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Is Hunting Too Cheap?

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Is Hunting Too Cheap?

Postby Swede » 05 17, 2020 •  [Post 1]

Are resident tags too cheap? Is the hunting experience too easy? Are too many people encouraged to take up hunting because they have this mistaken idea that it is a cheap and easy source of meat or the challenge to outdo the guy they work with? I do not want to discourage people especially poorer one not to hunt, but has hunting become something we can buy a tag for and then go out on weekends, or take a week off and go elk hunting. Is elk hunting a cheap and easy source of entertainment?
Hunting is about the biggest bull with the biggest rack of antlers. We need that for something to brag about and show off. I remember there were many years before I ever heard of Boone & Crocket, or Pope & Young. I remember when a bull or buck were described by the number of points on each antler. I remember hearing about "bench legged" bucks, and how much fat was on the animal. I remember when hunters would have looked at you as a space align it you said you had a 300 class bull. People were impressed that you got a 5X5 or 6X6 because you had a source of meat that would last through the winter.
I remember the days of two wheel drive pickups, old army tents and a bolt action military rifle. I remember when hunting was not for the less adventuresome. Saddlesore posted about difficult hunts where it was far from comfortable. It was hard and uncertain. Sometimes your life depended on your ability to cope with new and challenging situations. If you fell and broke something, you needed to be prepared to spend the night out alone. Fellow hunters would start looking the next day because you did not return to camp. We had no GPS. We had no $300 pants or a $500 coat. If we had waterproof boots, they were made of rubber, and to keep your feet warm you wore two pair of socks, and stayed on the move. I could go on and on about the modern inventions that have made hunting "better", but is it really better?
Now I can go out and call in five hunters in a span of about an hour. The woods are full of these people that are out hunting or at least they think they are. They all are equipped with fancy clothes that pretty much look alike. We have a hunting uniform, and we have a great bow or rifle. Our packs are full of fancy items, and the cost is over $3,000 for the equipment. My question is; are we leaving behind a great tradition and genuine adventure and accepting a cheap, but expensive substitute?
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Re: Is Hunting Too Cheap?

Postby Billy Goat » 05 17, 2020 •  [Post 2]

fair question. while I dont think its "too cheap", I do think it can be made as expensive as we can afford.

my first trip to the mountains cost me about $3k (OTC, bow, public). my first year costs were higher cause I bought a new bow (radical improvement), boots, GPS, etc.

most expensive trip ever for me ran ~$5k, which was a guided rifle hunt in a draw unit, also public.

all other years run between $1400-$3000. successful trips cost more cause of the processing, and taxidermy (bear rug wasnt cheap....). median trip runs me about $1500 (yes, I track all this in a spreadsheet).

we still run a pretty cheap camp, (and it looks like it....). two 16x16 army tents for lodging + a portable carport for the kitchen. most of our improvements are on a poboy basis. My dad bought a surplus stove off a camper and built a pretty cool camp kitchen setup.

I would CERTAINLY say it aint too easy (I'm 3 for 10, I think) on 5 bow hunts and 5 rifle hunts.

there are far cheaper ways to feed the family. the 3 heifers in our back pasture are fun to feed and eat, and far less work, for instance.....

that said, elk hunting has become a passion in a way no whitetail or pig hunt ever could. hard to explain, really.
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Re: Is Hunting Too Cheap?

Postby saddlesore » 05 17, 2020 •  [Post 3]

Colorado sure isn't cheap, by the time I buy a Qualifying license, the tag itself, Search & Rescue fee.Hunter Education fee.Elk meat is about the most expensive meat you can eat. I can buy a yearling beef,feed it for another year.Finish it on grain and have 1200-1300 pounds on the hoof.Which should get me 300-400 pounds of butchered meat.
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Re: Is Hunting Too Cheap?

Postby Trumkin the Dwarf » 05 17, 2020 •  [Post 4]

You're crazy, Swede! :D

It's been glorified, and hyped up as something it shouldn't be, but too cheap? This is America, where there are many rich and entitled people. If hunting were 5 times as expensive it would attract a whole different crowd. A whole different crowd of folks would see it as worthwhile, as a status symbol. It would become an even more exclusive sport, with leases even more ubiquitous.

