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Gut material in elk chest cavity, cause?

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Gut material in elk chest cavity, cause?

Postby 7mmfan » 11 04, 2019 •  [Post 1]

I've been waiting until things slowed down a little to post this and get some input from the peanut gallery. When I started quartering the elk I killed a couple weeks ago, I had something happen that I've never seen before. The shot was about 350 - 360 yards. One shot, in and out, clean exit, right in the pocket behind the shoulder. An obvious double lunger. The elk then rolled in an unknown manner a couple hundred feet down hill, ending up on top of a downed tree. We moved him off that and down another 100' or so to where we processed him. That was a pretty controlled descent.

When we took the first front quarter off, it was the exit side. There was a fair amount of what appeared to be gut material coming out of the exit wound. Obvious browse, it smelled gutty, and was greenish in color. When we rolled him and did the other side, it was the same story there, now that he had been on his side for some time. The stomach was fully distended, clearly not hit by any stray fragments. I trimmed a lot of meat off on the spot, and ended up trimming a lot more off at camp that had a gutty smell to it.

I'm trying to figure out how with a clean pass through in the lung area, I managed to get so much gut material in the chest cavity. The only thing I can envision is the bullet pierced the esophagus and during his tumble gut material regurgitated up and into the chest cavity? Anyone ever experience this? It was a real bummer to lose so much meat after a seemingly perfect shot.
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Re: Gut material in elk chest cavity, cause?

Postby Bowhunter » 11 04, 2019 •  [Post 2]

I believe you opinion is probably correct.
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Re: Gut material in elk chest cavity, cause?

Postby WapitiTalk1 » 11 04, 2019 •  [Post 3]

"The only thing I can envision is the bullet pierced the esophagus and during his tumble gut material regurgitated up and into the chest cavity?"

Sounds very plausible. But, the esophagus sets relatively high compared to the shot you described (I'm assuming your double lung hit was a bit lower in the body cavity than where esophagus is located?). Was your shot angling sharply uphill or downhill; was the exit wound higher/lower than the entrance? Wondering if the bullet impact blasted a sharp piece of rib fragment up and through the esophagus?
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Re: Gut material in elk chest cavity, cause?

Postby 7mmfan » 11 04, 2019 •  [Post 4]

Shot was almost perfectly broadside and level. Entrance and exit were within an inch of each other in elevation. I'd say the shot was middle of the chest in elevation. Here is an image posted on another forum, I marked about where the shot would have been. Looks dang close. Also, after seeing that photo I remembered that while watching him in his bed, he had been chewing his cud. Not sure if that was a contributing factor or not.
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Re: Gut material in elk chest cavity, cause?

Postby Swede » 11 04, 2019 •  [Post 5]

I am going out on a limb here, but my guess would be that the pounding force on stomach area, and orientation of the body descending violently downward forced the gut material out the path of least resistance.
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Re: Gut material in elk chest cavity, cause?

Postby 7mmfan » 11 04, 2019 •  [Post 6]

Seems the consensus among others I've talked with is that the esophagus got pierced or otherwise cut and the tumbling and rolling and bouncing off logs, trees, rocks, etc. Forced him to throw up, right into the chest cavity. Makes sense, just a bummer. Never experienced it before, hopefully don't have to anymore.
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Re: Gut material in elk chest cavity, cause?

Postby Swede » 11 04, 2019 •  [Post 7]

Why do you say the esophagus was cut? Why could the gut material have not followed the bullet channel? That channel should have been quite large after passing through the lungs. What am I missing?
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Re: Gut material in elk chest cavity, cause?

Postby jmez » 11 05, 2019 •  [Post 8]

The only way to know is to open them up and look. When you see something like that you should take the time to break a few ribs, look inside and see where it is coming from. Is always a good lesson.

The GI system only has two openings to the outside, mouth and anus. If there was gut material then something you did opened the tract somewhere along the way. You shot it in the lungs it was either the esophagus, rumen or reticulum. The esophagus runs through the chest cavity The rumen and reticulum both extend up between the lungs but aren't within the chest cavity. The chest cavity is shaped like a funnel with the big part at the upper back extending down toward the front legs. There are areas in the chest that would go as follows: hide, ribs, lung, diaphragm, rumen/reticulum, diaphragm, lung, ribs and hide.
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Re: Gut material in elk chest cavity, cause?

Postby 7mmfan » 11 05, 2019 •  [Post 9]

Swede wrote:Why do you say the esophagus was cut? Why could the gut material have not followed the bullet channel? That channel should have been quite large after passing through the lungs. What am I missing?


Jmez gave a good description, and i think the photo above shows the esophagus running basically right between the lungs. In that area, its basically the only way for gut material to end up in the chest cavity. It's possible that, like Jmex said, I could have gotten ahold of the rumen or reticulum, but as far as I could tell I did not compromise the diaphragm. So my best educated guess is the bullet while passing through the lungs severed the esophagus one way or another, and the tumble forced gut material up and out the tear into the chest cavity.

Swede, how else would you envision gut material getting there?
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Re: Gut material in elk chest cavity, cause?

Postby Swede » 11 05, 2019 •  [Post 10]

You make a great point and I think Jmez's explanation totally makes sense. The only way I could have seen the gut material going from the digestive tract to the outside would have been if the gut or esophagus was broken open during the 200 foot fall and landing on the downed tree. If the hide had no puncher wound other than the bullet holes, then it is unlikely the gut was opened either.
Considering how much force it took to get the gut material spread out to ruin so much meat I thought it was odd for the amount of material the bullet had to carry to ruin so much meat.
I have killed a lot of deer and elk over the years, and have never run into this situation. I have had a ruined shoulder due to bloodshot and the side of the ribcage has been largely lost to bloodshot. Your situation is different. I know we don't autopsy an animal, but did the long fall exacerbate the problem?
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Re: Gut material in elk chest cavity, cause?

Postby 7mmfan » 11 05, 2019 •  [Post 11]

I really don’t know. It was dark and late so I wasn’t going to do a full in depth postmortem. My guess is it was a contributing factor. I’ve never experienced it before, nor had anyone else I run around with so I’m guessing it’s a fairly rare occurrence. It was a bummer losing that meat. I like shoulder meat.

Side note, someone mentioned cleaning that meat with vinegar. Also something I’ve never heard of. Does it neutralize the gut taste and smell? I just couldn’t bring myself to toss those quarters into bags with all that junk on them. I’ve always been taught to trim liberally if gut was involved.
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Re: Gut material in elk chest cavity, cause?

Postby Swede » 11 05, 2019 •  [Post 12]

I too believe in removing all contaminated meat. Because I cannot keep everything free for bacteria, I also cook fully. That does not mean charred, but the meat is cooked completely through.
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