Calling while covering ground

[SilentDeath]

So I have the elk nut app. I've listened to all of the podcasts where the elk nut was a guest. I know about locate bugling, but my question is does anyone cow call while covering ground? My hunting partner and I did it frequently last year, and we ran into two bulls that would not respond to locate bugles. I think they were both satellite bulls. So I was prepared to nervous grunt them, and it resulted in a near shot at both of them. The second one was run off by a black bear coming to my regathering calls. my question is, has anybody tried anything else while covering ground? like a different call that could be used to get one to respond before we are on top of them?

[saddlesore]

I think that would be counter productive. Maybe stopping every few hundred yards and set up,then do some soft cow calling, but calling while moving, any elk close by will bust you. This is on of my main gripes. Guys moving thru the timber and calling constantly. A elk may take 20-30 minutes or even longer or come into call. You are more likely to spook that elk as it is coming in and you never see or hear it. Any elk in the vicinity will know exactly where you are.
I know Paul thinks elk do not get call shy, but this is one reason they do

If the elk are not talking,neither am I

[Lefty]

Im particular about when and where we set up to call. I want always be in a shooting position when elk respond.

I never blow a goose call at geese if Im not hidden and never use a elk call unless ready to shoot.

Ive had elk under thirty yards within seconds of calling . evidently we were already on top of them. And elk take over an hour to respond.
Years past weve been busted calling: locate bugling leaving the site under 5 minutes. We now never leave a site unless we feel weve given it enough time. Last year I think 12 minutes was the shortest time. Generally about 20 minutes, early morning , longer through out the day
I want there to be tight cover in all too often more open timber and only set up and call from an area where a shot will not be over 30-45 yards , ever. Surrounding area you could have a 60-80 yard rifle shot
A two man may be often above the lip of a draw or thickets of newer growth still my preference is nasty blow-down

Saddle sore has way more elk experience than I. And I agree that hunters change the way elk respond.
Like calling coyotes or geese, too much wrong sounds, odor/scent and being seen induces caution in some elk approaches.
Lets face it most of us are of the caliber were still teaching elk

I know one fellow who has shot with a rifle 2 bulls over 350. His family is always call cowing and walking, Since in 35 years he shot those big bulls and his father a 300 and 330 bull they think it was pushing a Hoochie Moma that is the key to big bulls. When in fact each shot for those four bulls they were sitting quietly or walking in( including napping)
Most game has eyesight to catch movement, noses to smell.

I hate this saying, but accurate "less can be more."
While really going at it on a call for game: coyotes, geese and elk is the most effective, other times I use the other theory a fellow trapper told me about 45 years ago about lures for trapping and related it to women.

What gets your attention , just a tiney wiff of perfume from the girl you cant see in the hallway at school , or the knock you out bottle the old lady in the church pew three rows in front of you.

Think of Elknuts "slow-play " podcast

[WapitiTalk1]

Adding a bit to the posts above. Myself, I do not (randomly call while covering ground). If I am making elk noises (verbal or non-verbal), I'm either locating/trying to call an elk in (and am always set up appropriately each and every time which includes waiting, listening, watching, even smelling), or perhaps letting a bull call me in (this is where I would use a few cow calls, while moving, letting the bull call me in). You mentioned "My hunting partner and I did it frequently last year, and we ran into two bulls that would not respond to locate bugles". I'm assuming that the lone bulls may have heard and were responding physically (coming in) to your cow calls and when you threw a bugle into the mix, it changed their interested level (they weren't/aren't interested in another bull, but, just the cow they had heard). Each and every time one is in an elk calling situation, it takes all of our senses to read the developing situation and make good decisions (sometimes very quickly) on how best to get an arrow (or other projectile) cleanly into an elk. If randomly calling while cruising through the timber, brush, whatever.... I can't properly tune in to what's going on in the elk woods around me. One of the best tactics while hunting during the time when the elk are most vocal (i.e., during the rut) is to move as quietly as possible, using the thermals/wind, sit and listen, then move quietly, then sit and listen, repeat, repeat.... Oftentimes, you'll hear, see, or even smell elk before they are aware of your presence. Sure, locating at night or right before daylight is a great tactic also but again, oftentimes you can sit a vantage point and hear them talking w/o even having to make a peep on your own. They'll be pretty close to that spot for the first hour or two of daylight (feeding area). Get below them, work your way up and either below them or on the same level, read the situation... and make good decisions on how to get close and let the air out of one.

[Lefty]

SD
How my life would be different if I had some of the elk info from today my first years of hunting.
Everyday is still a learning expierience

[Indian Summer]

Lefty saved me a bunch of typing. Ditto that especially the first two sentences.

[Swede]

I have called while moving at times. It depends on the situation. When I do, it is to cover my sound of moving through an area where I have good cover. I will give a cow call every few minutes as I move. If elk hear you coming or passing by, you can cause them to believe you are another elk. I have had them try to call me in. I could not approach the bull as I knew he would see or smell me, so I circled around and waited, or went to my tree stand. It beats busting them out of the area if you are going straight uphill or down to your tree stand. And BTW, I have busted elk out many times going to my stand. It happens.

