Nervous grunt success

[JGH]

Last weekend, Wife and I were setting up camp in the evening when a cow elk wandered into camp at about 50 yards.

She stared us down for a while, then walked back in the trees and gave a nervous/popping grunt. I had already retrieved my diaphragm call and called right back to her. We exchanged a few grunts and then I gave a soft mew and she came back out of the trees and started walking into camp -- until Dog got nervous and chased her off.

It was my first experience using this call to call in an elk.

Now that I'm "educated" on how useful the call is, I thought I'd ask for folks to educate me on the fine points of the nervous/popping grunt ... when to use it, how to make it, etc.

[LckyTylr]

The only thing i can contribute is that I'm pretty sure that YOU want to be the first one to use it. Paul explains that a nervous grunt is asking the question "who's over there, are you an elk?". If the elk asks you first, you are supposed to step out from behind the tree and be an elk. Since you are NOT an elk, you want to be the first one to ask the question, then said elk is supposed to show you their boiler room on a platter.

But hey, I'm new, so if this is wrong, maybe one of the moderators can delete my post.

[JGH]

Well, that's what I thought, too. I figured she was saying "Show yourself."

So -- the second after she said that, I said it back to her! Then I gave what Chris Roe calls an "Assembly Mew" and she walked right in!

After the dog chased her off, by the way, she didn't go far. She continued to bark, and I barked back at her, for probably 3-5 minutes. I think it would've been possible (not probable, but possible) to "keep her talking" that way while someone else slipped down closer, either to shoot, or give a soft mew of their own.

[welka]

Have heard it a couple of times when we didn't do it first. Never works out good if bull does it first. Some use it to stop a bull. I sill use a mew. Good luck.

[RockChucker30]

I used it last year to stop a bull. He was moving fast so when I gave him a nervous grunt he stopped dead broadside and looked at me.

[slim9300]

I could be wrong but that sounds like she alarm barked at you to me. I have had the same thing happen with cows. In some cases they won't go away even though they are looking right at me call to them. They seem to get convinced that I'm either an odd looking elk or that I'm amongst some other cows and must not be a threat.

Those are fun encounters and they are exactly how I became convinced Paul knew what he was talking about when it came to elk language a few years back. I called an entire herd of cows that had spooked from me at 20 yards, back in from 100 yards. They came in to about 40 yards or so and began feeding while a few of the herd bedded back down in the open clearcut; All the while looking right at me and my hunting partner. Even though it was July, these were very pressured elk that were used to being road hunted hard by Indians (and everyone else during the 'regular' season) since this was a general area.

[eltaco]

I've used it just as you described on numerous occasions. If I get grunted at, I respond back to it likewise, and immediately. I can't honestly think of a time where I've done it and had the elk run off... but I know they would have had I not responded. The popping grunt is one of my favorite calls, as it helps to calm the situation and keep the elk around to give you more time for a shot opportunity. I was scared to try it a few years ago aand I'm very glad to have given it a shot. Glad you had this experience! It'll pay off come September, for sure!

[JohnFitzgerald]

I agree. A nervous/popping grunt is one of the must have tools in ones arsenal. You are in for a real treat when they use it with accompanying sounds! I've had bulls use it at the attend of challenge bugles as well as at the end of screams. When they beat you to the punch, spin the situation into your favor. Maybe hit them back with a grunt and then start another tactic.

Remember, when an elk pops you like that they are nervous about something. When an elk alarm barks you, pack it up and move on!

Just my 2-cents.

[ElkNut1]

The nervous/popping grunt is one sound every hunter in the elkwoods should know, this one sound can make or break your hunt. This sound asks an action from other elk this is why it's our # 1 choice for stopping any elk even out to several hundred yards! Go to the ElkNut Tips & Clips Forum & watch it there if unsure of this sound & how to make it.

ElkNut1

[JGH]

Thanks for the help.

How can you differentiate between the ALARM bark and the NERVOUS/POPPING one?

[slim9300]

I agree. A nervous/popping grunt is one of the must have tools in ones arsenal. You are in for a real treat when they use it with accompanying sounds! I've had bulls use it at the attend of challenge bugles as well as at the end of screams. When they beat you to the punch, spin the situation into your favor. Maybe hit them back with a grunt and then start another tactic.

