So, you found an outfitters camp?

[otcWill]

While scouting a new unit yesterday I stumbled upon licensed outfitters camp. Not just anybody but by far the premiere guy in the area. Area around it is ripped up with fresh sign and previous years rubs. My question for you is how do you react? Hunt it? Avoid it? Truth be told it looked far too good to turn my back on completely.

[easeup]

of course you will not be welcomed but you could hunt it very carefully with respect for those who make their living there.

[Bowhunter]

You have all the right to be there. I would try to figure out where they might be hunting and the close to the road hunters. I bet if you get between them you could just wait till they send them to you.

[cnelk]

Something took you to the spot/area in the first place...

Can you determine if its an archery hunting camp? Maybe a rifle only camp?


All I know is that they wont shoot all the elk in the area...

Hunt it

[>>>---WW---->]

Here is the way it used to be in Colorado anyhow. When an outfitter has a NF hunting lease permit, it is his area and no other outfitters are supposed to be there. However, that doesn't mean that un-outfitted hunters can't use the area. It only means that you, as an individual, can't camp within X amount of feet from the outfitters campsite. You need to check with the Forest Service for clarification on this and find out what your limitations are as an individual hunter or camper. But It used to be pretty dang close.

I know when I took my first guiding job, we had a group of hunters that walked right through our camp every morning to get where they wanted to hunt. Also, we posted signs that told how close you could camp from the permited camp area.

[JGH]

Ran into this trouble just last year. We elected to divert, and go to Plan B. The issue is back on the table this year, though!

[Swede]

I would not personally camp right next to them, but would find a good camp place in the general area. I would prefer to be a mile away. Then I would mind my own business and hunt my own hunt. For the most part I would ignore them, except to show the courtesy of not interfering. I would expect them to do likewise.

[>>>---WW---->]

What Swede says. A little courtisy goes a long ways. Some outfitters can get a little testy once in awhile. That's understandable as they have to pay for their campsite and you don't. I don't think I'd ever camp right on top of them. However, if a big bull was in my sights less than 50 yard from their camp, WELLLLL! That might be a different story. LOL!

But above all be courtious and know your rights as well as the outfitters rights.

[JohnFitzgerald]

Tough call! It is public land and open for anyone so the outfitter has no claim on it. ElkNut makes his living from elk hunting and doesn't enforce sole rights to his spots.

Personally, I would hunt it but I'd also be prepaired for possible trouble. The outfitter could be nice or possibly an a-hole. If it's worth the hassel, hunt it.

Just my 2-cents.

[cnelk]

The Forest Service takes their land use agreements very seriously.
Be it grazing, outfitting, etc...

You can ask the FS where this outfitters boundaries are, which are typically ridges, creeks.

The FS will also follow up on any complaints filed by other non-paying user(s)

Let us know how it works out for you

[Migolito]

Dumb question, but...What season is open right now that an outfitter has his 'camp' already set up? Outfitters cannot leave anything within the Publics forest outside of the dates the permit stipulates. I realize outfitters do just that, some actually bury a cache of equipment in the USNF and leave it for next year. At the end of the day, outfitters have no right, legal or otherwise, to 'reserve' a hunting spot. I'm thinkin treat him just as you would want to be treated if its an active camp, but, if he left his inactive camp up on public property as a way to discourage the public from using the area should they happen upon it, I'd report it.

[buglmin]

Actually, yes, the outfitter has the right to reserve a camp spot on NF. He pays for the land use permits, and tells the FS where he will camp every year, and he has to be in that area when the FS checks on him. Its that simple. Outfitters dont just guide hunters, they also take in summer trips, fishing trips, and trail rides.
You have no idea how many hunters the outfitter runs, and Im willing to bet he will have sevral bowhunters in camp every week, plus black powder hunters, and spike camps in the area.. Heck, he could be running over 30 hunters in that area just in September and October. And if you feel like putting up with the BS of guides and other hunters, hunt it. But remember, the guides will have favorite areas, and they will be in those areas no matter if you are hunting the same areas.
Lots of changed in permits and day use permits. With day use permits, outfitters can hunt anywhere on NF now, just cant camp in one spot longer then 10 days. Thats why we have so many outfitters here around Pagosa now, and outfitters from Texas or Arkansas can now come and guide hunters as long as they are licensed in Colorado...

[Lefty]

I tend to move on. For me part of the camp is the solitude the area provides.
I have no problem setting a camp on top of where others may be hunting or have. But I would rather have it hard for anyone to say I had a camp in any particular location.

