Efforts Begin to Forcibly Place Wolves in Colorado

[WapitiTalk1]

And so it begins.....in the elk state with the largest Wapiti herd.

https://elknetwork.com/effort-begins-to-forcibly-place-wolves-into-colorado/?fbclid=IwAR3XIGkGC3ghTmVTYRRXutbe7ouGzN8AUuZJJghKQC5zf8Q_EW77sbR9eu8

[wawhitey]

And so it begins.....in the elk state with the largest Wapiti herd.

Not for long

[Swede]

I really don't like seeing people characterized as "forcibly" placing wolves or anything else. The public has both the right and the opportunity to weigh in on these plans.
This reminds me of the days when I was a timber planner for the Forest Service. I planed and prepared timber sales for a few years. Some people depended on the sale of timber for their livelihood and it was a major tool in keeping the forests healthy and producing. Of coarse some opposed our efforts and likened us to jack booted thugs. Salvaging fire killer timber was actually likened to raping a burn victim.
West of the Cascade range, lack of timber harvest has had a far greater affect on deer and elk populations than the predators have. Clear-cuts that brought out fresh forage are a thing of the past. Now the only thing bringing out new forage are sporadic fires.
I can assure anyone that wants to consider the matter that there are a lot more people out there that support wolves in the forests than don't. We need to be a lot smarter than we were in dealing with the environmentalists on the timber issue. We lost big time, and I do not see congress coming to the rescue any time soon. They know where the majority is on these issues.

[saddlesore]

I can tell you right now, if it gets to the ballot it will pass? Liberals in Denver and Boulder outnumber the remainder of the state.It's the same reason this governor we have now got elected.
If the Electoral College goes away, you will see the same thing. Los Angeles, San Francisco, and New York city will control the government.

I's not about getting smarter,it is about people needing to get out and vote

[Swede]

Absolutely no offence, but I believe people are very mistaken about how this whole fandango works. Big money will buy the media airways so grandma, soccer mom and fellow wearing a necktie to work will be totally outraged if the fish and game department starts siding with the hunters. Even some hunters and a lot of blue collar workers will see it their way. We have had the advertisements here in Oregon re: the bears and cougars. The hunters looked like a bunch of savages on television. There is plenty of footage of slob hunters so anyone interested can run an effective television ad campaign.
People rant about the "liberal media", but that is not the real issue. The vast majority of the media is coming form large corporations or billionaires. I can assure you that it was not the hippies and environmentalists wearing knickers and tennis shoes that shut down the sale of timber on federal land. It was big money, the large timber corporations, and they were celebrating in the boardrooms when they saw the competition taken out. At that time much of the working part of the Forest Service knew they were doomed as far as their career in timber management was concerned. Did anyone care? I don't think very many people even noticed.

[>>>---WW---->]

As hunters, ranchers, farmers, and all others that care about our wild lands and wildlife, JUST HOW STUPID ARE WE!!!!!!!

If wolves get introduced in Colorado it will be because of a ballot initiative. So why can't someone come up with a ballot initiative of our own. Something that would grant the Colorado Parks and Wildlife all authority in all wildlife management issues. This would be to include ALL issues both past, present, and future.

[Swede]

I think something along the lines of what WW said should be done. Also limit the introduction and management of all nonnative species so that they will not adversely impact native species. The Canadian Grey wolf is a nonnative species.

[Indian Summer]

You guys with your logical ways of thinking haven’t seen what I have. Forcibly is a pretty accurate word. Voting has nothing to do with the way wolves are managed. It’s crooked politics. In Montana wolves didn’t win squat! One judge... judge Malloy, friend of our enemies slammed his gavel and it was a done deal. Furthermore the problem isn’t just the initial introduction... the release of the bastards... it’s the total lack of management. They come up with reason after reason why the poor wilves should be left to flourish. Lack of genetic diversity, management plans that don’t meet “their” criteria. Montana Fish Wildlife and Parks had no say in how the wildlife was managed. If that isn’t having an apex predator that decimates elk, deer, and moose forcibly shoved down our throats I don’t know what is!

