Elk Diaphragm Review Part 2

[flystrait]

Here is the video review of the idea I had of the side by side comparison of elk diaphragms. All of these calls were purchased and of my own opinion based on three different criteria that I wanted to look at. I know there are many other calls on the market, but due to the effort and time frame
this required I wanted to keep it to a minimum and I chose 5 different manufactures for the review.

Here is Part 2 "Double Reeds"


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9SxIXWSI00

[ElkNut1]

OK, here's my take on both of your reviews! (grin) There's not enough use of any of the reeds in either review to see where they shine & where they do not? All reeds in both reviews sound pretty much the same, all would call elk in the right encounter no problem. We need to see the versatility & potential of each reed. How do they serve as an All Purpose Reed? This is what I look for in the elkwoods, I carry two reeds, one is used 90% of the time & can be used for any elk sound Cow or Bull. The 2nd one is for far reaching location types or primarily for herd bulls. Any more than two reeds for use in the field can be confusing for most elk hunters especially newer ones.

For hunters who want to try a different reed over their present ones there has to be a substantial improvement over their present reeds this is why I feel versatility in a reed needs to be shown here.

Too, how does each one feel in your mouth when in position. Is it big, wide, comfortable, do you have a wide type mouth pallet so you like one over the other, share which ones have the narrower stance & feel.

If you do another review unleash that bad boy & let those things rip, get creative & show us what those reeds are capable of. (grin)

By the way, you sound best on the Berry Reeds! (grin)

ElkNut1

[>>>---WW---->]

Again , Good job! I'm sure there will be many guys that can get something good out of your efforts. For guys like me, I already pretty much know what my favorites are. But for others, I encourage you to pay close attention to what Craig is doing here and hopefully it may help you find that perfect call you have been looking for.

But when it comes down to the nitty gritty, the very best call in the whole wide world is that one that works best for you. So try a bunch of them out and see for yourself what does the best job for you.

[Wapiti]

Craig,

Thanks for taking the time to give us all a video on some of the calls on the market.
As with any reed on the market, it really should not matter on single reeds put them in however you like. But on doubles and triple reeds the short latex always go to the roof of your mouth. Some new caller's would not know this, so a quick mention on that will really help new callers. I get asked that all the time.

Now with the quality of tone's and this is only my opinion. They all sound the same which maybe from the way you are using them. It seems there may be to much pressure and you are bottoming the reeds out. If you use less tongue pressure the tone's will be much crisper. They will sound like the Berry reed did as it was smooth and not forced.

Now a little tip I learned along the way is to use the air in your chest and hiss like a snake instead of blowing like you would to whistle.

I'm not sure if your getting to cow calls in the third video or not but another video with cow mews, chirps, calf calls, herd buzz's. Also bull sounds like growls, moans and grunts, long high note on each reed, how easy it is to go through the tones from low to high and lip bawls from each reed from single to the triples. With all these sounds the viewers will really see which calls perform and which ones do not. This is what I put all my reed calls from Wapiti River Outdoors through. If they can't make it they get changed and changed until they can.

I feel very confident all the reeds you have can and will make all these sounds. Call makers take pride in there calls and strive to make the calls perfect and this is why the industry is getting better all the time. In all honesty I have thrown more calls away then 50 guys could ever buy. But this is what it takes. This is what the paying customers deserve.

Thanks again for all you are doing and if you need a hand just ask. There are so many great people on this site and we are all here to help each other out. I'm sure all of us would give the shirt off our backs to help out another elk hunter !!

Travis
Wapiti River Outdoors

[PHELPS GAME CALLS]

I have a few calls where the short latex is on the bottom. I always advise putting the tab down which makes the crowned frame fit right (on non pallete plate).

