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Which One Would You Sit?

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Which One Would You Sit?

Postby ElkNut1 » 07 10, 2012 •  [Post 1]

Look these two spots over carefully! One is an obvious wallow & the other a natural mineral area. If you had 3-4 days & had to sit one or the other which one would your best odds be had to see or take an elk at?

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Re: Which One Would You Sit?

Postby Swede » 07 10, 2012 •  [Post 2]

I like the mineral lick. You did not say when you would be sitting there and if there were well used trails coming in. It would sure be encouraging to see some good rubs close by and a good water hole. All else being equal I still like the mineral lick, but use could taper off later in the season like the wallow will.
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Re: Which One Would You Sit?

Postby CrazyElkHunter » 07 10, 2012 •  [Post 3]

The wallow appears to have fresh tracks in the mud and lower part of the wallow looks like a shoulder impression when he roled. Water is muddy which tells me it was hit in within the last 5 to 10 hours. If no cattle in the area, looks like a hot wallow. In the other picture, it looks a little old an dry for my liking. I know deer and elk like the minerals, but doesn"t look fresh to me. Pictures can be deceiving, but I would definately sit at the wallow for the early part of the archery season. ;) Image
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Which One Would You Sit?

Postby Buckriser » 07 10, 2012 •  [Post 4]

Not too sure on this one? I think I'd sit the lick. I'd tend to think the lick would get consistent hits while the wallow can be hit or miss. I'd like to see more hoof-prints in the wallows mud. Natural mineral lick for me.
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Re: Which One Would You Sit?

Postby Swede » 07 10, 2012 •  [Post 5]

I do not know if Paul has a school answer for us or not, but here are some things to consider. 1. In elk country it is not a choice between two options. If these spots are not showing consistent use, I would move on. 2. Wallows by themselves are very fickle. Some years they may never get hit. Some years they get hit once, and some years they experience significant repeat use. I have never seen one get daily or even every other day use. I have seen them get hit on a seven day cycle or just three or four times over a two week period. If the wallow has well used trails going by, it is far more likely to get repeat use than one off by itself. What I have seen with mineral licks is regular use until early in the season, then sporatic use after. It seens that the mineral lick is not the magnet after sometime in August, but they stop as they are passing by. So like the wallow, it is good to have well used trails going by the mineral lick. If the feces and tracks do not indicate recurring use, I think you are better looking somewhere totally different. If you only want a big bull then also check for large tracks and rubs nearby.
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Re: Which One Would You Sit?

Postby elkaholic » 07 10, 2012 •  [Post 6]

I would say the mineral lick. The wallow doesn't look like it has been used in a couple of days. Having said that the wallow would probably get hit first :o
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Re: Which One Would You Sit?

Postby easeup » 07 10, 2012 •  [Post 7]

I dont want to sit. If elknut puts hobbles on me, I will sit by the wallow and pout.........:)
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Re: Which One Would You Sit?

Postby mtnmutt » 07 10, 2012 •  [Post 8]

I am a newbie elk hunter, but I personally would not sit a wallow based on what I have seen or lack of seeing sign around the ones that I do see.

The mineral lick because I think I see a faint game trail slicing on the left side coming in from the trees on top of the photo.

Also, the fallen tree has the bark rubbed off pretty well.
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Re: Which One Would You Sit?

Postby elkohalic » 07 10, 2012 •  [Post 9]

If I'm there at the same time as the date on the camera it would be the wallow, in a tree stand with the wind in my favor.
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Re: Which One Would You Sit?

Postby ctdad » 07 10, 2012 •  [Post 10]

Wallow as long as I get to employ elknuts calling ideas for wallows. Some soft chuckles and raking the wallow when sit and wait.
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Re: Which One Would You Sit?

Postby WapitiTalk1 » 07 10, 2012 •  [Post 11]

ElkNut1 wrote:Look these two spots over carefully! One is an obvious wallow & the other a natural mineral area. If you had 3-4 days & had to sit one or the other which one would your best odds be had to see or take an elk at?

ElkNut1


I'm a non-comformist.. I can't sit on anything for that long, ever.... :) If I had had to sit on one of the two, it would have to be the wallow as I live for rutting bulls (cooling themselves off in a muddy puddle as they go about their late September rutting business). The natural mineral lick would certainly have bulls around as the cows they're clinging to would be snacking on the salt/minerals in the yarding area they're lilcking, but again, it's mostly a mental thing for me... Wallow? Bulls. Wallow? Hot stinky bulls. Wallow? A chance at arrowing a rutting, mud caked, hot, stinky bull :) Just my .02. RJ.. Geez, I sure love this new elknut forum.
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Re: Which One Would You Sit?

