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When To Go Right At The Bull???

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When To Go Right At The Bull???

Postby ElkNut1 » 08 15, 2012 •  [Post 1]

There are times to go straight to the bull & times not too. What helps you to decide which is which? I'm not referring to dogging the herd!

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Re: When To Go Right At The Bull???

Postby mattstanton » 08 15, 2012 •  [Post 2]

When I get close to a herd and cow call and the bull bugles I cut him off with my own bugle every time! That is my idea of going right at a bull. That and ambush hunting are the only ways I hunt!
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Re: When To Go Right At The Bull???

Postby mattstanton » 08 15, 2012 •  [Post 3]

The only time I don't go right at him is when I am not close enough. If you do from more that about 200yds away, more often than not he will round up the girls and leave.
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Re: When To Go Right At The Bull???

Postby Vanish » 08 15, 2012 •  [Post 4]

Matt, I believe Paul means to physically move in the direction of the bull. :D
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Re: When To Go Right At The Bull???

Postby pointysticks » 08 15, 2012 •  [Post 5]

if you're already pretty close, and there is enough cover?

i would "hail mary" and make some noise and move, i think. looking foward to an answer.
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Re: When To Go Right At The Bull???

Postby foxvalley » 08 15, 2012 •  [Post 6]

I like to go right at a bull when he is in "crazy" mode.(fustrated satalite) He's screaming his head off, and crashing back and forth,the best ones are when they run 100 yds. bugle, run back to the same spot, bugle, run 100 yds., come back etc. When they keep comming back to the same spot I'll get close,wait for him to take off, then run right to where he was. Or if he is just "crazy" and close, cow call all the way to him,crashing as you go. If the wind is right,it's thick, and he does'nt see you,he will let you get as close as you dare. And then.....LOOK OUT!!!
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Re: When To Go Right At The Bull???

Postby one_elk » 08 15, 2012 •  [Post 7]

It’s a great question and one I ponder as I am sitting tight and the bull is, or seems to be, moving off….but no now he is coming back….should I close the distance or wait….I usually wait and end up looking for another opportunity….
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Re: When To Go Right At The Bull???

Postby heartshotmo » 08 15, 2012 •  [Post 8]

When they first begin bugling they are herding cows. It would seem to me that if you cow call early and he responds with a bugle and chuckles you could deduce that he is trying to herd cows. He expects cows to come to him so if the cover allows for it you could move in cow calling and get as close as possible. Running with noise and cow calling should not alarm him. Seems risky, but I have heard of this working ....... :)
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Re: When To Go Right At The Bull???

Postby foxvalley » 08 15, 2012 •  [Post 9]

one_elk wrote:It’s a great question and one I ponder as I am sitting tight and the bull is, or seems to be, moving off….but no now he is coming back….should I close the distance or wait….I usually wait and end up looking for another opportunity….


Hey one_elk,
I have done the same thing,wait, and it never seems to work out. My brother in law has this nack for getting the bulls to comitt,as soon as the bull stops and seems to be looking for the elk,erik snaps a branch,and that seems to work more often than not. But if he is coming your way I would wait,if you move,he might see you.
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Re: When To Go Right At The Bull???

Postby POk3s » 08 15, 2012 •  [Post 10]

I usually go right at him when the thought in my head is, "Well I've already screwed this up....might as well see if this works" :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: When To Go Right At The Bull???

Postby ElkNut1 » 08 15, 2012 •  [Post 11]

Lots of good stuff guys! Going at a bull is a very aggressive move, it takes confidence & the understanding that he's calling you to him or he may be threatening you to stay back! Satellites do not hardly every threaten!!! They are big at retreating though! (grin) A lot depends on individual areas as some hold great bulls that are not herd bulls!

So, how do you know when it's time to put the pedal to the metal & get on them? Foxvalley touched on it!! The season is close, we need to know these things! (grin)

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Re: When To Go Right At The Bull???

Postby wapitibowman » 08 15, 2012 •  [Post 12]

If the bull appears he is tending his harem and not committing to you. You need to take the action to him and demand a response. Attempting to get close to his harem and start working the levels of threat. The best scenario is to get between him and his cows.
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When To Go Right At The Bull???

Postby RockChucker30 » 08 16, 2012 •  [Post 13]

I'd say you can go at a bull when:

1. You've got the cover to do it without being seen.
2. You've got the wind in your favor.

With those two I'd go at a bull to either give him exactly what he wants, or to give him exactly what he doesn't want.

The first scenario is a bull giving a short scream in response to your cow calls trying to call you to him.

