new area/huntng pressure scenario

[bnsafe]

ok, so i dont thread jack the hunting pressure one ive got a question for yall about your answers. as you know last year was my first year to elk hunt. we found several elk but its 6 miles to where you have to go to get to them. we never saw an elk between the two spots, only an occassional track where they were passing through and nothing really to hold them. there is really no way to get up at 2am and get to them because of all the private ground around the area you have to walk through where they feed at night to get above them. ok, i like everybody else hates hunting pressure. there is alot of national forest fairly close to this spot i hunted but also a ton of camps. if im hearing yall right from the other thread that doesnt mean the elk move to the next county, or even the roughest toughest terrain, like i thought they would if yall are killing some within a mile of the road. soooooooo
give me your scenario, goin to a new place for the first time. there are trucks or camps all over the place. how do you start/hunt the area.
do you just start walking hard for a mile or two, do you hunt like you never say another vehicle or camp, do you forget the trailhead and stop along the side of the road and go in. ????????

[cnelk]

If I look at trying a new area, I first do a 'drive by'....

If I see a mountain, area, or slope that looks interesting, I then look for spots where there are no 'pull-outs', and mark the distance to the nearest parking spot. These no parking spots spots can be 'golden'! You can pull at where you can, and hike back.

I also like to print a topo of the area and 'highlite' all roads, logging roads, MC trails, private land, etc.
From those major access points, I will 'hash out' up to 1/2 mile on each side of the trails, roads.

As you complete this process on a large topo map, you will then see where elk could be holed up or feel secluded.
And sometimes, its not very far away!

[bnsafe]

im not sure im understanding pull outs and parking spots and trailheads etc. can you pull over an park on the side of the road if your on an unimproved road going through a national forest, or do you have to park in certain spots. and do you need a trailhead (whatever that is) to get back into the mountains, or can you just park and walk.

[cnelk]

Many places have parking areas.
There are also places where many park where there is a closed gate that is locked.
DO NOT PARK IN FRONT OF THESE GATES! The FS gets grumpy...

But you can just about park anywhere off a road, as long youre not blocking travel.

Lots of places you can just park, and go hunt...

[Swede]

I think I understand your situation. I too hunt a heavily roaded and pressured area. My advice would be to research a good online topo map (ACME Mapper 2,0) and Google Earth or Flash Earth and locate some good springs or water holes within good cover. Preferably you would find a good tree stand location at the water holes, but a ground blind can do. I would determine the best access routes to these springs, etc., and check them out as early as possible. Set up your tree stand(s) on the best ones. By quietly slipping in, from the direction that least sends your scent through the elk area, and getting into your stand, the elk are not disturbed and do not head off to private land. This it the kind of hunting area where tree stands can be a huge advantage.

[bnsafe]

swede, do you have problems with guys either stealing, walking by, using your tree stands

[Swede]

All of the above. Those things go with the territory. I have found people in my stand several times. I tell them to stay and I move on to a different stand when that happens. It is rare, but people will steal a stand. I never put a chain and lock on mine, so it is my fault. What I dislike more than people in my stand, are the callers tooting their bugles too much in the area and running the elk off.
The best way to hunt this type of area is go alone and stay alone. It is ok to have someone to meet you back in camp, but I do not often invite companions on my hunts, and never at my stand location. To too many hunters "Stealth" is an abstract term and foreign to their hunting technique. There are a few very good tree stand hunters in my camp, but most don't get it very well.

[bnsafe]

makes sense. thanks guys. i guess just because there are 3 trucks parked at the lot doesnt mean elk arnt still in the area. gives me some hope also.

[easeup]

another piece of experience on this subject........
It is always disheartening to find a bunch of truck and hunters at the trailhead/ area you planned to hunt. We all desire to have the whole mountain to ourselves. but one thing I have noticed through the years, is even when there a lot of hunters in an area, I never see many of them and best I can tell they do not mess to much up. If you are in a no ATV area, most hunters do not get off the beaten path much. they use the trail as a fast path to get somewhere; just like you do. People will read the mountain different and go to various points on the mountain and just kind of spreadout I guess. When you meet an archery elk hunter, there is a 90% chance he is another fanatastic guy too. He likes the same things you do which means he doesnt want a crowd either. he is most likely to be respectful of you also.

