Gutless Quartering

[NH Hunter]

Hi Guys,

I'm headed out tomorrow for a GMU 36 cow muzzleloader hunt. Last year when I got my cow, I tried gutless quartering.....first time for me. Front shoulders, no problem. It was a snap. Hind quarters gave me fits. I could not locate the ball and socket joint. Is there an easy way to locate the joint when doing gutless? I moved the leg every which way but loose. I wish I had more experience doing gutless. We ended opening up the cow and pulling the guts out to access it from inside, like we always did when doing the traditional method. Any pointers will be appreciated. I would like to make this years cow quicker.

[BRazz]

I would like to make this years cow quicker

I like your confidence for this year...

Hard to explain how to take off the hind quarters without a video. I've never watched it, but Colorado Parks and Wildlife (formerly DOW) had a video on quartering - it may help.

I can tell you that we reach the ball joint from the underside of the leg. Stay close to bones but away from guts. Helps tremendously to have somebody holding the leg out/up while you do your surgery on the butt-cheek end of the hind quarter.

[cnelk]

The ball joint is higher into the ham than you think it is - about 2+ inches
From the birth canal, take your knife and follow the bone around and up to locate it.

[Lefty]

Back quarters will be right up to the guts When lying on their back start at thecrease keeping the gut to one side.
Likley it was further down and to the inside than you were cutting.
You will not be cutting though muscel from the belly side,. You will be seperating muscle

[WapitiTalk1]

Here ya go Gregg. This is a pretty darn good instructional video of what I think you're referring to. You can see for Fred E. access the joint when he's working on the hind quarter. Good luck on your hunt!

[NH Hunter]

Boy, Fred sure makes it look easy. I'm OK with it taking a little longer than Fred. The video skips past the part I wanted to see. He starts cutting and then the ball and socket magically appear. I think I can work through it, though. I just need to persist and not rush it. I'll be sure to post up a picture once I get her down.

Thanks for the replies!

Gregg

[WapitiTalk1]

Here's another option if you wish to eliminate packing out the bones.. This is a very good video by Aron Snyder. It's very similar to the way many folks debon their game using a gutless method.

[Indian Summer]

Boy, Fred sure makes it look easy. I'm OK with it taking a little longer than Fred. The video skips past the part I wanted to see. He starts cutting and then the ball and socket magically appear. I think I can work through it, though. I just need to persist and not rush it. I'll be sure to post up a picture once I get her down.

Thanks for the replies!

Gregg

I thought the same thing. Funny they skipped the part where you have to slow down to find that joint. Here's what I do:

First... he didn't have the backstraps out yet. After I pull the front quarters I remove the backstraps. Then I continue cutting the hide right down the center to the tail, & around the tail all the way under KEEPING EVIDENCE OF SEX INTACT on one side or the other. Then I cut the meat all along the top of the hind as far down to bone as I can. That way when I'm working on the inside I'll eventually come to where it's already been cut instead of struggling to cut meat all the way to the hide and then continue cutting through the hide to finish the task of completely separating it.

Now... start like Fred did cutting the hide in the crease... only slower than he did! lol Once the hide is cut follow that seam like he did and be sure not to cut anything you shouldn't mainly toward the front end of the hind. Now... stay toward the rear and keep your blade right against the flat concave pelvis bone. The muscle will easily separate from the bone. Have a partner pull outward on the leg. That's HUGE! If you are alone tie the leg off from the ankle to a tree putting outward pressure on it. If that's not possible just step over it with one leg and push out with your butt. If you keep following the pelvis you will come to the ball joint. Poke your knife point in between the ball and socket and cut the cartilage. It will come apart REALLY easy at that point as long as you have that pressure applied. Then it's just a matter of cutting more muscle until the leg comes off. You'll be glad you made the cut from above so it goes quick because at that point you're lifting straight up so that no raw flesh touches the ground. Sit it hide down and catch your breath.

The key when learning is to go slow and feel ahead with your fingers like a surgeon. Especially in the front end of the hind where you are near the gut sack. Your fingers will feel where the actual seam is. Then make the cuts slowly keeping an eye on what's going on. That way you can repeat the process and get better at it after a few times.

[NH Hunter]

Thanks for the tips. The cow I got last year piled up in a little group of pines mixed with bunch of thorn bushes so we were getting a little frustrated by the time we were done. We tried to drag her out of there but the only way out was uphill and we couldn't budge her. Hopefully this year it'll die in a nice flat, shady spot near a trail to the bottom. Of course, they never do. Heading to the airport in a couple hours. All packed and ready to go. My duffle is about 42 pounds so I won't get dinged extra for overweight bag. My plane gets in to DIA at a little before 5 so we'll hit the store on the way to my friends house and head out I-70 in the morning. They've had a ton of rain so I expect we will have difficulty getting to our camping spot. It looks like it's going to be a wet week.

