Three instead of two

[JohnFitzgerald]

I got a PM request asking me to talk about why I prefer 3 in my team over 2.

First, in cold call setups it's a real benefit to work the triangle method. All three work the calls. When an elk comes in, the two callers that build the side of approach go silent. The opposite point takes over as the only caller. No matter which way the elk comes, you will always have shooters and a caller.

If we are on a pursuit, the caller is always in charge. He controls the action and decides on weather he needs two shooters or one. An extra guy working the bull can have great benefits. He can help with wind checks, protecting the flanks, stomping, raking, or complementary calling.

We all know that elk don't always come the way we expect. A shooter to protect the flanks is also a good idea. For me, three hunters are optimum, four is workable, but five is way too many.

Just my 2-cents.

[cnelk]

Yup = Ive been doing 'triangle elk' for years...
Very very deadly and everyone gets in on the action

[JJ Overkill]

I was just talking to trophy hill about trying this method this season since there are three of us heading out together. I think it could be a good tactic to try.

[BarW]

I like it. I will have two rookie hunters with me this season and this is the style of cold calling we will implement

[ctdad]

How far apart do the three hunters set up from each other?
How do you know which direction elk are coming in from if they aren't calling? Most of my cold calling setups have brought in elk silently.

[cnelk]

Triangle elk works great for blind calling set-ups.

We try to be 60-70 apart, or just out of sight

[JohnFitzgerald]

Usually we sit 30 - 60 yards apart, just depends on cover and terrain.

We too have had elk come in silent, but not every elk. Some sound like a freight train and others give away their approach by stepping on something. And if we are lucky, some give some sort of call.

If the elk does come in silent, shooter(s) that have eyes on the elk will stop calling.

[WapitiTalk1]

Thanks for starting this thread John. Very interesting. What kind of calls do the three hunters use in these setups?

[easeup]

interesting.........

what if two of the guys dont know what to do with a call?

[JohnFitzgerald]

Hoochie momma's! Lol.....oh no john went there! . On a serious note, that's why I've decided to only hunt with guys who know how to call. Each team member should be able to give some basic sounds. Even if they use an external call, the must contribute.

RJ - I usually start with simple cow sounds and eventually ramp it up to excited herd talk or a breeding sequence. For me, everything goes in cold calling sequences. Just make sure the picture is painted in the mind of an elk. Once Mike and I gave a battling bulls sequence. Another bull gained 1000' elevation, bugling all the way, to come see what the fuss was all about. Funny thing was we had sat on that ridge for 15 minutes trying to locate bugle something. Not single response until we started the battle.

Just my 2-cents.

[JohnFitzgerald]

CNELk- I think I remember viewing a youtube vid of yours on the triangle. Maybe??????? If you have one can you post the link?

[cnelk]

Sometimes I set up my decoy in the middle of us 3.
Sometimes one of the 3 can stomp or thrash along with calling

Its pretty much a wide open venture to see what happens

[WapitiTalk1]

Hoochie momma's! Lol.....oh no john went there! . On a serious note, that's why I've decided to only hunt with guys who know how to call. Each team member should be able to give some basic sounds. Even if they use an external call, the must contribute.

RJ - I usually start with simple cow sounds and eventually ramp it up to excited herd talk or a breeding sequence. For me, everything goes in cold calling sequences. Just make sure the picture is painted in the mind of an elk. Once Mike and I gave a battling bulls sequence. Another bull gained 1000' elevation, bugling all the way, to come see what the fuss was all about. Funny thing was we had sat on that ridge for 15 minutes trying to locate bugle something. Not single response until we started the battle.

Just my 2-cents.

Following this closely. I've used the "dueling bulls" sequence with two guys before with success. OK, you get a vocal "hit" with three cats in your squad.. It's not a screamer wanting to run over the top of you but a herd bull with chicks. I know how to attack very well with one shooter and one caller. With three guys, this is where I'm interested in some tried and proven tips/tactics.. Again, watching this one closely.

[JohnFitzgerald]

Work bulls the same was as if you had two guys. Just put the third or fourth to work in a way that benefits the pursuit.

Three guys can work a herd bull, roles just depends on the tactic. But with three the shooter should only concentrate on the shot and not the calling.

[WapitiTalk1]

I'm tracking so far. One (or three) creates the illusion of elk, whether cows, bulls, or a combination, and the shooter (or shooters) move in as the situation dictates. Is it a pliable option for two shooters to move in, essentially flanking the bull, and a lone caller does his thing? What I'm saying is that three guys would have to really be in tune with not only their calling, but, each other's whereabouts as they worked the bull which is challenging at the least. Not discounting this method at all (far from it), just trying to pick your brain on something I haven't deployed much. Oh yeah, like Jim Carey in the elevator scene in Liar Liar, I have to say "it was me" who asked JF to start this thread as I have minimal experience with the triangle offense technique

[JohnFitzgerald]

I think every situation will be different. If we are working a herd bull and I select two shooters, never will I split them to the point that they loose track of each other. That can get really dangerous. But once again, roles need to be assigned in advance. If you think two shooters can get it done, then send both.

