Cold Calling: Minimum Distance between 2 setups?

[mtnmutt]

After a post by Indian Summer on NW finger ridges, I examined my primary area where I plan to scout for cold calling setups. It turns out the area is a perfect example of what he described for NW finger ridges with a nice pocket (10,500-11,000 ft) between 2 with a small creek to keep it cooler. There may not be many cold calling setup places based on the picture examples elknut posted on one thread, but I plan to try to find them when I go scouting. I have already seen the elk in this area in multiple years.

The area is 1.5-3 miles from the road and most hunters won't walk in there because they mistakenly think it is all thick dense forest. They will be up higher on the 12K ridge above timberline bugling. Mostly 1-3 miles away.

While out scouting, I need to know what is the minimum distances you would do between 2 different cold calling setups? 1/4 mile?

If I remember correctly, you generally need to be within 150-200 yards of the elk to get them to even consider coming to your calling? Need a correction here if I am wrong.

For my cold calling (solo:call and move), I tend to stay 30-60 minutes depending on time of day and what I see and hear. Late morning, I find myself more likely to move sooner.

I plan to do ambush for first thing in the morning because I know a route they take from feeding to bedding. I will do ambush again midday when elk may get up to drink water from the creek. In between these times, I will try cold calling. If this sounds like a bad idea, please let me know.

I can't hear elk call back to me due to my hearing loss, so I am trying to work with what I know I can do and increase my chances.

[Swede]

Since you cannot hear the elk bugle back, I would do cold calling a little different than most. I would not use location bugles. I would use a call sequence that would be intended to bring in a curious bull, or a call that make him think he will find a hot cow. The idea of coarse, is that since you cannot hear the elk bugle, you will not go to them. With your situation, I would not use a call and move routine either. If a bull comes to you, he can probably spot you before you will see him. He has all of the advantage. Set up and stay put. I have good hearing, but poor vision, but it has forced me to do the same thing I believe you need to do. I can just picture us hunting as a team. lol Anyway I like to set up and give out a short bugle, then rake a tree or log, then move a few yards and wait. I wait an hour or a little longer before I move, but there is no rule to follow. I have just been busted too many time when I got up too soon. If you sit for a full hour nothing will come, but if you get up to leave after waiting only 1/2 hour, you will have one just about to show. I am not sure how or why it works that way, it just does. As far as how far to go between set ups; I try to go far enough that my call is reaching into all new territory. Sometimes that is just a matter of crossing over a ridge. Sometimes it means hiking about a half mile, then searching a good location to call from, and then to wait.
I too like waiting over water in the afternoon and evening. I would recommend waiting near a good bedding area. If you plan to hunt at a stream, then go to the head or very near if possible. I like quiet water in a secluded spot. If possible, find a location the elk are coming to frequently, for your ambush. Check for actively used trails, rubs, and feces. Elk love to forage on riparian vegetation, so you can check that too. Do not go with a random spot along a stream. You want the odds all in your favor. Wind is critical on a ground ambush. I usually set up on the opposite side of the stream from where I expect to see elk.

[cnelk]

mtnmutt
I think it may depend on how loud you are calling to determine distance between setups.
I have a 'circuit' that I use. Most calls are 300-400 yds apart others are ~1/2 mile.
There are time I really hammer on my cow calls and sometimes I just use soft lost calf calls.

In new areas, I frequently check my GPS from spot to spot so I know how far I am from the last spot.
I will ALWAYS try to call by .2 of a mile from the last spot

I would rather call and bring the elk to me than bump them....

A 20 min setup is about my average.
I have noticed that elk seem to respond to calling in 3's
3 in - 6 min - 9 min - 12 min - 15 min - 18 min ... 21 min Im getting ready to move if no action

[Swede]

I think Cnelk makes a very good point. A lot depends on your area and the elk you are working. I see a lot of the same things B. does, there are some differences too.

