To sneak, or not to sneak

[Lonnie]

In my past I always was sneaking through the wood trying to be as quiet as I can. Now I don't worry about it as much. I do make noise now, cow calling every now and then, break branches try to sound like elk. I do still sneak around some if needed to be. And yes I am talking about while in the woods hunting elk. I started doing this because I herd that when you are always trying to sneak you are sounding like a predator (wolf, mountain lion). So what do you guys think. Do you agree with this thought, and what are some of the tactics you guys use.

[saddlesore]

I go with the sneak mode. More so I think SLOW mode . Unless you are moving through country that you know there are no elk in. Elk can see you in the timber long before you see them. Breaking branches ,etc., only lets them know where you are.I only cow call on when think I am close to or know there are elk about. I don't liketo advertise my presence.

[Swede]

I'm with Saddlesore on this. Sometimes I can't help but make some noise. Then I will slow down, minimize my sound and cow call every so often assuming I am in the shadows and not seen.
Don't worry about what an elk thinks. They don't think. They can't interpret or analyze. They are idiots with a great nose, excellent ears and a pair of eyes that can detect movement before you are in shooting range. They can also be conditioned to respond to certain situations. I believe God designed them specially to humble and frustrate those more intelligent creatures that would pursue them.

[Roosiebull]

Quiet as possible, I may sound like a predator, likely because I am.

[Indian Summer]

You have eye and ears as well as hands and feet. I find it more productive to use my eyes and ears more than the latter. In other words slow down. No.... even slower than that. Once again I'm on the same page Saddlesore..... if you know your area and are passing through a low percentage area on your way to a good spot then by all means simply cover ground. But if you don't know the area and it look elky it can't hurt to hunt it instead of stomping it.

[WapitiTalk1]

Ya, pretty much

You have eye and ears as well as hands and feet. I find it more productive to use my eyes and ears more than the latter. In other words slow down. No.... even slower than that. Once again I'm on the same page Saddlesore..... if you know your area and are passing through a low percentage area on your way to a good spot then by all means simply cover ground. But if you don't know the area and it look elky it can't hurt to hunt it instead of stomping it.

This (crap, the damn owner of this site needs to get one of those "up" arrow emoji's). Listen and look more than you move (and even smell at pause).... it'll pay dividends. Play the hand you're playing on that hunt, at that time of year.. Still hunting? Stealth mode, place each step, push branches down and out of your way, .... move slow, then slower, listen, look, smell, repeat. Sure, if you're moving across an open basin on a shale trail, you're not gonna be ghost walker but no need to rumble rocks down the hill, have a loud conversation, or fart loudly to amuse the guy behind you. I bet you a dime to 50 cent piece that Saddlesore and Indian Summer have shot many elk that they "heard" before he ever saw them. Yes, its a bit different in calling situations but in a way not... I've cow called my way into elk (and yes, bugled also) in Elktember where Bullwinkle obviously knows where I'm coming from. In relatively quiet terrain (under foot and on the sides), I still try to move pretty quietly but try to move at the speed an elk may. If in closer quarters and the line to the bull is not so quiet, sure I'll be as the saying goes "when in Rome" and crash on in to keep the image going in his head (elk know the terrain they're hanging in and if they hear an elk noise coming their way, said elk is not gonna be low crawling on the ground). Good topic of discussion Lonnie! RJ

[ElkNut1]

As a bowhunter hunting dark timber I move fairly quick until fresh sign is located or I hear a bugle or get one to respond back to my bugle. I want to find them before they see or smell me. I slow down once they are located, before that I move great distances calling as I go with location bugles mostly to locate. I do this about any day of Sept. Depending on the situation & thickness of surroundings I will either call them in once close enough or slip in silently for the kill, wind direction & cover are the deciding factor on which one will provide the best odds. 95% of the time some sort of calling is needed to seal the deal.

As a bowhunter I find calling is my # 1 way to find & kill elk the quickest! In more open sage country I do lots of glassing but it still seems calling has its place there as well, Read The Situation & I adjust to it! If I'm not calling I'm not Elk Hunting!

ElkNut1

[Lonnie]

Thanks guys. Great comments. You know sense I have changed my hunting to being more noisy and sounding like a elk moving through the woods I have had so many elk come in face to face with me and surprise me. I didn't know they were there coming in. This is something I will have to work on refining this year.

