The origin of 'Run & Gun' style elk hunting

[cnelk]

With the popularity of the 'run & gun style elk hunting, it got me thinking about how that style originated.
It seems to very effective, but is that because more people hunt that way over stealth and patience?

Years ago, Im sure native americans killed many, many elk, but not by running and gunning, but by using stealth & patience over water holes, wallows, trails etc.

So where did the 'run & gun' originate?

By impatient hunters?

[ElkNut1]

Ha Ha, not quite!! I do not know where it originates but I can say why we employ it every year. We call in tons of bulls & cows with this technique. I guess it's knowing you are accepting the ultimate challenge & beating them at their own game. Beating elk through vocalization has its perks, it's a high energy adrenalin rush. I've taken elk through about every means known & nothing in my book beats calling to them & calling them to bowrange. I'm hooked for life. (grin)

ElkNut1

[Wapitibob]

I've been runnin and gunnin since 1974 and the guy who told me how to hunt them was doing it in the 60's, calling them in with his voice so it's been around for a while.

[cnelk]

Do you think with the wide range of calls on the market today increases hunters to employ this method over stealth and patience?

[ElkNut1]

Probably that & lots of success stories where calling is involved. If I had to choose one way of hunting elk calls would be my choice 100% of the time! It's not just the calls it's knowing how & when to use them that is so dynamic. Too, I believe when new elk hunters hit the woods they expect to experience the ultimate western challenge that they see on TV or read about in the magazines. Calling is king! (grin)

ElkNut1

[cnelk]

At what point does 'Adrenaline Gratification' overrule 'Good things come to those that wait'?

Im just trying to put together both styles of hunting. I do both. Not one anymore than the other

[WapitiTalk1]

Like others have said, I'm not sure where it started but do I know my dad used to call to locate way, way back by blowing sharply into a dirty thirty Winchester shell (or 30-40 Craig, whichever shell was on hand). Once an answer was received, the hunt was on. In the early/mid 70s, that evolved into a 2 inch pvc pipe made into a kind of a flute that one could get a few notes on (my first bugle BTW). Anyone remember those? We were really living the high life then . Now, for patience and stealth, I personally believe that these are also factors in successful "run and gun" elk hunting. The run and gun method is a title, or, description of a method of locating and making a battle plan to call in, or more often the case, get as close as possible to vocal elk and attempt to get a shot. Run and gun is not as literal as the title lends. There is much more to it than again, the title lends. I have never taken an elk from a tree stand but am very interested in adding this method to my arsenal. I'm not sure I'll get a tree stand this year, but plan on doing so. I like the idea of locking in a handful of select wallows, travel routes, etc., and placing a tree stand there and spending many hours watching what comes in/goes by. Notice I left out waterhole? Where I live on the W side of WA, there is lotsa water.. none worth sitting on. I would say that the vocal aspect of elk hunting is what draws me, and many others, to this elk rut phenomenon in the elkwoods. It is my preference for sure but, I believe I would also enjoy (perhaps not quite as much), sitting high in a tree stand, watching and listening to the forest around me. I only hunt elk with a bow, during the rut, in the state that allows me to do so. The way the WA season is deteriorating, tree stand hunting may be a very good option as finances start to limit my out of state hunting. Interesting thread.

[ElkNut1]

Cnelk, when my legs won't carry me to the spots I want to be in the style I enjoy most! (grin) 95% of our elk fall to run & gun tactics. It's not for everyone but the more you experience it the more addictive it can be! If hunters expect to toss a few sounds around & have elk come running then they are in for a rude awakening, I think this in time can turn guys/gals into "destination" hunters with little to no calling. It's OK at times but by no means would I want to settle on just that.

ElkNut1

[Indian Summer]

Run & gun is an age old term used by turkey hunters running ridges with a trusty 12 guage after distant gobbles from long before sun up til mid day. I've always compared hunting rutting bulls to hunting spring turkeys and when I use the words run & gun for bulls in bow season it actually stems from my turkey hunting days.