[CrazyElkHunter]

That's a hard one to give a good answer to because every area, terrain, elk population, hunter pressure will affect calling success. I just use common sense and gutt feelings of when to move and how far. Sometimes just a 100yds can make a stubborn quiet bull scream or come in from the move. A ridge he will hear you from a very long distance and you have to stay in your set up longer. From a bench on the side of a hill in thick timber, he's going to have to be closer or in the drainage below you. Set the stage, get a feel for the set up, use good judgement, keep the scent in your favor, plan your next set up, feel the distance needed. Repeat! If you know the area very well, chances are you will already know what to do, where and when to move knowing the elk pattern.

[mtnmutt]

Thank you both. Good plans. It appears that I should mix it up a little when something isn't paying off and pay attention to the terrain for the distance between setups.

Swede, I had a blind friend (John passed away) and our friends thought it was hoot that we were hanging around the small mountain town. John played his guitar in the bars and I would attempt to go listen to him play with my hearing loss. His bass player (modest guy) refused to crank up his volume for me to hear the bass. Maybe I will run into an elk that is not modest and cranks up the volume.

I started on this adventure into elk hunting as the caller for a friend. One time, I tried a really loud whiny cow. She said an elk from 1/2 mile bugled back. 30+ minutes later, there was an elk circling to catch our scent.

Lately, I have been doing mostly soft cow mews because I thought maybe I was too loud or overdoing it. Since I have both bull and cow tags, I am fine with getting a cow. I will be practicing lost calf sounds.

I noticed on another thread how terrain mattered a bit on how elk calls travel in volume. In thick cover, the sound won't carry as much.

When I scout, I will look for trails crossing the creek for the midday ambush. The creek starts above timberline, so I don't think the head of the creek is a good place since it is in the open.

Scouting will be fun this year after reading all these great threads. I have a better plan than wandering aimlessly around the woods.

[ElkNut1]

Stay & work within your strengths! One of your strengths is your eyesight, use it to its full potential. Focus your setups in destination areas or their travels to these destination areas, I would not wander beyond these things & setup randomly just anywhere in hopes of drawing elk to where they have no intention of going too outside of your light calling. When elk are heading to these destination areas they use trails they do not just come bouncing in from anywhere. So setup with these trails in mind where wind direction favors you on their entrance, this way your hearing isn't as important as your eyesight because elk will stay on these trails. Notice any other trails that may finger into the one your on because they could slip in on any of those as well.

Stay off of the trails when heading to your pre-planned setup, elk could possibly smell your travels in & out with extended use.

If at all possible setup a trail camera here & there so you can get some info of its use & times of its use. I like setting a camera up starting in Aug. & seeing what trails are getting the most use. If not certain where they are going too then I walk them out to see where they are going? This can help as to the times it's being used.

ElkNut1

[Indian Summer]

Patricia you know how bad my hearing is. Even though I've learned to adapt I still dream of what it would be like to be outside the bubble and be able to hear elk like others.

Paul is on the money when he said use what you have. Like me I'm sure you are very good at noticing movement through the cover. So... when you are moving you are hunting. I'd agree with Paul on staying off of trails when possible. it's hard to get out of the way fast enough to set up on elk that are coming right at you. Plus... you and I don't know they are coming until we see them and it's likely too late by then. Yes you'll have to stomp the place up a bit to learn the travel routes. You can't stay off to 1 side of a trail if you don't know where it runs so that's part of the learning process. Use that eyesight to become like any other predator that still hunts. We are destined to be some of the best still hunters out there!

We know there are bugles we don't hear. Sometimes they are far. Sometimes they are close but over the top of a rise and it just muffles the frequencies that we can hear. Either way we have to take each set up seriously and think positive. I start with low volume so I don't blow the doors off of anything that might be close. Follow that with a long period of quiet and waiting. Then I'll go to a locator bugle and hope I have my ear pointed in the right direction to hear it. But I visualize a bull that did hear me and respond from the furthest distance I could expect to get a response AND convince him to get out of bed and see who's on my turf. Then I'll go through a call sequence which includes lowering the volume as time goes by since now he is close....

I like your long waits. I always tell myself nature has no schedule and always moves way slower than the pace that humans go about their daily business. We have done enough homework, or just have found the place to call home so we cannot ask, or tell ourselves that while we're burning a precious hour nothing can even hear us. Even the folks who can hear ask themselves the same question right. But eventually we all come to the point where it's time to roll. When that time comes know where you will travel. Move like the shadows with confidence. How far, like we've said depends on all those factors. I just look around and say.. "nothing beyond that ridge over there could have gotten wind of that last setup" and that's where I head.

