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Elk Fact/Behavior Round Robin - Concur or Bullsnot

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Elk Fact/Behavior Round Robin - Concur or Bullsnot

Postby WapitiTalk1 » 02 02, 2016 •  [Post 1]

In my neverending quest to find ways for us to talk about these big galoots, let's roll out an elk "round robin". It goes like this, someone throws out a fact or behavior trait about elk and folks will respond in their follow on posts with either "concur" if they agree or "bullsnot" if they don't. You may certainly add comments to your concur/bullsnot response if you wish. We'll try to keep it rolling along, but, please wait for at least two follow on posts to occur for any posted elk fact or behavior offered prior to moving on.

Example: RJ posts "Elk ivories are the two teeth located directly behind the top two canines". Trophyhill posts "bullsnot.. they actually are the elk's top two canines".

Should be fun..... I'll get the first one going.
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Re: Elk Fact/Behavior Round Robin - Concur or Bullsnot

Postby WapitiTalk1 » 02 02, 2016 •  [Post 2]

Elk only bed on cooler N/NE facing slopes.
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Re: Elk Fact/Behavior Round Robin - Concur or Bullsnot

Postby Indian Summer » 02 02, 2016 •  [Post 3]

Bullsnot!

They will bed in shady draws on south facing slopes sometimes too. Remember that's where the food is and they don't always run for the cover of darkness to the north slopes. I've had some great days hunting those little hiding spots on south slopes.

Also, bedding is very weather dependent. On some of the colder days you might find them out on the tip of a knoll in the sun or in a calm sunny bowl trying to catch some rays regardless of which way the hill faces.

Other than hunting pressure weather is the number one factor of where elk will bed.
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Re: Elk Fact/Behavior Round Robin - Concur or Bullsnot

Postby saddlesore » 02 02, 2016 •  [Post 4]

Bullsnot. During winter,they may bed on meadows or south slopes closest to food. During summer you can see whole herds up above timberline in just about any location
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Re: Elk Fact/Behavior Round Robin - Concur or Bullsnot

Postby Swede » 02 02, 2016 •  [Post 5]

Not true. Bullsnot.
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Re: Elk Fact/Behavior Round Robin - Concur or Bullsnot

Postby Lefty » 02 02, 2016 •  [Post 6]

Phantom16 wrote:Elk only bed on cooler N/NE facing slopes.

Bull snot
In the desert and some flatlands they lay about anyplace a sharp rock isnt poking them in the side . Ive seen plenty of elk bedded in full sunlight
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Re: Elk Fact/Behavior Round Robin - Concur or Bullsnot

Postby WapitiTalk1 » 02 02, 2016 •  [Post 7]

As elk walk, bones in their ankles make popping noises that alert other elk to their presence. Elk use this popping noise to keep in close contact while moving, and, to distinguish elk from other approaching animals.
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Re: Elk Fact/Behavior Round Robin - Concur or Bullsnot

Postby Indian Summer » 02 02, 2016 •  [Post 8]

Hmmm. You dug deep for that one. I can't say I honestly know the answer to that. So I'll take a shot in the dark and then see what others say.

I'll concur. The only reason I say that is I know that caribou make that clicking sound when they walk so I suppose it's possible that elk do too. If they do I'm sure they could use it to identify whether an approaching animal was an elk.

I know one thing for sure though. My hearing is so bad that I won't be using that method! :lol:
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Re: Elk Fact/Behavior Round Robin - Concur or Bullsnot

Postby Swede » 02 02, 2016 •  [Post 9]

It is true.
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Re: Elk Fact/Behavior Round Robin - Concur or Bullsnot

Postby Ridgernr » 02 02, 2016 •  [Post 10]

I say 1/2 true, I know they make the noise I have heard it from a bull I shot a few years ago, he did it the whole way in. Don't know what it meant and have not heard it since, so I don't believe they do it enough to use it to keep in close contact tho. So maybe " Bulldrool"
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Re: Elk Fact/Behavior Round Robin - Concur or Bullsnot

Postby Lefty » 02 02, 2016 •  [Post 11]

I havent heard it,.. but I dont know if its snot or not.

My first Montana rifle bull I heard coming from well over 900 yards., But Ive always assumed it was his hooves We have a little rat dog in the house she can make a lot of noise with her feet when shes showing off or thinks she is something special.
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Re: Elk Fact/Behavior Round Robin - Concur or Bullsnot

Postby WapitiTalk1 » 02 03, 2016 •  [Post 12]

A two part statement: Bull elk are capable of breeding at two years of age and cows come into their first estrus cycle when they are 12 months old.
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Re: Elk Fact/Behavior Round Robin - Concur or Bullsnot

Postby Swede » 02 03, 2016 •  [Post 13]

There is some bull snot in that statement. Cows reach 12 months in age in the spring, May-June. That is not the breeding season. They may be bred that following September. Some bulls breed at two years of age, but are much fewer than three year olds. Bulls are in their prime from 7-12 years of age.
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Re: Elk Fact/Behavior Round Robin - Concur or Bullsnot

Postby WapitiTalk1 » 02 03, 2016 •  [Post 14]

Swede wrote:There is some bull snot in that statement. Cows reach 12 months in age in the spring, May-June. That is not the breeding season. They may be bred that following September. Some bulls breed at two years of age, but are much fewer than three year olds. Bulls are in their prime from 7-12 years of age.


