So You Wanna Kill A BIG Bull, huh?

[Trumkin the Dwarf]

So do I! Bigger than the one on my back in that neat photo to the side. The darndest thing is, I don't actually know the best ways to go about it. Target herdbulls during archery? Seems logical, but easier said than done. Glass them up in the late season? Seems difficult to find any elk in the open once the boom sticks come out, let alone a 350" grandpa that's been dodging wolves and grizzer b'ar since I was still in college!

I'm on the mend from the first surgery to turn my faulty colon into a non issue, and I'm pondering the best way to trophy hunt. Cause if there's one thing I learned from fishing, it's that you only catch the absolute monsters two ways. Get lucky, or have a gameplan that isn't anything like your ordinary strategy for catching a lot of fish. So lets hear it. What are some ways to look for the needles in haystacks? Cause sometimes, I really think I want to kill a bull big enough to override my wife's protests and get it done up furry style for the living room wall (she's fine with euro's but not full mounts).

[Swede]

Dwarf: Glad to see you are posting after your surgery. I hope you fully recover very soon and will pray for that. There is a big bull out there for you, but it will be up to you to find him. I think the most important factor aside from luck which we don't really control, is hunting where there are significant numbers of big bulls if you are going to target them. Most of these, over the counter public land areas are difficult big bull hunts now days. Another factor is to call and locate the big bulls, then go after them exclusively. One of the things that messes up a big bull hunt is settling early for a nice 5X5 or the like. You have to be willing to go home with an unused tag and just keep going.

[Lefty]

Dwarf: Glad to see you are posting after your surgery. I hope you fully recover very soon and will pray for that. ,,,,,.

Ill agree with Swede on that one


But,.. But but You only need one big bull! While there is luck sometimes involved create your own luck. You can also "buy some of that luck hunting private ranches or hunts on Utahs CWMU of luck of the draw on some New Mexico or Nevada hunts ( maybe your worst chance ) and guided hunts.

I cant or wont play the whole game, that some guys do ,... many of the very best trophy hunters give up a family for whats on their wall ,.. I hunt where and when I can. and am limited by a budget, You just need to take advantage of the hunts you have available whether that is time of year or luck of the draw. And expect to go years without filling a tag.

Being a teacher . I was very limited when I could hunt. left me one personal day, Saturdays and Labor day. But early and mid August,.. I was scout scout scout Im just telling you for what ever reason I saw many huge bulls my rookie years.


For me If I wanted a trophy bull Like many states Idaho has a trophy bull hunt, some with good draw odds. Those first of October bulls are easy so easy Thats what my wife will be putting in for this year. A buddy runs a Utah CWMU . They get to take 3 bulls a year,.. in the pat 10 years I dont think any were under 320. . They have a selection of 12 or 13 bull each year for 2 weeks then the bulls move to Nevada or Idaho.
Then those late season bull hunts. A real physical and mental feat for sure But you need to know where those big bull hide outs are located and draw the tag.




If a big bull is your target, target big bulls . A neighbor drew a CWMU hunt in Utah. There were not any hunters on the opening day. He went to scout , and would be waiting a day for a friend to come and hunt. The outfitter took him out, and a bull never seen on the ranch showed up,. killed it 4 minutes into the hunt.
A friend at work drew a early trophy bull hunt. He spent all of August , watching one bull . the moment of legal shooting time he dropped his monster,..
Oh and big fish: big bait,

[saddlesore]

First ,if you hunt Colorado, you need to recognize CPW's elk herd management is for quantity ,not quality .That is why the trophy units take 20-25 points to draw.Even so-so units take 12-13 . Even in units like 201 where only 25 tags a year are awarded and the season is before any regular rifle season , the average bull is in the 350 class and maybe one is taken bigger than that. each year. Mine was 343.

