Cooling meat off

[Lonnie]

Ok in my past I have went to the closets​ steam and put my elk meat in to cool off. After learning about the bacteria in the water doesn't mix with the breaking down of the meat I have not done that. Now I buy block ice keep it in the cooler. I have found block ice will last for four to five days. I use the block ice with coolers big enough to hold my elk. Down fall to this is the coolers take up valuable space and ice can cost $25.00 for four days. What are some of the methods that you guys use to keep your elk meat good. As we all know the opening week temperature can cause us to take drastic measures to save our elk meat.

[Swede]

It would seem that if you can get your meat to block ice, you could just take it to a meat locker. That is not always true for every town, but have you looked into that possibility? Some grocery stores will allow game to be hung in their cooler.

[saddlesore]

In ML, I hang the elk in the shade and then over night at least. It has always been back to camp with in 2-3 hours of getting it skinned and quartered.The next day it is 30 miles to town I am back by 11 -12 o'clock and put the elk in two coolers with several blocks of ice in each. I also bring 8 each 1 gallon jugs of ice from home and that gets put in them also.However by the 3rd-4th day in camp,that ice is about 25% gone. If you put the meat in the ice too soon while it is too warm,the ice will melt quickly.An elk won't spoil overnight if it is skinned, quartered immediately and hung out of the sun I always fashion a tarp shade also beside what trees offer. If I am staying until the end of the season or until the other person tags out, I will go back into town for more ice. Yea,it is about $30 for each trip,but a lot cheaper than throwing a spoiled elk out.

Last year,I lucked out.The outfitter I know that is about 2 miles from my camp told me I can put my elk in her walk in cooler. No charge. I packed it straight from the kill site to the cooler.

Rifle season is late October and usually I can hang the quarters in my horse trailer and they will keep 7-8 days.Just the right amount of aging.

BTW, young smaller animals like yearling elk,will spoil faster than older ones. This is why they only age them 3-4days in coolers

[saddlesore]

It would seem that if you can get your meat to block ice, you could just take it to a meat locker. That is not always true for every town, but have you looked into that possibility? Some grocery stores will allow game to be hung in their cooler.

Close to where I hunt they want $25 /day to hang an elk

[Wapiti]

Loonie if you can debone the quarters and get them opened up. This is easily done by following the muscle groups. This will cool the meat faster. Packing it further distances is tougher though as the meat sags in the bags once off the bone. Not really a big deal though.

Cheers

Trav

[Swede]

Partly it depends on how long you need to cool your meat. For a day or two, Travis' method is good enough. For a few more, a cooler with ice will do. If you are talking about going over 4 or 5 days, then a cold storage unit is the best. Before I would pay $25 per day long term for storage, I would have them butcher. $25 per day seems high, but I have not checked that out in the last few years. I know I can leave my elk for weeks in the locker at no charge if I have them butcher. Some have a policy that if you leave it over 30 days, after they notify you it is ready, they are not responsible for it. That has never been an issue for me. It often takes them two weeks to get around to butchering, so I have all season. I am sure other places may have different policies.

[Brendan]

My cooler will still have sufficient ice in it after two weeks. It's a big 160qt cooler - I fill it to the brim and try not to open it much. This is bags of ice, not block. Blocks or frozen gallon bottles would last even longer. If your block ice isn't lasting - sounds like you need a better cooler setup. Temperatures at night 20's - 50's. Daytime temperatures 30's - 70's but mostly clear and sunny (MT & WY in September). It stays inside the back of my truck under a topper.

I try to let the meat hang and cool to ambient, dry out. Then I put the game bags in big contractor bags, press out all the air, seal so water can't get in, and submerge in ice / ice water in the coolers. They stay that way until I finish cutting and wrapping after I get home.

[saddlesore]

Yes, the $25 /day is if you don't have it butchered.However ,the last cow I had butchered cost me $180. That was at least 10 years ago. I can't imagine what it is now

[Charina]

I've never done it myself (never had need to), but have heard others recount sinking the meat in a stream inside a large plastic bag. Only put it in the bag AFTER all body heat has dissipated (you don't want condensation in the bag), and the initial dry 'skin' has formed.

See: EPISODE 18: Meat Care with Aron Snyder — Gritty Bowmen

[Swede]

This is my thought for when you are out for an extended period in hot weather.
Most mountain streams have rocks and larger stones in them. After putting my meat in a game bag, I would set the plastic bag in the stream and carefully place some stones inside. The stones would weigh the plastic bag down some, and would allow air to circulate around the meat above in the game bags. I would assume you are going to get the meat out of there as soon as possible. If you are hunting in the day or taking multiple pack trips, I would check the meat and reposition it occasionally so there is no place breeding bacteria.
It was said, on a previous thread, that putting game in a plastic bag is not a good idea, but God does not send out a generator and refrigerator. He does supply cold streams with rocks in them, and I can supply some plastic bags. The objective is to keep your meat cool and dry. It might require some careful work, but I believe it is usually doable.