Good eye Swede. Yep, biologically, cows can't come into their first estrus cycle till at least 18 months. So yes, 12 months is bull snot. Bulls are "capable" of breeding at two years old so this part is true although a two year old whipper snapper is not going to get much action :lol:
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Re: Elk Fact/Behavior Round Robin - Concur or Bullsnot

Postby Indian Summer » 02 03, 2016 •  [Post 15]

Bull elk use their incisors, also known as ivories to make the bugling sound. That's why they are also known as "buglers".
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Re: Elk Fact/Behavior Round Robin - Concur or Bullsnot

Postby Swede » 02 03, 2016 •  [Post 16]

Bull snot. They are the canines and probably remnants of what used to be tusks.
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Re: Elk Fact/Behavior Round Robin - Concur or Bullsnot

Postby WapitiTalk1 » 02 03, 2016 •  [Post 17]

Concur...I've heard about this before 8-)
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Re: Elk Fact/Behavior Round Robin - Concur or Bullsnot

Postby Lefty » 02 03, 2016 •  [Post 18]

Cow elk can bugle!!
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Re: Elk Fact/Behavior Round Robin - Concur or Bullsnot

Postby Swede » 02 03, 2016 •  [Post 19]

Yep. I have heard them. Ok, I will stop answering these so quickly. :D
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Re: Elk Fact/Behavior Round Robin - Concur or Bullsnot

Postby Indian Summer » 02 04, 2016 •  [Post 20]

Cow elk don't mind if their boyfriend has 8 other girlfriends as long as he makes her feel attractive and appreciated?
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Re: Elk Fact/Behavior Round Robin - Concur or Bullsnot

Postby Waygoner » 02 04, 2016 •  [Post 21]

Only in Utah.
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Re: Elk Fact/Behavior Round Robin - Concur or Bullsnot

Postby WapitiTalk1 » 02 04, 2016 •  [Post 22]

If you take the field dressed weight of an elk, multiply it by 75%, it will give you the approximate boned out meat weight ;)

Edit: OK, I'll give you some digits to work with for this one. A 5 to 6 year old elk field dresses out to around 500 lbs.

Again, If you take the field dressed weight of an elk, multiply it by 75%, it will give you the approximate boned out meat weight. Concur or bull snot?
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Re: Elk Fact/Behavior Round Robin - Concur or Bullsnot

Postby Indian Summer » 02 04, 2016 •  [Post 23]

Phantom16 wrote:If you take the field dressed weight of an elk, multiply it by 75%, it will give you the approximate boned out meat weight ;)


What is this school? Math class? I'll let some smarter people answer.
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Re: Elk Fact/Behavior Round Robin - Concur or Bullsnot

Postby WapitiTalk1 » 02 04, 2016 •  [Post 24]

Indian Summer wrote:
Phantom16 wrote:If you take the field dressed weight of an elk, multiply it by 75%, it will give you the approximate boned out meat weight ;)
What is this school? Math class? I'll let some smarter people answer.


See what happens when you ditch all your math classes to go fishing and hunting :D
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Re: Elk Fact/Behavior Round Robin - Concur or Bullsnot

Postby Indian Summer » 02 04, 2016 •  [Post 25]

One time my brother got called into the principals office. About 9th grade. Wants to know why he was so late for school, again. So he tells him the truth. I check my trapline before school and I had a raccoon in one and had a hard time finishing him off.

It turned into a half hour chat about trapping. Really what did you use to kill him? How much do you get for a raccoon these days? And then eventually.... well, good luck & try to get an earlier start tomorrow. :lol:
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Re: Elk Fact/Behavior Round Robin - Concur or Bullsnot

Postby Lefty » 02 04, 2016 •  [Post 26]

Indian Summer wrote:
Phantom16 wrote:If you take the field dressed weight of an elk, multiply it by 75%, it will give you the approximate boned out meat weight ;)
What is this school? Math class? I'll let some smarter people answer.

