Shooting at dusk

[Lonnie]

Tonight I started shooting at dusk for practice. In the past I would never have done this. But I think you need to practice every senerio. Do you guys hunt the evenings when it is getting dark. I shot from 50 yards. I was not impressed with the group when I walked up. All I could see on the full size 3D elk is the tan. What tricks do you guys use or do you just head in to camp for a relaxing beer.

[Lefty]

I sometimes practice late or even with the shop light on. I dont recall ever shooting beyond 20 yards in limited light. I had lasic so sometimes low light it is hard for me to see.
Rifle or bow If I cant see the target Im not shooting.

[WapitiTalk1]

Yes and yes. Good on you for practicing when daylight is fading, oftentimes, it's the wee minutes just before you can't "see" your pins clearly anymore that a shot materializes. I personally check my visibility on my pins constantly in both morning and evening to ensure that I can draw, and, shoot effectively before I move on an elk or throw out that elk sound. I practice and have pins out to 60 yards but in early morning or at sunset, with limited visibility, I'm looking at my max effective range/distance to shoot at 30 or under.

[Swede]

I will shoot as long as there is sufficient light to see my critter clearly. I have a very large hole in my peep and long large fiber optic pins. Most (about 75%) of my elk kills are in the late afternoon or evening.

[Old school]

I had to have cataract surgery at an early age - 47. Since then my night vision is not up to par, especially in the evenings. Early morning I'm ok as light is getting stronger, but in the evening my "last shooting light" is basically at sundown, so I lose those last magical 30 minutes. I'd much prefer to shoot one in the morning or mid-day, just for tracking and processing, etc... I hate blood trailing at night as it puts me at a tremendous disadvantage in not being able to see ahead and you run the risk of bumping an animal that has expired yet...

Just my couple of cents.

--Mitch

[saddlesore]

I don't even shoot with a ML or center fire at dusk.To much chance of losing an elk. Killing an elk isn't all that important to me when I look at the risk. It kind a torques me when I see these hunting shows and guys arrow one at dusk ,then say let's wait until morning to find it.

How many on here have lost an elk shot at dusk? Curious

[Swede]

I have. I looked for it until the wee hours of the morning. I went to bed to get a short amount of sleep and was back in the morning to look for it some more. I did not find it that day either or the next. I have no reason to think darkness was an issue in my case. Certainly tracking at night presents its challenges, but shooting an animal late has its benefits too. It is cooler at night, and there are no insects to deal with.

[saddlesore]

I have. I looked for it until the wee hours of the morning. I went to bed to get a short amount of sleep and was back in the morning to look for it some more. I did not find it that day either or the next. I have no reason to think darkness was an issue in my case. Certainly tracking at night presents its challenges, but shooting an animal late has its benefits too. It is cooler at night, and there are no insects to deal with.

True if you find the animal fairly quick. Not so much when it has lain on the ground when it is 60 degrees or so with the hide on for 6-8 hours

[Indian Summer]

I shot my first archery bull at dusk. It was a perfect shot hitting both lungs at only 20 yards. But elk are tough and he plowed downhill on his last breath and although he only made it about 100 yards we didn't find him until the crack of dawn the next morning. Three of us quartered the bull out and packed it out lickety split. But having an elk lying against the ground with the guts in and the hide on took it's toll and I lost all of the meat. The only shots I will take at last light with confidence now are with a rifle. With a bow an hour before dark I'm just hunting for my game plan for the next morning. Losing that bull was something I'll never forget.

[Swede]

I certainly understand the dilemma of hunting late. In the more arid areas where I am over a water hole about 75% of the critters come in the late afternoon or evening. That late hour is by far the best as far as seeing elk. Pass on the last hour, and you will be known as an old "vegetarian". Certainly that is more pronounced since nearly all of the elk are on the private land by the third day of the season.

[saddlesore]

I shot my first archery bull at dusk. It was a perfect shot hitting both lungs at only 20 yards. But elk are tough and he plowed downhill on his last breath and although he only made it about 100 yards we didn't find him until the crack of dawn the next morning. Three of us quartered the bull out and packed it out lickety split. But having an elk lying against the ground with the guts in and the hide on took it's toll and I lost all of the meat. The only shots I will take at last light with confidence now are with a rifle. With a bow an hour before dark I'm just hunting for my game plan for the next morning. Losing that bull was something I'll never forget.

