Any WY hunters here?

[elkflunky]

Looking for input on any WY elk hunters here. I have been looking at maps and regulations for there and it looks a bit different than what I am used to. I see a NR can not do a diy hunt on wilderness. I am looking at the grays river area. Has anyone hunted this area or any suggestions on what units to look into? Any help would be greatly appreciated and PM's welcome. Thank you!

[otcWill]

How bout the fact that nobody on the premier elk hunting site has touched this yet?! Wyo is empty during archery season! Not many hunters and plenty elk.

[elkflunky]

Sounds like a good time then!! The thing that worries me is getting into the right terrain. It looks much different than what I am used to.

[sreekers]

Grays has plenty of Hunters. Pack in though, stay away from trails and you will do fine.

[flyinhunter]

Looking for input on any WY elk hunters here. I have been looking at maps and regulations for there and it looks a bit different than what I am used to. I see a NR can not do a diy hunt on wilderness. I am looking at the grays river area. Has anyone hunted this area or any suggestions on what units to look into? Any help would be greatly appreciated and PM's welcome. Thank you!

It is true that NR cannot be in the wilderness without a guide. It's our way of preventing a CO style free-for-all AND to protect the outfitting industry. I have never hunted the Grey's so I'm not much help. I hear it's alright though.

[Z Barebow]

[/quote]

It is true that NR cannot be in the wilderness without a guide. It's our way of preventing a CO style free-for-all AND to protect the outfitting industry. I have never hunted the Grey's so I'm not much help. I hear it's alright though.[/quote]

I have researched the Greys and did end up elsewhere. In talking with the bio's, I explained that I was looking to get away from people. He offered up some other areas to look at and I ended up hunting in those general areas. But I didn't hunt the Greys because of a lack of elk.

I even have a custom "MyTopo" map of the general area I was researching, could borrow to you if you would like.

RE: Wilderness. I will try and keep it brief, but that rule sucks the big one. It has NOTHING to do with protecting the state from a CO free for all. (100% draw tags take care of that) and has EVERYTHING to do with the outfitter lobby. It is not about safety either. I can fish the same areas that I cannot hunt big game in. But it is Wyoming's rule, and it is a state's right to make these rules. No matter how transparently biased against the DIY big game hunter. I will now step off my soap box. Hunt on!

[sreekers]

As a Wy resident i think the rule is stupid and is for the outfitting lobby.

[elkflunky]

Thank you for the help! Seekers any suggestions on nonresident friendly areas?

[flyinhunter]

As a Wy resident i think the rule is stupid and is for the outfitting lobby.

As a WY resident I think the rule is good. I have personally guided and been in camps where we have run literally hundreds of hunters through. Of those hundreds I have seen a very slim margin of "hunters" that actually could have done it on their own with any margin of saftey and care of the wilderness. I'm certain a lot of guys are'nt going to like the taste of that but facts are facts.

Where we go is literally horse only areas. You could backpack it.... but you'd be crazy. So aside from what I already said, a fraction of those guys have any business being turned loose with horses and pack horses unsupervised.

We all know that everyone that reads this thinks they're the .05% exception. And they'll try it. So when the professionals and people that do this for a living start up the one trail into the thorofare, first we'll pass an over crowded trailhead full of out of state plates. Then we'll ride another 50 feet and we'll have to stop and wait for someone that has to fix a pack..... and so on and so on. We already do that with the "local" Cheyenne and Casper hunters. Then when those guys that are the exception roll a horse off a cliff because they don't know any better, and have to kill it because it broke it's leg. We ride by. And we have wrecks because there's 20 bears having dinner.

Hunting in the wilderness is but a small detail of being in the wilderness. I'm sorry if you guys don't like it. But I am 100% happy with it. And yes, it has a ton to do with the outfitters lobbing. But who cares? It keeps people out that don't need to be there and saves hundreds of DIY hunters from killing horses, getting ate by bears, and a $15,000 helicopter ride out.

[elkflunky]

Glad my post looking for help turned to this. Let me get this straight I can backpack, fish, in those federal wilderness areas but if I choose to hunt them I am breaking the law? I do believe the elk/deer do not belong to one individual in the US. Furthermore, the federal land "wilderness" areas are no more belonged to by a resident than a nonresident. I believe these principles were for the most part set up by Teddy Roosevelt. What I see in areas that I have hunted is outfitters flood prime areas with a million hunters and get pissed off when I decide to a diy hunt and stumble in "their" area. If they wanted to control the number of us "garbage" diy hunters then limit the nonresident tags so that SOME and not all outfitters can hoard these federal lands. Just my thoughts and input on my post asking for a little help. Enjoy your wilderness areas being I will never be able to, being the price of a outfitted hunt is way out of my financial league. I guess that is fair being a TON of land is designated wilderness areas.

