Getting Started and Becoming Consistent

[Indian Summer]

Whatever the percentage of successful hunters is I do believe that the same 10 out of every hundred guys kill their elk every year.

There are guys who give elk hunting a try. There are lots of hunters who decide that it’s just not for them and are one and done. Then there’s the group who are more determined and stick with it for 2-3 years. But maybe they bounced from place to place so never learned much about a specific spot and didn’t end up killing anything. A lack of success after a few legitimate efforts can be the end of such a pricey and physically demanding thing.

To me elk hunting is a never ending learning process that starts with finding a place to call home that has a good number of resident elk where you can settle in and learn about the place and how to hunt the elk there and elk in general. So if you are just getting started and plan on making elk hunting a regular thing you should put some serious thought into how and where you begin. Look at it as a long term thing, an education that picks up every season slightly ahead of where it left off due to the lessons you learned last time. Keep that cycle going and eventually you’ll be one of the ten guys who pack your bull off of the hill more often than not.

[Indian Summer]

Getting started with elk hunting means several things. A trip out in the summer would be priceless. Nice weather and no pressure to actually kill elk means concentrating on covering ground confirming that the terrain and cover suit your preferred style of hunting. So instead of picking an area based on any other factors and then adapting your method of hunting to work for that area pick one that is all you and then find out where the sweet spots are.

I’m a spot and stalk hunter. An area made up if all timber with no openings doesn’t work for me. I need open ridges with decent sized parks in the timber AND I need the lay of the land to be such that I can glass the open stuff from the next ridge over. Assuming there are elk there it’s just a matter of time until I see them. Step one of joining the 10% club and all it requires a s being there and looking. You can do that right?

[Indian Summer]

After that it’s just a matter of more time until you realize which places they show up in regularly and what it’s like over there. So you need to go check it out. Walk it out top to bottom and side to side. I do some of that during the day when the elk are bedded elsewhere. I might set up somewhere and sit until dark once I find a vantage point with good wind. Learn where the game trails are, where they enter the openings. Look on your map to see where those trails might go.

Learn the area like the back of your hand and refine your approach and establish the places you can shoot from. That is step 3 and all it requires is some hiking and paying attention and you can do that too.

[Indian Summer]

Keep tweeking your approach to develop stalks that turn sightings into shot opportunities. Do that and you’ll be joining in the group of hunters who are consistent.

So by all means start by checking out some satellite images along with topo maps. But know what you’re looking for and then take a vacation and go enjoy a glimpse of the place. Drop some waypoints at vantage points or any key places on the route in or out. Go ahead and stomp around the place without worrying about spooking elk. A summer scouting trip will cut your learning time in half. It’s like doing two elk hunts in one year. It would be a great way to start and a priceless investment in making your elk hunting career productive and productive is fun!

[saddlesore]

I pretty much agree with all that. Except when younger,I hunted the thick timber. I really enjoyed working at it until I could sneak up on elk in their beds. My killing range was always less than 50 yards. Now,being an old fart and limited in what I can do, I go to a known spot and sit.Sooner or late an elk will walk by.

The other reason of hunting thick timber is in Colorado the extreme hunting pressure. We get dumped on with all the hunters that didn't draw in other states or believe the ads from the game department that we have 280,000 elk here ,one behind every tree. By the time archery and ML season is over, the elk have headed into that timber and become mostly nocturnal. Hunters are hard pressed to even see one during legal shooting hours or they have been bumped by other hunters and are moving thru your hunt area. Unless you go rooting them out, you have about 15 minutes morning and evening to possibly get a shot opportunity.It is more about figuring out where the elk go because of other hunters.

[Indian Summer]

I pretty much agree with all that. Except when younger,I hunted the thick timber. I really enjoyed working at it until I could sneak up on elk in their beds. My killing range was always less than 50 yards. Now,being an old fart and limited in what I can do, I go to a known spot and sit.Sooner or late an elk will walk by.

The other reason of hunting thick timber is in Colorado the extreme hunting pressure. We get dumped on with all the hunters that didn't draw in other states or believe the ads from the game department that we have 280,000 elk here ,one behind every tree. By the time archery and ML season is over, the elk have headed into that timber and become mostly nocturnal. Hunters are hard pressed to even see one during legal shooting hours or they have been bumped by other hunters and are moving thru your hunt area. Unless you go rooting them out, you have about 15 minutes morning and evening to possibly get a shot opportunity.It is more about figuring out where the elk go because of other hunters.