Turn on your phone
locate the calculator app on your phone.,.. :lol:
Ok find a kid to punch in the number on your phone :lol: 8-)
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Re: Elk Fact/Behavior Round Robin - Concur or Bullsnot

Postby WapitiTalk1 » 02 04, 2016 •  [Post 27]

Edited my original post on the boned out meat question above and provided some base digits to work with..
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Re: Elk Fact/Behavior Round Robin - Concur or Bullsnot

Postby cohunter » 02 04, 2016 •  [Post 28]

New user here, and I've never commented before, but this one really piqued my interest - I'm going to call bullsnot. The bull I shot this fall I would estimate to be in that 5-6 year old range. 75% of 500 pounds is 375 pounds of meat. As it was a tough pack, we deboned the whole thing. I would estimate we had close to 250 pounds of meat. We were in a hurry (the flies were unreal) and did not attempt to take the rib meat, BUT there's no way we left 125 pounds behind! :?
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Re: Elk Fact/Behavior Round Robin - Concur or Bullsnot

Postby 2MANY » 02 04, 2016 •  [Post 29]

During the peak of the rut some cows become so desperate to get bred they will actually stand on their rear legs a flail their front hooves in the air to draw a bulls attention????
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Re: Elk Fact/Behavior Round Robin - Concur or Bullsnot

Postby WapitiTalk1 » 02 04, 2016 •  [Post 30]

Hell of a first post cohunter and you would be right! The formula is actually "if you take the field dressed weight of an elk, multiply it by 50%, it will give you the approximate boned out meat weight". So the elk you shot yielded around 250 lbs of meat; the formula for a 5-6 year old would look like this 500 X 50% = 250.

Welcome aboard mister!
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Re: Elk Fact/Behavior Round Robin - Concur or Bullsnot

Postby cohunter » 02 04, 2016 •  [Post 31]

Thank you, Sir!
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Re: Elk Fact/Behavior Round Robin - Concur or Bullsnot

Postby Swede » 02 04, 2016 •  [Post 32]

Welcome to camp Cohunter. That was a great bull you got.
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Re: Elk Fact/Behavior Round Robin - Concur or Bullsnot

Postby cohunter » 02 04, 2016 •  [Post 33]

2MANY wrote:During the peak of the rut some cows become so desperate to get bred they will actually stand on their rear legs a flail their front hooves in the air to draw a bulls attention????


I was going to wait for an expert to weigh in on this one but... I'm going to call bullsnot... I've seen cows (and does) do this often toward other cows and does, but always in territorial disputes and rarely making contact with one another. I always thought it served the social equivalent of sparring for bulls. Think of it more as a 'give me space' kind of signal than a 'come on over here, honey!' Are their ears laid back when they're behaving this way?
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Re: Elk Fact/Behavior Round Robin - Concur or Bullsnot

Postby Swede » 02 04, 2016 •  [Post 34]

SUNP0465.JPG
SUNP0465.JPG (352.92 KiB) Viewed 27843 times


As you can see, it is not exactly rut time. The monster bull is not exactly impressed either.
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Re: Elk Fact/Behavior Round Robin - Concur or Bullsnot

Postby cohunter » 02 04, 2016 •  [Post 35]

Elk gender can be established by looking only at their droppings: one end of a milk dud with a dimple and the other with a point = bull, both ends with a slightly tapered point = cow.
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Re: Elk Fact/Behavior Round Robin - Concur or Bullsnot

Postby WapitiTalk1 » 02 05, 2016 •  [Post 36]

cohunter wrote:Elk gender can be established by looking only at their droppings: one end of a milk dud with a dimple and the other with a point = bull, both ends with a slightly tapered point = cow.


As odd as this sounds, it's actually true in most cases but not always (my pop showed me this many moons ago). Concur. Along the same lines, when you can clearly see where elk have whizzed (such as in snow) cows often urinate in a splashing fashion and bull urine hits the ground in more of a concentrated stream. Again, not always but generally.
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Re: Elk Fact/Behavior Round Robin - Concur or Bullsnot

Postby WapitiTalk1 » 02 05, 2016 •  [Post 37]

To have the thermals in your favor in the elk woods, it's generally a best practice to hunt downhill in the mornings and in the evenings.
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Re: Elk Fact/Behavior Round Robin - Concur or Bullsnot

Postby Swede » 02 05, 2016 •  [Post 38]

Back to the scoop on the poop. There has been a lot of hunter theories about gender identification based on fecal matter. I think diet accounts for the differences we can see in the field. Cows and calves generally forage on more succulent grasses while bulls go to more marginal areas. I have tried to field verify some of this, but it just did not pan out when cows and bull were together. That said, my observations have been very limited, but I tried to base some of my hunting on this to no avail.
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Re: Elk Fact/Behavior Round Robin - Concur or Bullsnot

Postby 2MANY » 02 05, 2016 •  [Post 39]

Phantom16 wrote:To have the thermals in your favor in the elk woods, it's generally a best practice to hunt downhill in the mornings and in the evenings.