Bulls in the 350+ class need to be able to reach 6-8 years and in Colorado, they don't get that chance. It doesn't matter if there are sticks flying, muzzle loaders, or center fire rifles, the number of big mature bulls are limited , except maybe on private land. The typical elk killed is a 4 x with some doing 5x. Hunting Colorado for trophy bulls is an oxymoron. Couple that with the success rate of archery season being 11-12%, which includes cows and calves, your chance of winning the lottery is better than taking a 380 bull.
Next is the fact that many units do not have the genes to produce massive bulls , or the correct nutrients. Compare bulls take in Pennsylvania that are massive.The have mild winters and abundant food.

Bottom line, either get out your check book and pay $10-$15 K for elk hunts in Utah, AZ,Vermejo Ranch, or other Indian reservations or take the first legal bull that walks by or eat 10-15 years of tag soup. After hunting elk for 50 years, that is about my average for killing above average bulls

[Billy Goat]

I'm not hunting a BIG bull. I'm just looking for a legal one thats stupid enough to stand in one place for long enough.

[WapitiTalk1]

I'm not hunting a BIG bull. I'm just looking for a legal one thats stupid enough to stand in one place for long enough.

Ha, sound wisdom. The dumb ones are the best.

[Swede]

I have eaten some small young and dumb elk, and I have eaten some older chewy ones. I kinda like young and dumb.

[Lefty]

I have eaten some small young and dumb elk, and I have eaten some older chewy ones. I kinda like young and dumb.

Swede Put your teeth in

[Trumkin the Dwarf]

Well, that stirred the pot! Lots of good points made, especially about hunting time being a precious commodity, and not to be thrown away chasing ghosts. Especially in CO. Thankfully, I don't hunt CO for elk normally. Montana is where I'm familiar, and there are good genetics in most of its mountain ranges. I'm sensing the general consensus in this crowd is more along the lines of shoot first, ask questions later .

[Tigger]

You wanna shoot da big bull, eh? Here is a good strategy. Hunt Montana, but build points in another state. I would focus on a 5-10 point unit. that way, you can hunt the same unit a few times and gain familiarity with it. Problem with one of those 20+ point units is you are only going to hunt it once and that is a lot of money and marbles in that one basket.

[Indian Summer]

There are big bulls on public land general license areas in Wyoming. I know for a fact I could kill bigger ones if I moved about 100 miles south of where I hunt now. Where I hunt 320 is probably about as good as it gets. There are 350 bulls and even the needle in the haystack 370 down there. But they don’t get that big by letting their guard down. Nevertheless... one of these days I plan to go down there and try my luck. I’d give my right um.... ok ear to kill a 350 plus. It sure is hard to walk away from an area I know so well with 6 points 300 Inches plus in my binos every day. Could you?

[Trumkin the Dwarf]

There are big bulls on public land general license areas in Wyoming. I know for a fact I could kill bigger ones if I moved about 100 miles south of where I hunt now. Where I hunt 320 is probably about as good as it gets. There are 350 bulls and even the needle in the haystack 370 down there. But they don’t get that big by letting their guard down. Nevertheless... one of these days I plan to go down there and try my luck. I’d give my right um.... ok ear to kill a 350 plus. It sure is hard to walk away from an area I know so well with 6 points 300 Inches plus in my binos every day. Could you?

Ah, I'm glad you chimed in Joe! I figure you know more than most about killing big elk. You're also in a neat spot that lets you see mature 6 pt bulls regularly. I know I started this thread with a number in mind, but realistically, it's hard to ever justify passing on any 6x6 bull. I think I started out a little naive, being from MT. There are 330-350" in a lot of the elk herds there. Finding and killing them is another matter. But someones friend or neighbor whacks a monster most years. And those big elk come from all sorts of places. I think I didn't quite appreciate how elk herds top out genetically because there are some really great genes in MT.