And so that is DEFINITELY not going to be the place to start investing time! Guys who try that call me totally frustrated looking to get started somewhere else with a solid plan. They are so easy to please I love it. Nothing beats hunting elk that stand around feeding until 9 or so and come waltzing back out at 3 or 3:30. Your description of hunting elk in Colorado literally sent a chill down my spine!

[7mmfan]

When we decided that we were going to start elk hunting out of state, we looked at OTC tags strictly as we wanted to do what IS is talking about. Pick a spot, learn it, make it home, and start killing animals there. We looked at Idaho and Colorado, and opted to stick with Idaho because the landscape and type of hunting fit our methods better. I'd heard horror stories like what saddlesore just said. To me, living in timber trying to find elk with 1000 other hunters around trying to find the same elk, sounded just like hunting in WA, which was why we were leaving.

It took us 4 years to begin patterning them well, and learning where they are and where they go. We found success every year between deer and elk, but this year we had game plans, and executed them well, filling most of the tags in camp. It felt great.

[saddlesore]

And so that is DEFINITELY not going to be the place to start investing time! Guys who try that call me totally frustrated looking to get started somewhere else with a solid plan. They are so easy to please I love it. Nothing beats hunting elk that stand around feeding until 9 or so and come waltzing back out at 3 or 3:30. Your description of hunting elk in Colorado literally sent a chill down my spine!

Yep,its getting pretty close to be like what you see in PA during deer season. I earnestly try to get people to hunt some where else besides Colorado.

I still kill an elk most every year and have done so for many years..Sometimes two. Cow in ML season, bull in 2nd rifle.The only reason not going north is my two hunts cost me less than one NR tag in WO, MT, or ID, and I still kill elk
If I were from the east or the typical NR hunter then I would be going to one of those three states rather than CO.

In WY for example what is the hunting pressure like in areas that do offer OTCtags? I found this and it appears there are no OTC tags in WY except for residents and then there is that guide requirement fro Wilderness areas..

Wyoming is another state that offers Over-the-Counter (OTC) elk tags, but has now been limited to residents only. Wyoming has 112 wildlife management units (hunt areas) and 84 hunts in 77 of those units have general season (OTC) elk tags available to residents. Non-residents can buy general tags for $591 for Bull Elk or Any ELK and $302 for a cow/calf (antlerless) license, but have to apply to get them, but many units in Wyoming have nearly a 100% chance of drawing a tag.

Montana# no longer offers OTC tags for non-residents – but many units have 100% draw; Non-Res Bull Elk $888 or $1,045 for Any Elk & Deer Combo; Cow Elk $275

In Idaho, a nonresident adult hunting license costs $154.75. A nonresident deer tag costs $301.75 and an elk tag costs $416.75.Sep 9, 2019,but OTC licenses are offered.

[Indian Summer]

Wyoming sets aside 25% of tags in both the special and regular drawings. Those are issued through the Random Drawing. It’s not based on points so everyone has an equal chance. To guarantee a general license it takes more than 1 but less than 2 points for the Special draw. So if there were two hunters and one had 1 point and the other had 2 they’d be in good shape with a party application at 1.5 points. In the regular drawing you need more than 2 to secure a rag. I do know of units with 100% draw odds on leftover cow tags too.

[Swede]

The Oregon situation in many areas is similar to what Saddlesore describes. I have seen the elk disappear within minutes of the opening of the first rifle season. Within three days of the opening of archery season, they are all out on a ranch where they can stand around and graze all day, and watch the hunters drive by.
If I was coming from a place like Kansas or Minnesota I would save a lot of time, frustration and money and call Indian Summer. I do not know what he charges, but I highly doubt it is anywhere near the cost of several seasons scouting and hunting until you figure out where and how to hunt even in a "better than average" otc area.
To be fair it took me many years to figure out how to consistently get elk, and I had some real advantages over the guy coming from Kansas. I was raised a hunter. As an adult I lived near good elk hunting, and worked for the Forest Service. I saw elk frequently in the Summer. Finding them after the first bang on opening morning was often quite a trick.

[saddlesore]

Once in my life, I started in my 40's to build points for a trophy area where only 25 tags a year were awarded. After 21 years, CPW gave me one of those tags and I killed a big 7x8 bull. That was in 2007. In those 21 years I hunted OTC units and killed elk every year. In one area, I killed 8 bulls in 8 years with in a mile of each other.

I don't even try to build points anymore. I want to hunt elk each year, not every other year and I don't have the finances to put in for draws for 3-4 different states.

My hunting career is too short now.I want to pack in as many hunts as I can. Keeping two mules let me get into ares that are further from the trails and roads to get away from the crowds,but I still have to contend with those spooked elk.
Younger hunters and those just starting off with no limits on what states to hunt would be wise to follow IS advice.

