Etiquette for contacting landowners?

[ABQ_Chica]

I've got a landowner tag for archery elk in NM. Although the tag is good unit-wide, I would like to call the landowner about hunting on his property. I've never done this before. These might seem like bone-headed questions, but I'm new to this and don't want to start off on the wrong foot. So...

Is there any kind of hunting-related etiquette I should employ when contacting landowners?
Is there a commonly-accepted etiquette when it comes to accessing private land?
Is it okay to ask to camp on their property?
Is it common courtesy to promise the landowner part of the meat if you're successful?
Is there anything I shouldn't ask, or ask for?
Is there anything else I should be asking a landowner?

The purpose of this call is to introduce myself, open up a dialogue, find out where his property is (alas, it's not marked on HuntingGPS maps) and ask for permission in advance to scout. Any tips or advice are greatly appreciated. Thank you!

[Trophyhill]

Sounds like you're on the right track. Just turn on your charm and you'll be fine

[ABQ_Chica]

Thanks, Trophyhill. My usual tactic involves a silent bribe with home-made cookies, but I'll start with charm over the phone...

[BrentLaBere]

I think meeting in person is way better than a phone call. They receive calls every year around the same time with the same old song and dance. Meeting in person also is a better way of showing how you care and more than likely are more respectful. Not saying people aren't who call but someone that is willing to shake your hand and get to know you in person is a lot harder to do. I wouldn't start out talking about hunting their piece of property or how big/how many elk they have either. Introducing yourself and not imposing on them will go further and make a better lasting hunter/land owner relationship. Many times of gaining access to land weather it be for waterfowl/deer/pheasants/elk I simply discuss the surrounding area and try to find common interests or even approaches to hunting. I've asked land owners fully knowing they had good hunting property about adjacent property and if the owner is open to allowing access. Usually by the end of the conversation farmer "Joe" will open his gates and say why not hunt my section? Just a few methods I have learned over the years....so just my 2 cents on that

You also mentioned saying you will give them meat. Very nice of you and probably should do it if you are successful but I wouldn't barter hunting access to giving them meat, sounds like you are paying for the hunt?. I think being allowed to hunt you simply come back and give them a nice roast/jerky ect after the hunt as a token of your appreciation. I think it goes over smoother like that. Like I discussed up top about common interest, I got on the topic of catching a lot of walleyes and the farmer just loved them but hasn't had any in a while you can see where that went......next trip out i brought a cooler full.

[easeup]

Be sure and ask how and when they wish to be contacted prior to your arrival.
Ask about travel restrictions with your vehicle ( you know they don't like rutted up roads).
and locked gates.

If the landowner is She, forget your charm....

[ABQ_Chica]

Thanks for the advice, BrentLaBere and easeup. I do know it's a "he," but unfortunately, all I have is a phone number. His address is a PO Box in another state. So I'd have to call to find out where his NM land is even located.

However, I do know the tag brokers pretty well, so I'll ask them if they have more info about the owner...

[buglmin]

Actually, because his landowner tag is unit wide, you can hunt the ranch, and all gates have to be unlocked. Because his tags are unit wide, the public can hunt his property. Thats why the rancher we get our landowner tags from keeps his tags ranch only, so the public cant hunt the 29,000 acres. If the land owner is a jerk bout access, you need to contact the F&G, and they will cut locks off and talk to the land owner.

[mtnmutt]

The CPW and Colorado hunters have told me that approaching in person is preferred. I have never tried, but I make terrible cookies. Take your cookies! There maybe a sign at their gate with information. Also, the closest feed or ranch supply store may help with information about the ranch and its owners.

Ranchers prefer that you leave gates as you found them or follow the instructions posted at the gate. If a gate is open, leave it open. If closed, close after you go through. You would also want to ask this question explicitly in case they have had problems with people leaving the gates open when he wants them closed.

[Swede]

Personally I would not promise anything much upfront, but I would certainly share some of your meat with the rancher if you are successful. You could offer to do some work for him or her. If you get permission, I would also ask if there are any things you need to be careful about such as where you can drive, camping, fires if you are considering one, etc. Inform the rancher you will let him/her know when and where you will be hunting. Show the rancher you are as concerned for his interests as you are in getting an animal and you are likely to get invited back. Often that is the real objective.