BINGO.That is what I am trying to tell people

[otcWill]

Between myself and my crew we've shot a lot of elk near last light. Unless we see them go down or are 100% sure it was a great shot (which you usually can't be unless you shoot lighted nocks) we back out and find them the next day. Granted I hunt high country that gets down in the 30s at night even in mid summer.

If I wasn't willing to shoot near last light, I'd likely not hunt the evenings at all due to the fact that I like to give an elk at least 45 minutes if I don't hear/see him go down. I'm always struck by the differing opinions of guys I respect when it comes to elk hunting.

[Elkhunttoo]

I mainly hunt afternoons and evenings, so if it's still legal shooting hours, I'm shooting if it's the animal I'm after and in range.

[Swede]

Confession time here. I don't wait long to go after my elk after shooting in the evening. If I see evidence that the shot was good or am confident I had a good hit, I carefully proceed in recovery mode. To me it is more important to utilize the light than the risk of pushing him away. I have never pushed one away by doing this with one possible exception. I have not found anything magical about the 30 minutes to an hour.
Years ago I shot a bull about 9:00 AM. I waited for 1/2 hour and started looking for my arrow then tracking. Low & behold! The elk was still alive and was looking at me following his blood trail below. I spotted him and backed up and waited awhile. After waiting and hiding my extra gear, I turned back to find him. Now he was gone! He had gotten up out of his bed while I was away and left. At his bed I saw a pool of blood, but nothing else. Tracking was tough as there was no new blood. I went out following a few tracks for about 80 yards, and was searching around with my eyes. Then; I saw him again. He was still standing. I could not believe it. I knew I had a good hit on him. I backed up again but this time I had not been detected. I then slipped in closer in cover and stood behind a Juniper as he was watching in the direction the herd had gone. There he stood, until he very slowly went down for keeps.
Total lapsed time from the shot to the elk expiring was about two hours. That was the worst example I have of a fatally shot elk hanging on. To me it was a spooky experience. When I got over to him I checked and determined he was dead. Just to be sure he did not pull a Lazarus on me, I securely tied his hind legs with some hard rope in my pack.

[saddlesore]

It is amazing how much adrenaline they must put into their system when wounded and then they see you.I have had a to track other guys elk when this happened twice in my life. The couldn't wait that 15 minutes even.One ended up over mile tracking in the snow. It was a front quartering shot,only took out one lung and then it was a gut shot.When we finally saw it,it was laying down with it's head up. Initially it laid down in the first 100 yards.After it saw the hunter, it never laid down again until we found it.

The other one ,again went down at about 150 yards, the hunter wasn't paying attention.The bull saw him, broke down over a mountain side and was 1/2 way up the next mountain before we saw it laying in the snow,but still alive. Again it was a poor shot placement.

Whether it is a an arrow, a round ball or a center fire rifle bullet, once that elk is wounded and dies, the longer it lays with the hide on, guts in, and blood in the cavity, the less desirable the meat is to consume.No one can convince me that an elk that has lain all night, dead, is very good eating. Not taking shots at anyone here, but to do so, makes me believe the horns are worth more than the meat

[Swede]

I fully understand what you are saying Saddlesore. You make a good point that is well worth consideration. In the morning and early afternoon I wait. There are experienced hunters that never wait. They believe letting one bed down slows their death, allows the bleeding to stop, and may allow them to recover. In the AM I have the luxury of having time and daylight on my side. I know this may give more credibility to your argument for forgoing that last hour of the day, but I weigh the risk. I would not take a long or difficult shot in low light. After shooting, I get on the elk much quicker in the evening if I have a good hit.

[saddlesore]

Here are some examples of what I am talking about.

2014, Rifle,,Bull shot at daybreak, processed quickly . No bloating.