[Indian Summer]

As far as hunting timber goes: It takes some prior experience in the area to make it work. You need to have some idea of when to cover ground and when it’s time to slow down. Still hunting in cover the first 1-2 seasons in a new area is surely low odds.

[saddlesore]

As far as hunting timber goes: It takes some prior experience in the area to make it work. You need to have some idea of when to cover ground and when it’s time to slow down. Still hunting in cover the first 1-2 seasons in a new area is surely low odds.

I disagree. It isn't so much on knowing that area, but how to hunt the heavy timber. Which most don't. Much harder than hunting open country where you can glass for a mile or so but absolutely doable. Might be low odds for some ,but not for others. Archery and muzzle loader hunters do it all the time. I'd wager less than 10% of the hunters know how do it successfully. Put me in an unknown country ,heavy timber that holds elk, and I can kill one the 1st season. Hell, put me in open country where I can glass that holds elk and I'll kill one in the first 2-3days. No comparison.

I don't sell my advice, and for three years running now I have helped a member of this forum get on elk every first day he hunted. Another was having a poor hunt and I put him and his boys into another area and they were on elk the first evening.

All thru the 90's, I had parties coming to Colorado from SW PA,including my brother. I put them on elk ever year and they hauled a lot of elk back to PA. All hunting was done in heavy timber.

As you have said many times yourself, different states,different country, requires different tactics.

[Swede]

Knowing how to hunt timber is the key. Most hunters do not know when to move quickly, and when to go slow or stop. Waiting too long can be as big a problem as going to fast, but most go too fast. Knowing where to walk and where to wait is very important. I.e. If you walk behind the elk following on their trail, you will bust them out and not get one. Stay in cover on the hillside off the trail and move carefully.

[Swede]

One of the things that has come to mind is the number of times I have had to stop and concentrate on something in the timber. Animals are closer, but cam be partially concealed. Sometimes it appears that something has changed and you just need to concentrate on that area to figure out what. It appeared to be movement. Sometimes it is a partial outline or the wrong color.
On a couple of occasions I remember not being sure just what I was seeing. One turned out to be a big buck and the other a branched bull elk. I kept looking at the buck until it moved just a little and I saw it for what it was. I shot it with a 6.5 Swedish Mauser. I was eating an apple and staring at something I was not sure of. I kept watching and put the apple in my pocket. The branched antler bull finally lifted its head and was soon hit hard by a 250 grain bullet from a 338WM.

[saddlesore]

Knowing how to hunt timber is the key. Most hunters do not know when to move quickly, and when to go slow or stop. Waiting too long can be as big a problem as going to fast, but most go too fast. Knowing where to walk and where to wait is very important. I.e. If you walk behind the elk following on their trail, you will bust them out and not get one. Stay in cover on the hillside off the trail and move carefully.

You undrstand the method exactly. We could have hunted together and killed a lot of elk in past years. Hard for me to get around up and over dead fall now days for any length of time.

[Swede]

It took me a long time to learn to effectively hunt. I knew there was more involved than just luck, but did not know what it was. Saddlesore, I could have used a good coach.

[Indian Summer]

Put me in an unknown country ,heavy timber that holds elk, and I can kill one the 1st season. Hell, put me in open country where I can glass that holds elk and I'll kill one in the first 2-3days. No comparison.

Exactly. That’s why I say first find country that is suitable for spot and stalk hunting . Even in archery it pays to locate elk first. I did the needle in a haystack thing for years. Spooking elk is depressing to me. To sneak for hours only to see patches of fur between the trees running away just didn’t seem like the best way. In Montana we would hunt huge burns the same way as open meadows. Finding user friendly huntable elk country is where I start.

[saddlesore]

If one is only seeing patches of fur running off thru the timber,they are doing it wrong. It might be hard to learn , but set someone up in open country where they glass, see elk, and then do a stalk ,they will never learn to hunt elk when the going gets tough.They kill an easy one, think that isn't hard, and then the next time when they have to actually go find them in heavy cover, they go home empty handed. Isn't too long before they get disgusted and quit.JMHO.

In todays society, people seem to want instant gratification, whether it is elk hunting , or another sport. A lot of elk hunters get lucky and tag one the first hunt. 80% don't. It might take 2-3 years ,but once they learn the how, instead of the where,they will become one of the consistent 10% that kill 90% of the elk.