[BrentLaBere]

Thanks for the video fly straight. I guess I would like to hear some other sounds as well just like Wapiti and Paul had mentioned.
I am new to calling so if you can give as much detail as possible it would be helpful. Maybe even compare how tight/loose the latex is to another brand. For example, when I use the raging bull versus the all star, I lean towards a tighter latex that allows me to use less tongue pressure and air pressure. It would be nice to know if you have tested one similar to that. Just something I am looking for so I don't have to buy the store in order to find it haha. Either way nice work, I enjoyed it.

[flystrait]

Thanks for the replies folks.

I wanted to take a few minutes and re-iterate what the video review is about. The main goal was to give "Basic" information on the reeds themselves. Again this was not intended to be a "how to". The diaphragm review was based on three criteria (1.The fit right out of the package 2.Quality of tone 3.Ease of use), to keep it simple and straight forward.

I wanted to use them across the board in a manner that was as consistent as I could provide, therefore I chose to use one simple bugle with a few grunts. All of these call’s are very capable making a variety of sounds, including cow sounds. Based on the time and length of the videos on the review I have completed, I did not feel adding any more than I did would provide significant incremental benefit and would make them far too lengthy. I think a “how to” to show the versatility of specific diaphragms would be a great idea. In fact, Troy with Glacier Country has a few on his website specific to each one and the use of it (other manufactures may as well – I just haven’t checked for this on their sites). I agree that all the manufactures take great pride in the use and development of their calls and that is what makes us better. I also wanted to be consciences about that fact and not push my personal opinion on anyone. Yes I have my favorites at this point, but again that is not what the review is supposed to be about. As ww stated, many callers already have their favorite reed. A primary goal for this review was to provide some insight and share some sounds for the guys that might be looking for some direction. As far as all the calls sounding the same, I will work on editing the videos only as a follow up and show all the calls back to back. I believe this could be a benefit and might better highlight some of the differences in tone and volume that I heard when I did the review.

Thanks again for your input.
Craig

[Glacier Country]

I make a lot of my calls with the long reed up. I have played around with this a bunch. For every call that I market I have a similar call recipe that has the short reed up. Depending on what animal you are trying to mimic and the tones specific to that animal the short reed either goes up or down. I think you are better off putting the tab down and the crown up as mentioned above. Elk calls can be made with either the short reed either up or down depending on the tones you want to highlight.

[WapitiTalk1]

Another very good review. I really like how you are using the same basic calls, grunts, and similar air pressure to compare the fit, ease of use, etc. I think these reviews provide a very good base for folks looking to initially start with diaphrams, or, vets looking at perhaps trying some new brands/types.. Looking forward to part 3. RJ

[flystrait]

Thanks for the video fly straight. I guess I would like to hear some other sounds as well just like Wapiti and Paul had mentioned.
I am new to calling so if you can give as much detail as possible it would be helpful. Maybe even compare how tight/loose the latex is to another brand. For example, when I use the raging bull versus the all star, I lean towards a tighter latex that allows me to use less tongue pressure and air pressure. It would be nice to know if you have tested one similar to that. Just something I am looking for so I don't have to buy the store in order to find it haha. Either way nice work, I enjoyed it.

Please feel free to PM me with any questions.

[Glacier Country]

I was hoping to hear some cow sounds on cow calls and the versatile calls as well as some different types of Bugles. Craig is right about how much time it takes to do it, and edit it . Maybe in the future?? Maybe slightly different criteria?

To help Craig out a little here....
Glacier Country Hunting Calls, Point Blank, and Phelps, Wapiti River Outdoors, Carlton,Hunters Specialties,Knight and Hale,Fox Pro, ETC. all make calls based off of the same basic Frame style. It is a Frame that was originally used for Turkey calls. For many many years hunters have used this frame type in the Turkey and elk woods with great success. If the frame on any of these calls fit your pallet... you can probably use calls made from any of these manufactures. The fit in your pallet will be similar.IF you can use this type of frame you will have many very good calls to choose from.

My son was using this type of call frame when he was 5 years old. His pallet was probably smaller than most of you guys. Just 2 weekends ago, I had donated some calls to the winners of a 3D shoot. One of the winners walked up and said,"I can't use these, the frame is too wide." I showed him how to bend the frame slightly and in 2 minutes he was making fantastic sounds. Telling me how him and his buddies all will probably buy 20 reeds each.