[Indian Summer]

Where I hunted in Montana I never saw a bull over 330. There are definitely bigger ones now but not when I was outfitting there. But I do know of a 360 a 390 and a 400 incher killed there. I held the two biggest in my hands and drooled like a rabid dog. But those bulls were like shooting stars and only a fool would leave a good hunting area in hopes of finding another like them. That’s why even though I know I could go hunt an area with higher top end potential I just keep looking for the same little 300-320 bulls.

[Indian Summer]

I will say this... big is a relative term. I would say that we’d all like to kill a huge bull. Well except for Swede. He’s just alternative grocery shopping. Nothing wrong with that. But I think it’s safe to say that nearly every elk hunter out there hopes to some degree to kill something at least a little bigger than what they’ve already tagged. In the beginning we’ve all had the same goal of any legal elk. That goal can remain the same for years. If you’re hunting where the pressure is high and opportunities are low then a legal bull is a hard earned trophy. I’ve surely been there.

It took me a long time... decades, before I was able to let a legal bull walk. To do that means one of two things or both. It means that either you are confident that you’ll have another opportunity later in your hunt or that you really want something bigger and are ok with going home empty handed if that doesn’t happen.

I should mention that a criteria can change. In other words if you’re on a two week hunt you might set a standard for the first week and then lower your standards the second week. That’s how I go about it. Then there is the saying “Shoot on the first day what you’d shoot on the last” I’ve been there too. How many hunters here are willing to pass up on a public land bull to look for something bigger? Not huge just bigger.

[saddlesore]

Then there is the saying “Shoot on the first day what you’d shoot on the last” I’ve been there too. How many hunters here are willing to pass up on a public land bull to look for something bigger? Not huge just bigger.

Nope not me.I have shot some nice bulls. Don't want to shoot anymore. No place to hang them and I have three mounts in my office now. I have horns hanging on the garage ,barn, carriage shed, and laying in a pile that the squirrels chew on, stuck up in the garage rafters. Now I only want to go home with a tender juicy cow. I have chewed enough tough old bulls I wore my teeth out. 2018, I killed my last bull.Those horns are still sitting out in the garage and every time I need to do some thing, I have to move them.That bull is probably about a 310 or so.Just a nice mature 6x.

It was a solo hunt. It took me 15 minutes into the season to kill it, another 6 hours to get it in bags and another 3 hours to get the hinds on the mule and back to camp.Then 1/2 the next day to get the fronts and loins out.I used myself up.

Horns hold no glamour for me anymore. In 2019 I killed a nice18 month old cow.I have not even started eating it yet.Still chewing on the 2018 bull.

Back the in year they destroyed the New York Towers, on 9/11, I was guiding friend from Missouri. I bird dogged big big 7x bull right past him that he took down with his muzzle loader at about15 yards on public land.(Just barely made the 7's). This guy is about 6'-'7". A tall thin feller and it took both to barely be able to hang each hind quarter in the tree and that mule groaned when when four of us loaded the hinds on it. He quit hunting after that, as he would never be able to shoot one bigger so there was no point in more hunting.That galled me because I lost a good hunting buddy after that.

Tom's bull.jpg (140.49 KiB) Viewed 8169 times

[Lefty]

He quit hunting after that, as he would never be able to shoot one bigger so there was no point in more hunting.That galled me because I lost a good hunting buddy after that.]

Joe" Just my point of view. While a lot of people say there was no point in more hunting. after such things We know thats may not really be the reason.
I have seen hunters hang their hat on that one big buck, and carry that the rest of their hunting life too. And I know old timers who hadnt fired a shot in years even when great animals presented opportunities

My wife was honest why she wont hunt much anymore,.. Its not fun for her to get up early or be in the cold. She loves warm afternoon fishing too

[Billy Goat]

Then there is the saying “Shoot on the first day what you’d shoot on the last” I’ve been there too. How many hunters here are willing to pass up on a public land bull to look for something bigger? Not huge just bigger.