Postby eltaco » 07 10, 2012 •  [Post 12]

I just posted another thread asking how many guys sit wallows... I can't seem to get myself to do it for any length of time, and certainly not if I just happened to walk on one and have no experience with it.

In my area, I have wallows and water holes all over the place. I hit quite a few of them during scouting to see what kind of action they're seeing, and just last year used a couple of cams on them... but getting myself to sit on them would really require that I have a cam there and consistent traffic, or its the middle of the day and I have nothing better to do. LOL!

I've never seen a mineral lick in my area... so just out of curiosity I'd choose that one. I'd think to myself "maybe I found the only mineral lick out here, and the elk surely must show up any minute now" but it seems I've played that game with many scenarios and the only thing that has consistently produced for me is putting miles on my boots and angering bulls with calls... haha! One of these years I'll get an easy one at a wallow, just hasn't happened yet!
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Re: Which One Would You Sit?

Postby CrazyElkHunter » 07 10, 2012 •  [Post 13]

I guess I am a little more partial to hunting over a wallow, because 1 of the wallows I found several years ago is hit by multiple bulls every year the first 10 days of the archery season. Last year I had 5 different bulls and several cows and calves use the wallow the 1st week. And that was after I shot a bull on the 30th Of August off of it and 2 bears hitting the gut pile 40 yds away. Second week 2 different bulls hit it. The wallow is in the middle of a transition area where the elk move from hunting pressure from black timber to the oaks in the lower canyons. Cool part about it is it is only 1/2 mile from camp. One year I was cooking dinner in camp and heard one bugle from the wallow. I let out a couple of spike squeels from camp to see what he would do He screamed back at me, and I stopped so my hunting partner could go after him the next morning. 10 min later while still cooking dinner, I looked up and he was standing on the road next to camp 40 yds away looking at me.ImageImageImageImageImage
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Re: Which One Would You Sit?

Postby ElkNut1 » 07 11, 2012 •  [Post 14]

A lot of If's Ands Buts!!! (grin) Can't do that! You have to make a decision on what you see! If there were beat down trails as Swede asks, wouldn't you see very fresh use at one both or none! That's what a hunter has to establish when he comes upon these spots! Heck ya, both spots are golden when being used! When not, they're a waste of time! Looking at trails coming & going to such spots is an excellent decision maker! Again, the wallow photo was taken on Sept 24th, it had not been used for a good while, take a real good look at it, all sign is very old, there are no noticeable tracks, all mud on entire edges is getting very hard, there has been no disturbance in the wallow or its perimeter for a good week maybe 10 days! Incidentally, there was no smell at all that an elk had been anywhere near it, that's never good when checking for active use on wallows because smell can last for days! It's late in the season & wallow use tapers dramatically & that wallow showed it! As Crazyelkhunter mentioned, the 1st 2 weeks of Sept & that wallow would have been golden!

For the Mineral Lick area, now that has much more potential, it is a natural source & the elk come by it very often as can be seen in the photo! It's still tore up with nothing growing in it which shows it is getting used & rototiller-ed by the elk & it wreaked of elk stench! No doubt trails going to this had fresh tracks to it! Too mineral licks are used by all elk & wallows are not!

If I only had a few days to hunt & had to sit one or the other from the evidence I see it would be the Mineral Lick, it had all the things you look for in active use! You never know if an elk would come to that wallow again for the year, it's hard to say but there had not been any use in quite a while! In the area the wallow was found we could see elk had been in the area but they had moved on, all sign was very old! Of course I cannot give these details away or it would not take much thought on your part as to the answer or best choice! We hunters need to take these various thoughts into consideration in a close examination of an area when any spot like these is found! There are no wrong answers, just some conclusions will give you better odds of success than others! (grin)

By the way, several of you were "spot on"!!!! You, saw the "Spot" of interest then evaluated the area in your comments then came to a decision! That's what real elk hunting is all about!! (grin)

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Re: Which One Would You Sit?

Postby >>>---WW----> » 07 11, 2012 •  [Post 15]

Paul: Did you smell elk at the mineral lick? The reason I ask is because without actually seeing it in person, it looks a whole lot like a dry wallow.
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Re: Which One Would You Sit?