[Canvsbk]

I hunted Wyoming last fall and will again this fall. Love it. I've seen this argument dozens of times and haven't chimed in until now. The comment about out of state plates is what irks me to no end. I won't bother to ask the obvious question but I will say this guy sounds like someone I used to work with,Everybody else is a moron.
Wyoming is a great place, love to hunt and fish it and leave my Michigan money there.

[elkflunky]

Thank you canvsbk! I would like to do the same. Just looking for a place to start is all and I get this song and dance about his greedy theories. Everyone else who reads this I am sorry for any "drama" but I could not keep my mouth shut on this one. ---sorry!!

[dotman]

Personally I think if a state puts limitations on federal land then the feds should put the same limits on everyone but of course the outfitters are the only qualified individuals in the backcountry.

[elkflunky]

Agree and thanks it is definitely an issue but once again politics falls in place and ruins things for others. Guess I should be used to it now.

[flyinhunter]

Well, drama queens and ruffeled feathers aside, I'll try again.

What 99% of my post was about was when I said, "Hunting is but a small detail of being in the wilderness"

First and foremost, perhaps I didn't articulate well the first try, My point was that where we go, you need horses. You might be able to backpack it if you are in better shape than any of my sheep hunters. If you are in fact one of the people that is in that good of shape you will be under equipt to handle the countryside. That's coming from someone who has been in that country for 2 months out of every year since 02 or 03. So you need horses or mules and when you understand that, (find places like Open Creek, Mountain Creek, Bruin Creek, Moose Boggs, Yellow Creek, Pass Creek on your maps) it isnt much of a streach for someone to expect a person renting/leasing/owning stock to know how to use those animals safely and properly.

Secondly, The VAST majority of "garbage hunters"<-----Your words not mine.... have out of state plates, road hunt. Tresspass and cut fences. Get out of your pick-up and know where you are but know your limits and don't get in too deep, was the point. It was in no way an acuization towards anyone here. I meant it as a general comment. And I apologize for profiling out of state DIY guys. I'd be crazy to bash every out of stater, due to them I've had a good job.

Going back to the livestock deal. There are people that make a living doing this stuff. They do it all fall. They own and train their livestock all year. Do you? I could care less if you are from Pakastan, either you are doing it safely and correctly or you arent. Guys, sorry if that brings offense. All these things I'm talking about and we haven't even got to the hunting part yet. I'm just pointing out the fact that in this one little area where I work, you need to have your ducks in a row. It's foolish to think otherwise.

Now, I will agree that you have every bit as much right to be there as me. And as a Guide (not an outfitter) I could care less. The truth is that I have been involved with helping get resident hunters out of there. Guys that didn't have a clue, their horses got away was one, their horses quit was another, Bears ran their stock off. You think I'm acting like everyone else is an "moron" but you need to remember 2 things- I have some strong opinions but they've been developed honestly, and that I really don't automaticlly assume anything about anyone. When you are back there you help out because that's the human thing to do. No matter my opinion about who should or shouldn't be there doesnt much matter when someone is in need of help. Lord knows, I've had my fair share of wrecks.

Returning to the fuss, Do I like the law? Yes. Do I think it works for everyone? Not for a second. But the industry has fed me and my family for a long time. If we open up to every Tom, Dick and Harry we'll be out of a job. The trails would be worse eroded and there would be many other problems like vandlism of the old trapper cabins etc. No law is perfect, this one included but it serves a greater purpose. If you want in that bad, PM me and maybe I can help out as I no longer plan to guide much. I just want to hunt for myself.

Once again, sorry to make the thread drift so far and for getting everyones panties in a bunch but you guys didn't understand where I'm coming from. If you did you would have agreed with me. And I'll stand by that all day.

[elkflunky]

I am not even going to respond to that but thanks for your input.

[Canvsbk]

Pm sent to flunky...

[JGH]

I don't think I've ever seen someone try to defend that law. Must be because there isn't much defense for it.

Simple protectionism. Where I hunted wilderness in WY last year, I saw quite a few hikers -- all from out of state, some even from other countries. None were breaking the law, of course, because they weren't "taking food off the table" of outfitters. It doesn't have anything to do with safety.

By the way, I have my own stock, but if I hunt the same place next year, I'll likely go without. We'll ride in there in a couple weeks and see how the winter was, and probably camp. Any non-residents could do that as well, of course, just not while hunting.

As to the original question, I don't have much useful to add other than a wish for good luck. WY is a big place and there are plenty of non-wilderness options.