Nope not me.I have shot some nice bulls. Don't want to shoot anymore. No place to hang them and I have three mounts in my office now. I have horns hanging on the garage ,barn, carriage shed, and laying in a pile that the squirrels chew on, stuck up in the garage rafters. Now I only want to go home with a tender juicy cow. I have chewed enough tough old bulls I wore my teeth out. 2018, I killed my last bull.Those horns are still sitting out in the garage and every time I need to do some thing, I have to move them.That bull is probably about a 310 or so.Just a nice mature 6x.

It was a solo hunt. It took me 15 minutes into the season to kill it, another 6 hours to get it in bags and another 3 hours to get the hinds on the mule and back to camp.Then 1/2 the next day to get the fronts and loins out.I used myself up.

Horns hold no glamour for me anymore. In 2019 I killed a nice18 month old cow.I have not even started eating it yet.Still chewing on the 2018 bull.

Back the in year they destroyed the New York Towers, on 9/11, I was guiding friend from Missouri. I bird dogged big big 7x bull right past him that he took down with his muzzle loader at about15 yards on public land.(Just barely made the 7's). This guy is about 6'-'7". A tall thin feller and it took both to barely be able to hang each hind quarter in the tree and that mule groaned when when four of us loaded the hinds on it. He quit hunting after that, as he would never be able to shoot one bigger so there was no point in more hunting.That galled me because I lost a good hunting buddy after that.

Tom's bull.jpg

I feel like there are several lessons to learn from a lifelong hunter here:
1. old bulls look cool, but dont taste as good
2. Vince is a dangerous man in the woods if you are an elk
3. dont be a "tom"
4. all those things you chased cause they look cool end up as clutter in your garage
5. frankly, it reads a lot like Ecclesiastes
6. and a filled cow tag is pretty danged handy

[Trumkin the Dwarf]

Then there is the saying “Shoot on the first day what you’d shoot on the last” I’ve been there too. How many hunters here are willing to pass up on a public land bull to look for something bigger? Not huge just bigger.

Nope not me.I have shot some nice bulls. Don't want to shoot anymore. No place to hang them and I have three mounts in my office now. I have horns hanging on the garage ,barn, carriage shed, and laying in a pile that the squirrels chew on, stuck up in the garage rafters. Now I only want to go home with a tender juicy cow. I have chewed enough tough old bulls I wore my teeth out. 2018, I killed my last bull.Those horns are still sitting out in the garage and every time I need to do some thing, I have to move them.That bull is probably about a 310 or so.Just a nice mature 6x.

It was a solo hunt. It took me 15 minutes into the season to kill it, another 6 hours to get it in bags and another 3 hours to get the hinds on the mule and back to camp.Then 1/2 the next day to get the fronts and loins out.I used myself up.

Horns hold no glamour for me anymore. In 2019 I killed a nice18 month old cow.I have not even started eating it yet.Still chewing on the 2018 bull.

Back the in year they destroyed the New York Towers, on 9/11, I was guiding friend from Missouri. I bird dogged big big 7x bull right past him that he took down with his muzzle loader at about15 yards on public land.(Just barely made the 7's). This guy is about 6'-'7". A tall thin feller and it took both to barely be able to hang each hind quarter in the tree and that mule groaned when when four of us loaded the hinds on it. He quit hunting after that, as he would never be able to shoot one bigger so there was no point in more hunting.That galled me because I lost a good hunting buddy after that.

Tom's bull.jpg

There's a lot of wisdom there Vince. Thanks for sharing!

I agree with you Billy Goat, it feels a little like the book of Ecclesiastes. I'm really thankful the Bible didn't stop with that book.

[Indian Summer]

Bulls aren’t always bigger (heavier) than cows although taking the entire skull tips the scales some for sure. I’ve killed really fat cows and small bodied bulls. The cows were by no means the best eaters either.

What I learned from that post is Vince needs a man cave! I’m a bone collector to the bone! My living room is an antler storage facility. When I’m too old to run up a mountain I might install a few pine trees, with rubs, cover the floor in pine needles, and spray some elk pee on the curtains!!! Might even give the furniture away and put a two man tent in the middle of the floor. Do I need a psychologist?