[Swede]

If you hunt the timber, you will make mistakes and get busted. If you learn to hunt the timber well, you will still mess up, but you will get elk too. Not every encounter will end the way you want. As Saddlesore wrote, people are in too big of a hurry. One thing I have noticed is that when I get in an area that is all torn up with very fresh sign from elk milling around feeding, they were just there. They have moved. Where did they go. How far ahead or uphill or ??? are they. You likely need to move a little but carefully. This might be a good time for a short two note bugle and rake a tree or bush. Then wait. If the elk are near it may take an hour for one to come around looking.
Too many people hunt like they are going somewhere.

[lilshootergirl]

Talking about Timber! So if you find a herd bedded, and you have a clean shot do you shot the bull? Or wait til he stands up?

[Swede]

If you mean by "a clean shot", a clear lane to the vitals; then take the shot. I personally don't care what the animal is doing, if I want it, and it offers me a clear opportunity to place a broadhead in the vitals, I am coming back to full draw.

[saddlesore]

I have shot both cows and bulls in their beds. A the most they stand up and fall over. Most just lay over and die though assuming you put he bullet in the right place. That isn't hard considering I am talking about 20 yards or less shooting distance.
I can't do that type of hunt anymore though. I'm too gimped up.

[Tigger]

I think the biggest thing for me was doing research and applying that knowledge repeatedly on elk. For the vast majority of my archery elk hunting, I have made a living in the timber. I have goofed up more than my share I am sure, but sooner or later you have some success. No one has mentioned Elknut's playbook yet, but that is a great place to get started. The becoming consistent part is experience and applying those principles.

I think you could find a correlation between the number of hours spent deep in the woods hunting hard and success rates (by deep in the woods I don't necessarily mean in thick timber or 15 miles off the trail). There is a certain percentage of elk hunters who sleep late, drive the roads, sit on a meadow near a road, glass from a lookout with easy access near a road, etc. Guys who don't put forth the effort. Then they come home and talk about how there are no elk, elk are call shy, etc. You want to shorten the learning curve to being a consistent elk killer? Knowledge, scouting, and effort. That or carry a potent rabbits foot.

[Indian Summer]

Scouting and effort in the right place. I think too many people just roll the dice. Lots of deer hunters think that they can’t possibly go for more than a couple miles without finding elk. So they go for the shortest drive with what appears to be the least complicated licensing system and start from there. Then after having a terrible hunt many go back to the same place or one not too far from there and try again. Isn’t that the definition of insanity?

You won’t learn much about elk hunting if you don’t have encounters with elk. So choose your spot as if all of your hopes and dreams depend on it.... because they do!

[Lefty]

,,,

As far as hunting timber goes: It takes some prior experience in the area to make it work. You need to have some idea of when to cover ground and when it’s time to slow down. Still hunting in cover the first 1-2 seasons in a new area is surely low odds.

I disagree. It isn't so much on knowing that area, but how to hunt the heavy timber. Which most don't..

I think how to hunt is generally more important than knowing the area. I came from a white tail background. My first year elk hunting in Montana I killed a nice bull on day three , my2 nd year in Utah had never been with in 100 miles where I killed a cow first evening,..
First year; well three hours into the Idaho trophy hunt killed a bull. Then 8 hours into my first ever archery hunting I literally had a nice 6x6 inches from my face.

Knowing an are and how to hunt it can be very important. I know lots of hunters , elk and deer hunters that have a honey hole of some type, and its a matter of nearly instant success. A friend runs an outfit in a Utah CWMU Their clients kill their huge bulls basically in the same place every year just on the edge of a deep and steep canyon.
And sometimes strait up luck or fate

[lilshootergirl]

So if elk are in a area in the summer, when you come back they'll be there in October? I seen ppl say scout a new area, before returning there? I've tried scouting 2xs, when I returned they were out of there!
If I scout a area what am I looking for, besides the obvious, elk! I found talking to people there not always honest. How would you work a new area? Or should this be a new thread?

[Swede]

Things like hunting pressure and weather can move elk out of their summer range. When I go scouting I do not care if I see elk. If they are around, I will see the evidence of what is there. I can see herds and/or individuals. Scouting two areas does not mean you have to go a hundred miles away to find a totally different part of the universe. You can often set up camp in one location and scout two or three areas then come back later and set camp in the same place and hunt from there. I like to set out cameras, so when I get back, I can see just what is out there and the frequency for when they show up. I know that hunting season, and a large influx of people can displace them in a hurry, but I have a place to start.
For a tree stand hunter scouting is a lot different than a rifle hunter. A tree stand hunter is looking for a 1/4 acre location to ambush an elk. A rifle hunter wants to know trails travel routes. They would do well know bedding and feeding areas. I found that it took several years rifle hunting in an area to figure things out, because as a newbie I was always behind the curve. Did you notice where hunter got their elk last season? Maybe that would be a good place to start.