[ElkNut1]

Lonnie, one thing that may help you is to stop cow calling as you're walking around looking for elk! When you do this while in search of them it can bring other elk your way in silent mode, this is when you are most likely to bump into each other. If you are going to cow call or something similar do it in a setup fashion & hold tight for 30 minutes before moving on, this should give elk within earshot of your calling to make it your way if they're interested! -- When feeling the need to call in search of elk use a Location Bugle instead, this will allow you to continue to move like a real bull would in search of other elk, look for the bulls that will bugle back & don't be concerned with the ones that may not, you don't know they're there any way! (grin)

ElkNut1

[Roosiebull]

Lonnie, one thing that may help you is to stop cow calling as you're walking around looking for elk! When you do this while in search of them it can bring other elk your way in silent mode, this is when you are most likely to bump into each other. If you are going to cow call or something similar do it in a setup fashion & hold tight for 30 minutes before moving on, this should give elk within earshot of your calling to make it your way if they're interested! -- When feeling the need to call in search of elk use a Location Bugle instead, this will allow you to continue to move like a real bull would in search of other elk, look for the bulls that will bugle back & don't be concerned with the ones that may not, you don't know they're there any way! (grin)

ElkNut1

totally on point.

I think cow calling to cover your ground noise is a very good way to get busted often. if you are unknowingly moving into elk, cow calling will get them paying attention the majority of the time, they will be watching, and they will see you first.

also agree with your first reply, I don't sneak around when there is no elk sign, I cover ground...yes, I have bumped elk this way before, but it's the best way for me to find elk as well. get close, or where you think you are close, slow down a bit, and start using your senses.

I don't start trying to be very sneaky until I am confident i'm pretty close. where my plan varies from most, is once I have located elk, 8 out of 10 times, i'm not making a peep, I am trying to figure out the best way to sneak in and kill the bull.....when it makes sense, I do love calling, and plan to rely on it a bit more this fall with a slightly changed perspective on strategy.

I will admit, a locator bugle has been hugely underutilized by me, and it is a VERY good tool to speed up finding a bull on any given day, especially since I am generally on scene well before daylight listening anyways.

the beauty of elk hunting, is there is always so much room for improvement....the day you think you have it figured out is the day you quit learning as an elk hunter.

[Swede]

As a bowhunter hunting dark timber I move fairly quick until fresh sign is located or I hear a bugle or get one to respond back to my bugle.

I have no idea how many times I have been busted doing just what Elknut advised. It is a frequent mistake. We believe there are no elk around until they go crashing off through the timber. Lone elk and even herds moving your way have not made substantial sign for you to focus on. I have been tempted to turn around and leave an area when all of a sudden there was fresh elk sign everywhere. It seems impossible, but it is actually quite common.
When moving through the timber, stay in the shadows and expect elk anytime. Sure you may not see one right away, but in areas where there is not a herd every half mile, you don't want to mess up when you have a chance. Another common mistake it to believe there are no elk close by and call from out in the open. The time to make noise and move quickly is after the hunt.

[ElkNut1]

swede, that's exactly why I bugle the areas I'm in or going through, it's to avoid bumping elk out in front of me or passing by elk that may be around that I'm unaware of. It's not perfect, sure you may still bump elk accidentally but not a big deal, it's elk hunting. It actually is very rare to bump elk as I call for location, it seems I generally will receive some sort of response opposed to none at all, this is why I do it! (grin) I'm looking for elk that want to bugle back or bugle on their own, I have little interest in sneaking through dark timber in hopes of seeing an elk before it sees me! Covering ground is key to running & gunning for myself & the Crew, we kill our elk every year with this method, I don't think I'm going to fix something that isn't broke! (grin) It's so important to me to find elk before they find me, this gives me the upper hand & now I can put them on the defense with the right method if I cannot slip in silently to put them down.

Seriously speaking, most elk hunters do not call enough or in the right spots therefore they may bump more elk out of an area than guys like myself who call to locate them avoiding the accidental bump! On the flip side you have hunters calling way too much once a bull is located. There's a fine line in Reading A Situation & acting according to a specific encounter!

When it's time to call, sound believable! This is so important on OTC Public Land Elk!

ElkNut1

[Tigger]

The part I struggle with is if I go slow, I cannot cover any ground to speak of. I think this works well in an area you suspect could be holding elk, but you need to find them to hunt them. It is kind of a conundrum!!