[Washington Wapiti]

I like this method a lot, and used it on my elk the week before last. I was talking with a co-worker this morning who has a friend that is a butcher. My co-worker asked him about the gutless method, and the butcher said it wasn't a good idea since the internal organs begin releasing their toxins when the animal dies. So, what do you guys that have used this technique repeatedly think? I don't believe there should be a problem with tainting meat, if you get in there and get it done in a reasonable amount of time. But this is the first time I've done it. And I haven't been able to sample the fruits of my labor yet.

NH Hunter, mine piled up in a nasty, bog from hell that made quartering pretty unbearable. It completely took the wind out of my sails as much of a high as I was on. Here's hoping that your animal drops on a nice flat, shady spot right next to the truck.

[BRazz]

I like this method a lot, and used it on my elk the week before last. I was talking with a co-worker this morning who has a friend that is a butcher. My co-worker asked him about the gutless method, and the butcher said it wasn't a good idea since the internal organs begin releasing their toxins when the animal dies. So, what do you guys that have used this technique repeatedly think? I don't believe there should be a problem with tainting meat, if you get in there and get it done in a reasonable amount of time. But this is the first time I've done it. And I haven't been able to sample the fruits of my labor yet.

I have done this on all of the ~10 of the elk I've killed, and never had problems in the slightest. I believe if the meat is taken off the carcass as soon as possible, and well taken care of after that (dry and cool and clean), then your elk will taste delicious. Once I found a bull the morning after I shot him at last light. The shot was a little too far back and we weren't seeing blood, so we let him be for the evening. We figured the cool air would help us, and bumping him that night would do no good. I'm not sure how long he took to expire, but when we found him at about 7:30 the next morning (~12 hours later) his body was pretty stiff and his gut a little swollen. We used the gutless method on him and the meat was perfect!

So... get the meat off quickly and you'll be in good shape, but that should not mean you move in too quickly and risk bumping an elk before his/her due time.

[Washington Wapiti]

I like this method a lot, and used it on my elk the week before last. I was talking with a co-worker this morning who has a friend that is a butcher. My co-worker asked him about the gutless method, and the butcher said it wasn't a good idea since the internal organs begin releasing their toxins when the animal dies. So, what do you guys that have used this technique repeatedly think? I don't believe there should be a problem with tainting meat, if you get in there and get it done in a reasonable amount of time. But this is the first time I've done it. And I haven't been able to sample the fruits of my labor yet.

I have done this on all of the ~10 of the elk I've killed, and never had problems in the slightest. I believe if the meat is taken off the carcass as soon as possible, and well taken care of after that (dry and cool and clean), then your elk will taste delicious. Once I found a bull the morning after I shot him at last light. The shot was a little too far back and we weren't seeing blood, so we let him be for the evening. We figured the cool air would help us, and bumping him that night would do no good. I'm not sure how long he took to expire, but when we found him at about 7:30 the next morning (~12 hours later) his body was pretty stiff and his gut a little swollen. We used the gutless method on him and the meat was perfect!

So... get the meat off quickly and you'll be in good shape, but that should not mean you move in too quickly and risk bumping an elk before his/her due time.

Awesome, good info . . .thanks Brazz!

[JGH]

y co-worker asked him about the gutless method, and the butcher said it wasn't a good idea since the internal organs begin releasing their toxins when the animal dies.

So ... let me see ... it's better to slice that belly open and, with your hands (the very same hands that will quarter the meat, BTW) tug and pull at bowels, bladder, and other organs?

He makes no sense.

The gutless method is what I do because it is cleaner, easier, faster.

In general, when people use the word "toxins", they are covering for the fact that they have no idea what they are talking about.

Bacteria in the gut do become a problem over time, but without circulation (and let's hope the heart is done pumping at this point), it takes quite a bit of time. Bacteria on the skin and on your very hands can become a problem, too, but it takes quite a bit of time, and that time is slowed even more by refrigeration.

Avoid putting SH*T on the meat, and you'll be fine. The best way to avoid that is to avoid the stuff it's stored in: Guts.

Butchering an animal outdoors is never "sterile", and yet ... it works.

[Washington Wapiti]

y co-worker asked him about the gutless method, and the butcher said it wasn't a good idea since the internal organs begin releasing their toxins when the animal dies.

So ... let me see ... it's better to slice that belly open and, with your hands (the very same hands that will quarter the meat, BTW) tug and pull at bowels, bladder, and other organs?

He makes no sense.

The gutless method is what I do because it is cleaner, easier, faster.

In general, when people use the word "toxins", they are covering for the fact that they have no idea what they are talking about.

Bacteria in the gut do become a problem over time, but without circulation (and let's hope the heart is done pumping at this point), it takes quite a bit of time. Bacteria on the skin and on your very hands can become a problem, too, but it takes quite a bit of time, and that time is slowed even more by refrigeration.