You could run in and give some demanding or excited cow calls to get him to commit that last bit of distance.

You could also run in and call, then when he answers cut him off with a bugle. You could start working the levels of the threat here.

If you've got a partner he could stay back and give short screams while you run in and give excited cow calls. This should make the real bull think that he can swoop in and hook up the cow without risking a fight with the other bull who is still 100 or so yards away.
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Re: When To Go Right At The Bull???

Postby foxvalley » 08 16, 2012 •  [Post 14]

This is all good stuff!
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Re: When To Go Right At The Bull???

Postby otcWill » 08 16, 2012 •  [Post 15]

Honestly, this is a no brainer. I go right at the bull every time unless he is obviously coming to me. Until then, I go right at him until I get a shot. I get as close as I can and if I can't talk him in to coming my way, I go to him, every time.
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Re: When To Go Right At The Bull???

Postby ElkNut1 » 08 16, 2012 •  [Post 16]

Great stuff guys!!! Got ya all thinking!! (grin) Lots of tips here for others to glean from & I hope some are taking notes!!!

The reason for the Topic is to help some realize that elk do not ALWAYS come to us no matter how good a caller we are? Yes, it's wonderful when they do. As Matt started out with a sequence that is a variation of the Threat Level 1. But this is you calling & getting the bull to commit or react to ones calling in hopes of him coming to you!

There will be bulls that will respond well to such sequences & ones that will not! Never be willing to give up or toss in the towel because things are not going according to plan! At times we must adapt & adjust our thinking to "fit in" to an encounter! You will come across bulls that could care less about responding to a cow sound but get fired up towards your bugling, then there's times bulls will fire away at a cow sound but not a bugle, then yes there's times that all sounds get them responding very well or no sounds at all seem to phase them! In some of these instances we need to be creative! We have to take the game to them!!!

For instance, you've bugled & located a bull, you move in to 100yds or so & cow call to pinpoint him better, he responds right off but doesn't come your way! So you bugle over the top of him as he responds to your cow call in hopes he will come to hook you up & push the intruder bull away. But Nothing! He doesn't come & he shuts up after you bugled. You wait a minute & cow call & he respond right away. Here is an instance you need to take the game to him! Do not sit in a "setup" & keep calling hoping he will finally run over to you! In most cases he & his harem will go the other way. When a bull bugles or chuckles you in response to your cow calling he is trying to call you to him, when you do not do this within a reasonable amount of time he can get suspicious! Best thing to do is go right at him with wind & cover in your favor calling excitedly on mid volume, adjust accordingly as you get closer!

This same thing can apply to bugling a bull, there are times to get on him quick & bugle in an effort to call his cows away! This is especially so when a bull uses a Lip Bawl bugle after you've bugled, he's talking to his cows when this happens, he's urgently trying to gather them together for possible protection or flight if this bull (you) gets closer! This is a spot where you need to get to that area fast as he tries to call his group together & then you redirect those cows your way with similar calling! It's even a time to use variations of the Threat if needed, point is, you are adjusting your method & taking aggressive action instead of staying back & getting the bull to do all the work in hopes he'll come over to you!

Lots of scenarios can take place here, but be aggressive when needed!



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Re: When To Go Right At The Bull???

Postby ElkNut1 » 08 16, 2012 •  [Post 17]

Yes, going at elk is a huge plus! Making sure 1st they are not coming your way is important or you will meet unexpectedly & that generally goes sour very quick! (grin) The difference in running in their direction to cut the distance & calling & running in to kill them is huge!!! That's the key here!

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Re: When To Go Right At The Bull???

Postby louisianafulldraw » 08 16, 2012 •  [Post 18]

I went out two hours before shooting light and decided to hike a few miles to the spot. On the way I let out a cow call and bull responded high on top. I continued toward my spot and called this bull down. He locked up I went slient abot 30 minutes later he came out bugleing got within range and I shoot over him. Bad shoot but great experaince. GO AFTER HIM HE WILL SHOWUP
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Re: When To Go Right At The Bull???

Postby foxvalley » 08 17, 2012 •  [Post 19]

Another good time to run at a bull is if he is starting his half circle around you to get your wind. We don't seem to get a lot of hangups, but we get a lot of bulls that circle us just out of site.Hopefully you have a guy downwind before this happens. If not,the games going to be up in a few seconds,so take an angle and try to cut him off,if your lucky,and fast enough,he might stop as you are going at him now. This is your only chance to kill this bull. Most of the time,if you don't react fast enough,they are half way there and it's too late.They can move! If you are too late maybe a nervous grunt to stop him, then go right at him.You need to be very aggressive now.
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Re: When To Go Right At The Bull???