[Trumkin the Dwarf]

Bulls aren’t always bigger (heavier) than cows although taking the entire skull tips the scales some for sure. I’ve killed really fat cows and small bodied bulls. The cows were by no means the best eaters either.

What I learned from that post is Vince needs a man cave! I’m a bone collector to the bone! My living room is an antler storage facility. When I’m too old to run up a mountain I might install a few pine trees, with rubs, cover the floor in pine needles, and spray some elk pee on the curtains!!! Might even give the furniture away and put a two man tent in the middle of the floor. Do I need a psychologist?

You're gonna need some live ruffed grouse to give you an occasional heart function check!

[Tigger]

Bulls aren’t always bigger (heavier) than cows although taking the entire skull tips the scales some for sure. I’ve killed really fat cows and small bodied bulls. The cows were by no means the best eaters either.

What I learned from that post is Vince needs a man cave! I’m a bone collector to the bone! My living room is an antler storage facility. When I’m too old to run up a mountain I might install a few pine trees, with rubs, cover the floor in pine needles, and spray some elk pee on the curtains!!! Might even give the furniture away and put a two man tent in the middle of the floor. Do I need a psychologist?

Big.....Slow.....Hanging....Curveball...…


Yes!


Actually I do too with as much as I think about elk hunting. I might take a vacation to sit in your living room.

[saddlesore]

This is the size to shoot.There is a reason those beef bulls are all ground into hamburger. I have had some tough cows, but not as many as bulls.
Presently my psuedo man cave has 10 mounts,sheep, goat,3 elk, two antlers only,javelina ,pronghorn, goat horns.Don't need any more horns.

2019 cow resized.jpg (211.79 KiB) Viewed 8145 times

[Swede]

I have had a lot of good bulls and good cows. I can't tell the difference most of the time which is which. As far as the question I.S. asked is concerned: I don't know. If he does, I suspect R.J. should contact one for us and see if we could get a group rate.

I like Vince's "bull" just fine. I will pack out the antlers, then we will have backstrap dinner at camp when you get in.

[Kessler10]

any legal bull will do for me and I do not foresee that changing anytime soon. granted I have yet to shoot a bull with my bow so its possible my position would change. But I doubt it. the best part for me is working a bull in, seeing them in their enviroment and hearing them bugle. Bulls from small to large do that.

Ill take the first one that comes in. I have gravitated away from wanting to shoot a cow on the first few days of my hunt because I want to get into bulls/elk and see them and have the experience. That really is the only reason I wouldn't shoot a cow early, because I want to keep hunting and want to see more bulls and elk. I would not hesitate to shoot a cow after the first week, I usually hunt 2 weeks. I wait all year to hunt elk and be among-st em, Ill be damed if I only get to hunt for a day or two.

At this stage I would take any bull I see the first day just to get a bull under my belt. After this happens I dont see myself taking any elk on the first couple days of a hunt unless its a very unique situation. Im out there first and foremost for the time to be in the mountains, the challenge it presents through fair chase, and to experience elk in their natural habitat. with the meat being a very close second.

[Indian Summer]

You can shoot an elk and still enjoy time in the mountains. As a matter of fact it’s amazing what you see when you have no tag or weapon. That’s probably the best way to see a huge bull! Hiking the hills with so little weight... no weapon, no knife saw or game bags etc is a blast. Best of all having no pressure your decision making takes on a whole new light. It’s truly fun and a great way to learn more about your area and the elk there during hunting season.

[Swede]

I will take a spike or geed cow elk on any day of the season that I can. I have put in too many long hard hunts to pass on a good chance the first morning. Just my thought.

[Indian Summer]

All depends on some things. I hunted Washington and Idaho before. I’d shoot the first bull I could there. If my hunt was half over and cows were legal I’d be walking around with my finger on the trigger. In Montana I wouldn’t shoot a spike or raghorn. With a week left I’d shoot any branch antlered bull even a small one. On a two week hunt in Wyoming it’s 6 points only the first week then 5 points only for a couple days. With 4 days left any bull.