[Brendan]

If I have a choice - I'll let it cool down and dry out, but I don't hesitate for a minute to put it in a bag and get it cooled down if I need to. I have put meat in plastic bags and submerged in ice with 10-20 animals now. Sometimes - it has to go in without completely drying out or even cooling down all the way because of the circumstances. Want to know what? It comes out perfect - Every. Single. Time. I've pulled meat out of the freezer treated that way and then vacuum sealed without drying out two years later and it still tastes great...

While I like to hang meat and age it and let it dry, I think it's much more crucial to get it cooled down and 9 times out of 10 I'm hunting in weather where I can't hang it, and I don't have access to a meat locker or refrigerator. I'm always hearing people say "Don't do it." I'm always left wondering if they've ever tried it, or just advocate for what they've always done, or if they're really doing something different than I am. Think about it - we store meat in Ziploc bags or vacuum sealer bags and pretty much everything we buy from the store comes in plastic...

Just make sure you don't use a scented trash bag

[WapitiTalk1]

Good thread! It's a long one, but if you have a chance, watch the Aaron Snyder podcast Charina posted (thanks for doing that)..... it really has some great information and discussion!

[TimeOnTarget]

Ok in my past I have went to the closets​ steam and put my elk meat in to cool off. After learning about the bacteria in the water doesn't mix with the breaking down of the meat I have not done that. Now I buy block ice keep it in the cooler. I have found block ice will last for four to five days. I use the block ice with coolers big enough to hold my elk. Down fall to this is the coolers take up valuable space and ice can cost $25.00 for four days. What are some of the methods that you guys use to keep your elk meat good. As we all know the opening week temperature can cause us to take drastic measures to save our elk meat.

I've always planned on the stream situation if need be. but ive never done it. Can you elaborate on this bacteria not mixing with the meat a little bit for me? Are you talking about aging?

[saddlesore]

If I have a choice - I'll let it cool down and dry out, but I don't hesitate for a minute to put it in a bag and get it cooled down if I need to. I have put meat in plastic bags and submerged in ice with 10-20 animals now. Sometimes - it has to go in without completely drying out or even cooling down all the way because of the circumstances. Want to know what? It comes out perfect - Every. Single. Time. I've pulled meat out of the freezer treated that way and then vacuum sealed without drying out two years later and it still tastes great...

While I like to hang meat and age it and let it dry, I think it's much more crucial to get it cooled down and 9 times out of 10 I'm hunting in weather where I can't hang it, and I don't have access to a meat locker or refrigerator. I'm always hearing people say "Don't do it." I'm always left wondering if they've ever tried it, or just advocate for what they've always done, or if they're really doing something different than I am. Think about it - we store meat in Ziploc bags or vacuum sealer bags and pretty much everything we buy from the store comes in plastic...

Just make sure you don't use a scented trash bag

I thing people are saying,don't put warm meat to store in plastic bags .Good as long as you have enough ice. I won't put meat directly in any water that is not safe to drink.

I put quarters in game bags and when I put it in the panniers,I put it in a garbage bag to keep the blood off the heavy canvas, but it is only in there about an hour until I get it back to camp..Most cases the meat is still warm from body heat.

Where I hunt, a bear will be on it that night so leaving it hang in the field is not an option.

If you put it in a plastic bag when it is warm yet and hang it,you WILL get spoiled meat

[Brendan]

I thing people are saying,don't put warm meat to store in plastic bags .Good as long as you have enough ice. I won't put meat directly in any water that is not safe to drink.

If you put it in a plastic bag when it is warm yet and hang it,you WILL get spoiled meat

Very, very true. Putting it in a plastic bag absolutely REQUIRES you to get it cooled down - either in an ice cold stream or submerged in ice in a cooler. I don't even like to put it on top of the ice in the cooler - it really has to be covered or the temperature can stay higher than you'd expect, even after a couple days.

[Lonnie]

TimeOnTarget. Ok so I'm a wastewater operator and we are always woried about ecoli bacteria. This comes from people and animals doing their business in water. Pee and poo. I have read so books from butchers that says once the animal that you shot dies the bacteria in that animal starts to break down the muscles and other parts. If you reintroduce the meat to other bacteria such as what's in the stream you can mess up the natural bacteria that is breaking down the meat. You can get mold our bone sour. My father in law swears that you should hang a elk no less than 14 days. But I guess that depends on how you process your elk or what you do in the field. I had a friend tell me he hangs branches over a steam and putts the meat over the stream so the cool water breeze will cool the meat. This I would like to try. So keep the comments going every little trick can help. I'm Four hours away from the butcher so I feel that cooling the meat is a must.