Remember, when an elk pops you like that they are nervous about something. When an elk alarm barks you, pack it up and move on!

Just my 2-cents.

I'm curious what you would call this. All barks right?

http://youtu.be/FicHJ-T3kPg

I have had cows bark on numerous occasions and then either stay within bow range for a long period of time or simply calm down and begin feeding all as a result of my calls (even come in to investigate on occasion). Are you saying pack it up because she is alerting the bulls in the vicinity or because you will never kill her due to the barking?

[JGH]

Great video. That is definitely the sound she was making, and kept it up for 3-5 minutes I'm guessing.

So ... is that a Nervous/Popping Grunt, or an Alarm Bark?

[ElkNut1]

When nervous grunts are given elk have the tendency to stick around awaiting a satisfying visual or response. Warning or Alarm Barks & elk are outa there, they can reach what they feel is a safe distance & continue with the rapid type barking as an alarm or beware of possible danger in the area to others!

Slim, those are nervous, nervous/popping grunts! She heard other elk in the area or saw something move nearby she was unsure of. Did you call there? If so that explains her nervousness.

ElkNut1

[ctdad]

Is an alarm bark the same noise as a nervous grunt just repeated multiple times or do the two sounds have distinct differences?

[ElkNut1]

The "Bark" can be heard in different tones as well as some having more urgency than others depending on the threat at hand. Since all elk can bark from yearling's to herd bulls this sound may sound different from gender to gender & youngsters to mature cows & bulls. Barks generally are accompanied by distance being put between them & the threat immediately, as far as the tone used it really does not matter just don't give rapid sounding nervous grunts, plus there's no need too. Some will say the bark is a bit shrill in sound over the nervous grunt & at times this is true but it is not written in stone. Again, if it's a nervous grunt elk stick around awaiting a satisfying result, Barks & they are outa there lickidy split! (grin)

ElkNut1

[slim9300]

Slim, those are nervous, nervous/popping grunts! She heard other elk in the area or saw something move nearby she was unsure of. Did you call there? If so that explains her nervousness.

ElkNut1

First off this is not my video.

But I guess we are going to have to disagree for the first time. I feel like she is looking right at him and knows he is a person and a danger. I don't think she's confused as to what she is seeing. I would also say she is warning any elk in the area that there is a threat but that's not to say she isn't curious on some level.

[eltaco]

Slim, those are nervous, nervous/popping grunts! She heard other elk in the area or saw something move nearby she was unsure of. Did you call there? If so that explains her nervousness.

ElkNut1

First off this is not my video.

But I guess we are going to have to disagree for the first time. I feel like she is looking right at him and knows he is a person and a danger. I don't think she's confused as to what she is seeing. I would also say she is warning any elk in the area that there is a threat but that's not to say she isn't curious on some level.

Nuh uh, he di'int! :O

[slim9300]

So what would you call these?

http://youtu.be/8ohCVlT71h8

[slim9300]

Slim, those are nervous, nervous/popping grunts! She heard other elk in the area or saw something move nearby she was unsure of. Did you call there? If so that explains her nervousness.

ElkNut1

First off this is not my video.

But I guess we are going to have to disagree for the first time. I feel like she is looking right at him and knows he is a person and a danger. I don't think she's confused as to what she is seeing. I would also say she is warning any elk in the area that there is a threat but that's not to say she isn't curious on some level.

Nuh uh, he di'int! :O

Don't stir the pot Jeremy! This is an important conversation.

The more we talk about this (and I think back on all of many encounters with these sounds) I'm starting to think an elk can bark but then can come back with a popping grunt or vise versa. One can mean a warning and a second later the sound comes across as much more curious.

If a cow is looking right at you in the open from 20 yards (and the wind is also heading directly toward her) and she makes this noise, can it still be a popping grunt?

[slim9300]

Another:

http://youtu.be/dTSJd5d0PTE

This bull is really young and stupid but it's still worth watching. He seems genuinely confused and curious to me.

[JohnFitzgerald]

Slim, those are nervous, nervous/popping grunts! She heard other elk in the area or saw something move nearby she was unsure of. Did you call there? If so that explains her nervousness.

ElkNut1

First off this is not my video.

But I guess we are going to have to disagree for the first time. I feel like she is looking right at him and knows he is a person and a danger. I don't think she's confused as to what she is seeing. I would also say she is warning any elk in the area that there is a threat but that's not to say she isn't curious on some level.