Postby ElkNut1 » 07 11, 2012 •  [Post 16]

Bill, yes there was elk stench in the air for sure, of course elk urine was also around & done so by several different elk. I see these types of mineral areas all over our areas, more that two dozen, many of them are just pure dust & you can really see the variety of track sizes in them much easier. In the Scouting Elk Country DVD the mineral lick in that one is very dusty & I've seen it used for 20 years now. Most dry wallows I've come across are not nearly as large as the photo above, they generally aren't that tore up either. I see no sign of rolling about & smashing the ground as bulls do in a dry wallow. Certainly a trail camera would help to be exactly sure! But from past experience it's been a mineral area. If you've ever watched elk activity in a mineral area it's quite interesting, they paw & lick & paw like they are turning up some real gems there! (grin) They walk around in them & urinate all over them, it's mostly cows but a bull accompanies them as well in most cases! I've had the privilege of watching them interact in them in the past!

I'll get lots more photos this year of wallows in early season & on as well as more of these licks & how they can look different depending on where they're at! Thanks!

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Re: Which One Would You Sit?

Postby Swede » 07 11, 2012 •  [Post 17]

WW I do not know when Paul will get back, but note in paragraph 2 he said, speaking of the mineral lick, "it wreaked of elk stench". Someone said they never have run into a mineral lick. I have never seen one like the picture shows. I have had two kinds 1. those that are man made and include mineralized salt and sometimes feed. 2. cuts in old dirt logging roads, or natural banks similar to road cuts. The ones I have seen are covered with fresh tracks and look like deer and elk milling around at a feeding station. The ground is dusty from the pawing of hoves. There is a natural lick not far from where I camp, but I can drive right up to it. It is so exposed I have never entertained putting out a camera or setting up a stand there. I have paid more attention to the licks I have made. Use at these tapers off by the opening of elk season, but elk still use them a little. I set them up near a water hole along a good trail just to increase the likelihood of having elk come to me. Note this is illegal in some States.
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Re: Which One Would You Sit?

Postby Swede » 07 11, 2012 •  [Post 18]

The following are a couple recent pictures of cows at a man made mineral lick. Use is heavy at this time of the Summer. We rarely see a bull coming to minerals at this time when they are alone in their bachelor groups. As you can see the cows can be very possessive. If you set up one of these you will need a large capacity SD card and bring in as much salt as possible each time you show. Fifty pounds of salt is not going to be wasted.
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Re: Which One Would You Sit?

Postby Swede » 07 11, 2012 •  [Post 19]

Picture #2 I think I will name that little bull "Swede", as that is what I will be on this forum with two more posts.
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Re: Which One Would You Sit?

Postby ElkNut1 » 07 11, 2012 •  [Post 20]

I don't think those are horns swede, it looks like those two cows put a couple well placed hooves on his noggin!!! (grin)

Aside from that, great photos of how elk can trample an area up! I know from experience you do not want to be struck by a flying elk hoof, one nearly broke my right arm once!

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Re: Which One Would You Sit?

Postby stringunner » 07 11, 2012 •  [Post 21]

when we talk about man made mineral licks are we talking salt blocks or loose salt as being better?
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Re: Which One Would You Sit?

Postby Swede » 07 11, 2012 •  [Post 22]

I don't think it matters much to the elk. I prefer the bagged salt. I dig a hole and pour the salt in and cover it with loose dirt and mix. Then I cover it with a little more dirt. The elk will lick the salt and the dirt. They don't care. At this site was two small salt blocks with minerals, plus some other mineralized food block. I don't know what was at Elknuts site, but I have found the big magnet is salt. By pouring it into a hole and covering it with dirt, I am disguising it from humans who if they are not knowledgable will not recognize it for what it really is. Don't worry the elk will find it. Note: rain on the salted area does not hurt. In fact I think it improves the situation.
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Re: Which One Would You Sit?

Postby CrazyElkHunter » 07 11, 2012 •  [Post 23]

Like I said, pictures can be deceiving and I can not smell the elk with the picture at either spot. :roll: Totally agree with elknut about wallows early archery season. Very rarely see any activity on a wallow after mid to late Sept. Only looking at the picture, it looked like it could be fairly active. If I walked up on it in the woods most likely I would have a better assumption. As far as mineral licks, I hunt a area that is loaded with cattle, and if there was a natural or man made lick it would be destroyed by the cattle. Several years ago I made the mistake of dumping the water from a ice chest that had rock salt in it next to camp. 50 head of cattle destroyed my camp and the hole they made looked like a crater 3 feet deep.I still do not understand why the cattle owners do not put salt blocks out for the cattle in the area we have been hunting for the last 8 years. Our old area we hunted for 20+ years had them everywhere. Been hunting areas with cattle for 35 years and never came across a natural mineral lick, but have found 100's of wallows.Image
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Re: Which One Would You Sit?