Preseason, go through your tactics and see how they can be adapted to suite a three man run and gun team!

[Da White Shoe]

We normally hunt with 3 guys, so this is very familiar to me.
Cold calling is easy. Set the triangle an equal distance apart and have at it.
Once the elk makes his presence known, the rear guy or guys do the calling.
Having a call/answer routine established ahead of time will signal to the others when an elk is present.
If my brother doesn't answer me, he sees an elk approaching. If our buddy, Jake doesn't answer my brother, he sees one coming.

Running down a herd bull is possible with this method also.
If you picture a triangle of guys, the point is always facing away from the bull.
The two guys in the lead are as far apart as they can be... and still be in sight of each other.
Our three guys are all good callers, so the 2 lead/shooters will be doing cow calls and the rear caller will be the bull.
The two shooters cow calling will let the rear guy know how far back he should be.

[ElkNut1]

2 to 4 guys is a bunch of fun & all can be utilized. The above tactics are high odds cows & satellite appearances! For herd bulls & high success tactics things need to be re-thought out!

ElKNut1

[>>>---WW---->]

I totally agree Paul. Just to let you know I don't miss interpert all your threads. LOL!

[elkaholic]

Good stuff. I am hunting with three guys this fall for the first time so keep up the good conversation.

How would you modify this approach for say open country? (spotty juniper and sage brush)

[elkmtngear]

Good stuff. I am hunting with three guys this fall for the first time so keep up the good conversation.

How would you modify this approach for say open country? (spotty juniper and sage brush)

You could use a decoy, (or several) to shield your approach. 3 hunters behind the decoy is actually doable. After your shooters (or the guys in the broad end of the "triangle") are in place, the decoy guy could drop back and call.

[otcWill]

When it comes to guys who know what they're doing with a call, I say the more the merrier! Nothing more convincing to an elk then a well polished calling team of 3 or more.

[cnelk]

When it comes to guys who know what they're doing with a call, I say the more the merrier! Nothing more convincing to an elk then a well polished calling team of 3 or more.

This is the key

When set up for blind calling, We wait a few minutes to let everything quiet down, guys do their ranges, get nestled in and the 2 forward guys mew softly to let let the back guy know 'All Systems Go'

We then call softly to each other, not knowing how close [or far] elk may be.

We just mostly 'cow talk', one guy calls, someone answers him, then the other guy answers.
After a few minutes, we ramp it up. One guy will do stomping, raking.

It is a hoot!

But its not all that easy.
You have to really be on your toes and concentrate on many things, your calling, your buddies that are calling, and watching for elk.
Its not that hard to forget if your heard a guy call!!!
Its like being an orchestra conductor!

One more thing tho...

When the calling session is over, the back guy makes a weird call [i.e. turkey cluck]
The other 2 guys answer back with a cluck.

This avoids anyone getting up too early and busting an elk that may have been spotted coming in.

If only one return cluck is heard, we keep calling.

We are not too choosy in shooting elk... many cows and raghorns have died doing this...

[JohnFitzgerald]

We too have an all clear signal for cold calls. This is a MUST!

[JohnFitzgerald]

Good stuff. I am hunting with three guys this fall for the first time so keep up the good conversation.

How would you modify this approach for say open country? (spotty juniper and sage brush)

Honestly, I'm not sure. Never hunted that type of country so anything I state would just be a guess. Anyone else have an idea on how elkaholic could modify for open country?

[Trophyhill]

Is it important to "throw" your calls in different directions while in this type of setup? Or does that matter?

[ElkNut1]

"All clear" sounds of use, rapid calf chirps or turkey yelps, if no response from shooter then caller/callers do not move!


Open country tactics, GLASS, Spot & Stalk, when elk are vocal Call & Stalk with two or more hunters, that's my goto tactic. Hunt "destination" spots, wallows, water source, trails to & from feeding & bedding with little to no calling!

Trophyhill, it's a nice touch to cast sounds but it's not a deal breaker if you don't, it will work either way.

ElkNut1

[>>>---WW---->]

As to the open country calling. You have to remember that above all, an incoming elk expects to see the elk (caller) that is making the sounds. If not, they will either leave or hang up. The exception could be spikes or young animals, especially if they are by themselves. They are usually always looking for companionship.

So choose your setup wisely. Give them a reason why they can't see another elk. Or, use a decoy.

[Trophyhill]

I'm assuming that The guys forming the triangle Are all facing out And no one takes a shot remotely close to or inside the perimeter?

[BobcatJerry]

How long will you sit at a cold call before pulling out? I have had trouble with my partners, who don't call sitting very long.

[JohnFitzgerald]

Tophyhill - Everyone knows where the triangle points are and nobody moves until the "all clear" signal is given.

BobcatJerry - Generally the cold calling setups last 30 minutes. If things start happening or if we are in a very elky spot, we usually sit about 60 minutes.