Elevation Hunting

[WapitiTalk1]

Ever notice how the elk, from year to year, seem to frequent the same elevation in a particular area? Just curious. RJ

[Swede]

What you wrote is true, but it is not much of a factor where I hunt. There is very little land above the elk's elevation and none below, unless you go out into the open Great Basin range.

[slim9300]

Ever notice how the elk, from year to year, seem to frequent the same elevation in a particular area? Just curious. RJ

Yep. That's exactly right for my MT area. The elk all spend the day around 2/3 to 3/4 slope in the shade.

[elkmtngear]

I have certainly seen elk anywhere from 8000 ft to 11000 ft....but the majority of them seem to always be from 8500 to 9000 ft where I go.

I looked at the distribution map for my area Yesterday on the DOW website....and it totally confirmed those findings.

[Indian Summer]

Yep. There are people & predators on the top. There are even MORE of them coming from the bottoms so elk are further from there, up high where it's cooler and they can see and smell everything below them and hear what's kicking rocks from above. A good general starting point is definitely 2/3 to 3/4 of the way to the top. I love it up there myself and I'm glad that's where those big bulls want to be hunted. lol

[BrentLaBere]

So you guys have me thinking I can narrow down some of my scouting to a new area this year by concentrating on these contours.....
Are you guys just saying this as a rule of thumb, just like you can say elk bed on the north facing slopes, which is a nice generalization?
I guess it has me wondering...

[Mikeha33]

So is there an assumption that elk will generally move higher or lower when pressured? I guess this question would be concerning public hunting areas that do receive a significant amount of pressure.

[WapitiTalk1]

Hunting pressure oftentimes dictates where and when the elk will feed but as a general rule, elk like meadows (they love wet meadows), gentle slopes, lightly timbered/flat parky areas, and if you have them in the area you hunt, established clear cuts can be elk magnets for feeding. With the exception of vertical mountain side clear cuts, these sought after feeding areas are oftentimes lower on the mountain side as the contours relax closer to the bottom of the hillside and the land flattens out a bit. When pressured, elk will feed closer to their bedding areas which are predominately 2/3 to 3/4 up the side of the mountain. As Indian Summer said, this is their safety area (see/smell anything coming from below with the rising thermals in the afternoon/evening) and hear predators from above. Travel routes between feed and bedding areas can be lethal if you hunt them cautiously (or even aggressively with calls during the rut). Just some random thoughts. OK, my late lunch is over.. Back to work for me

[Indian Summer]

With pressure all you can really say is they will react. These are generalizations and YES you can narrow down your scouting to this... for starters anyway. There are obviously exceptions to every rule. There is always a band or 2 of cows down low living the good life, appearing on private etc. There can be a bull with them but those arent the majority and not the elk we're talking about. Those are also pressured elk. Obviously if there is a road across the top with alot of hunters the elk will be lower... or probably over the top of the next ridge over. Their move isn't by any means up or down in elevation. Actually it's more than likely they will relocate to somewhere at the same preferred elevation than simply run down or up.

It sounds like Phantom & I couldn't agree more on this as the place to be.

Using the word contour is right on the money. If the elk aren't where I am I won't go up or down. I'll run that elevation until I find the fresh sign... or hear it! Maybe you've heard me talk about putting an X on the map, with a few secondary Xs, and connecting on or near them. 80+% of the time that's where they are. Sometimes hunters will ask "What's the best elevation" It depends on where the hills top out at in the area. 2/3 or 3/4 of the way up that is the money spot.

One more thing... Brent you mentioned north face slopes as a general rule of thumb. I'm going to toss that theory out the window right now. I might get some differences of opinion but here's my way of looking at it after many many hours and well, months of living in tent camps for work and play. A few basic principles apply to this perspective. First, the bulls are where the cows are. The cows are where the feed is best for them and their calves. This is on the south slopes. Even those north face elk have somewhere where there is some southern exposure... otherwise they wouldn't have much to eat. I was talking to Londraw the other night and here's a lay of the land I described:

Picture a place where a major part of the topography is a main ridge running east/west. The old theory says go on the north slope where it is thick and cool. To me the best place on that side of the big picture would be where the secondary finger ridges branch off to the north.... and have sun exposure on the east sides early in the day. If there is grass anywhere it will be there. Elk will bed on the west side where it will be the thickest cover around the whole area. There will be distinct bull beds on the benches of those fingers with rubs around. They'll have trails runnning right up the spines of those fingers for the times where they do want to move straight up or down. The elk will bail out to the thick side in a flash if disturbed and feed on the semi sunny side at night. Now back to the other side of the big pic..... The south slope, where the huge majority of feed is. This side will have fingers off of it as well. If they run at the right angle with turns in them... there will be shady holes on the NW sides of these fingers. I guess you could say these are the north slopes of the south side if that makes sense. Takes these areas and factor in our elevation theory and man you have some spots worty of an X or 2. There will be trails at a few high elevations that connect the very tops of seeps. the spots where the wallows ost likely occur. Also spots with water and just enough shade from the south sun to grow some lush green grass late after the sun has burned it off elsewhere.

A satellite image is good for a real view of where there is timber on the map. But for this blind scouting I use a regular topo. Interestingly... there are ALWAYS flats.. benches that run this elevation connecting the dots or Xs. You can't see those well enough on Google Earth. Funny but I've leared alot about geography from chasing elk. About what to expect around the next bend in a given area at a certain elevation. Also about what kinds of feed grows where. I think I see a whole other image than alot of people when I look at a topo map. I'm pretty sure those are the things the elk see too because it's intertwined with their instinct for survival. A place to eat, a place to sleep, and a place to escape when the need arises, for each particular time of year. If I want to live on elk, which I do, seeing the world as they do is a part of my instincts for survival as well!

This is pretty good stuff here. I can go into new areas blind and get on the elk using this theory. Keep in mind... alot of the time getting to that spot is tough. You should expect it to be. If it's too easy to get too I'd say just find somewhere else that fits the criteria that's all but a hair more remote. Not necessarily MILES more just a little for starters.

[Swede]

As they say you are spot on Indian Summer.
When it comes to scouting for good tree stand locations, I don't care what the elevation is. As mentioned a lot of times the best places are 2/3-3/4 up on the side of the mountain, but not near always. Also bedding areas and watering spots are not at the same place. Sometimes the available water is near the bottom of a slope. I don't pay particular attention to the slope aspect. I try to find a good spring in or adjacent to good cover. I then scout it out on the ground. It is the evidence I see in the field that determines whether or not a stand goes in. I look at trails, rubs in the vicinity, and I check out nearby bedding places. If a spot is getting hammered by elk, why would I care what elevation it is at, or what the aspect is. I actually prefer finding a spot that has one bull coming in on a regular basis. Occasionally I find a spot like that, but not nearly often enough. Whether you tree stand hunt or call or whatever, go with the evidence on the ground.

[easeup]

you guys area gold mine of the real stuff for sure.....
for IS, some of your comments above about the south facing slopes and greater feed; north faces less feed......

this is not what we see so much in the southern rockies. Are most of your experiences from MT and the northern country?
this is just inquiry only, so that I can further understand the whole concept of finding elk in new country.

I wanted to add that down in NM and CO way, many of the southern slopes are parched from the heat and there is little there by way of cover and feed and it is sure too hot to be hunting there when the sun is up. In the cold of winter those south faces are good. anyway I was thinking maybe the old rule of hunt the north faces may have more validity there.

thanks

[BrentLaBere]

Wow, thanks everyone for some detailed responses. Indian Summer, you really painted a picture for me and I really appreciate it.
I have been going over google earth, acme mapper, topo maps, bing maps, ect.....ect.. and keep changing spots because I really cant make up my mind.
Others have said before (and I believe this to be true as well) that you need to put boot leather to a spot to truly understand that. Studying maps is something that doesn't just come to you I imagine. Big first steps is doing just this though, and I am trying to pick spots to scout for this summer before the season. I may only get 2 maybe 3 days to do a run through with my gear in an area. IS, you brought up a point of spots easy to get to. This has been a concern of mine as well with the areas I am looking at. I often find myself asking what is an easy/hard place to get to? Where are people willing to go in this area? I don't know if there are "generalization" for this but I have heard before of, well, lets say a mile at minimum. And that is where I have kind of put a radius at trail heads to start. Even while reading all of this I was rotating google earth around of the area I have been pre-scouting in my head , yeah I look at it that much haha. And started to go back to an area I once considered to be one "drainage" I would like to check out.
Great Post guys.