Meanwhile, when I was a MT native, I could put 3 deer in my freezer for less than $200 bucks, including the gas money, if I just grabbed a couple OTC doe tags. If those tags had been twice as expensive even, I wouldn't have been hunting! I was a broke as dirt college student!
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Re: Is Hunting Too Cheap?

Postby Indian Summer » 05 17, 2020 •  [Post 5]

Swede rememberers the first time he pulled into a drive through window for fast food....
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Re: Is Hunting Too Cheap?

Postby Swede » 05 17, 2020 •  [Post 6]

I know that the people on this and other forums are avid hunters, and hunting is not inexpensive. Hunting is in our blood and we put everything into it. Cost wise it is far more expensive now than it was in 1959, even in 2020 dollars. Three men used to go out hunting in an old two wheel drive pickup with a short narrow box. The camping gear we carried barely filled the box with nothing sticking up above the level of the bed. Now I have a 4X4 truck with a cab high canopy filled to the brim, and a full 10 foot long utility trailer being towed behind. I have stuff. I have a lot of stuff, but have I cheapened the hunt part? Would I go if I had almost none of it? Would I go if I had no pack equipment? What would it be like to go out wearing a Filson wool coat with pockets to carry my lunch and anything else I needed? Would the blue jeans I work in be adequate now? How about just having a rifle with iron sights? Would it be acceptable to camp with just a sleeping bag, a small tent for three guys, a gas lantern and stove? Everything else was simply things we had for use in the home kitchen or around the house. Would you go out in late October through Thanksgiving prepared like that today, or have we rendered hunting down to kill on the cheap? Is it just kill for the glory?
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Re: Is Hunting Too Cheap?

Postby wawhitey » 05 17, 2020 •  [Post 7]

Swede wrote: What would it be like to go out wearing a Filson wool coat with pockets to carry my lunch and anything else I needed? How about just having a rifle with iron sights?



Filson wool coats still work in modern times. As do iron sights.
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Re: Is Hunting Too Cheap?

Postby Swede » 05 17, 2020 •  [Post 8]

I really like that old Marlin as dad carried one very similar that had the Ballard rifling and same iron sights. But would you travel 10-12 hours from home in a two wheel drive 39 Chevrolet, with an extra quart of oil for just in case, some tools in case you have mechanical troubles, and a set of tire chains. Would you go out in November when the only things special for the camp experience was a surplus army tent, a surplus army sleeping bag, a gas Coleman stove and gas lantern? Actually the lantern was often used to light the house in the winter when the power lines were down. We always had a wood stove we did, or one we could cook on.
Some people would of coarse. I think if hunting is in your blood, the answer is "yes" without hesitation. Hunting was more fun back then with very few people out. We did not get more game. It was just as difficult then as it is now.
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Re: Is Hunting Too Cheap?

Postby Billy Goat » 05 17, 2020 •  [Post 9]

Swede wrote:But would you travel 10-12 hours from home in a two wheel drive 39 Chevrolet, with an extra quart of oil for just in case, some tools in case you have mechanical troubles, and a set of tire chains. Would you go out in November when the only things special for the camp experience was a surplus army tent, a surplus army sleeping bag, a gas Coleman stove and gas lantern?


the answer is yes. I'd hunt whenever I could, wherever I could, with whatever I had. :)

Swede, if it makes you feel any better... our "hunt vehicle" on my 2014 trip was a Volkswagon Jetta Station wagon. it got 45 MPG (diesel, standard). we looked a bit unusual, but brought a 4x4 off the hill with it. :)
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Re: Is Hunting Too Cheap?

Postby Billy Goat » 05 17, 2020 •  [Post 10]

our camp varies year to year, but has gotten nicer and nicer as we've found "deals" on better stuff to fine tune the experience.