[saddlesore]

Although voting has nothing to do with management, if the issue does or does not pass makes VERY big difference in the outcome. We all know the results if it does pass and none of them are good.

[Swede]

If I remember right the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service planned and purposed to put Canadian Grey wolves back into the Yellowstone ecosystem (National Park). They were sued and the judge ruled against the plaintiffs who were trying to stop the reintroduction of wolves. If the plaintiff thinks the judge was wrong, they can appeal. Apparently no one thought they law was misinterpreted, or the court of appeals rejected their petition.
No judge puts out some divine decree and forces law abiding people to just do their bidding. Judges decide cases and render verdicts, including the assessment of damages based on the merits of the case, and the law. I have been to court a few times. When we lost, I did not blame the judge. We did not make our case adequately.

[Elkduds]

Nothing congregates and motivates people like a crisis or threat. I would like to see large, organized crowds of wolf opponents @ every pro-wolf rally in CO, making well-reasoned arguments. FWIW, CO's best wolf habitat is fragmented, w human activity all through it. I can see no place in CO that resident wolves would not conflict w human activity, which only means dead wolves and angry humans. I agree w WW that CPW recommendations against wolf reintroduction ought to be the authority. If that means legislating the issue, then so be it. Influence from outside CO to place wolves here is the greatest risk IMO. Did you know public land advocacy group Backcountry Hunters and Anglers refuses to take a position on wolf reintroduction? They told me, "We avoid those wedge issues." As a member of BHA, that disturbs me.

[Swede]

I think the hunting/ranching organizations of Colorado may affect some change in the USF&WS plans by writing all of their State and Federal elected officials and sharing their concern about the introduction of the Canadian Grey wolf.
The points that could be brought out are that the Canadian Grey wolf is a nonnative species. It endangers the native elk herds that are currently healthy and support a multimillion dollar hunting and tourist industry. It brings in people from many parts of the United States, and from outside of the U.S. The Canadian Grey wolf has not stayed where the USF&WS claimed it would, but is now found as far west as California. If the introduction of wolves into Colorado takes place they could endanger the Mexican wolf that is an endangered native species that much effort and expense has been used to save. Also there are alternatives that can be cost effectively used to meet the land management objectives stated by the USF&WS.

[Indian Summer]

Say or think what you want. Just like we can’t get rid of corruption in politics votes will change nothing. Like water flowing downhill they will take another path and eventually achieve their goal. They are relentless and never stop pushing. Nobody could stop it in any other state and Colorado won’t stop it either.

[saddlesore]

Unfortunately Joe, I think you are 100% correct.

[Indian Summer]

I used to have faith that justice would prevail. I accepted the release of wolves along the Montana/Idaho border. It wasn’t just an article or news story I saw either.... I would actually see and hear wolves regularly. I was tolerant. I decided we could coexist and never shot a wolf. I actually enjoyed observing them. Pretty darn cool! But then there got to be more and more. They became brave and did as they pleased chasing horses and mules through portable electric corals and eventually preying on cattle sheep and horses in populated areas.


Then it became past the point of needing a management plan and the anti hunters, that’s what pro wolf people are, filed a lawsuit saying there wasn’t yet enough genetic diversity in the wolf population to cull a single one. Then it was their agenda to get wolves back onto the endangered species list which worked even though there are a million of them across Canada. Alaska, and the Yukon. All the while the results of the wolves was obvious. Idaho’s elk populations were decimated. Same with western Montana and we lost our tags for elk as well as deer. The Yellowstone elk herd was down by 90%. But as long as the antis put their cases in front of the right judge our fish and game departments had their hands tied. The Elk Foundation was helpless too. The anti hunters in this country have money. Lots of it. They also have time since it’s a full time job for their directors and attorneys.

As the saying often goes.... if little guys like us are hearing about it then it’s probably already a done deal. If you live or hunt in Colorado prepare for some changes. Less elk and deer. Elk that don’t bugle. And if you get the chance to do some wildlife management of your own seize the opportunity. Wolves are smart so you may never get another chance to do your part.

PS.... if you hear them howling I can tell you they will come in to cow calls. But they don’t travel alone so make sure you have etes on the back if your gead and be ready.