As far as hunting the same area. All too often we each mess up anothers hunt.
I knew a fellow that hunted a particular meadow every year. Great view, nice location, water came out of the ground and back in and was often used as a wallow.While it could have been anyone a guide came in and set up camp near the spring. Frustrating for the fellow, the felllow mostly stayed away from the camp except with a big snow fall he would sit by a tree 80 yards from the outfitters tent knowing the elk would be coming through.
Not for me . plenty of places to hunt
If I saw a bull move into the grove of trees surrounding the camp,and saw the outfitter or other hunters a mile away maybe I would give it a go
While legal, just not my thing
However as a past commercial trapper I often set the same farms or bridge stops of others,.sort of came with territory

[bnsafe]

personally if its public land and your not breaking any laws then hunt it. you've got as much right to be there as anybody. I wouldn't stand around an have a conversation with a guide either, I would just keep moving if they were being a jerk. public land is public land.

[dotman]

I wouldn't worry about it too much, I hunt an area around Pagosa that only has 1 outfitter and I'll talk to him before the season and he knows if I ever use him it will just be for a quick last minute pack out. He has offered up his camps for my use when he isn't booked, really nice guy. Now I never use his camps but know where all three are not because I found them but because he told me. He also runs his cows on the fs ground next to the wilderness I hunt in.

Then the outfitter that has the region next to his is just as nice and a great guy to talk to. Both have been great when I can't get out and scout for relaying how the grass and water are in the high country and how much activity they have seen.

If you know who it is call and just talk you could be suprised and if they are there when you are just show mutual respect.

[kevin_t]

It's public land and it gets complicated. You have every right to be there, but will you be welcome ? Probably not. Some of these folks pay $5k or more, and the outfitters put on a big show for them. To have a couple of mountain men come walking up and plant a tent near them sort of takes the specialness out of it for the paying customers. I have camped near outfitters (say 5 - 600 yards or so) and it wasn't worth it. He's hunted the area for 40 yrs and knows the best shooting lanes within a 1/2 mile of camp. I had been following this bull in the area for over a year. That was my primary reason for being there. I finally moved on about day 3. To many people and horses.
I also know of a licensed outfitter camp, where they stashed a ton of goods (tents, stoves etc) and it has not been used for several years. I called offering to clean it up for free, I figured it would be good training and give me an excuse to get out. I could not clean it up, because it was licensed to a ranch, and the ranch had been sold, but the new owner still held the permits and needed to give approval for it to happen. It got to be more problems than it was worth. So I can tell you where a bunch of outfitter gear resides and is stashed and becoming forest junk.

[CrazyElkHunter]

I would treat it like any other camp where I hunt. National Forest is a lot of real estate. Respect that we all have the right to be there but still use common sportsmanship in being friendly, honoring someone you knows working a bull, ground blinds, tree stands. If you feel crowded or uncomfortable, find another area. We have a outfitter that sets up a huge camp less than a 1/2 mi down the road from our camp. Nice guy that has helped me pack meat out several times and even showed me some of his hot spots. On the opposite side, I called in a guide in New Mexico several years a go with his client and he got ticked and wanted to kick my butt. He felt that entire area was his and I shouldn't be there. Use good judgment, and hope they do too.

[Trophyhill]

Personally I would find another place to hunt. I don't like people in the elkwoods as much as elk don't. Are outfitters allowed to have camps set up year 'round?

[slim9300]

If it's thick with elk come Sept., hunt it discreetly and pack a side arm. Prepare for a confrontation but hope it doesn't happen.

[flyinhunter]

From being a guide I can say that I have run into DIY hunters. I have never had a problem with them, and a little common sense go's a long way. If you want to hunt on top of another person, outfitter or not, it can be a stressful environment. Not to mention you'll know for a fact there is a lot of human sent and movement there so your chances are going to be less.

When we have had guys hunting in the drainage that an outfitter pays to hunt, the Outfitter can't do anything about it. But in my experience when we see DIY guys we like to go talk to them. They have the right to be there and if we can get them on a bull the sooner they'll leave. So we are nice, we share information. We'll even help them pack if they need it.

No one likes a coyote acting group of hunters that are sneeking around on top of you. My advice would be to call the outfitter and let them know when and where you'll be and that you hoped you wouldnt be hunting on top of eachother. He might not like it but if he has half a brain and a little common sense he'll work with you so both parties can have an enjoyable hunt. Few outfitters are the "bad guys" a lot of DIYers think they are.

[slim9300]

The Forest Service takes their land use agreements very seriously.
Be it grazing, outfitting, etc...

You can ask the FS where this outfitters boundaries are, which are typically ridges, creeks.

The FS will also follow up on any complaints filed by other non-paying user(s)

Let us know how it works out for you

Show me something that states they have the the sole use rights to hunt the FS land. Maybe I am reading what you wrote wrong?

[cnelk]

slim
I never intended to imply that the they had sole use.
Only that when a grazing allotment is on FS land, and 'John Q Public' makes a complaint against the rancher, the FS follows up on the complaint.