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Changing My Mind

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Changing My Mind

Postby Swede » 09 16, 2019 •  [Post 1]

As a tree stand hunter I definitely see things from a different perspective than most of you. Waiting in a stationary platform high in a tree is different that running and gunning or any other hike and hunt method of chasing elk. Therefore I consider it only natural that I may come to different conclusions on some things based on different circumstances and experiences. As much experience as we may think we have, it is never enough to be too dogmatic about many things. After all we have not see hundreds or thousands of examples where a particular situation played out. We have seen it a few times and may have jumped to the conclusion based on only a few similar incidents.
I still remember the fellow I referred to as the "one elk wonder" who was going to write a book on how to get elk based on his single success. He may have had a great story and was rightfully proud of his accomplishment, but it seemed presumptuous, in my opinion to start a How to book. I wish he was still around as he probably could help with this thread.
What I as wondering and wanting to find out is; have you changed your mind on any significant point about elk hunting? What have you learned that has caused you to rethink some previously formed opinion. Explain if you can.

Here are a couple of things I have had to re-think:

I have posted in the past that a elk that has been shot will follow the herd as long as possible then turn to the side from following when they can no longer stay with them. The direction they turn is to the side the arrow entered them. If they were hit on the left side they will turn to the left and die shortly thereafter. I observed that on several animals, but now I have seen where they did not turn in the direction I expected. My theory has been ruined as an absolute. It may still have some probability.

After studying the matter I am starting to think the spine shot from a tree stand is really more risky than I initially concluded. The reason I see it differently is because the with of the vulnerable spine area is significantly narrower that I first thought. I first believed it was 4-5 inches wide. Now I am being told it is not much more that one inch wide.
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Re: Changing My Mind

Postby Indian Summer » 09 16, 2019 •  [Post 2]

In the beginning I think lots of people think that spooked elk run really far. I’ve found that not to be true. They leave the danger behind and stop to get back to what they were doing. Perhaps just over to the next ridge.

At one point when I was outfitting I hung some stands. I was thinking that some of my out of shape hunters could use them instead of taking days off or my other hunters who wore themselves out. I knew the travel routes and water holes really well. But nobody ever killed an elk from those stands. I sat in some of them myself and never killed anything. I decided that stands caused elk to avoid the area.

I used to think I had to be in great shape physically to kill elk. I found out that knowing my area and being in good mental shape was actually better. I actually found out that being confident because I knew my area gave me the ability to cover the ground I needed to.
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Re: Changing My Mind

Postby Indian Summer » 09 16, 2019 •  [Post 3]

The other thing that gives me the strength to get it done is actually seeing elk. Adrenaline is a good thing. So I’ve gravitated to more open country. Now I cannot imagine waiting for elk to come to me. I see them, I close the distance, and figure out how to get a shot. If possible I set up in front of them to ambush. If not I’ll catch up to them. But either way locating animals and making it happen is my preferred method and I find it to be fun.
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Re: Changing My Mind

Postby Swede » 09 16, 2019 •  [Post 4]

I fully understand the desire to stay on the ground and move around. You will see far more elk that way. I see elk every 4-5 days on average.
If you are not seeing elk up close at least once a week you have a poor location. If you are just impatient, then you need a good book to read. I had a great read about Frank Glaser Alaska's Wolf Man this season. Incredible story about a man that lived 40 years in the wilderness of Alaska. The book was very educational too, but not much for strictly elk hunters. The problem with the Wolf-man book was that it was finished long before the hunt.
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Re: Changing My Mind

Postby Indian Summer » 09 16, 2019 •  [Post 5]

If you see elk every 4-5 days that’s only twice in a 10 day hunt. You must have the patience of a nun! I’d lose my mind.
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Re: Changing My Mind

Postby Swede » 09 16, 2019 •  [Post 6]

Just 4-5 days is a piece of cake. I will take that for any hunt. When I was in Idaho with RJ, I hunted every day except maybe one, and finally saw my first elk in the middle of the last week. I have had other hunts where I went over two weeks without seeing even one elk. The average for me is about every 4-5 days. Patience. :D
The difference is that I can usually kill the elk I see when they come in if I want to.
BTW: I doubt there are many nuns that can stay in a stand 10-13 hours each day and not get out. They would be like the buzzard that said "Patience; forget it, I am getting out of here and killing something".
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Re: Changing My Mind

Postby Indian Summer » 09 17, 2019 •  [Post 7]

Ok how about the patience of a Monster no.