[bnsafe]

well said, we all want the same things and it is public. i just thought the elk would move out, sounds like maybe not so much

[Lefty]

well said, we all want the same things and it is public. i just thought the elk would move out, sounds like maybe not so much

Elk need to be somewhere
While it isnt in the zone I hunt elk in I found a strange location where the elk "hide " just 1/2 mile from a main highway, less than 300 yards from a perpendicular well used FS road and between a less used FS raodrunning perpinducular to the highway less than 3/4 mile. Water, thick and nasty under brush everyone drives by

[WapitiTalk1]

I'll add one more thing when talking about access trails into an area. Yes sir it's true that many access trails that pierce deeply into a roadless or wilderness area are good tools. I use them a lot myself and I know many others do. If you study the topo maps (as several have offered) oftentimes you'll find a trail less, steep access route from a gravel road that will get you deep into area X with a bit of scouting, route planning, and sweat. There's a few places in some of the areas I hunt that historically have a handfull of hunter trucks at the main access trail head, several to many days each week during the season. I have reconned several ways to get to where some of these trails go by parking on a main road and zig zagging (quasi uphill contouring) or even just busting straight up and over a ridge that drops me into the head end of these trail systems. Some of these park spots and hikes are less than 1/2 mile from the target area which are in some cases, 4 to 5 miles if one were to use the main access trail.. Just another tool for your bags. RJ

[Bartfrncs]

I hunt deer in a highly pressured area but it holds above average oprtunitys. The Elk in the area stick tite to cover opening day and pretty much go unhunted from then on Its pretty much a slam dunk kind of hunt. There are lots of hunters they just wont break brush. Just because there are alot of vehicles at a parking area dosent mean you should write off an area. Bart

[bnsafe]

thanks guys, how big of an area are we talking about that elk will use to hide. im a flatlander so when im looking at where a deer might hide it could be 5 acres. elk obviously need alot more than that.

[bnsafe]

also, what does it take to push an elk out of an area. do the cows pretty much ignore pressure or do they take off also, do they go mostly nocturnal. do you look for fresh poop etc to find new areas. how early do you get to your spot if your hunting a treestand.

[Swede]

How big of an area does it take to hide an elk, is kind of like how long is a string. Hiding area size is somewhat dependent on what is available. What is the terrain and the vegetation like? Also hiding cover is just one component of where elk will stay. Forage, water and thermal protection are components of what elk will use. Even these can vary in size. I will say, based on my limited experience with Eastern Whitetail hunters, that you will be amazed at the size of elk country, and the size of the area they use. The range of a free ranging elk herd could cover 50-60 square miles in a couple week period during the Summer months, or it may be just a couple thousand acres. Security, forage and water all play a part. Security will vary depending on what the animals get used to.
In some areas it does not take much harassment to push elk away. They can get educated real fast. It is interesting that they quickly run off to the ranches during archery season, then when the rifle season opens and the rancher and friends open up on them, they do not immediatlly run back to the public land. All types (size and gender) of elk are likely to move out of an area when the pressure is on. I have found that spikes and smaller bulls are the last to go. I think that is because they are kicked out of the herds, and are left alone. I have killed some of them when everything else is gone.
I go into my trees stand just after daybreak, but that is not critical. I get about 75% of my elk after 5:00PM. Mid to late morning when the elk are moving to their bedding area is the best part of the morning. Personally if I had to give up any part of my tree stand hunting time, it would be the first hour of the day. If you want to hunt on the ground, then the first hour is my highest priority. Many hunters will hunt the ground and call in the morning, then spent the remainder of their day in a stand. I believe you can get the most of both methods by doing that.

[bnsafe]

very interesting. thanks swede. i just learned a ton

[CrazyElkHunter]

I do not change areas very often, but when I do, I always google earth to get a birds eye view for drainages that might have wallows and benches on North East slopes. Contact the local Game Warden for the area your going to hunt for advice and keep his or her cell phone number in yours. Every warden (biologist) has given me good info. Google the unit # and state, and you will find a forum with someone that hunted that area and then private message him. This paid off big time for me when I hunted a draw unit in 2010 and a guy from Tennessee gave me all his best waypoints because he knew he would not be able to hunt there again for several years until he built up preference points. Saved me a lot of time and foot work. His group went 5 for 5 in 2009 and 2 of the bulls were over 360 and broken up. I took a very nice 6x6 with long heavy bases and his right horn was growing out of his forehead and his skull was a inch thicker on that side. This was my 25th archery elk.

[CrazyElkHunter]

My 2011 6x6 and 2012 6x5 bulls were taken less than a 1/2 mile from camp and road.
Not big bulls, but good for the OTC unit we hunt,