Postby ElkNut1 » 07 12, 2012 •  [Post 24]

Crazyelkhunter, you are right sir! Photos can be tricky! (grin) It's like showing photos of bulls & guessing the scores, camera angles can be very deceiving! (grin) Evaluation at the site is critical for recent activity in the area or have the elk moved on? That's really what I'm trying to get hunters to see & understand, they need to check on several things, trails, droppings, urination, elk stench, etc. This will help those to come to a solid conclusion once all matters are considered as to hunt the area or move on! Hunters that have hunted wallows or lick areas for years understand all of this, there are many who do not & those are the ones picking up the needed tid bits that may be obvious to guys like you & swede who have years of experience hunting them & what to look for! Thanks to hunters like you two you can be a tremendous asset to those thirsting for answers!

I'll get more photos of these mineral lick areas, most are all natural ones but I too have set salt around in both block & bag, I like the blocks much better!

Check this wallow out, it's a great one for us to consider even this year, it's in a breeding area less than 200yds off an old skid trail, I seriously believe other hunters have not seen this yet, I've known about it for years but haven't sat it once! It's a very good one though!

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Re: Which One Would You Sit?

Postby elkohalic » 07 12, 2012 •  [Post 25]

Swede, I bet you were glad when they came out with digital cameras. You could burn up a lot of film at that spot. Do you have the camera set on taking a pic every 10 seconds? LOL
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Re: Which One Would You Sit?

Postby Swede » 07 12, 2012 •  [Post 26]

Elkoholic, you are right about preferring the digital cameras. Now I can immediately see what the camera picked up and have no processing fee. The camera is set for one minute intervals. We picked up 634 hits in 22 days. Try that with a 35 mm camera. Ninty-five percent of the hits were elk. The remainder were deer, bear and miscl. small critters. At water holes, wallows and mineral licks you can use a slow trigger speed cheap camera, and set the interval fairly far apart. On a trail I use my Reconyx and have it set for short intervals.
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Re: Which One Would You Sit?

Postby Swede » 07 12, 2012 •  [Post 27]

Elknut, It looks like it has been at least a day and probably two since your wallow was hit. You can see the water is starting to clear up around the edges of the pool. Mud settles at different rates based on what soil it comes from. The way a person can fairly accurately determine how long it has been since it was wallowed, is to take a stick and stir the mud up again. Churn it up well like an elk would leave it, and monitor the wallow to see how long it takes to return to the same condition. Sometimes an adjacent small pool of water can be used for the same comparison. This can be a valuable test especially where you do not have a camera. If you monitor it for a while you can determine how often and when a wallow is getting hit.
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Re: Which One Would You Sit?

Postby elkohalic » 07 12, 2012 •  [Post 28]

634 hits in 22 days, 95% elk. I need to find a new hunting area LOL I cant even get that many pics of whitetails in the wildlife refuge behind my house !!
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Re: Which One Would You Sit?

Postby CrazyElkHunter » 07 13, 2012 •  [Post 29]

Elk can be strange. My favorite wallow can be torn up from a bull one day and the next before the little bit of water in it clears, cows and calves are drinking from it. A running creek with crystal clear cold running water just a few yards away. Sitting over that wallow in a tree stand I have seen some really cool things. The upper part of the wallow has 2 dead saplings with only the main part of the small trees remaining. Looks like 2 sticks. Watched elk rub there necks and glands over the sticks for up to 30 mins. Had calves play and punch at it with there hooves just to watch it pop back up like a spring. Cattle would do the same thing. All of them leaving there sent, scratching there necks and playing. To me the 2 saplings are a plus for the wallow. I'ts hard to believe they have not been broken with all the abuse they have taken. Been watching this routine for several years on that wallowImage
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Re: Which One Would You Sit?

Postby Coveyleader » 07 14, 2012 •  [Post 30]

For me, the surrounding area would tell me which would be better to sit vs a photo of a wallow or mineral lick. You could have the best wallow/water hole in the country, but if it's in a bowl and the winds do nothing but swirl hunting it would be very dificult.
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Re: Which One Would You Sit?

Postby ElkNut1 » 07 14, 2012 •  [Post 31]

Yes, the wind direction has to be right for the time of ones stay as was mentioned several times earlier. The point to the two photos was to analyze them & see which would offer ones the best success on a 4-5 day stay! The sign in the surrounding area would help in ones decision. Neither wallow or mineral area was in a bowl! I do agree bowls are tough to hunt, other methods would need to be used at that time!

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