“I shall await the arrival of the spirit animal”
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Re: Changing My Mind

Postby Lefty » 09 17, 2019 •  [Post 8]

I’ve changed greatly as an outdoors man some may understand

My younger years I was all about filling the truck with fur. Edible game it was kill kill kill numbers
I had bought a few elk tags after I was married, my father in law was a big influence
I was more successful than most. But hunted elk with a rifle and hunted much like I hunted white tails as a. Kid

Then 9 years back my buddy introduced me to elk,
I had grown up next to an Olympic archer and shot. A lot as a 13 and 14 year old
After seeing bulls in the desert while antelope hunting I thought of giving it. A try
I bought Dave’s set up my shoulder was messed up. From work and trapping but I could pull a compound
I started elk hunting on water from a blind
I did not at the time realize how incredibly lucky or skilled I was finding and seeing elk

Now to the past few years
My father, four uncles, two aunts, all died in their mid 50s my brother at 48
And my wife doesn’t want that happing to me
In reality this has been an ongoing spiritual journey too
Some surgeries andDr conclusions and I had an more in-depth perception of life
My wife was a hunter my daughters were active hunters and spending time with them became the priority
Quality time making memories what ever you want to call it
But spending earthly time with family and friends is the priority
So sitting at a water hole isn’t it
Because of archery talk and this site transformed me into having an active companion hunting, having experiences with loved ones is priority
As I mentioned I was about kill kill kill
After the docs told me I should have been wheel chair bound years ago and shouldn’t be able to stand and was a freak of nature
I’m physically slower and hunt slower

However everyday I hunted last week I did 1000 foot elevation( one way) not that many miles 4-7 and I am thankful to my Father in Heaven for every step
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Re: Changing My Mind

Postby Swede » 09 17, 2019 •  [Post 9]

I.S. send your guru out with me and we will see if he really has what it takes. :lol:

Lefty: excellent story. I strongly suspect you get as much game going only a few miles hiking as those that travel far more.
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Re: Changing My Mind

Postby Indian Summer » 09 17, 2019 •  [Post 10]

I think he would Swede. Only you and a guru could do that though. If there comes a day where I am unable to cover ground in the mountains I will certainly join you. I would hope that all of the ground I have covered prior to that will show me the right place to sit and that my knowledge of what’s going on in the big picture surrounding that spot will give me the confidence to stay put.


Just so you know I am no stranger to your way of thinking. When it comes to deer hunting in Pa I am a stationary hunter. I smile and even laugh at the guys walking around hoping to sneak up on a buck AND actually get a shot at it. The thought of moving never even crosses my mind unless it’s just to go sit in another stand. Like you I know that when I do see a deer chances are it will be calm, it won’t see or smell me, and I’ll get a good shot.

One time I was bear hunting with friends in New Brunswick. My friend Marco is a bit impatient. His dad Marcelle is very patient. Thinking I may be like his son he said to me you can’t kill a bear in the tent JoJo. The more time you spend in your stand the better your chances. He sat with me that day because Marco had to work. We slipped into our trees in the dark. I never flinched and we climbed down in the dark. He was happy... and amazed. “Holy smokes JoJo you really took me serious. I have never seen a man sit like that for so long” I get a kick out of outsitting people. :lol: My deer hunting gave me the patience to do it and the knowledge that it pays off.
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Re: Changing My Mind

Postby Lefty » 09 17, 2019 •  [Post 11]

Swede wrote: I strongly suspect you get as much game going only a few miles hiking as those that travel far more.
Well I find closer access than many. Maybe its permission from private ground, An ATV trail,.. or open country we can drive on
Those little nooks and putting in a different effort than others
When I was in Washington State I deer hunted some incredible country. most hunters would hike down the 2-3000 foot elevation,.. I found places to cross the wild rivers. I really want to get away from others interference.

