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Kittitas trophy 8x8 bull poached

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Kittitas trophy 8x8 bull poached

Postby lilshootergirl » 10 18, 2019 •  [Post 1]

October 12th a man. Shot a bull accidentally? Really? This occurred In the Kittitas, Washington area. The poacher tries to drag a stranger into helping him hide it Really? As a hunter we must make sure of our Target, even if it means losing it. I really hope this guy gets caught. I'm glad most of the meat went to feed Some families.

The witness did the right thing calling F&G.

Here's a link: http://www.ifiberone.com/columbia_basin/wdfw-police-investigating-after-trophy-bull-elk-poached-in-kittitas/article_361a49d6-ef78-11e9-a24e-6b0d032e4672.html
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Re: Kittitas trophy 8x8 bull poached

Postby WapitiTalk1 » 10 18, 2019 •  [Post 2]

Saw that. Sickening.
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Re: Kittitas trophy 8x8 bull poached

Postby RAMMONT » 10 19, 2019 •  [Post 3]

I just got banned at another forum for pointing out the illegal activity of one of the posters, it's nice to see that you guys actually let people point a finger at illegal activities without a negative response.

At the other site a poster mentioned that while hunting elk in Montana he received a text from another member of his hunting party about being on top of a nice bull, the poster killed that elk later that day after coordinating the hunt with the guy that texted him - that's flat out illegal in Montana and has been for years but I was ridiculed by everyone of the other posters and now I can't log on to the sight.

So again, I'm glad to see that you guys encourage discussions about illegal hunting. It's not uncommon for a hunter to hunt without really knowing the rules and regulations and some illegal acts are committed out of ignorance so talking about these issues on a public forum is a good way to spread the word about what can get us in trouble and what wont. I feel that any hunting forum that stays silent about illegal hunting activity is guilty of not reporting those illegal acts and should be held accountable legally.
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Re: Kittitas trophy 8x8 bull poached

Postby Swede » 10 19, 2019 •  [Post 4]

It is just fine to point out legal requirements. That can be helpful for those that may not know or remember some fine point in the law.
It is interesting to read some accounts of people arrested and/or convicted. It is a good reminder, and I like to knw the bad guys do not always win.
I do not find people here advertising they just poached an animal. Please be careful not to incite members with accusations over something that may be just a misunderstanding. Send them a PM if you are concerned over something that you think is a legal problem. Like I just said, I have never read a post by a member of this or any other forum boasting about poaching any animal.
Forums want members. They do not want to ban anyone. Folks get banned to protect the forum as a whole. WapitiTalk is more like family that most forums, and we want to keep it that way.
Forums do not want poachers boasting about some illegal activity. I do not know where you were banned and don't care to know. Just be careful about accusing folks of doing something illegal.
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Re: Kittitas trophy 8x8 bull poached

Postby Swede » 10 19, 2019 •  [Post 5]

This is meant to be an addendum to my post above. Everyone of you members, and those that just lurk here are appreciated here. Please, if you see something that appears to be seriously unethical or illegal, notify WapitiTalk1, or one of us moderators. We will deal with the matter expeditiously. Also notify the appropriate law enforcement agency where appropriate. You should decide if something merits law enforcement action. Like I said above, we don't normally have folks coming on and talking about some illegal activity they were involved with.

This I know: I have read things here that I PMed the author and found they did not mean things the way I took them. The matter was taken care of. Once it meant the author just edited the post. That was appropriate.
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Re: Kittitas trophy 8x8 bull poached

Postby jmez » 10 22, 2019 •  [Post 6]

RAMMONT wrote:I just got banned at another forum for pointing out the illegal activity of one of the posters, it's nice to see that you guys actually let people point a finger at illegal activities without a negative response.

At the other site a poster mentioned that while hunting elk in Montana he received a text from another member of his hunting party about being on top of a nice bull, the poster killed that elk later that day after coordinating the hunt with the guy that texted him - that's flat out illegal in Montana and has been for years but I was ridiculed by everyone of the other posters and now I can't log on to the sight.

So again, I'm glad to see that you guys encourage discussions about illegal hunting. It's not uncommon for a hunter to hunt without really knowing the rules and regulations and some illegal acts are committed out of ignorance so talking about these issues on a public forum is a good way to spread the word about what can get us in trouble and what wont. I feel that any hunting forum that stays silent about illegal hunting activity is guilty of not reporting those illegal acts and should be held accountable legally.


He texted him that he was on a nice bull. Nothing illegal about that. They left the woods, went to lunch, talked about the bull in person and then went back hunting. That isn't illegal.
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Re: Kittitas trophy 8x8 bull poached

Postby RAMMONT » 10 22, 2019 •  [Post 7]

jmez wrote:He texted him that he was on a nice bull. Nothing illegal about that. They left the woods, went to lunch, talked about the bull in person and then went back hunting. That isn't illegal.


Yes, it is illegal in the state of Montana. The hunter took a bull on the same day that his friend texted him about the bull, that's illegal, it's a fair chase issue and no different than hunting and taking animal on the same day that you spotted it from an aircraft. A hunting day is defined as a half hour before sunrise to a half hour after sunset, taking the bull on that same day is illegal, it doesn't matter if you left the field to eat lunch and came back, it's the same hunt under the law.