Avoid putting SH*T on the meat, and you'll be fine. The best way to avoid that is to avoid the stuff it's stored in: Guts.

Butchering an animal outdoors is never "sterile", and yet ... it works.

LOL, that was my feeling on it too. I asked him if he wasn't sure he just said that because that is how it has been done traditionally. For elk, I will never do it any other way and most likely will probably use this for deer and other big game as well. It makes no sense to me to screw around with the guts when it is so much more timely and less messy to go gutless. Plus it isn't worth the energy spent either. A big bodied elk can be exhausting to work on as it is, without factoring in the gutting part.

[Indian Summer]

I can have the quarters separated before he can get the guts out. lol

Yeah he's clueless.

[Washington Wapiti]

I can have the quarters separated before he can get the guts out. lol.

LOL...Indeed Joe, indeed!

[>>>---WW---->]

The Fred Eichler video that RJ put up is excellent. I can't do it in 11 minutes per side like Fred does. But I did do one in 16 minures once. It is a very fast way to do an elk by yourself. But be sure to place something on the ground to place the quarters on. Other wise, you'll be picking grass and weeds of the meat no matter how careful you are. Trust me, been there, done that.

Skinning out the quarters before you take them off the carcus is another option. It's all up to you.

[Indian Summer]

Same here WW... I do it like Fred did, hide on. 11 to 16 minutes sounds about right to me depending on a couple things. He made it look like a 3 minute process. One thing for sure... take your time right. Always good to keep a "never get hurt in the hills" mentality.

[NH Hunter]

The Fred Eichler video that RJ put up is excellent. I can't do it in 11 minutes per side like Fred does. But I did do one in 16 minures once. It is a very fast way to do an elk by yourself. But be sure to place something on the ground to place the quarters on. Other wise, you'll be picking grass and weeds of the meat no matter how careful you are. Trust me, been there, done that.

Skinning out the quarters before you take them off the carcus is another option. It's all up to you.

BINGO!

I followed Indian Summers suggestion of taking off the backstraps before doing the hinds and it was way easier and quicker for me. No problem finding the ball and socket this year. I had the first front off before my partner was able to get to my location and he was only a few hundred yards away. One thing we noticed was that our meat was alot dirtier this year. The elk died in a fairly open area in the timber and it had been raining a lot lately. No grass and a fair amount of mud. We used the hide and game bags but we still had a fair amount of dirt on the exposed meat. Next year I'm bringing a piece of 4 mil visqueen to put down on the ground. It shouldn't weigh much and should keep the meat cleaner. What do you use Bill?

Washington Wapiti: She didn't pile up next to the cooler in camp but at least it was pretty flat. I wish I'd drawn a bull tag this year as she was with a nice 6X6. It would've been my biggest bull to date and I had him dead-to-rights (or maybe he had me?) but I was focused on the cow. She was about 65 yds and he was at 40. That's a slam dunk with a MZ. She went 10 yds after the hit and was dead as a doornail. I found the 385g Great Plains under the hide on the off side.

I should add that I didn't even get my jacket or watch bloody. I wasn't trying to stay clean, it just worked out that way with the gutless method. I couldn't believe it.

[Harmy]

I am one who likes to get at certain organs (heart and liver). But I still use the gutless method every time as getting the meat off is number 1 priority for me. Once I have the meat from the legs, straps, brisket, neck, and finally loins off of both sides and in bags I then go back and open the guts and get the heart and liver out. I make this the last job done because it reduces the risk of urine and feces and other gut fluids getting on the meat. If, at this point I happen to release a bunch of nasty stuff then I can simply bail on the heart and liver and have not risked the most important stuff. When I get the heart and liver out I usually give it a quick rinse before dumping into a dedicated 3 gallon ziplock. Of course, this all depends to some degree on the shot. If I know right off that there is a heart shot then I don't usually go for these internals. If it is a lung shot I will go for these two items.

Another thing I find helpful in removing the hind quarters is not to use a broad bladed skinning knife. I much prefer a smaller slender blade for working the hind quarter off or when I forget a saw to cut apart any joints. I use the method described above with tying to a tree or often by putting the leg on my hip and lifting it with my legs as I cut and feeling the seam and spreading the area with my off hand.

I leave the hide on the legs until they are all off so that I can move them to a better and cleaner location to skin the rest of the way for preparation to put in bags. Trash bags work great but only as long as you are on level ground. If on steep hill sides (most of the time it seems) then plastic sucks as everything just slips off. I carry one large canvas rectangular game bag (plus 3 allen bags). This canvase holds the leg when on a hillside and facilitates removal without slipping all over the place.

[Indian Summer]

NH Hunter... Nice! Sounds like you really got it right this time if you stayed clean like that. So glad I could help.

Congrats on the elk too by the way.