[buglmin]

You guys dont understand...in NM, once a landowner turns his private land tags to unit wide, you dont need the ranchers permission to hunt his land. Once he turns the tags unit wide, even the publis is allowed access to hunt his ranch. As long as you hold a valid tag, he cant keep you off his property. You dont need his permission to access his ranch, dont need his permission to hunt his ranch. Just stay on the roads, dont drive all over the property, and you'll be fine. If gates are locked, you need to contact the state F&G, and the F&G personal will contact the landowner to unlock gates, or they will cut the locks to allow access. Once the landowner turns his landowner tags to unit wide, he can not keep anyone from hunting his property. We've dealt with this before, and know what the state F&G personal has told us.

[BrentLaBere]

buglmin, I realized I misunderstood the first post after I hit submit. But even with what you are saying it still sounds like a good idea to talk to the land owner. Could save yourself plenty of scouting while developing a good relationship with the land owner.

[buglmin]

Lol...most landowners in NM dont really like to be bothered too much. Most landowners have other day jobs, and if they own a working cattle ranch, then they do the chores after they get home and on weekends. Personally, its best if a relationship would of been started a few months ago, with evening phone calls. Then he would of been more willing to share ideas where to start. To start now, a phone call in the evenings would be better then just showing up wanting him to start giving you information. And he will probable have other hunters on the ranch, maybe friends, and then you wont get much information from him.
To show up on somebodies ranch and volunteer to do work really isnt a good idea these days. Think about this...say youre fixing fence and break a leg. This could result in lots of medical bills, where legally, cause you were working on the ranch, the landowner is responsbile for medical bills. Would you like this to happen to you if you were a landowner? At no time should you offer to do work the first time you meet a landowner.
The most important thing in making an impression on the landowner is to go about your business, dont drive all over the place, respect the land, and dont be in places you shouldnt be, like on a dirt road during a rainstorm or right after a rainstorm. And FYI, picking up arrowheads or pieces of pottery could get you into serious trouble without the landowners permission. Youre on the property for one reason and one reason only, to hunt, and thats it...

[Swede]

I lived in ranch country and even owned a small ranch. I don't remember it being asked to hunt causing me a problem. I always gave permission to prospective hunters, but asked them to check in with me before they went hunting. It was ok to check with me a day or two before they arrived. The Oregon Master Hunter requires hunters to do volunteer work in order to qualify as a master hunter. That work can be done on private land if the project is approved. I have never heard of any liability issues. I have done volunteer work on neighboring ranches. Liability was never an issue. Our church is staffed and maintained by volunteers. Liability has never been an issue. I admit I am not familiar with New Mexico, but it seems to me, good etiquette is good.

[buglmin]

It sounds like the tag wasnt bought from the landowner, but an agent selling the tags for the rancher .Because of this, the guy she bought the tag from needs to be the one she calls and talks to, not the landowner. She also needs to contact the state of NM, and get a map they send out for the unit that shows the properties. Also, landowners have agents (people representing the landowner) so they dont have to deal with the hassel of selling tags and dealing with hunters. Contact the person you bought the tag from and ask your questions to him. He will know what the landowner wants and dont want...

[easeup]

what I did not explain well is that yes they must allow you access to hunt the ranch per their agreement with NMDGF.
but they don't have to provide unlimited vehicular access on the whole property. so some of their gates may be locked to limit the vehicle passage.
that's all. hey, best wishes in the land of enchantment - my favorite elk hunting grounds.

[Indian Summer]

I was going to mention the gate thing but MtnMutt covered it. Just think like a rancher/landowner.

I have a question: since the landowner doesn't live there, is he leasing the grazing right to anyone? Might be something to think about. I'd also throw in... is there anything else you can think of that I might need to know? Just a general question that opens the door for him to ramble maybe.

I can tell by your list of questions that you'll do a fine job of communicating with him. Best of luck to you!!!

[ABQ_Chica]

Thanks for all the responses...good ideas and advice. Although I like the idea of offering to work/volunteer labor for the landowner, I think I'd rather get to know the landowner first, and make sure they're comfortable with me doing work as well. And thanks for clarifying the NM landowner rules, buglemin. Although legally the landowner for unit-wide tags must allow access here in NM, I figured it would be courteous to at least contact them, especially since I'd like to scout before season opens. Of course, the ultimate goal would be to develop a kind of working/hunting relationship that benefits both of us, but for now I'd be happy to just open the lines of communication. I'll check with the tag broker for information first, and go from there.