2015, Rifle,Bull shot at day break, processed quickly. No bloating



2016,ML Cow shot about 10AM,but it took me 2 hours to find her. She only went about 30 yards, but fell thru some brush ,which I have posted before. Then it took us another hour to clear the brush and drag her far enough to process. Gasses between the hide and meat had already started to build up and there was considerable bloating. It was extremely hard to get the tenderloins out. Finally had to puncture the paunch to get enough clearance. The two previous bulls are considerably better eating. Since I have all three in the freezer yet, or parts of, I can really compare.

[ishy]

I'm hunting till I can't see. I also due most of my shooting at dusk all summer, so I am very aware of my limitations. I want to know what I can and can't do before the season. Not sure I'm understanding the fear of leaving animals overnight-do you not track in the dark? Maybe I missed something....but I think blood is easier at night by a decent flashlight or Bluestar than during the day.

[Elkduds]

...but I think blood is easier at night by a decent flashlight or Bluestar than during the day.

There can be much more to tracking wounded game than blood trailing, and IMO it is far more difficult @ night. Since I'd rather hold my fire than lose or waste game, I remain w those who don't shoot near dark.

Exceptions that might add a few minutes @ dusk to my shooting envelope: good layer of new snow, game that is known to be wounded already, slam-dunk rifle shot to CNS, bright full moon. Saddlesore likess his elk dead, dressed and cooling ASAP for the best flavor and tenderness. As do I.

[Elkhunttoo]

I completely agree that the longer they are out the worse the taste is... I shot a cow a several years ago that like saddlesore only went about 30 yards... we were in fresh snow and I was using center fire at about 120 yards. Not a drop of blood and when I shot elk busted all around her, I knew right where she was standing but with no blood and tracks everywhere I couldn't figure how I missed... she had went around one of those huge trees and then went down right against it.. took us about 4 hours to find her (part due to cleaning out my brothers cow and no blood for mine) and even laying in the snow she still had an off taste

[saddlesore]

I'm hunting till I can't see. I also due most of my shooting at dusk all summer, so I am very aware of my limitations. I want to know what I can and can't do before the season. Not sure I'm understanding the fear of leaving animals overnight-do you not track in the dark? Maybe I missed something....but I think blood is easier at night by a decent flashlight or Bluestar than during the day.

Because sometimes the wound hole seals up from fat or hide and blood trail ceases to exist,or sometimes there i s no blood for 25-50 yards or more because of a high hit and it takes awhile for the body cavity to fill with blood to get high enough for the blood to leak out the wound hole. Whole lot of reasons as to why you can' t find a track in the dark.Hunt long enough and you will encounter them all

[Indian Summer]

I've found elk the next day only to realize I was only 30 yards from them piled up on the other side of a blowdown. The notion that tracking and finding elk isn't harder in the dark has me scratching my head

[saddlesore]

I'm not trying to be some crusty old cranky fart about this. I only want to pass some knowledge along to the younger hunters that I have learned in 50 years chasing elk. Keep shooting at dusk and sooner or later, you will end up finding your elk the next morning with a smell so bad you will want to puke,and the only thing you have to show for it is a decent set of antlers that will remind you the rest of your life that you you screwed up. Unless you are not an ethical hunter ,it will bother you that long.

In all the years,I have lost two elk.I never found them after hours and even a few days searching with friends. I remember those two elk vividly although many other elk I killed and took home,I do not. It is not a matter of IF it will happen but WHEN. Trust me,bragging rights that you filled your elk tag will pale in comparison to your feelings when you do find that elk the next morning or even late into the night when the meat is unfit to eat because it has started to sour.
If it does not bother you,maybe you should not rethink your reason for hunting.

All these TV hunting shows that has the hunter saying,lets back out and wait until morning,never give you the end story of the quality of meat.Ask yourself, if you went into a supermarket and wanted to buy a nice beef steak,and the meat counter clerk told you this beef was killed two days but we let it lay on the ground for 6-8 hours before we gutted and skinned it,would you still want to buy it?

[jmez]

I shoot at dawn and dusk a lot. With little kids, other than weekends, I have to get up and shoot before they get up or after they go to bed. I shoot every morning and try to get a few arrows in at night.

I have no qualms about shooting one in the evening, as long as it is in legal shooting hours, I'll take the shot if presented.

