky to see a bull with more than 5 cows. Elk spread across a larger area are easier to find than one large herd. The satellites should be gathered around those bigger herds.

I've hunted some of those monsters you have. Very addicting but frustrating.

Just a thought and only my 2-cents.

p.s. 1 miles is a long walk before locate bugling again. I'd cut that at least in half.
JohnFitzgerald
 

Re: Silent Bulls and Nothing Coming In

Postby klean1 » 10 11, 2013 •  [Post 12]

My experience is people think the elk are gone, but many times they are where they know is safe....good thick cover close to food and water.

Can you not scout more?
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Re: Silent Bulls and Nothing Coming In

Postby ORelksniper » 10 11, 2013 •  [Post 13]

John, your idea of a large herd or two staying together might be right on. I have also seen sizable herds but was always under the assumption they would be broken up by competing bulls. Maybe not the case, huh?

Klean1, I agree. Elk will go where they have to to be safe, whether it's in ultra thick cover where people won't go or other places where people don't think to go. Can I scout more? Yes, and I did. After the first few days of hunting my half dozen "go to" spots and finding nothing I switched from hunting mode to scout mode. It was unfortunate I had to spend valuable hunting time scouting but ya can't hunt 'em til ya find 'em. I spent 3+ weeks scouting, and found some really sweet places, but turned up nothing. I can't say with all certainty that the elk were gone. I was just one guy trying to cover as much ground as possible, but obviously, I couldn't cover it all. It was like looking for a needle in a haystack and the needle was always moving.
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Re: Silent Bulls and Nothing Coming In

Postby JohnFitzgerald » 10 13, 2013 •  [Post 14]

sniper wrote:John, your idea of a large herd or two staying together might be right on. I have also seen sizable herds but was always under the assumption they would be broken up by competing bulls. Maybe not the case, huh?

Klean1, I agree. Elk will go where they have to to be safe, whether it's in ultra thick cover where people won't go or other places where people don't think to go. Can I scout more? Yes, and I did. After the first few days of hunting my half dozen "go to" spots and finding nothing I switched from hunting mode to scout mode. It was unfortunate I had to spend valuable hunting time scouting but ya can't hunt 'em til ya find 'em. I spent 3+ weeks scouting, and found some really sweet places, but turned up nothing. I can't say with all certainty that the elk were gone. I was just one guy trying to cover as much ground as possible, but obviously, I couldn't cover it all. It was like looking for a needle in a haystack and the needle was always moving.

Just recently, I seen a bull taken out of that area that green scored 360. The hunter shot him on an ambush, towards the end of the season, and the bull had a lot of cows. Satellites were also keeping him very vocal. Trying to find the larger herds will be your challenge of the season. But once you do.....make sure to call my cell. ;-)

P.s. The bull was shot 2 miles to the west of the area I pm'd you about. But like yours, I've seen extreme hunting pressure there as well.
JohnFitzgerald
 


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