Sorry slim, my opinion is those are nervous grunts. She looked nervous but not alarmed. If she was really alarmed, do you think she would just keep standing there? She was essentially saying, "Hey...Hey You...What are you...Show Yourself". If she was alarmed she would be barking as she left and would be saying, "RUN...Quick...Everyone Run". Elk don't have hero's! If they sense danger or get alarmed, they split and every elk for themselves.

Second video is nervous grunts as well.

Very good conversation Slim! Hunters need to know the difference.

Just my 2-cents.
jf

[ctdad]

One calling technique I've heard is that when An elk does a nervous grunt, you could do one back and then kind of string that into a group of chuckles to try to calm them down. Anyone ever do that? Does it sound reasonable?

[JohnFitzgerald]

One calling technique I've heard is that when An elk does a nervous grunt, you could do one back and then kind of string that into a group of chuckles to try to calm them down. Anyone ever do that? Does it sound reasonable?

Yes, that's what I do. Not necessarily chuckles every time, it just depends on what elk popped you. Example, a spike popped me once and I popped him back then gave some sweet cow sounds. Came right in!

[eltaco]

Don't stir the pot Jeremy! This is an important conversation.

The more we talk about this (and I think back on all of many encounters with these sounds) I'm starting to think an elk can bark but then can come back with a popping grunt or vise versa. One can mean a warning and a second later the sound comes across as much more curious.

If a cow is looking right at you in the open from 20 yards (and the wind is also heading directly toward her) and she makes this noise, can it still be a popping grunt?

I've had bulls at 12yds nervous grunt at me, anything is possible

Quite honestly, I can't distinguish the difference other than the fact that an elk blows out of the area immediately on an alarm bark. As long as they continue popping grunts at me, I still have an opportunity to turn the situation in my favor. To me, the two sounds are indistinguishable, its whether they stay or run afterwards that tells me if their nervous or alarmed.

[slim9300]

Quite honestly, I can't distinguish the difference other than the fact that an elk blows out of the area immediately on an alarm bark. As long as they continue popping grunts at me, I still have an opportunity to turn the situation in my favor. To me, the two sounds are indistinguishable, its whether they stay or run afterwards that tells me if their nervous or alarmed.

I'm starting to question my understanding of the difference between the two calls. It sounds like I'll know for sure when the cow/bull runs away. Lol.

[slim9300]

Slim, those are nervous, nervous/popping grunts! She heard other elk in the area or saw something move nearby she was unsure of. Did you call there? If so that explains her nervousness.

ElkNut1

First off this is not my video.

But I guess we are going to have to disagree for the first time. I feel like she is looking right at him and knows he is a person and a danger. I don't think she's confused as to what she is seeing. I would also say she is warning any elk in the area that there is a threat but that's not to say she isn't curious on some level.

Sorry slim, my opinion is those are nervous grunts. She looked nervous but not alarmed. If she was really alarmed, do you think she would just keep standing there? She was essentially saying, "Hey...Hey You...What are you...Show Yourself". If she was alarmed she would be barking as she left and would be saying, "RUN...Quick...Everyone Run". Elk don't have hero's! If they sense danger or get alarmed, they split and every elk for themselves.

Second video is nervous grunts as well.

Very good conversation Slim! Hunters need to know the difference.

Just my 2-cents.
jf

So would you say the majority of the time when you hear this sound in the elk woods (popping grunt or bark), is it one or the other? Or are they split evenly?

[ElkNut1]

Wow, this subject took off! (grin) Slim, I think that to date you just haven't seen elk Bark & then take off like their tails are on fire! (grin) No kidding, when there's a warning to themselves or other elk in the area they vacate quickly, there's no messing around!

Just think if you were awakened at night by an intruder in your bedroom & he had a knife or gun & you knew your little sister was in another room so you yelled for her to run & run as fast as she could to escape the present danger! This is what a "Bark" can do for elk, it will put them in survival mode as it should your sister from your warning for her to RUN!

No problem to disagree though! Thanks.

ElkNut1

[JohnFitzgerald]

So would you say the majority of the time when you hear this sound in the elk woods (popping grunt or bark), is it one or the other? Or are they split evenly?