[dotman]

Well sounds like good old liberal thinking made that law, hey people you need protecting so you can't hunt here but we also create an easy job market for the few that pay us a fee and pass a test.

Sorry but most DIY type guys never use guides/outfitters and I think it is funny that my experience with horses and mountain hunting, not including being raised on a ranch in MT isn't as good enough as that guy who grew up in Sheridan WY golfing and mowing yards that now sits in a cube in an office building..

[flyinhunter]

Well sounds like good old liberal thinking made that law, hey people you need protecting so you can't hunt here but we also create an easy job market for the few that pay us a fee and pass a test.

Sorry but most DIY type guys never use guides/outfitters and I think it is funny that my experience with horses and mountain hunting, not including being raised on a ranch in MT isn't as good enough as that guy who grew up in Sheridan WY golfing and mowing yards that now sits in a cube in an office building..

I would say its a good old cowboy law that protects the second largest econimic industry in my town. I would even say that we agree in a lot of ways but when you view the rule with emotion instead of with a clear understanding of facts and local issues you will miss the mark. ...And we will just go round and round about this.

Your argument is, I'm qualified and I should be able to do this. And you are right. But the bigger issue, the one you are missing is that this law does not take guys like you into account. For the third time, it is not fair to guys like you. I am not commenting on your qualifications. I'm sure you'd be fine. If you read what I posted you will find that I already addressed the issue of "Locals" from Cheyenne and what not. Understand that you are in the minority and are getting the short end of the stick on this particular law. By-in-large, it is my OPINION that it's better to screw a few of you for the larger goal of protecting this one spot from guys that shouldnt be there.

Normally I would be on the band wagon that says Darwin will sort them out. But due to other factors, such as the trail (how tight, steep and dangerous it is etc.) etc. etc. etc. I am not. There are hundreds of variables that I lack the typing skills to articulate on here that have brought me to this conclusion.

Understand that I have no ill will towards the DIY crowd. Afterall, I am one of you. I do stand by my OPINION for this one spot though. We can agree to disagree. I just hope you all realize that in having this opinion about this one spot should not be misinterpreated into you all thinking I am anti DIY, or anti OoS or any of that. ...this one spot guys... one spot... my opinion.

[elkflunky]

Sounds more like outfitter greed to me. Always screw the other guy over logic. More for me!!!! Like I said it is safe during fishing season to walk those highly dangerous trails that probably go up hill both ways and several rock climbers fall from every year. For gods sake if the fall doesn't kill them the 700 or so mean bears will for sure get them diy HUNTERS!! I just don't understand how the fisherman and backpackers are so much more experienced then us diy hunters. Hell I don't know about anyone else here but is it not normal to get drunk at the state line and start shooting road signs and defacing the country side. I am glad there are a bunch of outfitters out there that more or less might as well just post the property as their own little hunting club. This is the same logic as taking guns away from everyone due to a few idiots that scar the land.

[flyinhunter]

Sounds more like outfitter greed to me. Always screw the other guy over logic. More for me!!!! Like I said it is safe during fishing season to walk those highly dangerous trails that probably go up hill both ways and several rock climbers fall from every year. For gods sake if the fall doesn't kill them the 700 or so mean bears will for sure get them diy HUNTERS!! I just don't understand how the fisherman and backpackers are so much more experienced then us diy hunters. Hell I don't know about anyone else here but is it not normal to get drunk at the state line and start shooting road signs and defacing the country side. I am glad there are a bunch of outfitters out there that more or less might as well just post the property as their own little hunting club. This is the same logic as taking guns away from everyone due to a few idiots that scar the land.

Well, the only thing I have to say to that is when you dilute a very valid argument with nonsense like, " walk those highly dangerous trails that probably go up hill both ways and several rock climbers fall from every year. For gods sake if the fall doesn't kill them the 700 or so mean bears will for sure get them diy HUNTERS!!" among other drama and stereotype statments I can't help you much. There is a difference in what I said, which is truth and the sytire you posted.

I will defend my opinion just like you are expected to defend yours. What I don't like is feeling like I need to defend outfitters against the ubsurd gibberish you just posted. I made a few comments about OoS hunters that were based in factual information. While I did it I went out of my way to conceed that not all are like that. I don't think it's out of line to expect the same from you. You are correct that a few outfitters are like that, maybe the same % as OoS guys that screw up? I could tell you stories about fist fights, 30 miles from a road when I've run into outfitters like that. I can tell you about bad ones that run 90 hunters/yr. Likewise, I could point out the ones who are true stewards of the land. That manage a heard better than their pocket books. The problem is you don't want to hear that because it's different than your preconceeved notions. I'm sure I like the bad ones far less than you guys do. But you don't want to see that. You want to whine about someone elses opinion that has years and years of experience in one area that you have probably never seen. No sense listening to someone that has been there and experienced it, huh?