[WapitiTalk1]

I'm not discounting some of the recs given on this thread as they are sound for good reason, dependent on area hunted, prevailing weather, and other factors to consider. Jmez mentioned " I have no qualms about shooting one in the evening, as long as it is in legal shooting hours, I'll take the shot if presented". That's me to the T. If I have a "good" shot at an elk at dusk (or honestly, anytime throughout the day), he's getting an arrow and will die. I'm the guy friends call when they need somebody to help them track something..... I will find it if the hit was a lethal one. Does it make for a long night? Certainly that's all part of the once per year adventure, yes? To date, I have never had meat spoil by shooting them at dusk after over 30 years of doing battle. I have however, had some meat go bad by being a dumb "A" and transporting it in a rig 100 miles w/o proper cooling... that was a spike I killed on the Olympic Peninsula years ago. More of a concern to me (as I get a bit longer in the tooth and a bit more reserved for the lack of a better word) is getting to the dead elk if shot at dusk and getting it processed up IAW the associated terrain I find myself deployed in to prevent my freezer from being robbed by brown bear, wolves, or any other PITA predator that gets on my kill. Just my thoughts and certainly not anything that I push to those who think otherwise.

[TimeOnTarget]

I practice at dusk often. Almost daily in fact. As far as elk go, I shoot when they give me the opportunity, which isn't often

[Indian Summer]

Whether or not you can hit your target at dusk has absolutely zero to do with it. I'm with Saddlesore... elk hunting doesn't means finding them. Quick! The day you smell the smell of a bone soured elk that cannot be eaten is the day you will agree with us. Period. It makes you feel like a criminal.

[Swede]

Whether or not you can hit your target at dusk has absolutely zero to do with it. I'm with Saddlesore... elk hunting doesn't means finding them. Quick! The day you smell the smell of a bone soured elk that cannot be eaten is the day you will agree with us. Period. It makes you feel like a criminal.

I ran into a hunter that had shot a spike in the morning. He did not find it until it was spoiled. So, should we all quit hunting?
The one I described killing and not recovering I shot well before dusk, but since I could not find it all the next day or the following, I do not think the exact time is relevant. Things can and do go wrong at times. I did not feel like "a criminal", but I was saddened and disappointed. I tried to recover the elk, and gave it a diligent effort. I then moved on. I went back to my tree stand.

[Lonnie]

Swede. I think that hunter should have punched his tag. If you shoot a animal and don't find it until it has spoled then you should just punch your tag and chalk it up to a learning experience. But we all know not every is that way. Every animal I take in the field I thank God. For helping me feed my family. In the every changing world we live in I just hope that the younger generation can be taught to have a good heart and do what is write.

[Swede]

Lonnie, if it matters there are others that feel the way you do. I don't apply those standards. I make a solid effort at recovery. I stay with it as long as I have hope of finding a salvageable animal. I don't know when it died or for sure it is dead. The blood trail was short. I was searching. I don't like high risk shots. To me that is unethical so I have my own self imposed limits. If you feel better or it sooths your conscience by punching your tag, by all means do it. Is that your self imposed punishment for an animal that dies in a brushed in depression?
The butcher shop in Burns Oregon has a whole display shelf of old broadheads they have taken out of animals. One time I was there to pick up my meat. I asked if they got more old broadheads out of game or bullets. The butcher said they get a lot more bullets. How would the people that shot that game know if they killed it or not? Did they make high quality shots where something went wrong, or did they shoot a hail Mary equivalent?
It was about five days after I shot the elk that a friend found it when birds revealed its location. I was already back hunting. The information he had was shared as just a matter of fact.