Bullsnotski.
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Re: Elk Fact/Behavior Round Robin - Concur or Bullsnot

Postby 2MANY » 02 05, 2016 •  [Post 40]

Swede wrote:Back to the scoop on the poop. There has been a lot of hunter theories about gender identification based on fecal matter. I think diet accounts for the differences we can see in the field. Cows and calves generally forage on more succulent grasses while bulls go to more marginal areas. I have tried to field verify some of this, but it just did not pan out when cows and bull were together. That said, my observations have been very limited, but I tried to base some of my hunting on this to no avail.



I figured it was the elasticity of the bunger that dictated the shape of the dud.
That being said I have never called in a pile of terds.
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Re: Elk Fact/Behavior Round Robin - Concur or Bullsnot

Postby cohunter » 02 05, 2016 •  [Post 41]

2MANY wrote:
Swede wrote:Back to the scoop on the poop. There has been a lot of hunter theories about gender identification based on fecal matter. I think diet accounts for the differences we can see in the field. Cows and calves generally forage on more succulent grasses while bulls go to more marginal areas. I have tried to field verify some of this, but it just did not pan out when cows and bull were together. That said, my observations have been very limited, but I tried to base some of my hunting on this to no avail.



I figured it was the elasticity of the bunger that dictated the shape of the dud.
That being said I have never called in a pile of terds.


I've heard the dimple hypothesis often - so I researched actual scientific peer-reviewed papers on the topic. Figured a biologist would want to be able to survey a herd using that method to find cow/calf/bull ratios. There is a well-established method for using number of piles to estimate populations of almost all mammals, but not for gender ID. Beyond the obvious problem of diet which can make soft or miss-shapen milk-duds, biologists observing zoo animals found shape was accurate slightly less than 70% of the time in MATURE animals - add in a bunch of youngsters and immature bulls - not suitable for a scientific study requiring 90% accuracy. Biologists are beginning to use 'piles' for studies of elk populations by sampling DNA from the mucosa - probably very accurate, but not cheap! :shock: Imagine doing that in the field :roll: The same research paper I described above determined that size was a better indicator - a very large pellet is probably a bull regardless of shape.
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Re: Elk Fact/Behavior Round Robin - Concur or Bullsnot

Postby Swede » 02 05, 2016 •  [Post 42]

Phantom16 wrote:To have the thermals in your favor in the elk woods, it's generally a best practice to hunt downhill in the mornings and in the evenings.


As stated above bull snot. In the morning and evening with the thermals going downward, it is best to be below the critters.
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Re: Elk Fact/Behavior Round Robin - Concur or Bullsnot

Postby Swede » 02 05, 2016 •  [Post 43]

cohunter wrote: The same research paper I described above determined that size was a better indicator - a very large pellet is probably a bull regardless of shape.


Hey that is kinda the way I determine which neighbor's dog left the pile in my yard. Was this the Great Dane or the Beagle? Hummm?
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Re: Elk Fact/Behavior Round Robin - Concur or Bullsnot

Postby 2MANY » 02 05, 2016 •  [Post 44]

Elk frequent old burns because they can see danger coming more easily?
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Re: Elk Fact/Behavior Round Robin - Concur or Bullsnot

Postby Swede » 02 05, 2016 •  [Post 45]

Bull snot. Good forage is available.
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Re: Elk Fact/Behavior Round Robin - Concur or Bullsnot

Postby WapitiTalk1 » 02 05, 2016 •  [Post 46]

Hunting a natural mineral lick in mid October will normally be more productive than hunting a wallow during the same time frame.
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Re: Elk Fact/Behavior Round Robin - Concur or Bullsnot

Postby Indian Summer » 02 06, 2016 •  [Post 47]

2MANY wrote:Elk frequent old burns because they can see danger coming more easily?


Yes and no. Swede has it right for the most part. But I have also seen elk in wide open burns because it was a bedding spot for years and years over generations and even though it burned the elk still frequent the spot. But... I do think they like that they can see as long as the lay of the and offers a good vantage point and the wind is right.
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Re: Elk Fact/Behavior Round Robin - Concur or Bullsnot

Postby Swede » 02 06, 2016 •  [Post 48]