It sounds like you have faith iin your spot and rightly so. I'm glad to hear there are other hunters but you know where they are. Perfect. I think it's just a mattter of time until you find yourself in the right place at the right time. That bench... can you describe it in more detail... how wide is it? How long? Coordinates? hee hee Is it bisected by some draws? Big ones/small ones? Better yet... are there any bottlenecks created by narrow spots in the bench.. maybe a rockslide? You have the spot. Now find the spot(s) on the spot. The places where, if the elk do cooperate, the chances of it becoming a shot opportunity are a little better than some other spots where that is more by chance. You'll have the confidence to spend time there. Those places are the dots to connect on your daily milk run. Some days you'll have time to explore and that's fine and natural... and part of the fun. But when you do have an idea of the kind of places you're looking to add to your milk run. The loop the elk make can take weeks & be big so eventually you'll have a pretty big set of dots to connect. Hopefully more than you can cover in a day or 2 or 3. If there's just no fresh sign on one end of the milk run... I will travel quicker until I do see a reason to slow down and work it properly. I might even use a game trail or two and that's ok. Getting busted sucks but it's a part of life. We cant sneak like the shadows everywhere we go and cover the amount of elk country sometimes necessary to be into elk. Likewise there will always be places you just can't get to by first light so you'll be hunting your way there during the day. Just travel smart when you can that's all.

The important thing is instincts. That and thought processes. You have those covered. I have all the faith in the world this could be your year. I for one cannot wait until you get up that mountain this fall. I hope one day you'll buy that point in Wyoming and I'll send you somewhere where you can see elk first and then get to use those well honed instincts to close the deal. Heaven on earth for people like us who were gifted with limitations that force us to learn methods that better suit us.

[mtnmutt]

Thanks Paul.

I was warned about trail cameras in this area getting stolen, so I am not sure about trail cameras. I will give it some thought if I am willing to lose it.

Last year when I went deeper in (2 miles), I found well used bedding areas. Slipping in unnoticed will be tricky because of noise. The wind direction is good in the morning. Unless there are rocks to step on, I don't do very well staying silent.

In the past, I have been too fast to walk through the woods. During scouting, I will practice pausing to scan the woods and take better notes on wind direction/time of day.

Occasionally, I come across Y trails. I find those to be funnel spots for elk travel and take more notice of them especially if they head toward feed or water.

This forum has given me a good education. I have a larger toolbox for this season than past seasons.

[mtnmutt]

Thank you Joe! More great advice.

I am good at patience. I don't get bored sitting one place for one hour. Lots to see in the forest just sitting still.

Last summer, Paul told me to try ambush. I never did even though I knew one spot that would be good for it. Last year, I was having an off year with family stuff and I did not really get my head in the game last September. Summer scouting plans were messed up by wildfires. This year, I have more faith in the information I have gathered so far. Scouting will add more to the list of plans for September. I will get to hunt more days this year than 2012.

The bench is 1.5 mile long and at most 1/4 mile wide. I can get to the start of the bench before first light and before legal hunting time, but not to the end of it. The start of the bench has a spot for ambush because the elk won't go through the meadow. They go around it. I already saw elk use the spot.

Bench starts out about 0.2 mile wide with a very large meadow (1/2 mile from road) and then narrows to the place that had those 2 NW finger ridges just below the North/South running 12K ridge. At the base of the NW finger ridges, are multiple meadows of different sizes medium to small with a creek. This creek was still flowing last year during the drought. The multiple finger ridges have draws between them.

The large meadow 1/2 mile from road at start of bench is wet in a normal year. Due to last year's drought, it was all dried up. The creek there was also dry. Drought seemed to push the elk further down the bench were the other creek was still flowing.

At the end of the bench, I found 5 bedding circles in the grass between 2 meadows. Around the meadows I found bedding areas here and there. The wet grass in the area must keep the elk cool. 2 years ago, I heard drilling noise closer to opening day ML. I think someone was setting up a treestand but I never knew the exact location. I wasn't happy they were making all that noise during archery, but it is public land.