[Mikeha33]

Indian Summer, that was an awesome quick lesson.

Ive been scanning my topo's and and our satellite imagery maps, and info like that really helps a greenhorn like me a ton. Just looking this morning on Google Earth where we are headed, I feel even better about our locations being productive, and fairly easily accessible, (after a long hike in).

One thought I have, and easeup mentioned it, was in CO, with the heat and drought we have been experiencing, would the attack plan need to change? Say, to the North side of a slope, with a significant drainage flowing down in elevation towards the East, especially in Sept, when temps could still be fairly warm? If there was a timbered, benched, finger coming off of a North facing slope, it seems to me that it would stay cooler and if it had a drainage flowing East, it seems it would be a great feeding/staging area for cows and calves, and even if it was not traditional hunting, its apparent that the cows will take their young to the best available spots, bringing the bulls in also.

I guess the first question would be, has the drought affected drainages and moist areas in SW CO? If so, is my thought process warranted, or am I completely lost, Lol???

[Indian Summer]

No doubt I should mention that where i hunt in Montana water is everywhere. In Wyoming not so much but enough that the elk can cross it here or there and there's no real "watering hole" to be putting any amount of your chips on. That said I can relate to the comment about lower country being parched. Even the grass that is there has less nutrients than the stuff that, even though it may also be parched... stayed green until August up high because of cooler temps.

As far as distance from roads.... a mile is a really good place to start hunting. It's not necessarily that you can't get into elk closer to the road... but they won't be "user friendly" elk. They'll be the ones that seem to know the Playbook better than you do. Just the fact that they can see and hear vehicles makes them tough to hunt and quick to relocate if disturbed the slightest bit. Might as well just put at least 1 major ridge between you and the road noise..... good enough. Plenty good enough. I can honestly say that when I'm 4 or 6 miles in half of my hunting is back toward the road. I've killed bulls in sight of the truck but.... I'd been one step behind them for days or weeks and we just ended up there. I doubt I would have actually killed them had I not known where they came from and where their next move was likely to be. A road hunter may think that looked easy but they would not have been able to pull it off in my opinion. Just the fact the the road hunter rumbled his rig up the road in the first place changes everything.

One more thing on that subject: Don't just think miles from the road. Think elevation. Anyone can follow a ridgeline or creek bottom trail for countless miles. Even carry all their gear there. But they won't hang a left or right and gain 1000 or 1500 feet of elevation so easily.

We talked about elk being down low. I think hunters are way more likely to hump up a hill looking for elk. They can see more from up there and always know it's downhill to the truck. It's a good and common plan: Hike up empty and pack quarters downhill. This is a comforting thought if you plan to have an elk strapped to your back. I've stopped along both roads and trails and glassed or listened to elk with other people who were looking down at elk saying things like "If a guy killed one down there he'd have to eat it on the spot" Then they drive or walk away. Nobody seems to eager to drop 2000 feet to carry a 900 pound bull back up or worse... take the 90% chance that they'll walk back up empty handed. It's easier to leave empty handed downhill too right!

There are defintely holes right next to roads, big & little holes, where there are elk listening to cars and even voices and nobody knows they are there. Some people will notice tracks on the road and think it was a random thing. The same holds true for back country. If a hunter is out hunting, busts butt up up up some big hill away from the vehicle or camp and then sees and elk way over on the next ridge he may think twice about giving up all his elevation, then gaining more to kill elk and set himself up for some serious self abuse or worse yet... spoiled meat if a difficult tracking job is required before taking care of cooling. The decision to turn back or wait until tomorrow can often depend on things like what time of day it is or the weather too. But from where we originate we all have a limit to what we can hunt every day. I usually have some spooky honey hole that's so hard to get to that I know I have to hunt it early in the hunt and I'll likely only go there for 2 days and then retreat to a more feasible plan I can carry out the rest of the week. I've looked at guys who were a tad more insane (or just didn't know any better) than me and said "NO! we cannot go after that bull right here right now" Even an elknut must know the point of no return. If the further/tough access spot is that worthwhile then it's time to start thinking about a camp site from where I can access it more reasonably on a regular basis. See the "Stash some Cache" thread. lol