I really don't know why elk sometimes bed where they do. I have seen deer and elk in clear-cuts where the smoke was still coming out around old stumps and roots. I would say they were there either for the minerals or out of habit as Joe said. We were schooled to believe the deer and elk only hung out on the edges of openings. The biologists said the tracks were heaviest along the edges and much less toward the center of a 20+ acre clear-cut. I did not try to verify that claim, but can say I have seen them in the middle of the unit bedded down. I doubt they were there for the view.
The question was not about new openings, but about "old burns. What image come to mind when someone says "old burn"? I can show you 100 year old burns on the landscape. You need to look at the surrounding timber and it becomes evident where the fire denuded the landscape long ago. I did not think that was the question either. I figured the question was referring to a 4-10 year old burn area. Usually the grasses have returned as well as forbs, brush and small trees. Again I don't think seeing out is the purpose for the elk bedding there.
Security, including escape is always important to deer and elk, but I don't think being able to see out is a part of their equation. If it was they would bed on knobs and other prominent points. Instead I have observed them in draws and around cover. Knobs and benches are used for the benefit of flat bedding spots, breezes, and escape. It appears that shade and cool air are important.
Here on the west coast, a common way to spot and stalk elk is to glass from one open road or clear-cut, and view many surrounding ones that can be seen within a couple of miles. Once you see a herd, often bedded somewhere in in another clearing, then drive around and try to slip in on them. That is a good tactic for the first few days of archery season. Soon the elk are pushed out and they no longer feel secure in old clearings.
In summary, I think elk come into these old burns to feed, and when their gut is full, they bed down where it is most comfortable, if they feel secure. If it gets too hot in the day, or we as hunters make them feel insecure, they leave for tall timber. Again it is security that is paramount.
To be fair, all I can say is, that like other here I have observed elk for many years, and make assessments based on those observations. Fully understanding elk is not only more complicated than I think, it is more complicated than I can think. :D
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Re: Elk Fact/Behavior Round Robin - Concur or Bullsnot

Postby ishy » 02 07, 2016 •  [Post 49]

2MANY wrote:Elk frequent old burns because they can see danger coming more easily?

It's all about nutritional value. After a burn more sunlight reaches the ground=higher nutritional content of the food elk eat. After the Yellowstone fires of 88 the elk population exploded within a few years due to increase in nutritional density of what they were eating.
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Re: Elk Fact/Behavior Round Robin - Concur or Bullsnot

Postby Elkonthebrain » 02 07, 2016 •  [Post 50]

Elk antlers can grow up to an inch a day in the summer time?
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Re: Elk Fact/Behavior Round Robin - Concur or Bullsnot

Postby Tigger » 02 08, 2016 •  [Post 51]

Concur. Elk antlers are the or one of the fastest growing animal parts in the world. Although my waist at Christmas time grows about 3/4 inch per day. :D
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Re: Elk Fact/Behavior Round Robin - Concur or Bullsnot

Postby 2MANY » 02 08, 2016 •  [Post 52]

Concur as well.
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Re: Elk Fact/Behavior Round Robin - Concur or Bullsnot

Postby 2MANY » 02 08, 2016 •  [Post 53]

Elk in the Rocky's often bark to fool wolves?
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Re: Elk Fact/Behavior Round Robin - Concur or Bullsnot

Postby WapitiTalk1 » 02 08, 2016 •  [Post 54]

I'll say bull snot with a side order of hoof rot on this one :D
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Re: Elk Fact/Behavior Round Robin - Concur or Bullsnot

Postby Tigger » 02 08, 2016 •  [Post 55]

You can call in elk from long distances as long as you are good with a call and keep calling every couple of minutes so they can hone in on your exact location. It takes them a number of your calls for them to pinpoint your location, so you need to keep giving it to them.
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Re: Elk Fact/Behavior Round Robin - Concur or Bullsnot

Postby cohunter » 02 08, 2016 •  [Post 56]

Bullsnot... In the area I hunt (Public land OTC) Bulls can only be described as call-shy. The ONLY bulls I've successfully called in were right under my nose to begin with. The vast majority begin moving away if the distance is between 100-300 yards... They may talk back frequently, but they don't want a confrontation with another bull or hunter. I've only had them respond favorably when I am in their comfort zone or with very quiet cow calls. A location Bugle in that 100-300 yard range or a cow call that's overly loud and any herd bull I've had experience with is moving his cows the opposite direction faster than I can chase them. This is an area I'm still really working on, but it seems that a bull will often call asking me to identify myself if they hear sounds like raking, stomping, etc... I need to be more proficient then at gentle cow calls or, if I'm close enough, a challenge. Last season I watched 3 hunters across the draw set up and then call like crazy for over an hour. It sounded like whole herd of estrus cows. At one point, a big bull popped over a ridge and watched/listened from around 300 yards before busting back out. There's no way the hunters saw him, and he showed very little inclination of coming in.
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Re: Elk Fact/Behavior Round Robin - Concur or Bullsnot

Postby Tigger » 02 09, 2016 •  [Post 57]

there were a couple of bullsnots in my post above. can anyone pick out the other not as obvious one?
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Re: Elk Fact/Behavior Round Robin - Concur or Bullsnot

Postby GobbleFarmer » 02 09, 2016 •  [Post 58]

Would it be that once you make a peep they know your location. Having to constantly call for him to find you is BS, he is going to know almost exactly where the call came from.
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Re: Elk Fact/Behavior Round Robin - Concur or Bullsnot

Postby Tigger » 02 09, 2016 •  [Post 59]

Exactly. They are uncanny in their ability to locate the source of the calls.
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Re: Elk Fact/Behavior Round Robin - Concur or Bullsnot

Postby 2MANY » 02 09, 2016 •  [Post 60]

Tigger wrote:there were a couple of bullsnots in my post above. can anyone pick out the other not as obvious one?