Between the Bench and the 12K ridge to the East, is dark steep nasty stuff. The stuff below to the West is also nasty in spots. I know locals that hunt down below the bench, SW from the bench. They hike up from a road down there, but they don't go to far in before they score.

So if I buy a WY tag, you'll take me to some hellhole right?

[Indian Summer]

LOL.. I hope you're not disappointed if it's not too hellish. And remember... I could take you or just send you. I know you're a solo hunter so I would hate to see you pass because it wasn't your style. I wouldn't hunt in country that seemed to enjoy seeing me struggle. As I evolve as an elk hunter I gravitate to spots that are more user friendly. I guess that's the 1 advantage of being a non-resdent hunter. Instead of just hunting close to home... I decide where I want to call home. Like I said for me that means places where I can locate animals by sight. If they are in the timber it's hopefully not such a big stand that I can't hear them way out there. If they bugle in the patch of timber I'm in in my Wyoming spot... I'll probably hear them! How nice is that to know huh. Plus those bulls seem to enjoy listening to themselves bugle as much as I do.. if that is possible! In the wide open stuff I can also hear them further away. I can't wear my hearing aids when I'm hiking around sweating. I'll sit down to glass open and put the hearing aids in & crank them up. Wow!

In addition to that I probably wouldn't call a place home if it was kind of featureless as far as cover and terrain. I like a mix of timber, various sized meadows, and rocky stuff. Also some flats as well as some really steep stuff. All that means that the limited cover and stuff that me you and the elk consider hellish will dictate where they travel as they follow the paths of least resistence. There are bottlenecks everywhere and like you said.. they walk around stuff. It's way easier to spot the sweet spots in places like that even in fairly unfamilar country. It's definitely easier to "scout" on the topo maps and Google Earth which is a big reason I can put Xs on a map before I get there. That's why I asked about the details of the bench too. Someone might show me a map of their area and if doesn't have what I'm looking for I won't have a clue where the elk might be. Those places force us to find out the old fashioned way... a minimum of 4 years of hard intelligent hunting.

I like the sound of your spot. Except for the nasty thick stuff. lol But everywhere has that. I hope that chain saw doesn't mean someone else decided to call your spot home too. I meant to ask you about the availability of water. Sounds like you can narrow things down a bit on drier years which is nice. Unless it means they are harder to get to. If so look at the bright side... they're harder for everyone else to get to as well. But if you choose to you could probably take a note from Swede's playbook and use a treestand for a secret weapon. I've always wanted to hunt somewhere where water was scarce. Seems like a dream. You know they have to hit it every day . But if it seems too good to be true it probably is so who knows... maybe the water holes would be popular with other hunters too. Then I'd be looking for the most hard to find little spring I possibly could. Woops... I'm totally off subject now. Sorry, I have this problem.... lol The same one everyone around here has huh.....

[mtnmutt]

2nd year hunting, I took the first 9 days off to hunt the first week of the season and I tried too hard. First 5 days, spent too much time roaming and going up steep nasty stuff and wore myself out. Once I wore myself out, I found this large meadow 1/2 mile from the road and saw more elk than ever before.

As you and others said, think smarter. I took my 2nd year notes and opened up GE and found my lovely bench. The large meadow was the tipping point that led to elk heaven.

The other day you started talking about those finger ridges. I opened GE and found 2-3 of those NW finger ridges at the end of my lovely bench in Plan A area.

I am getting too old to wander brainlessly through the forest. Time to out think the elk.

My Plan B hunting area is another NW longer finger ridge above a large creek and harder to get to than Plan A area. I saw elk heading there to bed after drinking in the creek that is 2 miles from Plan A area as the crow flies. By car, it is 1 hour to get to the TH between Plan A and Plan B areas.

If not for all of you on this forum, I would be wandering the forest with no plan.

I am not likely to ever be in a treestand. I know others are trying it this year for the first time for elk. I will buy Swede's book because it is likely good information for ambush on the ground as well. However, I prefer to keep my feet on the ground.