Bugling Bull and Berry calls have frames that are not as wide as the Turkey call frame based calls.
Bugling Bulls pallet plate calls have the smallest frame. Rockie is the inventor of this frame and Primos also uses this frame on some of their calls.

Some guys really like that frame, and I personally have won a lot of contests with them.Well I guess, I have won with both frame types.
Maybe It should also be noted that The Bugling Bull calls with the plastic dome on them like the (Full Rut) look to me like they are built on the same frame type as Glacier Country Hunting Calls, Point Blank,Phelps Etc... but have a black plastic Tone Top on them.

Just because your buddy uses a certain type of elk call doesn't necessarily mean that is the best one for you. Even if your buddy is super elk Savvy.
Corey Jacobsen, Joel Turner,Brian Langley,and Dan Whitmus are all multiple time World Champion elk callers, none of them used the same reed calls to win the Championship! 3 of those champions used calls based on a turkey call frame. Rockie and Corey Jacobsen have each won several World Championships each with their Pallet Plate calls as well. Rockie makes very good calls.
Well that's all fine and dandy but what does that all mean to you? Think about this, for a minute...

What if you have packed in several miles and mess up on a dandy 6 point bull, are you going to use the same calls to try to lure him in again the next morning? I would suggest a different call with a different sound. If you are not a prostaff for a call company, then maybe even a call made from a different manufacturer??

It Seems most hunters want a versatile call that can do cow calls and bull calls. ME Too! I make Several very versatile calls.

This is not always the BEST call to use in every situation however. You have to realize that you will make better cow calls with a dedicated Cow /Calf reed. You might be able to make better bull calls with a dedicated bull call. A location call is used for locating elk from quite a distance. This call has a lot of backbone. I want to hear it bounce off of 3 ridges and echo back. I then get close and switch to either a versatile call, a cow/calf call or a Bull only call that is used to make the herd bull charge me. Each situation dictates which call I intend to use.
I may be hunting a herd bull that is a lover and so I switch to a cow/calf only call to call in the cows... the herd bull will follow...

Do you always go fly fishing with just an Adams and a prince nymph?? Probably not. It is the same with Elk. The versatile do it all call may get the job done a lot of the time.Especially with a caller 100 yards from the shooter. But if you match the hatch so to speak, Say the right things to the elk, at the right times Your Success rate will go up. To match the elk Hatch I use situation specific calls sometimes. I will admit to being an elk call junkie.
I have called in hundreds upon hundreds of elk. I just love to mimic any sound I hear them make.
90% of the bowhunters hunting elk,fail to tag an elk.
You just might have come to the right place, to learn how to be in that 10% year after year! Hope this helps--->Troy

[PHELPS GAME CALLS]

I was hoping to hear some cow sounds on cow calls and the versatile calls as well as some different types of Bugles. Craig is right about how much time it takes to do it, and edit it . Maybe in the future?? Maybe slightly different criteria?

To help Craig out a little here....
Glacier Country Hunting Calls, Point Blank, and Phelps, Wapiti River Outdoors, Carlton,Hunters Specialties,Knight and Hale,Fox Pro, ETC. all make calls based off of the same basic Frame style. It is a Frame that was originally used for Turkey calls. For many many years hunters have used this frame type in the Turkey and elk woods with great success. If the frame on any of these calls fit your pallet... you can probably use calls made from any of these manufactures. The fit in your pallet will be similar.IF you can use this type of frame you will have many very good calls to choose from.

My son was using this type of call frame when he was 5 years old. His pallet was probably smaller than most of you guys. Just 2 weekends ago, I had donated some calls to the winners of a 3D shoot. One of the winners walked up and said,"I can't use these, the frame is too wide." I showed him how to bend the frame slightly and in 2 minutes he was making fantastic sounds. Telling me how him and his buddies all will probably buy 20 reeds each.