Tigger can't really balance on the tip of his tail?
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Re: Elk Fact/Behavior Round Robin - Concur or Bullsnot

Postby Tigger » 02 10, 2016 •  [Post 61]

tigger's tails take a load off the legs when packing elk quarters!
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Re: Elk Fact/Behavior Round Robin - Concur or Bullsnot

Postby longbowelk » 02 18, 2016 •  [Post 62]

Elk will move away from any calls made after 3:30 am till about midmorning, since they already know where all the other elk are in the area.
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Re: Elk Fact/Behavior Round Robin - Concur or Bullsnot

Postby Swede » 02 18, 2016 •  [Post 63]

I see I fell behind on this thread.

longbowelk wrote:Elk will move away from any calls made after 3:30 am till about midmorning, since they already know where all the other elk are in the area.
=Bullsnot
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Re: Elk Fact/Behavior Round Robin - Concur or Bullsnot

Postby Swede » 02 18, 2016 •  [Post 64]

OK: Elk bed only where it is relatively flat.
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Re: Elk Fact/Behavior Round Robin - Concur or Bullsnot

Postby cohunter » 02 21, 2016 •  [Post 65]

Bullsnot with a caveat: Elk love to bed on cool hillsides with the rising thermals bringing the local news BUT... they do always bed in a dished-out (and relatively flat) spot on that hill. I've never seen an elk bed that faced up or down a hill, always perpendicular.
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Re: Elk Fact/Behavior Round Robin - Concur or Bullsnot

Postby bald9eagle » 02 21, 2016 •  [Post 66]

I call bullsnot on call-shy critters. To say that an animal has become call shy is to say that they have experienced coming to a call so many times that they can tell a hunter from a cow. Bulls act like gobblers in that they do their mating call to attract the ladies. It doesn't naturally work the other way around.

The critters that we do call in are usually less experienced. They are 17 yr old boys. They will run in to try and get lucky. Older critters are like 40 year old guys. They still want it but they are willing to let it come to them. In order for an animal to develop a learned behavior that could be considered call shyness it would have had to responded to dozens of calls and gotten spooked each time.

This is my belief on turkeys as well as elk. The only animal I believe becomes call shy is waterfowl, and even then in limited instances. They have experienced being called to from Canada to Louisiana for multiple years and yet they still fall for some subtle clucks thrown at the right time. Call shy is an excuse we use when we don't understand why an animal didn't act the way we expected.
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Re: Elk Fact/Behavior Round Robin - Concur or Bullsnot

Postby Swede » 02 22, 2016 •  [Post 67]

Swede wrote:OK: Elk bed only where it is relatively flat.


I believe the statement is very true. They may bed on a steep slope, but they will find a bench to lay on. That bench may be a trail or other small spot just the size of an elk body, but I don't ever remember seeing an elk bed that was on a significant incline. It is always a flat spot.
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Re: Elk Fact/Behavior Round Robin - Concur or Bullsnot

Postby Charina » 02 22, 2016 •  [Post 68]

bald9eagle wrote:In order for an animal to develop a learned behavior that could be considered call shyness it would have had to responded to dozens of calls and gotten spooked each time.

=Bullsnot Those elk that had brains as simple as a bird were selected out of the gene pool long ago by long-extinct predators. As a result, elk are naturally "paranoid" animals. Encounters with danger are many-fold stronger in influencing behavior than any other experience, esp for the paranoid.

The term "call shy" is way to broad to define.
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Re: Elk Fact/Behavior Round Robin - Concur or Bullsnot

Postby 2MANY » 02 22, 2016 •  [Post 69]

Paranoia will destroy ya.
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Re: Elk Fact/Behavior Round Robin - Concur or Bullsnot

Postby longbowelk » 02 23, 2016 •  [Post 70]

I don't know Swede I have seen a few elk bed on slight round hill top which to my eye did not come out as level. But have seen other places where they do try to find in general on steep hillsides as close to flat as possible. Revisiting my call shy statement, here in CO yes the elk do seem to learn very quickly, so if you don't get lucky in the first few days if there is any pressure and calling associated with it the elk do develop call shyness. The calls are usually generated by hunters who have been to the local sporting good store and asked the guy behind the counter for the best call and what does the salesman usually whip out but the Primos Hooche Momma squeeze call. So yes I have seen elk move off from an area because someone was trying to sneak in and call on one of those in the early morning.
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Re: Elk Fact/Behavior Round Robin - Concur or Bullsnot

Postby WapitiTalk1 » 02 23, 2016 •  [Post 71]

Pine Marten oftentimes "ride" on an elks back to get across a stream or river.
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Re: Elk Fact/Behavior Round Robin - Concur or Bullsnot

Postby Swede » 02 23, 2016 •  [Post 72]

Phantom16 wrote:Pine Marten oftentimes "ride" on an elks back to get across a stream or river.