But all in all throughout elk country I will look for the highest water I can find. I know mountains that are pretty dry up high with plenty of water down low. But there are 2 high water sources. Interestingly they come out of the ground like a firehose.... flow for a hundred yards... and then go back underground. People coming from below may think that they are at the highest water because you can't follow it up to the true top. Miss the elevation by 50 feet and you'd never know they were above or below you. Gold mines for sure and you can't begin to count the tracks there. Elk, deer, bear, lions, grouse. There will also be green grass there. Maybe not massive amounts where an entire herd would feed on a regular basis, but enough for a bull to munch on while he's having a drink at happy hour after bedding all day.

Here's a good repeatable scenario: Go in a bottom trail. Eventually you'll pass a fair sized canyon on one side or the other, maybe with a creek intersecting the main bottom. Keep hiking past that. Once you've gone about a mile or two and come to another substantial bottom intersection, bail off of the trail and now put the elevation barrier between you and other people using the trail or gated road. Depending on how far it is up there to good hunting you might actually camp along the main trail and head up "your" hole each morning. Maybe 1 or two guys up the right side and the other party of 1 or 2 up the left side. It's always downhill to camp so you can't get lost and you'll be able to count on water in camp as well. The elk are used to a bit of activity in the bottom so your camp won't be a major disturbance to them. Hike that little tributary creek to the tippy top and guess what you'll find? One of my Xs next to a pile of bones!

[Swede]

"User friendly elk", sounds interesting. We do not have any thing like that where I hunt. There are far too many roads and too many hunters in the area. That is why calling where I hunt has to be done differently than where others go. It is a good reason why it is so important to get to know your hunting grounds. Knowing your area is not just going out in the summer and locating places that look like hot spots. Knowing the area also involves getting to know the hunting pressure there and how the elk are going to react, and when.

[mtnmutt]

10,500 - 11,000 ft bench 1.0-3 miles from road in Wilderness area (no roads). It is a long bench with steep nasty stuff above and below. Ridge above is 12,000+ ft and has elk just below the East side at 11,000-11,700ft, but that is where most of the hunters go to bugle. Therefore, I stay below the ridge on the West side at a lower elevation with less hunters. I have never seen another hunter yet in >0.5 mile on the West side of ridge and I see elk.

[cnelk]

I would like to remind everyone that elk hunting isn't all that difficult.
Sure, there are a few times when it really sucks, but in the main stream of hunting these animals, it is not very scientific.

I approach it like this:
Set up camp
Find elk
Hunt elk

Elevation doesn't matter
Full moon doesn't matter
First week or last week doesn't matter


What matters is to be in the woods where the elk are

[FemoralArchery]

Never paid much attention to where they were elevation wise.

Where we hunt, we may be as high as 7,400 ft and as low as 2,000 ft in any 2 day period within an 8 mile area. We can run into elk at literally any elevation in that area.

Mostly they just are where ever they're at.

[Indian Summer]

"What matters is to be in the woods where the elk are"

"Mostly they just are where ever they're at."

Yep... but where is that, mostly?

I think our readers are hoping for a little more to go on than that. Maybe it's not what we'd call scientific but there are biological reasons why they are were they are. . There's also the 6th sense that leads you there. I know there are always elk lower than me but not the majority and not the biggest bulls. Also not the most cooperative that's for sure. The cows might lure a bull or two down low where for biological reasons they are raising their calves.

I've killed bulls and cows low and also close to roads. But those are all or nothing hunts. If I don't kill them usually there is no plan B. If I get busted in the high country I can top the next rise and it's a whole new ball game. I've had hot action from over 10 bugling bulls in a single day up there. That just doesn't happen everywhere.

[FemoralArchery]

I think our readers are hoping for a little more to go on than that.

Aren't we readers also?

This theory may be true where you have big expanses of timber or very large areas of similar cover. Then you may pick an area within the cover where the elk may be based on elevation.