The law says specifically
(1) Two-way electronic communication includes, but is not limited to, the following:
(a) radios (walkie-talkies/CB);
(b) cell phones;
(c) text messages; and
(d) the use of social media or other electronic platforms, applications, or programs.
(2) The use of two-way electronic communication is prohibited:
(a) while in the act of hunting game animals or wolves to aid in the taking or locating of live animals;...


And according to FWP Warden Sgt. Dave Loewen, in a 2014 article about a controversial elk hunt east of Helena in 2014;
It’s absolutely illegal,” Loewen said. “You can’t use two-way communications to aid your hunt in any way, shape or form, and the use of cellphones falls into that category. If you’re using cellphones to call each other and talk about the hunt, which way the elk are going or where you need to be to get in the best position to shoot the elk — anything like that, it’s illegal.
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Re: Kittitas trophy 8x8 bull poached

Postby WapitiTalk1 » 10 22, 2019 •  [Post 8]

Yes, its been that way in Montana for many years. I suspect, the same law is in place in other states also. I would imagine the original (and probably current) intent of this law is prevent hunters from using electronic communication (two way radios, cell phones, CB's, etc.) to track, triangulate, inform other hunters of current sightings, and report movement/direction, etc., etc.. "Bob, they're coming down Granite Ridge and just dropped over and across FS Trail #??? and are heading toward Rice Basin.... get ready for them"! "Thanks Frank, I'll call Jim and let him know they may be moving by his tree stand on the south side of the basin as they move up Rice Basin". In this type of scenario, that's not really a fair chase hunt and clearly violates established law. I personally don't see a violation if two guys talk in the morning and report what they've seen "and" are not in a position or have an intent to immediately intercept reported critters. Am I off on this?
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Re: Kittitas trophy 8x8 bull poached

Postby jmez » 10 22, 2019 •  [Post 9]

It's not illegal. It's not against fair chase. Did you get the confirmation from the game warden in Mt yet like you were asked on Rokslide? Post it here if so. Your being foolish.

There is a MT game Warden in Rokslide every day. He's a very active poster. Did he enter the thread? Did he issue any citations?

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Re: Kittitas trophy 8x8 bull poached

Postby Swede » 10 22, 2019 •  [Post 10]

RAMMONT wrote:a) while in the act of hunting game animals or wolves to aid in the taking or locating of live animals;...


To me it is clear that the use of two way communications is prohibited where it aides "in the taking or locating of live animals." If that stipulation was not in there the way it is, I could stop some folks from ever hunting Montana while staying right here at home. I could just text them in the early morning, "it looks like you are onto a nice animal", or "There is a nice elk out there" and you would have to go back to camp immediately. It is my opinion that just saying "you are on a nice bull" says nothing about the location, activity or direction of movement of the critter. If the hunter sees the animal the text adds nothing that will help. If he/she can't see it, but obviously knows it is out there somewhere (the text writer wrote you are "on a nice bull"), it does not help in locating or taking it.
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Re: Kittitas trophy 8x8 bull poached

Postby RAMMONT » 10 22, 2019 •  [Post 11]

jmez wrote:It's not illegal. It's not against fair chase. Did you get the confirmation from the game warden in Mt yet like you were asked on Rokslide? Post it here if so. Your being foolish.

There is a MT game Warden in Rokslide every day. He's a very active poster. Did he enter the thread? Did he issue any citations?

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So typical, you don't agree with me so rather than proving me wrong you insult me by calling me names.

I would have been glad to post more information on the other forum but I've been banned so I was never allowed to defend my position. If you know of a Montana warden then contact him and ask him if it's illegal, you are still capable of posting at the other forum so do it yourself and let us know how he responds. I already called the Montana Tip Line and was told that it was a violation, but as I said on the other forum, it is possible that the violation wouldn't be pursued, the hunter could be issued a written warning or the warden could use his discretion to not issue a citation. Also, the prosecutor could decide to not prosecute if he felt that the violation didn't warrant any action. But that doesn't mean that everybody that commits the same violation will avoid prosecution and why take a chance that you might be the one that gets hammered, it can be pretty expensive in Montana.
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Re: Kittitas trophy 8x8 bull poached

Postby jmez » 10 22, 2019 •  [Post 12]

I didn't call you a name. I said you were being foolish, not that you were a fool. There is a difference.
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Re: Kittitas trophy 8x8 bull poached

Postby WapitiTalk1 » 10 22, 2019 •  [Post 13]

Keep this thread/discussion on track folks. Commenting on the original content of the thread is fine but let’s not gravitate towards personal attacks. Yes? There are other forums that allow that sort of thing, not ours. Carry on. RJ
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Re: Kittitas trophy 8x8 bull poached

Postby Swede » 10 22, 2019 •  [Post 14]

If my wife texted me at 8:00AM and said "your brother is coming over to hunt with you. He will arrive at 9:00PM", would my hunt be over for the day since my brother would be coming to help me take a live animal? My wife texts me because my brother does not have a cell phone. The question is ludicrous for sure. I think the point is that Montana is trying to prevent people from using electronic communication devices for guiding hunters to game.
A friend texts you "it is getting hot"; "I am going down to the creek, or the ridge, or the meadow. See ya there", but it is all a code. That would be something to try to prevent.
The thread was about a poacher that tried to solicit help in covering up his crime if I remember correct. I hope I am not off track here, but 100% agree we need no personal attacks.
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Re: Kittitas trophy 8x8 bull poached

Postby RAMMONT » 10 23, 2019 •  [Post 15]

In an effort to stop derailing this conversation I'll just say that my post of the law speaks for itself.