Back then during archery we usually didn't really run too far with our bows to top a finger and hear another bull tooting his flute so we didn't use the term a whole lot. BUT, come gun season make no mistake... for the hunters like me who like to live on wild game as much as possible and hate unpunched elk tags.... Runnin' and gunnin' for a late season bull or cow haunted by the thought of an empty freezer is like walking into the grocery store 5 minutes before they close! And I love it! If you know an area and know there are elk there what could be funner than trying to run one down? What could be more exhausting too! At that point if I have to I'll run myself into the dirt to make sure I've gotten the whole elk fever thing out of my system before the off season. It doesn't work! lol

Not so sure about your Native American Indian scenario though. They rode bareback right into herds of tatonka flinging arrows as fast as they could. If nobody before them tried this I'd say they invented run and gun. Therefore I'd say it was invented by really hungry hunters instead of impatient ones. The impatient ones are the ones who use run and gun as plan A. Many of those are mostly hungry to prove their manliness to their peers. Some of those ones we call oachers. Shortly after the pale faces saw this Indian technique they perfected the art by adding the use of long guns. Immediately after that they invented wanton waste of game! I don't think cavemen tried that approach with dinosaurs or wooly mammoths. Elmer Fudd was a big fan of run n gun style hunting but he was never very good at it. On a more recet note inner city kids have decided run and gun from vehicles is a way to wage war on each other. The evolution of man. ha ha

Run & gun.... sounds like fun right. Productive too as long as we remember to slow down when the time is right to actually get the job done right! I guess that's the trick.

[>>>---WW---->]

Do you think with the wide range of calls on the market today increases hunters to employ this method over stealth and patience?

I like that question Brad. The wide range of calls, packs, camo, and whatever else is there to get your money and make you feel like you are a better equipt hunter. Some are really good and others are nothing but gimmics. Take for instance the camo manufacturer that says he's never happy until he gets it perfect. Two years later he comes up with another pattern. Hmmmm! Wonder what happened to perfect one he had two years ago. LOL!

As far as the run and gun thing goes, back when I started out I had never heard of that term. It just seemed to be the natural thing to do. The very first bull to answer my bugle wouldn't come to me so I went to him. That's how I got started in the game of Run & Gun. Calling in a raging bull that is coming to kick you tail is the the ultimate thing in hunting.

Run & Gun Rocks!

[Vanish]

To me it seems there is probably a time and place for both.

I my mere two years experience in a pressured CO OTC unit, it doesn't seem to do a damn bit of good to run & gun until the elk are ready for it. If you're calling when the elk aren't, then all you're doing is telling them where to avoid**. I think during those periods, you're much better off still hunting, slowly picking your way through the timber scanning for elk. **This obviously does not occur where ElkNut hunts, as he is able to call elk all year. Some say it is confidence in calling, but I say its location location location.

When the rut finally happens, you better be in shape, because there is no time to waste on still hunting. If you get a conversation going with a bull, you better be running to him! Sure, you can still sneak in on one, but if they're bugling, its pretty likely you aren't the only one to hear it either.

[Jaquomo]

Mike Lapinski sort of made a name for himself with the run-gun-bugle-and-push-a-bull-till-he-turns-to-challenge style of hunting in the early '80s. He managed to get three or four stories in national magazines and at least one book out of one five point bull that fell for that tactic. That's what I would consider "run and gun" hunting.

Otherwise, it's just elk hunting: you cover ground until you find elk, then adjust your tactics according to the situation (unless you're a true waterhole/wallow/treestand hunter). Sometimes calling is right if the bull is in the right mood - I'm not talking about satellite bulls, which are almost ALWAYS in the right mood.... Other times it's better to lay back and be patient. Most guys I know and know of who consistently kill BIG bulls with the bow rarely call once they've located the bull they want. Chuck Adams almost never does any calling once he's located a target bull, and he kills as many truly big bulls as anyone except maybe Danny Moore, who mostly hunts low-density elk with bulls that sometimes respond to aggressive bugles.

As Dan told me once, "I just get in as close as I can and bugle as loud as I can, and get ready to shoot". Where I hunt, an aggressive bugle close to a dominant herd bull will send him packing 99 times out of a hundred. Twenty years ago, that tactic worked on a regular basis.