I didn't come on here to start an argument where we all get out our rulers and measure to see whos bigger. You guys obviously are seriously biased towards an outfitted hunt. I'm sincerely sorry that I made you mad by pointing out the elephant in the room, that 98% of you don't have the means to get into and out of this ONE particular spot.... I would bet that an extreeme few of you even know that in order to get to that spot you have to ride/walk through miles of forest (up hill both ways )... where elk happen to live... where you can hunt. Which begs the question? Why ride by elk? We had to because Outfitters have a permit to run a commercial operation out of one specific geographic location.

[elkflunky]

First of all your the one that opened this can of worms. Second I m not here to argue but I will defend the rights of fellow hunters and what you think is right is as far as I am concerned a bunch of political garbage. I do have one question for you though and that is are you born and raised in WY because my call is that you are not. That's it for me on this merry go round here on this post. Next time I post it would be highly appreciated if you do reply to my post could you keep it to the subject that the post is about. I was asking for help here and not your nonsense theories.Thank you for that.

[flyinhunter]

First of all your the one that opened this can of worms. Second I m not here to argue but I will defend the rights of fellow hunters and what you think is right is as far as I am concerned a bunch of political garbage. I do have one question for you though and that is are you born and raised in WY because my call is that you are not. That's it for me on this merry go round here on this post. Next time I post it would be highly appreciated if you do reply to my post could you keep it to the subject that the post is about. I was asking for help here and not your nonsense theories.Thank you for that.

Born and raised son. Hunted Oregon and Idaho a lot too. I just have my eyes open. Next time you post it would serve you well to comprehend what you read. I posted two sentences that were about why we have that law. I kept my opinion out of it. Someone else asked for an explination so I gave it. Was attacked, re-explained and was further attacked by someone who didn't like to hear the answer to their question. So maybe, since this is the internet, you shouldn't read it if you don't like it? Don't ask a question if you don't want to know the answer?

As to the "nonsense theroies"- if you get one elk tag a year, as most people do, that "nonsense theroy" you heard came from 85+ years of elk hunting experience. That's not to brag. That's to qualify my THEROY that you don't like the answers being given by a person who knows. If you are dumb enough to want to go somewhere that you don't have the means to go, by all means. I won't turn ya in.

If, in the off chance that you maybe realize that we share a common intrest. And I live where you want to hunt, and might know an area you could DIY and do very well, if you swallow your pride and quit acting butt hurt that someone stated the glaringly obvious to you. You might be happy with the results. And we can be "internet chummy chum chum buddies." ...but what do I know? I only have 10 or so posts on the forum?

[elkflunky]

Let it go for gods sake!

[JohnFitzgerald]

Guys, we will not be doing this on this forum. Everyone has a right to their own opinion. The owners and administrators of this forum will not stand for demeaning comments or arguments.

Let's keep it friendly guys!

[elkflunky]

Yes this is ridiculous...... SORRY to everyone here. Thanks to the people that helped me on this forum. I will no longer be participating on this great site. I wish everyone good luck in their adventures.

[flyinhunter]

My sincere apologies as well folks. It was never my intention to start an argument.

I hardly think its worth leaving a forum full of folks that share the love of elk hunting and I never meant to make you feel like it was.

[ElkNut1]

Hmm, I guess I should have checked out this thread earlier! (grin) No problem with folks having their own opinions, just leave the name calling out & avoid hurting feelings even in a round about way.

It's obvious that not everyone will agree on every topic & it will always be this way but get along guys, we're all hunters here no matter where we hunt. You are going to run into laws in various states that you like & ones you do not like but they are laws & we have to abide by them like them or not. I too do not like the WY law of not hunting the wilderness without a guide or rep but it's the law, I'm stating it but I'm not going to argue it because it will get none of us anywhere! (grin) It certainly isn't going to change the law! All in all we have a great Elk Forum if not the best there is on the internet & it's thanks to all here who respect that & willingly share info towards helping out their fellow elk hunters! Thanks all!

ElkNut1

[dotman]

Yes this is ridiculous...... SORRY to everyone here. Thanks to the people that helped me on this forum. I will no longer be participating on this great site. I wish everyone good luck in their adventures.

Come on now we don't all have to agree and that is ok. Take a breather and come back and participate. The WY rule always brings out a few feelings and in the end it will just be that way but there is great public non restricted hunting in ID, MT and CO, WY isn't special or more difficult just another place to hunt.