I would like to defend my comment about name calling though.

Unfortunately a lack of language skills is a factor in so many problems today. People no longer understand words or their proper use. Arguing about what a hunt is a perfect example; the law says a hunt is considered to be from a half hour before sunrise to a half hour after sunset, and yet people will claim that if they stop actively hunting and eat lunch then it's a second hunt when they return to actively hunting after lunch, it's not. Just like saying that calling someone foolish is not the same as calling them a fool - yes, they are the same thing. The word foolish means that a person is acting like a fool, there is no difference in what the words mean, except that calling a person foolish makes the user of the word feel like he can avoid having to take responsibility for being offensive.
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Re: Kittitas trophy 8x8 bull poached

Postby Swede » 10 23, 2019 •  [Post 16]

Rammont: I appreciate the civility of your argument. You are free to make your case.
Here is something I can say from experience: The biggest fool is the one that thinks they have a sure winner in court. I am the first to admit I have been fooled when it comes to court decisions.
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Re: Kittitas trophy 8x8 bull poached

Postby Trophyhill » 11 29, 2019 •  [Post 17]

RAMMONT wrote:
jmez wrote:It's not illegal. It's not against fair chase. Did you get the confirmation from the game warden in Mt yet like you were asked on Rokslide? Post it here if so. Your being foolish.

There is a MT game Warden in Rokslide every day. He's a very active poster. Did he enter the thread? Did he issue any citations?

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So typical, you don't agree with me so rather than proving me wrong you insult me by calling me names.

I would have been glad to post more information on the other forum but I've been banned so I was never allowed to defend my position. If you know of a Montana warden then contact him and ask him if it's illegal, you are still capable of posting at the other forum so do it yourself and let us know how he responds. I already called the Montana Tip Line and was told that it was a violation, but as I said on the other forum, it is possible that the violation wouldn't be pursued, the hunter could be issued a written warning or the warden could use his discretion to not issue a citation. Also, the prosecutor could decide to not prosecute if he felt that the violation didn't warrant any action. But that doesn't mean that everybody that commits the same violation will avoid prosecution and why take a chance that you might be the one that gets hammered, it can be pretty expensive in Montana.


The verbaige is pretty clear. One has to pay attention to the word "aid". If a couple people are texting back and forth or talking back and forth in one form or another with electronics giving instruction/direction to a specific animal, "hey RJ, slow down and turn to your right, the deer is bedded beside the yucca directly to the right of that mesquite bush next to the draw", I'd say that's illegal.

"Hey RJ, I've been watching this giant mule deer buck all afternoon. I'm gonna make a move. I'll text you my location when I put him down. I'll need help packing him out" and RJ texts back "10-4 shoot straight go kill him".

RJ is not "aiding" me in killing that deer therefore perfectly legal. I just hope RJ is in shape and has his Taurus because I'm 10 miles back in Idaho's nastiest terrain and grizzlys and wolves are circling my kill while being stalked by a family of mountain lions.
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Re: Kittitas trophy 8x8 bull poached

Postby Old school » 11 30, 2019 •  [Post 18]

I tend to agree with RJ and a couple others - I personally wouldn’t see that incident as aiding. That would be the same as hunting the morning, then meeting up for lunch and your buddy says “I was on a good bull all morning”. You then proceed to go kill that bull that afternoon. Same thing. There’s no “aiding” in the text that is referenced. I’d be interested to hear the perspective of a conservation agent from Montana.

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Re: Kittitas trophy 8x8 bull poached

Postby 2MANY » 12 04, 2019 •  [Post 19]

We all know what the intent of the law is but some choose to make it confusing.

Outlaw all the tech stuff and lock the gates at the asphalt as far as I'm concerned.

That includes seal a meal machines too!
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Re: Kittitas trophy 8x8 bull poached

Postby 7mmfan » 12 04, 2019 •  [Post 20]

2MANY wrote:We all know what the intent of the law is but some choose to make it confusing.

Outlaw all the tech stuff and lock the gates at the asphalt as far as I'm concerned.

That includes seal a meal machines too!


But but but.... how will I make my sous vide backstrap????
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Re: Kittitas trophy 8x8 bull poached

Postby lilshootergirl » 12 11, 2019 •  [Post 21]

Wow! Been awhile since I posted this bull being poached, easy does it guys! I see guys often with radios aiding in hunts in 2 states, fair? I don't think so. Meeting for lunch, meeting up with a late hunting buddy, yes.
I don't think its fair chase to me, to use text, radios locating game! But that's my opinion!!
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