[saddlesore]

When you say there are more bullets found than broadheads ,it might be wise to consider how many more rifle hunters there are than archery hunters. I suspect that the final outcome would be close to even by applying those numbers

[ishy]

Don't get me wrong I'm not promoting leaving elk overnight, but part of my confidence about taking evening shots might be that in the spring we always leave our bears overnight, and have never thought twice about it and never had questionable meat. Spring is cooler, but we have some pretty hot evenings by the end of May around here. We bait so we are taking chip shots for the most part. We are always there just as we are able to see. Another part of our confidence is shooting a two blade broadhead with great penetration. It is extremely rare that we don't have two holes in our animals. That is a huge aid especially if you are shooting a downhill angle. My first bull was a shot at last light on a hot afternoon, but in a cool river bottom. We decided after not finding blood or an arrow that we should back out. We were there at first light, and took a bit to find him (shot 3 blades then and only had one hole). But he ended up being fine.
I think there needs to be a distinction between bad shots and a bad shot due to lack of light. Those are two different subjects, a bad shot will be a hunters worst nightmare and can happen any time for a myriad of reasons.

[Swede]

When you say there are more bullets found than broadheads ,it might be wise to consider how many more rifle hunters there are than archery hunters. I suspect that the final outcome would be close to even by applying those numbers

In all of the units around Burns, the rifle hunting is based on a drawing. Archery hunting is over-the-counter. The total hunter days for each group are pretty close. I do not know if that tells the true story. The rifle seasons are shorter than the one archery season, yet the success rate is slightly better. That suggests rifle hunters are getting more good shots per hunter day. Ultimately it is about which hunters make the most poor shots. I can't say. I have known of some pretty poor representatives in both camps.

[olympushunt]

A lot of good points brought up in this thread. I'm with Rory (and the others that will shoot up to the point I can't see my target) on this. Even some of those that don't (which is fine) they bring up that "magical" 30 minutes before dark. We spend so much time, effort and money why would we miss out on arguably some of the best hunting time there is! I'll take that first and last hour over the 9 to 5 stuff anyday. Granted I have taken bulls in the 9-5 stuff a number of times. But confidence is the key. If you have a defeated attitude....don't try it. The original post was saying how challenging it is to shoot at dusk and arrow groups were opened up. Well...it isn't the bow doing that. The technology we have today GREATLY improves a guys ability to shoot is lower light settings and have rock steady confidence. Otcwill brought up an excellent point. Lighted nocks are extremely helpful!!! And with the technology we have today....darkness really isn't as big of an excuse for recovering an animal as it was 30 years ago. It really isn't. It think that is separate subject from the original post "Shooting at dusk" anyway.
Here is where I limit myself. I have heard...."well I can still see my pins, so I am good to go still." That isn't what we should focus on. It is SEEING the target. Lots of times I can see my pins quite well but that animal in the darkness of timber is hard to pick up excellent vital zone definition. If I can't make out good vital zone definition I'm passing. I can see my pins well and see my arrow flight EXTREMELY well with lighted nocks but if I can't see the airport landing strip....no bueno for me.

[Charina]

Lonnie, if it matters there are others that feel the way you do. I don't apply those standards.
. . .
I don't like high risk shots. To me that is unethical so I have my own self imposed limits.

Sometimes I wish there was a "like" button on this forum. I appreciate this frank POV, and especially the nonjudgmental recognition that middle-ground ethics are generally a personal issue, not one we can expect of others.

I don't loose sleep over that buck I hit in the shoulder with an arrow 21 or 22 years ago, and never recovered. Rain washed out the blood trail as I was following it in the dark. Couldn't find any track or sign then next morning with three of us out there searching. I didn't feel like a criminal. And I didn't punch my tag. I did the best I could, and I realize that crap just happens sometimes. That's life, and I'm ok with it. By golly, I'm out there trying to intentionally kill a living being! Something others find not only unethical, but feel should be criminal in an of itself! I'm sure glad laws don't require us to live up to everyone's ethical expectations of us or hunting would be banned. What I personally find unethical is casting one's own ethical ideals onto others expecting they think and behave as we do/would. Hunting has enough external antagonists to have infighting inside causing divide.

I know that incidental take (non-survival after catch and release) is taken into account in setting fishing quotas/seasons, and believe it is the case with hunting tag numbers as well. F&G departments are taking into account incidental take in an attempt to ensure a sustainable resource is maintained. A lost animal here and there is an unfortunate loss of life from my personal point of view, but in the grand scheme, it's a paltry loss.