[saddlesore]

So if elk are in a area in the summer, when you come back they'll be there in October? I seen ppl say scout a new area, before returning there? I've tried scouting 2xs, when I returned they were out of there!
If I scout a area what am I looking for, besides the obvious, elk! I found talking to people there not always honest. How would you work a new area? Or should this be a new thread?

The only thing scouting in the summer gets you is getting to know the area.
Even scouting in September doesn't mean elk will be there in October. Actually where elk are one day can mean theyare 5 miles away the next

[Tigger]

The one thing I would pay attention to is elk rubs. More importantly a concentration of elk rubs. All that tells you is that bulls where there somewhere around the rut, but that is a key piece of info! Will they be exactly there come later in the season? Probably not, but it gives you a starting place. If you find that concentration of rubs, that is likely a place elk feel comfortable and it would be a place I would check out come October. Then, if there is no sign there, I would start thinking...if I was here and danger started pressuring me, where would I go?

[Swede]

No one likes to hear this, but it takes several years to get familiar with what the animals are doing, and where they are at in rifle elk season. If you have a good area and are persistent, you have a chance the first season. The elk move around, and seeing elk just before the season and seeing fresh sign, only tells you the elk were there.
Even in archery season it is best to know the habits of the elk. Last season I placed my son on a stand. He saw no fresh sign anywhere nearby. I placed his friend at a very similar spot. Both men thought it was a waste of their time, but one decided to sit it out and got an elk the first morning. The other was very impatient and left. He got nothing. I knew the elk came around about once a week and the sign showed nothing had been there for at least three days.
Some areas have resident elk that stay, and some areas have elk that are constantly on the move. Some areas get hunting pressure that displaces elk to other locations, but where? Scouting gives you a starting point. It is not the end of the journey.
If you can talk to hunters or others that know the area, you can get a head start. I also like checking the unit hunter success statistics. I hear a lot about how unreliable they are, but it gives me a starting point and I would rather invest time in a 25% unit than a 5% unit, unless I know something that will change the prospects for my success. Obviously I would rather hunt a water hole in a 5% unit, where I know a bull frequents that spot, than go pot luck in a better unit.

[Indian Summer]

The one thing I would pay attention to is elk rubs. More importantly a concentration of elk rubs. All that tells you is that bulls where there somewhere around the rut, but that is a key piece of info! Will they be exactly there come later in the season? Probably not, but it gives you a starting place. If you find that concentration of rubs, that is likely a place elk feel comfortable and it would be a place I would check out come October. Then, if there is no sign there, I would start thinking...if I was here and danger started pressuring me, where would I go?

That is a damn good post!

[Indian Summer]

In the summer you have a couple things against you for scouting. First the obvious, it’s hot. Really hot! Even the air smells different because the ground and trees are so hot. So elk aren’t in a hurry to get out of cover. Glassing isn’t that great because of that. The other thing is they don’t really need to feed in big grassy meadows because there is food everywhere in the timber. So all in all it is disappointing but you won’t see a lot of elk. Like Saddlesore said the main benefit is getting to know your way around. Knowing that before you get there is priceless so summer scouting in an area you’ve never been to has huge benefits. Before you get there you should have studied the maps and satellite images and have some idea of where elk might be. Carry out your hiking plan and make a note of sign where you see it. One really nice thing is it doesn’t matter if you spook elk because you’re not hunting! So if you bump them you just gain some information. Where I hunt the elk are in the same vicinity in hunting season as they are in July and August. Early to mid June can still be wintery up top so my spike camp elk might not be up there yet.

[VT Sasquatch]

Saddlesore, you are a wealth of knowledge. I wish you were my uncle.

[Pop-r]

I know areas in CO that are obliterated with elk rubs that come season you won't see an elk in unless it's just coincidental or later on in the season. (Small pockets of "lower" ground that elk stay in all summer & then winter too but get bumped by the first few "scouters" in late August a few days after they've made countless rubs and are now nowhere within at least 3 miles and most likely further. Just throwing that out there.

[saddlesore]

I know areas in CO that are obliterated with elk rubs that come season you won't see an elk in unless it's just coincidental or later on in the season. (Small pockets of "lower" ground that elk stay in all summer & then winter too but get bumped by the first few "scouters" in late August a few days after they've made countless rubs and are now nowhere within at least 3 miles and most likely further. Just throwing that out there.

That's for sure,those early scouters a few days before elk season spook and move more elk than they realize.
They get into an area, bump the elk and figure they will be there come opening day.Then they go back and try to figure out where all the elk went