I keep a close eye on the milsurp tent market in my area. the 18x36 you see on the right was too cumbersome for easy setup/teardown. I bought it about 2 months before our 2018 trip for $500. sold it after the trip for $800! deals like that transaction help buy down my trip costs.

FWIW..... we've pretty well standardized on the 16x16 expandable frame tent (seen on left). I now have 2 1/2 of those (missing poles for that 1/2).
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Re: Is Hunting Too Cheap?

Postby Magic » 05 17, 2020 •  [Post 11]

Without question, the most valuable asset that I have is my time. I guess that I have never thought much about whether hunting is cheap or expensive. If I couldn't afford it, it didn't happen. The time that I have spent with my wife, and son Mule Deer and Elk hunting has all been time well spent and I have no idea how many $$$ have gone into these trips.
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Re: Is Hunting Too Cheap?

Postby Swede » 05 17, 2020 •  [Post 12]

Guys: I know some would be out elk hunting regardless. No one needs to explain or justify themselves, but do you think the hunting populations would shrink considerably if that was the way we all hunted now? We had people traveling by train, then horse and wagon to get to where they wanted to elk hunt back early in the 20th century. It took a week to get there. If we went back that far, I wonder if I would go, or I would stay close to home, and hunt deer. For those folks hunting in 1910, the cost was high in time and commitment. The dollars were not insignificant either even though I don't think they had invented elk tags yet.
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Re: Is Hunting Too Cheap?

Postby Magic » 05 17, 2020 •  [Post 13]

Even then it would come down to available resources whether dollars or time.
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Re: Is Hunting Too Cheap?

Postby Indian Summer » 05 17, 2020 •  [Post 14]

Every once in awhile, often when a state has in increase in the price of their elk license, someone will say what a shame it is that hunting is becoming a rich man’s game. But I know that some of those same people are riding around in luxury vehicles and driving down to Starbucks to pay $6 for a cup of coffee. I have always said that it’s about priorities mainly. If you want something bad enough you’ll find a way to get it even if it means sacrificing something else.

There are different kinds of elk hunters. We’ve all seen threads online this year that say “Planning an elk hunt for 2021 or22”. Every once in awhile someone who doesn’t know me will ask “Are you going elk hunting this year?” Every time I hear that I laugh out loud and say I am going elk hunting every year until I can’t and after that I’ll just keep talking about it. The hunters who do it every year have their hunts down to a science and that makes it cheaper. It can be expensive if you are a gear junkie but once you have what you need it doesn’t have to be.

In one way I’m like most people missing the days when licenses were cheaper and draw odds weren’t an issue. But on the other hand I wouldn’t care if they jacked the price up another thousand dollars so I could draw my Wyoming tag as my second choice and still gain a preference point to hunt a killer unit every once in awhile. To the guys who are 100% committed things like cost and point creep have pros and cons. Sure we have to pay the piper but it thins out the herd. I smile every time I read a post that says screw that state I’m burning my points this year and I’m done there.
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Re: Is Hunting Too Cheap?

Postby wawhitey » 05 17, 2020 •  [Post 15]

You mention the 4wd thing a bit. I gotta tell ya, even if i didnt hunt id still own a 4wd. Hell, i can barely get up my driveway sometimes in the winter. Ive gotten home from alaska and had to park st my neighbors place while i plowed my driveway out. Roads out here get bad, and i commute across snoqualmie pass too.
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Re: Is Hunting Too Cheap?

Postby saddlesore » 05 18, 2020 •  [Post 16]

Joe.The thing about Colorado jacking up their prices is we pay more to get less. Last year, it cost double in tag fees just for me to hunt elk.I could never afford those$800 NR fees.

Up until two years ago, I drove a 20 year old truck. My wife bought me a new one with her inheritance money or I would be still driving the old one and she drives a 18 year old truck.

The only high tech thing, if you would call that, is a $20 Trac phone.No GPS, no Spot,no $800 binos . My range finder was given to me and I live in a 1100 sq ft house.My computer is 15 years old and all we have for a TV is a 32". All my hunting gear is 20+ years old and rifle is 60 years old.Heck,even my mules are 20 and 23 years old.