[ElkNut1]

Lonnie, what are your specific concerns? Keeping meat at camp for days after the kill or getting them out that same day or next day if needed & to a cooler of sorts? That will have a big part in the best ways to handle your situation!

ElkNut1

[Swede]

I had a friend tell me he hangs branches over a steam and putts the meat over the stream so the cool water breeze will cool the meat.

This could be enough cooling for a short amount of time or in the right place. It could also be 40 or more degrees warmer up in the air on sticks, than it would be down in cold water. The way to know is to stand along the stream in the afternoon, then put your hand in the water.

[Charina]

once the animal that you shot dies the bacteria in that animal starts to break down the muscles and other parts.

Bacteria that cause decomposition do not exist internally in a body. If it did, the animal would soon die of sepsis. The immune system is constantly vigilant to attack and kill any virus or bacteria that may have entered the body, keeping it free from such infections. It's why you can sear a steak and serve it rare without serious concern of illness (but darn well better cook your ground meat thoroughly since surface bacterial have been spread throughout the meat).

It is US that introduces bacterial to the previously sterile meat. Our knife, our hands (that just recently touched it's bacteria-ridden hide [this is why I try to use one set of nitrile gloves to skin, and then switch or go bare handed when working meat]), and any dirt or debris (even the laundered game bags, although to a much lesser degree) that touches the meat introduces bacteria. Submerging the meat in impure water would be another source of contamination that would introduce not only bacterial such as ecoli or salmonella, but other microbes as well, such as protozoa, cryptosporidium, giardia, and other nasties we don't want in our bodies.

All these contamination sources are why you need to cook meat thoroughly. As much as we might try not to, we introduce bacteria that can harm us. So whether the meat is dunked straight into cold water, or handled with sterile surgical gloves to be placed into a game bag, it's going to get contaminated to some level, and why we need to cook it to keep it safe. IMO, the less contamination the better, so I'm more likely to try the plastic bag in stream method than the directly-in-water method. But if I don't have a bag, and the temps are high, I'm dunking it if that is an option. Cooking well will take care of all the nasties from a cold stream just like it will the ones found on your cutting table and knife.

The second factor after introduction of microbes, the topic of this thread, is the temperature of the meat. The colder the meat is, the slower the bacterial reproduction is. So, while you might (very likely) introduce e.coli from the fur to the meat, if you get that meat cooled, the growth of the e.coli is slowed, reducing potential problems to your health later.

Another way to inhibit bacterial growth is desiccation. This is the value of letting the meat hang in the open air for a bit and develop a slight skin. That meat that you just touched and is surface contaminated won't grow bacteria if the surface is dry. Putting it in a plastic bag (long-term) before this point, especially when warm, just gives the surface bacteria ideal conditions to go bonkers growing on the meat.

This is all separate from the matter of enzymatic decomposition - bone sour, gamey taste, etc. The only way to slow that down is, again, to cool the meat - as fast as possible. Think of it like a banana. There are no bacteria inside that sealed banana. It just goes to mush from the fruit breaking down naturally without bacteria. You can eat that brown soggy banana, and it won't make you sick, but it might not be so pleasant. That process happens much faster in meat because of 1) temps, and 2) that meat is full of enzymes that are chemically reactive. Gotta get it below body temp at which those enzymes are active at as soon as possible.

[Lonnie]

Charine well said. Thank you. It's good to hear everyones ideas so I can keep learning. A new trick in the bag is a bonus.

[Swede]

Charina: Well said and worthy of consideration anytime we handle or prepare meat.

[1Elkhunter]

September in S. Central CO can get pretty warm during the afternoons, even at high altitude. On more than one occasion I've had to cool meat in a creek to buy time. I'll hang quarters in a cool/shady spot where and when I can find a breeze... but that sort of depends on where it's laying when it died... within reason. Quarters are skinned and in game bags and I'll also make a few cuts down the length of the quarters to help let the heat escape off of the bone ASAP. Then once they are dried out and cooled off, I'll bone them out back into game bags, pack them to the nearest creek deep enough that I can largely submerge them in. Then while still in the game bags, I'll put them in contractor grade garbage bags and tie them up tight. Then I tie some paracord around the knot and then put the bags in the water in a shady spot and tie them off to overhead branches or from shore, etc. to keep the opening of the bag up out of the water. Everything stays cool and usually dry this way assuming you don't puncture the bear age bag. I've bought myself a good couple of days or more, more the once using this method and it's worked great so far. I usually have 5 individual bags in the water (one per quarter plus loins, backstrap, other lose meat on another) for 5 bags total. This way I don't have too much meat in each bag so that they get COLD all the way to the center very fast.