If I was Luke Kessler living in Nebraska and bow hunting I would shoot only a 5 point or better for the entire hunt and come back in rifle season if I had to, also because I wanted to. I’d be all about learning my area so coming back would be fine with me. You can kill a cow during the gun season there so I wouldn’t worry about tag soup. I wish I lived only 1 day’s drive from my elk hunting!

[ishy]

I'm with IS, I will shoot anything and will have just as much fun calling for friends after. If its September it doesn't matter if I have the tag or not I want to be in the woods.

[Elkhunttoo]

If you are hunting with an otc tag and you want to kill a big bull. You have to go into the season ready to eat tag soup. My cousin hunted for the same bull for 3 years...Huge bull on an otc archery tag in Idaho. He passed up some super big bulls to harvest his beast. He said of all of the times he was close to getting the bull the night he finally got him was mostly all luck. Yes Swede, he shot the bull from a tree stand

[Swede]

For big bulls in archery season the tree stand is very good, if you know the critter's habits some. I have set up for specific animals in the past because I knew their area and habits. Did your cousin have his bull on trail camera at his kill site? How did he determine where to set up for the ambush?

[Elkhunttoo]

It's been 3 ish years since he told me the whole story. If I remember right it all started with a trail cam picture. Not sure if it was at that sight but if I remember right he either got a shot at him the first year or had him close and something went wrong. He decided as long as he had evidence the bull was still alive (from pics and sheds) he was going to hunt him. Was late getting out on night so went to his stand at a wallow/water. He saw the bull coming in all by himself so he held still waiting for the bull to come to the water. Only the bull wasn't coming for the water, just happened to be going by. He almost missed his opportunity but was able to get a shot and take the bull... taped out at over 380

[Pop-r]

Depends alot on how deep your pockets are. Public or private? Anyone can kill big bulls on private. They're a totally different beast!

[juglow]

You have a dandy bull on your back in your avatar pic...that most hunters would consider a lifetime bull
Like so many say, the elk are where the elk are and you can only improve your odds by hunting where their is a greater chance at trophy animals. They can be found on public OTC for sure but are wise and old for a reason. I've been privileged to see them and make some plays on them just to be humbled by their sixth sense lol. I've started using goHUNT which helps put all the research needed in one place to help narrow down what it would take in targeting a trophy unit and how many points its going to take. I am not a trophy hunter by any stretch of the imagination though. I killed one cow and she had a legal bull with her...she just looked juicer and bigger

[Trumkin the Dwarf]

You have a dandy bull on your back in your avatar pic...that most hunters would consider a lifetime bull

I am not a trophy hunter by any stretch of the imagination though. I killed one cow and she had a legal bull with her...she just looked juicer and bigger

Yes, that bull is going to be hard for me to ever top. And like you, given the choice between a fat cow and a scarred up 5pt bull, I will most likely shoot the cow. But I do still dream about killing something bigger someday. Preferably in rifle season, after a couple mile tracking job in the snow (hey, a guy can dream, right?)

[Indian Summer]

That post reminds me of two different bulls that I trailed to their beds and as they laid there in what they considered to be a safe spot I rolled them right where they laid. Definitely some hunts I’ll never forget. I did that one other time but it turned out to be a big spike which wasn’t legal where I was hunting.

[Trumkin the Dwarf]

That post reminds me of two different bulls that I trailed to their beds and as they laid there in what they considered to be a safe spot I rolled them right where they laid. Definitely some hunts I’ll never forget. I did that one other time but it turned out to be a big spike which wasn’t legal where I was hunting.

As someone who has killed a big bull in textbook September fashion, with bugles everywhere, and covered up in elk, I still think it's more exciting to kill an animal you've tracked down over a long distance in the snow.