Where I hunt, there are several different types of cover; timber, buck brush, sage brush, open grass hillsides and all kinds of nasty thorn brush thickets. The elk may be anywhere. One day they will be bedded in the brush, the next they will be out in the open. Another day, the same bunch may be a mile away in some thick timber.

For us, there are no large (1 mile+) expanses of any cover continuously, therefor there is no formula we can use to determine where in the cover they will be. We have to find them. Mostly we spot them from a distance of 1/2 - 1 1/2 miles away then make our move. Like most elk, they are out in the mornings and evening, so they are findable (don't think thats a word) but we can usually predict where the elk will be based on where we saw them the day before. It seems to have little to do with a specific elevation or a specific cover, as they seem to be constantly changing their game. Those are just my observations in my area.

[Indian Summer]

"Aren't we readers also?"

Absolutely. Right now though I guess we're writers. We're also hunters with a bit more hands on experience than some of the first timers right. We can always say they are where you find them. But my guess is that they hope to gain more info than generalizations. Things to think about when things are a little tough out there come fall. Is there a common thread to finding the elk where you hunt. Maybe depending on some factors like weather etc?

We talk about calling and different set-ups & scenarios all the time. None of them are much help if we can't find the dang things in the first place. I for one always have an idea where to look, and look next. If the questions is as it was here: what elevation? Like Phantom I definitely have some answers. They aren't mostly low. They aren't mostly on top either. That much I know for a fact. Obviously there are exceptions for various reasons but for the most part the above theories hold plenty of water.

It sounds llike you hunt a user friendly area with enough open spots to find them by sight. Tell us more about your methods or at least where you look first and why, I'd be glad to listen. Always learning... though I do ok at stumbling into a few here and there.

[easeup]

"We talk about calling and different set-ups & scenarios all the time. None of them are much help if we can't find the dang things in the first place."

that aint no lie.
I have always said that is the #1 task for the elk hunter. It appears to be doubly tough for the NR hunter .

carry on gentlemen.....

[FemoralArchery]

My area is pretty user friendly, right until you get after the elk.

Why do we hunt where we do? Because my dad and his buddy have been hunting the area for more than 30 years each. We find the elk based on experience first and foremost. But like I said, every day they may or may not be in a different area. When we get there each year to hunt, we have to find them. We have a pattern, for lack of a better term, that we glass until we find them. First we check this open hillside, then this brushy draw, another open hillside in another drainage until we find them. Once we find them, we will have an idea where they will be the next morning or evening. They usually don't stray too far day to day. Sometimes we leave an area and won't be back for 3 or 4 days, then we have to find them again.

It also helps when they are bugling, obviously. With wide open canyons, its easier to hear them bugle from far away, sometimes more than a mile away. If they were all timbered up, I think you'd have to get alot closer before you could hear them talking.

Alot of times, the biggest bulls will be out in the open, in the hardest to get to areas. If we see a bull worth going after, we do it. It likely takes the majority of the day, and when you miss an opportunity, you go back to camp and think about what you did and what you could do better. Its tough hunting, but thats where the big boys roam. When I say it takes all day, the reason is that we often have to drop 1,000 to 2,000 feet and then up the other side part way to get where they are bedded in some little brush patch thats no bigger than a Walmart. It makes for a long day.

There are some timbered hillsides where we hunt, but I've never really found a correlation between elevation and where they are from year to year. There is timber, in various draws and drainages covering a few thousand feet of elevation. They have bedding areas and travel routes at all elevations. We find elk a few hundred feet from the highest point in the unit, and we find elk at the furthest edge of the unit which is a few miles away, and more than 5,000 feet lower, in the same day. With our broken cover type of terrain, I think they stay where they are in close proximity to the things they need: cover, food, water.

I wish we had weather to speak of. In the last four years, hunting the entire month long season between all of us (meaning someone is always in camp) there has been one day of rain, and one day of gale force winds and snow. And they were in different years. Its hot and dry, usually in 80s and 90s to start the season, and by the end its in the 70s and 80s. I see guys hunting on TV in the rain and snow and I am extremely jealous.

I wish I could share pictures, but that would lead to certain death due to the contract I signed in my blood many years ago...

[wideangle]

Yep the OTC unit in CO we hunt elk are reliably at about 11,500 feet in the same drainages and general thickly wooded areas.