Bugling Bull and Berry calls have frames that are not as wide as the Turkey call frame based calls.
Bugling Bulls pallet plate calls have the smallest frame. Rockie is the inventor of this frame and Primos also uses this frame on some of their calls.

Some guys really like that frame, and I personally have won a lot of contests with them.Well I guess, I have won with both frame types.
Maybe It should also be noted that The Bugling Bull calls with the plastic dome on them like the (Full Rut) look to me like they are built on the same frame type as Glacier Country Hunting Calls, Point Blank,Phelps Etc... but have a black plastic Tone Top on them.

Just because your buddy uses a certain type of elk call doesn't necessarily mean that is the best one for you. Even if your buddy is super elk Savvy.
Corey Jacobsen, Joel Turner,Brian Langley,and Dan Whitmus are all multiple time World Champion elk callers, none of them used the same reed calls to win the Championship! 3 of those champions used calls based on a turkey call frame. Rockie and Corey Jacobsen have each won several World Championships each with their Pallet Plate calls as well. Rockie makes very good calls.
Well that's all fine and dandy but what does that all mean to you? Think about this, for a minute...

What if you have packed in several miles and mess up on a dandy 6 point bull, are you going to use the same calls to try to lure him in again the next morning? I would suggest a different call with a different sound. If you are not a prostaff for a call company, then maybe even a call made from a different manufacturer??

It Seems most hunters want a versatile call that can do cow calls and bull calls. ME Too! I make Several very versatile calls.

This is not always the BEST call to use in every situation however. You have to realize that you will make better cow calls with a dedicated Cow /Calf reed. You might be able to make better bull calls with a dedicated bull call. A location call is used for locating elk from quite a distance. This call has a lot of backbone. I want to hear it bounce off of 3 ridges and echo back. I then get close and switch to either a versatile call, a cow/calf call or a Bull only call that is used to make the herd bull charge me. Each situation dictates which call I intend to use.
I may be hunting a herd bull that is a lover and so I switch to a cow/calf only call to call in the cows... the herd bull will follow...

Do you always go fly fishing with just an Adams and a prince nymph?? Probably not. It is the same with Elk. The versatile do it all call may get the job done a lot of the time.Especially with a caller 100 yards from the shooter. But if you match the hatch so to speak, Say the right things to the elk, at the right times Your Success rate will go up. To match the elk Hatch I use situation specific calls sometimes. I will admit to being an elk call junkie.
I have called in hundreds upon hundreds of elk. I just love to mimic any sound I hear them make.
90% of the bowhunters hunting elk,fail to tag an elk.
You just might have come to the right place, to learn how to be in that 10% year after year! Hope this helps--->Troy

Ditto! You must find a call that works for you and that you are confident in. It has been proven that all of these call manufacturers calls will work in the right hands.

[Vanish]

Bugling Bull and Berry calls have frames that are not as wide as the Turkey call frame based calls.
Bugling Bulls pallet plate calls have the smallest frame. Rockie is the inventor of this frame and Primos also uses this frame on some of their calls.

Son of a ... I started with the Bugling Bull's Raging Bull and I felt it is too wide for me. To hear it is one of the skinnier calls does not bode well.

[flystrait]

Bugling Bull and Berry calls have frames that are not as wide as the Turkey call frame based calls.
Bugling Bulls pallet plate calls have the smallest frame. Rockie is the inventor of this frame and Primos also uses this frame on some of their calls.

Son of a ... I started with the Bugling Bull's Raging Bull and I felt it is too wide for me. To hear it is one of the skinnier calls does not bode well.

I actually went to the mini's myself for a few years that Primo's put out. After trying many different ones over the years I found they will fit different "wider frames vs small frams vs tone tops and etc". After you use them you find where they fit your mouth best and you will be able to blow many different calls. It just takes a open mind and practice. The easier ones to start with will be the single reeds no matter the frame.