I.S. My dad could sit on a whitetail stand all day, not me,.. ever

I still like moving around.
It is shortly after two. My hunting companion tracked himself today,..11.3 miles so far. That was me years back too
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Re: Changing My Mind

Postby Indian Summer » 09 17, 2019 •  [Post 12]

Swede I don’t necessarily get far from the truck. It’s just that when I get where I’m going I take that extra step. Instead of ridge running I drop down to the benches. The ones on the opposite side of the hill from the truck. Or I climb up another 1000 feet in elevation. But as the crow flies it’s only another 3/4 of a mile. It’s definitely not about distance. It’s about obstacles that require commitment. Going one step further than those who say this looks good, or this is far enough. It’s amazing what’s just another 1/2 mile beyond that.
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Re: Changing My Mind

Postby Swede » 09 17, 2019 •  [Post 13]

I think I.S. makes an important point. Sometimes going just a little farther is that sweet spot. Sometimes it is near by. Dropping down off the ridges is important.
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Re: Changing My Mind

Postby >>>---WW----> » 09 18, 2019 •  [Post 14]

Hey! There is nothing wrong with any style of elk hunting. Different strokes for different folks!

I can remember well growing up in southern Illinois, hunting whitetail deer before tree stands were invented. We climbed up in a white oak tree and found a half comfortable limb to sit on. :) I can still see that great horned owl sitting on a limb not 3 feet over my head. Never heard him land and never heard him take off. Man! Those things are silent. And then there was that squirrel that ran across my legs as I sat there all camoed up in Gods great outdoors. Those were some great memories for sure.

But when it comes to elk hunting, for me there is nothing greater than to challenge a bull and have him come in to my calls. If I couldn't call them in, I wouldn't even bother hunting them. There is just something special about beating an elk at his own game on his own playing field. I tried rifle hunting a few times and found it did nothing at all for me. Shooting a bull at several hundred yards didn't yank my crank at all. Outside of putting some blood shot meat on the table, I could get just as much enjoyment punching paper it the rifle range. But if that's your bag, go for it.

Like I said, "There is nothing wrong with any style of elk hunting"!
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Re: Changing My Mind

Postby saddlesore » 09 26, 2019 •  [Post 15]

I have spent a lot of seasons not seeing elk until the last few days.This year I saw one bull mid season and then one cow 7 days after the season opened and killed it. I have killed more elk later in the season than opening day.The more hunting pressure, the harder the elk are to come.Elk move around and are pushed by other hunters to areas they feel secure. That might be just over the next ridge or it might be two drainages away. It depends on how many hunters they run in to. Where you might not see any elk for 5-6 days, you might very well see 20-30 or more the 7th day.

Where hunting pressure is greater,you have to tune your hunt to what the elk do because of other hunters not what they do when not hunted much. Because of the growing numbers of archery hunters,many of them still try to hunt like they are the only ones in the woods and cannot adapt to this.
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Re: Changing My Mind

Postby Roosiebull » 09 27, 2019 •  [Post 16]

i'm always changing my mind.... though I don't think that's really accurate since I never had my mind made up. of all the fishing and hunting I have done, one big conclusion I have made are learning absolutes will stunt your learning... I will pay attention to patterns, but never deem them absolutes in my head.... i'm not trying to learn an absolute that day, i'm trying to kill an elk (fish, deer, sea urchin... whatever) the absolutes won't matter, and may even lead me astray.

there are things that matter, and things that don't.... those things are always changing in different scenarios, or even the same one.... I feel there are always too many variables to create absolutes, so I don't worry about them an stay open minded. I feel most people who have it all figured out in their dogmatic approach never get that good at it.

the ones who keep an open mind, and never lock into their own theories keep getting better at whatever they're doing
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Re: Changing My Mind

Postby Swede » 09 27, 2019 •  [Post 17]

Well said Roosie. There are very few absolutes with wildlife. "Always", "never", "will" and "won't" are words to use with caution.
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Re: Changing My Mind

Postby Trophyhill » 10 15, 2019 •  [Post 18]

I look at hunting elk with my bow and calls as a fluid type of hunting. What works one minute, may not work the next. Therefore the more versatile of a hunter I can be, the more opportunities I am going to have, and the better my odds of being a successful elk hunter. I would like to think that I am getting better with age and becoming a well rounded hunter knowing full well that I have a lot to learn. There's more than 1 way to skin an elk. I hate it when I see advice where guys are adamant that their way is the best or only way. It simply isn't true.
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Re: Changing My Mind

Postby Swede » 10 15, 2019 •  [Post 19]

I agree Trophy. We need to adapt to different situations, and don't be too dogmatic about a theory. If a person has killed 100 public land, OTC elk, they surely know more than the guy that has killed only two, but they still don't know everything.
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