I've only heard the alarm bark once. I was trying to sneak up on a herd of elk and I didn't notice the a cow feeding off by herself. My attention was concentrated on the main herd. Well, needless to say she must have been watching me for while. She barked several times as she was running off and the herd immediately followed. To this day, I still remember the barks by the herd as the left. Absolute amazing sounds but I really don't want to hear it again. The crappy thing was I had taken my boots off for the stalk but couldn't find them after. I was young and inexperienced.

No comment needed WW or Swede.

[slim9300]

Wow, this subject took off! (grin) Slim, I think that to date you just haven't seen elk Bark & then take off like their tails are on fire! (grin) No kidding, when there's a warning to themselves or other elk in the area they vacate quickly, there's no messing around!

Just think if you were awakened at night by an intruder in your bedroom & he had a knife or gun & you knew your little sister was in another room so you yelled for her to run & run as fast as she could to escape the present danger! This is what a "Bark" can do for elk, it will put them in survival mode as it should your sister from your warning for her to RUN!

No problem to disagree though! Thanks.

ElkNut1

Well, I have seen elk bark and then run immediately a few times actually, but I just had no idea that a bark meant that they had to run. I may have been confusing some popping grunts for barks where the elk moved away and lingered, or held their ground as a result to me calling to try and settle them down. Maybe I have been more focused on the type of sound than I should. Thanks for the feedback Paul.

[slim9300]

So would you say the majority of the time when you hear this sound in the elk woods (popping grunt or bark), is it one or the other? Or are they split evenly?

I've only heard the alarm bark once. I was trying to sneak up on a herd of elk and I didn't notice the a cow feeding off by herself. My attention was concentrated on the main herd. Well, needless to say she must have been watching me for while. She barked several times as she was running off and the herd immediately followed. To this day, I still remember the barks by the herd as the left. Absolute amazing sounds but I really don't want to hear it again. The crappy thing was I had taken my boots off for the stalk but couldn't find them after. I was young and inexperienced.

No comment needed WW or Swede.

I had a feeling you might say that. Before this conversation I figured that over the last 10 years of elk hunting I have heard easily 20-25 barks and maybe 5-6 popping grunts. (I know what you are going to say, I do a lot of spooking elk! That is true. In a regular season I see an average of 400+ elk over around 22 days of hunting WA and MT.) But now I question how many we're actually barks.

[Slim jim]

The first time I ever heard an elk bark, I thought that someone's dog was close by and barked at me then the cow showed herself keeping an eye on me and barked a couple more times and then left the area. I remember looking at my buddy and saying "I didn't know elk barked."

[Harmy]

My expereince with these is limited to a couple of instances most before I started to use or read about any kind of calling.

The first time I heard what I believe was an alarm was when I was walking through fairly thick pine looking for mushrooms in late July. Had my head down as I was slowly walking along. I suddenly heard a series of 3 very short grunts (more an "aughaaa" sound without any kind of shrill tones). Very short in duration, less than a second each. The cow covered 30 yards while giving these three grunts and at the end of the third grunt 5-8 other cows jumped up and ran off. Alternatively, I have had a similar situation where I was moving in a thick section of brush and heard a more shrill and longer duration bark. This was about twice the duration and only one bark then dead silence. I stood there for at least 2 minutes not knowing what to do. I finally moved and the cow let out a series of three shorter grunts again and like the other situation other elk then jumped up and ran off. One thing that stuck out but may not be real is that the popping grunt was very loud. The alarm barks were not that loud. But then in the pop instance she was facing me and in the others she was running away as fast as possible.

[Z Barebow]

Would have it helped in this situatiion?

Two years ago I was in a blind calling set up. After almost an hour, I heard a noise and saw a glimpse of legs at 25 yards. (Didn't even know if was an elk or deer) I drew and as this 5 point bull cleared he stopped with his chest behind the only tree that could save his life (25 yards). He was looking at me and the Mexican standoff began. I had a diapragm in my mouth but said nothing. Need less to say I lost the standoff after I had to let down.

If I grunted when he was staring at me, would have he taken a step forward and looked quizzically? And have me send an arrow through his chest? (In this instance he was already stopped. I had a MT decoy out, but he couldn't see it from his angle)

After a minute, I guess I could have tried because in hindsight I had nothing to lose. Looking for opinions on what they do if they are already stopped.

THX.