RJ, I am calling bullsnot on that line. Everyone knows, martin ride on the shoulders of sasquatch. Sasquatch does not shake like a dog, and throw the little martin, when they get out of the water.
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Re: Elk Fact/Behavior Round Robin - Concur or Bullsnot

Postby WapitiTalk1 » 02 23, 2016 •  [Post 73]

Swede wrote:
Phantom16 wrote:Pine Marten oftentimes "ride" on an elks back to get across a stream or river.


RJ, I am calling bullsnot on that line. Everyone knows, martin ride on the shoulders of sasquatch. Sasquatch does not shake like a dog, and throw the little martin, when they get out of the water.


:lol:
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Re: Elk Fact/Behavior Round Robin - Concur or Bullsnot

Postby WapitiTalk1 » 02 24, 2016 •  [Post 74]

The majority of rubs you encounter in the elk woods are velvet rubs and normally have little or no bearing on where elk may be frequenting come mid September.
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Re: Elk Fact/Behavior Round Robin - Concur or Bullsnot

Postby Swede » 02 24, 2016 •  [Post 75]

The majority of rubs are removing velvet. That is the area I hunt as they rub in late August, just before the archery season opens. Where there are rubs along trails into, and surrounding a water hole, is a great place to hang a tree stand. Place your stand where the trails come together near the water.
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Re: Elk Fact/Behavior Round Robin - Concur or Bullsnot

Postby Swede » 02 27, 2016 •  [Post 76]

Elk are frightened at the scent of human urine.
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Re: Elk Fact/Behavior Round Robin - Concur or Bullsnot

Postby Stick » 02 28, 2016 •  [Post 77]

Bullsnot
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Re: Elk Fact/Behavior Round Robin - Concur or Bullsnot

Postby Swede » 02 28, 2016 •  [Post 78]

Stick is very correct. The answer is "Bullsnot". I urinate out of my stand as often I I have the urge. It is never a problem. I have had der eat the bushes I urinated on not more than ten minutes earlier. I had a bear walk under my stand and have no reaction to the urine it just walked over. It did take some offence when I urinated directly on it, but that is another story.
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Re: Elk Fact/Behavior Round Robin - Concur or Bullsnot

Postby Charina » 02 28, 2016 •  [Post 79]

The new, all natural, cover scent?

I'm still going to kick a hole in the forest duff to urinate in.
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Re: Elk Fact/Behavior Round Robin - Concur or Bullsnot

Postby WapitiTalk1 » 02 29, 2016 •  [Post 80]

Bull's oftentimes close their eyes when rubbing a tree.
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Re: Elk Fact/Behavior Round Robin - Concur or Bullsnot

Postby Stick » 02 29, 2016 •  [Post 81]

Concur........if seen elk rub in places that if their eyes weren't closed they wouldn't have had eyeballs when they got through.

More to your point though have you ever rubbed a pigs belly with a stick or a dog behind the ear? Aaahhhhhhh they seem to say!
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Re: Elk Fact/Behavior Round Robin - Concur or Bullsnot

Postby Swede » 02 29, 2016 •  [Post 82]

I tend to agree for the same reason Stick states, but I don't remember reading that, or seeing it myself.
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Re: Elk Fact/Behavior Round Robin - Concur or Bullsnot

Postby WapitiTalk1 » 03 07, 2016 •  [Post 83]

Elk will always avoid bedding in an area that has a lot of blow down timber.
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Re: Elk Fact/Behavior Round Robin - Concur or Bullsnot

Postby Swede » 03 07, 2016 •  [Post 84]

Bullsnot. They seem to love places like that.
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Re: Elk Fact/Behavior Round Robin - Concur or Bullsnot

Postby js80138 » 03 07, 2016 •  [Post 85]

Elk will move away from any calls made after 3:30 am till about midmorning, since they already know where all the other elk are in the area.