I have not missed an elk hunt every year in over 45 years, but every years things get tougher when on a fixed income.I figure I will have quit hunting in 3 years,may be two due to my health, but that is about how long I can financially do it even as a resident.
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Re: Is Hunting Too Cheap?

Postby Tigger » 05 18, 2020 •  [Post 17]

Joe, on one hand I agree with ya on the NR fees. But trying to sell that to a significant other can be tough!

Vince, what a nice wife! One piece of advice though, buy brand new food. Don't eat 20 year old bagels.
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Re: Is Hunting Too Cheap?

Postby Swede » 05 18, 2020 •  [Post 18]

I tend to think that nonresident hunters are forced to pay a little too much to hunt. $500 would be more fair, and it still would not be easy for some.
If resident hunters had to pay $250 for a license and elk tag it would thin out the hunter numbers and you would get a better class of hunters too. win-win. Ok guys beat me up for that. :D
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Re: Is Hunting Too Cheap?

Postby Elkhunttoo » 05 18, 2020 •  [Post 19]

I’ll take a swing Swede ;) ... I’m not convinced you would get a classier hunter. Most guys I run into are pretty good but every one occasionally runs into “that dirt bag hunter”. And from my experience some of those are the guys that have plenty of money to buy all the top end stuff so I guess to them that means they own the mountain too.
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Re: Is Hunting Too Cheap?

Postby Magic » 05 18, 2020 •  [Post 20]

Several years ago my Son, Marty and I started buying only one license and we now operate with one hunter and one guide. We have our PP's spread out enough so that one of us can draw every ~2-3 years. It works so well that we should have done it many years ago. I know, I stated in 2017 after shooting my last Bull that it would be my last hunt, but I lied. We will continue as long as I can put one foot in front of the other.
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Re: Is Hunting Too Cheap?

Postby Swede » 05 18, 2020 •  [Post 21]

I doubt we will see my hypothesis tested anywhere, so we can never be really sure. Here is what I have observed that causes me the think the way I do. Out of state hunters are paying a lot. They pay more than the rest of us and would still need to be totally committed to fork out the money to go hunt.
Instate hunters would need to be a little more committed to make that investment. I agree there are a lot of committed instate hunters. I read your stories right here, but some definitely aren't. They don't practice shooting until the day before the season opens. That is when they go get their license and a pack of broadheads, and some noise maker. They can't find last year's noise maker. :lol:
I know my hypothesis is totally based on antidotal information, but it stands to reason that people who pay a little more, would show more commitment. Nonresidents that pay $800 just for the license and tag, and travel two days just to get to their hunting site are shelling out $1,500 overall. In addition they are taking their two week vacation for the hunt. I think these hunters would be just as committed at $1,200 and two weeks off for their hunt.
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Re: Is Hunting Too Cheap?

Postby Lefty » 05 18, 2020 •  [Post 22]

We make hunting as expensive as we want. Sometimes I played the cheap game to hunt. But I dont know anyone around who hunts to put less expensive meat in the freezer
Years back most of my game was opportunity game taken while running my trap line; I also hunted for sport with my friends and family . And most of my life Ive eaten more game meat and so have my daughters, because thats whats in the freezer. Not because its cheaper. Well some years maybe.

I do agree some states do not charge enough for their game. But I also think more states should make a Sportsmans tag like Idaho, and it should cost a bit more,, not much but more. I do think some daily fishing tags cost too much. I loved going to Wyoming to hunting upland or waterfowl $5.00 a day.$40.00 doe antelope got us to wyoming also. And the youth big game tag was dirt cheap in Idaho
I have been offered free hunts, management hunts that included lodging, etc,.. but not worth the cost of the tag to me . So the expense has stopped me .

Are Montana and Wyoming elk tags expensive. I say no. More than I want to pay,, but not too much $$$$ Heck even Alanta average ticket price for general seating is of $100 seat. Whats $800 for a great Montana trophy tag
And Maybe Joe can give us some numbers what a typical non resident puts into a Wyoming or Montana hunt. Not many people hunt out their back door anymore.
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