[olympushunt]

Lonnie, if it matters there are others that feel the way you do. I don't apply those standards.
. . .
I don't like high risk shots. To me that is unethical so I have my own self imposed limits.

Sometimes I wish there was a "like" button on this forum. I appreciate this frank POV, and especially the nonjudgmental recognition that middle-ground ethics are generally a personal issue, not one we can expect of others.

I don't loose sleep over that buck I hit in the shoulder with an arrow 21 or 22 years ago, and never recovered. Rain washed out the blood trail as I was following it in the dark. Couldn't find any track or sign then next morning with three of us out there searching. I didn't feel like a criminal. And I didn't punch my tag. I did the best I could, and I realize that crap just happens sometimes. That's life, and I'm ok with it. By golly, I'm out there trying to intentionally kill a living being! Something others find not only unethical, but feel should be criminal in an of itself! I'm sure glad laws don't require us to live up to everyone's ethical expectations of us or hunting would be banned. What I personally find unethical is casting one's own ethical ideals onto others expecting they think and behave as we do/would. Hunting has enough external antagonists to have infighting inside causing divide.

I know that incidental take (non-survival after catch and release) is taken into account in setting fishing quotas/seasons, and believe it is the case with hunting tag numbers as well. F&G departments are taking into account incidental take in an attempt to ensure a sustainable resource is maintained. A lost animal here and there is an unfortunate loss of life from my personal point of view, but in the grand scheme, it's a paltry loss.

Well said! That gets an amen from me. Now where is that "Like" button! lol

[Lonnie]

So who has been practicing. It's been fun teaching my daughter. This will be her first year bow hunting.

[saddlesore]

I don't lose any sleep over the few animals I have lost in 50 years, but I sure remember everyone of them whereas there are a lot of elk I have killed and packed out that I don't have clue of remembering except for all the punched tags with blood on them I have kept over the years.

I remember one especially that I didn't even shoot, nor did the other three hunters with me shoot.

Two of us were back in camp and the other two hunters had not come in yet and it was getting on to 10PM .We were getting worried as it was pretty cold and there was about 6" of snow on the ground,so we saddled up and went back out the trail looking for them.

As they were coming back to camp after dark,they crossed a blood trail and decided to g follow it.When we found them , they had already covered about a 1/2 mile.The blood trail went down hill and got out of the snow and we lost it then.

Next morning we were back at it and found the dead elk about a 1/2 mile further on with tiny drops of blood for a trail.Some one had gut shot it and didn't take up the trail. We were going to tag it and salvage the meat,but when we rolled it over it had spoiled and emitted the most putrid smell . Three of us puked our breakfast up. You can't get that smell out of your nose. If you ever shoot an elk late in the evening, can't find it, wait until the morning, and it has spoiled.I guarantee you will never do it again once you smell it.

[tvbrewster]

Good rule of thumb to follow.

Shoot into daylight not into darkness.

[>>>---WW---->]

Legal shooting times are 1/2 hour before sunrise to 1/2 hour after sunset. Abide by the rules and you will have no problem seeing your sights or your target. A Coleman lantern works wonders for blood trailing after dark.

I learned my lesson about leaving them lay over night many years ago.. I dropped a big cow years ago and couldn't find her. So the next morning we returned with horses to find and pack her out. It was cold (15*) and snow on the ground. But still the meat that was on the ground side of her was spoiled.

[BobcatJerry]

Some of my best memories hunting whitetails are the ones that got away (don't have many elk experiences), missed shots or no shots. Without a doubt, the worst memories are the ones where I made a bad shot, or couldn't recover after a good shot, they still make me sick. I hunt a lot of urban areas, sometimes you can't follow your blood due to unfriendly neighbors. Shooting in low light is fine if you are confident of your shot and are willing to put forth the effort to recover the animal. Spoiled meat is a hard pill to swallow. We owe it to the critters we hunt, to finish the job and use it all and do it right. Good thread.

[lamrith]

Yes I shoot in the evening, not only low light but backlight as well which some people never consider. Wind aside, light and shadow are also a factor in your stalk, so you may have to shoot into the sun at times as well as low light. At home the sun sets behind my target, so it is something I am very used to now.