[Swede]

Buglmin understands the New Mexico rules and procedures well. I believe his approach, especially as stated in his last post is very good advise. If I ever got to New Mexico, I can see he would be a go to person for advise on hunting there.

[bowgy]

Lots of the ranches that get landowner tags are at lower elevations where the elk winter and the elk might not be there during the season you are hunting. I'm hunting NM this year I can see on the map that there are some private ranches surrounded by National Forest in the unit and I was wondering the same thing; if they have unit wide tags their property can be hunted but I don't know how to find out who owns those particular properties.

[buglmin]

We used to sell land owner permits for several land owners in NM. I used to use my connections with several bow companies and call manufactures to help sell the permits. We had several companies shoot TV shows and had a great friend shoot a TV show showing a few young girls shooting cow elk on a youth hunt. The relationships we built with the landowners was made through respect and trust.
Not once was game meat given as a show of apprecation, but instead, gift cards to restaruants or Walmart, which was always a hit with the land owners wifes. Many people forget these land owners after hunting season, and for the record, small gifts for Christmas, cards on the holidays, goes a long ways to earning your privilege to hunt and gain information.
Just a quick note...dont over look the public land in your unit. The public land could hold more elk then the private property, which may be the reason why the permits are made unit wide. Does anyone know the unit she bought the permit in?

[buglmin]

A phone call to the local sheriff department or the county courthouse will show ownership of these properties, or a phone call to the F&G department in Santa Fe. Also, the F&G website shows which ranches are unit wide permits and which are private land permis.
Most land owners that are given permits are actually given more rifle permits then archery permits, cause F&G want these animals killed in the winter months, late November and December, when the animals are on their wintering grounds. And the late December hunt can produce some very big bulls. Thats now my favorite time to hunt NM.

[ABQ_Chica]

Thanks for the extra info and the tips about gifts to the landowner outside of hunting season, buglemin. I haven't been able to reach the tag brokers yet. The ranch is only about 4,000 acres, so it may not be worth it, but I thought I should least find out if the terrain looks promising, or if there's a significant source of water on it.

The tag is for Unit 50--tons of public land. I've already scouted a bit in Carson National Forest and in some of the BLM land. And unfortunately, I only have bows, so it's archery season or bust...

[buglmin]

Contact the area F&G officers, tell them what you have, and ask them about the ranch as well. They will have information on the ranch.
4,000 acres is a good size piece of property...take my advice, and watch and see where others are hunting, and how often they are in they areas. People dont hunt the same area over and over without being into elk...Unit 50...refresh my memory. Isnt that south of the highway and kinda west of taos? Let me know, and I might be able to dig some info for you. Also, do you know Mark and Gina from the Archery Shop? Talk to them, they might have some info as well.

[ABQ_Chica]

Too funny, buglemin. I bought the tag from Mark and Gina, and I sometimes help out at the Archery Shoppe.

Yep, Unit 50 is west of Taos, bounded by Colorado to the north; the Rio Grande on the east, Highway 285 for most of the west side, and then it gets all jaggy to the south. If you squint hard it looks like Italy. Mark gave me some spots in the far southern part of the unit to focus on, so that's what I've done so far. Of course, I'm all ears if you have any advice or info, too.

When I scouted in June, I met a few people who live there, and they've been keeping an eye out for things too, letting me know when and where they've seen fresh sign or tracks.

[buglmin]

Give me a few days, and I'll see what I can dig up. Good friend from Farmington killed a nice six there a few years ago over water. Talk to the guy from the Tres Piedras ranger station, if I remember right his name is Francisco. He knows the area pretty good.
Also, do you know how to get ahold of Mike Herrara? He used to own the other archery shop on the southside. If I remember right, he knows that area good. Its been a while since Ive seen and shot with Mark. Him and Gina are good people.

[buglmin]

Another quick thought, get in touch with George Tullman from United States Outfitters there in Taos, he might offer up some information as well. He's offered up some good info from time to time for us.

[ABQ_Chica]

Thanks for the names to contact, buglemin. Mark and Gina have been great--they do a lot for the archery and hunting community here. And when I didn't draw for elk this year, they managed to find a tag in my bargain-basement price range.
I'm hoping to scout each of the next few Fridays. Meanwhile, I hope we keep getting rain... Thanks again for the advice and information.