Postby ElkNut1 » 08 17, 2012 •  [Post 20]

In the situations you guys are describing you are referring to satellite bulls & their approach! When you get a Herd Bull to react & come your way, rare is the time he will work the wind, he comes in on a string!!

When going straight at the herd bull & I mean straight at him & kill him, not setup & call & make him come the last 80yds or more! (grin) There are encounters where you need to run right into his kitchen & catch him off guard!!

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Re: When To Go Right At The Bull???

Postby foxvalley » 08 17, 2012 •  [Post 21]

ElkNut1 wrote:In the situations you guys are describing you are referring to satellite bulls & their approach! When you get a Herd Bull to react & come your way, rare is the time he will work the wind, he comes in on a string!!

When going straight at the herd bull & I mean straight at him & kill him, not setup & call & make him come the last 80yds or more! (grin) There are encounters where you need to run right into his kitchen & catch him off guard!!

ElkNut1


Paul,
The last few attempts at going at him ,even though the cover was thick, I was seen. I'm going till I know I'm in bow range,am I getting too close? Or is it best to stop farther out and let him come 20 yds or so?
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Re: When To Go Right At The Bull???

Postby cody9228 » 08 20, 2012 •  [Post 22]

This is what I would like to know the answer to also.

How do you know when to stop the approach especially if you can"t see them?
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Re: When To Go Right At The Bull???

Postby ElkNut1 » 08 21, 2012 •  [Post 23]

foxvalley & cody, each situation can be different & exact decision making is not made until the distance gets to 50-60yds from the bull! If I'm heading right to him I need him vocal to maintain his exact position. As long as I'm going at him & calling he generally holds tight & is calling back excitedly. (herd bulls) (satellites are unpredictable) If I get to aprox 70yds & have not heard him call I stop!!!!! I will only move on him as I get that close & closer if I know his exact position. Sometimes we have to wait right there until he calls looking for us & in most every case he does. Now you have a great idea where he is, call right from there & slip towards him now, watch very carefully for him or any other elk. Pick out a good spot with cover such as a tree with branches growing down to the ground, brush, rocks, small knoll or whatever is there to conceal you but yet get you to bow range! This is the exciting hold your breath part!!!!! You know he's just right there & he wants you as much as you want him, when you step out be drawn back because you know he's just right there! Be ready to use a cow sound or nervous grunt if needed, you just never know what you're going to see once you are right there & you expose yourself!!!

If you are moving in & you accidentally blow out unseen elk be prepared to bugle a challenge instantly, this should bring the bull in on a run!!! Good Luck, it doesn't get much more exciting that this!!! (grin)

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Re: When To Go Right At The Bull???

Postby bullrub » 08 21, 2012 •  [Post 24]

Elknut1
when you blow the changle bugle after busting the elk, does the other bull come in because he thinks you are taking he cows.
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Re: When To Go Right At The Bull???

Postby ElkNut1 » 08 21, 2012 •  [Post 25]

Bullrub, yes in nearly every instance he comes in, when you bugle with dominance or the best bugle you can trying to influence the cows to come back the real bull generally goes nuts in another bulls presence !!! Of course this is a very close encounter as this occurs.

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Re: When To Go Right At The Bull???

Postby foxvalley » 08 22, 2012 •  [Post 26]

ElkNut1 wrote:foxvalley & cody, each situation can be different & exact decision making is not made until the distance gets to 50-60yds from the bull! If I'm heading right to him I need him vocal to maintain his exact position. As long as I'm going at him & calling he generally holds tight & is calling back excitedly. (herd bulls) (satellites are unpredictable) If I get to aprox 70yds & have not heard him call I stop!!!!! I will only move on him as I get that close & closer if I know his exact position. Sometimes we have to wait right there until he calls looking for us & in most every case he does. Now you have a great idea where he is, call right from there & slip towards him now, watch very carefully for him or any other elk. Pick out a good spot with cover such as a tree with branches growing down to the ground, brush, rocks, small knoll or whatever is there to conceal you but yet get you to bow range! This is the exciting hold your breath part!!!!! You know he's just right there & he wants you as much as you want him, when you step out be drawn back because you know he's just right there! Be ready to use a cow sound or nervous grunt if needed, you just never know what you're going to see once you are right there & you expose yourself!!!

If you are moving in & you accidentally blow out unseen elk be prepared to bugle a challenge instantly, this should bring the bull in on a run!!! Good Luck, it doesn't get much more exciting that this!!! (grin)

ElkNut1

Thanks Paul!
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