Back to this question. Last year the elk sang all night to the point you couldn't sleep. Daylight came and not a peep. This occured on consecutive nights at the end of archery for almost a week. What suggestions do you have to handle this situation.
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Re: Elk Fact/Behavior Round Robin - Concur or Bullsnot

Postby Swede » 03 08, 2016 •  [Post 86]

Hunt where you heard the elk at night. Most elk breeding occurs at night. At that time of the season, find a good location in the area, and cold call using breeding sounds. The elk will be nearby first thing in the morning, so you may draw something to the sounds of a cow in heat and a bull thrashing a nearby bush.
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Re: Elk Fact/Behavior Round Robin - Concur or Bullsnot

Postby WapitiTalk1 » 03 08, 2016 •  [Post 87]

js80138 wrote:
Elk will move away from any calls made after 3:30 am till about midmorning, since they already know where all the other elk are in the area.


Back to this question. Last year the elk sang all night to the point you couldn't sleep. Daylight came and not a peep. This occured on consecutive nights at the end of archery for almost a week. What suggestions do you have to handle this situation.


Yep, it happens even in unpressured areas. Why? Who knows (mysterious mountain lockjaw, predators/wolves moved in, hunting pressure, drastic weather change, etc.) but I find that there is a lull in the action almost every year I hunt whether it's them just going silent during the day, or, going silent almost completely... the good news is that it doesn't seem to last more than a few to a handful of days. So what to do? Locate them using their vocalizations at night, hunt them in the morning (as Swede mentioned). Oftentimes, this doesn't happen from your lazy boy camp chair. Head out with your team, split up to different areas, and sit spots over looking draws, basins, opposing side hills, or adjacent ridges and sit and listen. Once vocal elk are located, back out and figure out how to get where they were at first light. Once you get close, or, have patterned an intercept spot... then make a plan to either ninja in, lay in wait for them to pass, or, use some well chosen elk sounds to perhaps solicit a response. BLUF, even when it seems the "cat got your tongue phenomenon" has taken hold on the indigenous elk pops, they "will" react when you get in close to them and start a conversation.
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Re: Elk Fact/Behavior Round Robin - Concur or Bullsnot

Postby WapitiTalk1 » 03 08, 2016 •  [Post 88]

Swede's home office is located in a tree stand in his yard.
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Re: Elk Fact/Behavior Round Robin - Concur or Bullsnot

Postby js80138 » 03 08, 2016 •  [Post 89]

Thank you for the response. Additionally thank you to everyone on here for the conversation. This is my go-to online resource for any question I have before, during and after big game season.
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Re: Elk Fact/Behavior Round Robin - Concur or Bullsnot

Postby GobbleFarmer » 03 08, 2016 •  [Post 90]

Phantom16 wrote:Swede's home office is located in a tree stand in his yard.

Bullsnot! No one's office could be as comfortable as his stands are said to be! :lol:
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Re: Elk Fact/Behavior Round Robin - Concur or Bullsnot

Postby Swede » 03 09, 2016 •  [Post 91]

I'm not saying where I am now in my office, but just don't walk under my stand. :D
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Re: Elk Fact/Behavior Round Robin - Concur or Bullsnot

Postby Mathewsz7-elkridge » 03 31, 2016 •  [Post 92]

Putting black pepper on your game bags helps keep the flies away!
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Re: Elk Fact/Behavior Round Robin - Concur or Bullsnot

Postby WapitiTalk1 » 03 31, 2016 •  [Post 93]

Mathewsz7-elkridge wrote:Putting black pepper on your game bags helps keep the flies away!


Concur (doesn't keep em all away but it helps). Used black pepper for many years. I've found that chili powder works a bit better.
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Re: Elk Fact/Behavior Round Robin - Concur or Bullsnot

Postby lamrith » 03 31, 2016 •  [Post 94]

Phantom16 wrote:
Mathewsz7-elkridge wrote:Putting black pepper on your game bags helps keep the flies away!


Concur (doesn't keep em all away but it helps). Used black pepper for many years. I've found that chili powder works a bit better.

I have been hearing that too, and also the yellow jackets for those in regions they are prevalent it becomes pretty much manditory.

Does it affect meat/flavor at all? Is it put on the meat or on outside of bags? I Would think if it is on the meat, then over any amount of time the chili would be absorbed just like a marinade or dry rub and alter the flavor? Or is it primarily just to get to camp/processor where it is rinsed off before enough time to change flavor?
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Re: Elk Fact/Behavior Round Robin - Concur or Bullsnot

Postby WapitiTalk1 » 03 31, 2016 •  [Post 95]

Chili powder (or pepper) is not used in a quantity enough to really flavor the meat (I imagine you'd really have to coat it on to do that). I sprinkle it on the exposed meat during/after boning out to help keep insects off, and, I'll also sprinkle a good amount on the meat bags once the meat is in them. Chili powder is a deterrent, not an all out 100% effective anti-insect measure. I know some guys use a citric spray mixture with good results also.
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