[Lefty]

I have called while moving at times. It depends on the situation. When I do, it is to cover my sound of moving through an area where I have good cover. I will give a cow call every few minutes as I move. If elk hear you coming or passing by, you can cause them to believe you are another elk. I have had them try to call me in. I could not approach the bull as I knew he would see or smell me, so I circled around and waited, or went to my tree stand. It beats busting them out of the area if you are going straight uphill or down to your tree stand. And BTW, I have busted elk out many times going to my stand. It happens.

I still hunt elk like I did squirrels as a kid. When moving I try to think, where is my best situation for a shot .

And I have done as you describe, But ready for the shot

Now I need to share this if I havent already.
At one time muskie fish were thought of as the "fish of 10,000 cast" and to always be on the ready on your next cast as if that is the time the muskie will hit.

I do the same when calling, there will be an elk responding if I call
With that little story,.. elk respond way more often than muskies

[>>>---WW---->]

About the only time I'll make a call while moving is if I know elk are close by and I'm trying to close the distance. If I happen to snap a twig or make some other noise, I'll freeze in place and give one soft cow mew just to settle them down in case they alerted to the noise. Then I'll wait a couple of minutes before moving on.

Other than that, If I'm working a ridge line, I may find a good setup and send out a locator bugle into the basin below. After a good long wait, I'll move on a quarter mile or more before repeating the process. But more often than not, I have found more elk by glassing than I have by calling.

[Swede]

If I happen to snap a twig or make some other noise, I'll freeze in place and give one soft cow mew just to settle them down in case they alerted to the noise. Then I'll wait a couple of minutes before moving on.

That is what I was referring to. There are places where it is impossible to move without making noise. I may make a cow mew just in case elk are within ear shot. Never walk with a cadence like you are going somewhere. Remember you are hunting. A good way to get busted is just walking somewhere and not being totally focused on your surroundings and the potential for elk nearby.

[ElkNut1]

Vince, yes sir bulls & cows can become call shy! Not sure why you were under the impression I felt otherwise?

ElkNut/Paul

[SilentDeath]

Thanks for all the replies. Maybe I should have given a little more information, on where I was calling and the frequency. My hunting partner and I could not see each other 30 to 50 yards apart most of the time because it was in super thick country. We were in an OTC unit in Colorado, and the elk weren't talking during daylight. We were new to the unit, so we were covering a lot of ground/scouting as we go looking for sign. Both of the bulls I ran into at 20 yards had little-to-no sign in the previous half a mile. but they let us walk right up to them, I theorize, because we were giving a cow call back and forth to each other probably every 30 to 50 yards that we traveled forward. I figured it was not harming anything considering they let us walk right up to them in thick stuff, and did not leave before that. But they also would not respond to the locate bugle we had done every quarter mile or so. I guess what Paul has mentioned on some podcasts when elk will not respond is to get up high and listen during the day. We didn't do that, because we were trying to find sign while covering ground since we were brand new to the unit. And the cow calls we gave while walking were generally just loud enough for us to keep track of each other. Anybody got any other tactics for finding elk in a new unit if they're not talking during the day?

[Swede]

If the elk are not talking, you can sit on the hilltop and listen all day for nothing. Ditto if they are not around. It often happens that we walk a long way with no fresh sign, then all of a sudden they are right there. The elk cover a large range and it may take over a 10 days for them to return. By the time they get back there is no fresh sign around. If it has rained it looks like they left last Spring.
Elknut knows elk and elk calling, but I understand where Saddlesore got the idea that he teaches that elk do not become call shy. It is because some followers claim, as we saw in a recent post, that the elk are biologically wired to call in late September. They can't help themselves is how I remember the post reading. I suspect Saddlesore hunts an area where there are enough hunters around to shut down day time calling to such an extent you rarely hear a bull bugle when you are out hunting. It takes no intelligence to know to quit calling if every time you call back, or come around, you run into some little Nimrod trying to kill you.

[ElkNut1]

Please go over the App, there are countless tactics recommended for bringing elk your way whether they're bugling or not! Check out the Regathering mews, Cow Bugles, Advertising Sequences, Breeding Sequences, Cold Calling Sequences, Creative Cow Calling Sequences, Slow Play, etc. It's all there sir. Also check out the New Hunters section. You need to pour over the info there under Tips for each Tactic, don't just read it, study it!

ElkNut/Paul

[Swede]

[quote="SilentDeath" I guess what Paul has mentioned on some podcasts when elk will not respond is to get up high and listen during the day. We didn't do that, because we were trying to find sign while covering ground since we were brand new to the unit.[/quote]

What I posted above was mainly designed to address this comment. I think it is what Paul was commenting on. As a tree stand hunter I have sat several thousand hours in my elk stand. What I was saying is that just sitting and listening won't accomplish much on days the elk are either not there, or are being quiet. That is most days. I don't have the app and have no way to use it, so I have no idea what is on it, but assuming it is completely consistent with other things Paul has put out, you will find several things you can try even if the elk are quiet. You have to get things going yourself. I have noticed when I have tried these things that you need more patience than when they are sounding off.