[stealthycat]

sneak and soft bugling ... I want to be close to a bull before I bugle - long distance calling never worked well for me

[Swede]

I see what Elknut is doing. He is playing the odds. He does not plan to kill every bull around. He is trying to locate vocal ones and work them.
The others here that hunt a little differently are playing the odds too.
Where I have been hunting it is easy to over call. I think where I plan to hunt with RJ and crew this September, it may be more like where Elknut is hunting. I am hoping to learn a thing or two about elk hunting. There is always more.

Thanks Elknut and others for engaging here.

[Charina]

swede, that's exactly why I bugle the areas I'm in or going through, it's to avoid bumping elk out in front of me or passing by elk that may be around that I'm unaware of.

Paul, do you do that outside of the window when elk are talking? Or, is it as I suspect, only when the bulls are vocal? Its an important distinction to make given the broad range of readers, and that many days will be spent when/where the bulls just don't talk back much, if at all. I can tell you when I have bow in hand for my Aug 19th opener, I won't be bugling as I move. I've never received a response that early when I've tried, and I fear I'd be doing nothing more than giving away my location for bulls to silently sneak in to take a peek, or move downwind of.

Edit to add: I'll bugle early season, but only when doing some cold calling from a strategic location and sitting put to see if anyone sneaks in to take a peek.

[Tigger]

I should have added, especially in new areas. We will be hunting the 3rd new area in the last 3 seasons (thanks WY for not drawing us the last 2 years!). It goes against every semi-active brain cell in my head to not find the elk first like Elk Nut does.

[Swede]

I think Elknut is playing the odds believing it is better to risk busting some elk out than risking a waste of time sneaking over dead ground. We will see what he says. Timing has to be important in this equation. How may elk I want to run off to the ranch has to be taken into consideration too.

[ElkNut1]

Lots of thoughts on how guys are approaching their elk hunts & a lack of aggressiveness? Here's a question for you! Are you killing elk every year or at least calling in or slipping in on multiple bulls every year? If not you need to re-think your strategy! If it's working well then stick with it!

swede, I use what works, simple as that! (grin) Calling is key but it gets a bad rap all over the Internet. Most hunters cow call way too much & do not bugle enough. Bugling is so important to locate elk in areas glassing isn't possible because of the dominant dark timber. You need to find the elk!! I could care less about bumping a group that didn't respond to my calling so I tripped into them, no big deal, go find more! (grin) Once an elk bugles on his own or responds to my bugle it's game on, I only need one or two bugles to get a direction, after that the odds are near 80% I will have him in bowrange. This is on OTC Public land elk.

The key is understanding the mood of the elk, if you do not know how, how do you know what to do next? A single bugle by a bull that may be a lazy bugle from a feeding or bedding area is handled totally different than a defensive bull with a hot cow, two different bulls & two different strategies!

Same applies to hunting those mid Aug elk, bugling at that phase would be low on my list, I'm going to stick with hunting destination areas such as water, wallows, feeding, bedding, trails leading to & from these spots. For myself I'm interested in 5 & 6 point bulls on OTC elk hunts so I do little blind cold calling setups because they simply attract cows & spikes first, why, because there's a lot more of them out there over 5 & 6 point bulls! (grin) Trail Cameras will tell me a lot on these pre-rut times too! My favorite time to hunt elk is from Sept 8th & on!

Here's an example of hunters not calling enough. I hunted a unit last year for the first time, never hunted it in the past & yes a public land hunt. Within one hour of the first morning I had 6 different mature bulls located by bugling, they responded to me, before that I did not hear a single bugle from them first. In the 1st week I heard over 200 bugles, no doubt many were by the same bulls over & over but the point is I was in all sorts of bugling action & passed at least 6 decent bulls looking for bigger! One evening I talked with close to 2 dozen other hunters & between them all they had not heard one bugle in a week, why? They don't call! I asked these guys if they were calling & most said no not hardly at all because it will run the elk the other way! These hunters need to re-think things, they are letting golden opportunities slip through their fingers mainly because of their lack of bugling skills & a lack of confidence! The biggest reason hunters do not bugle is because they know they are not very good so they are intimidated in doing so. -- It's like a golfer who cannot hit his driver worth beans, instead of practicing on the range & working out his issues he shy's away from using it all together, don't be that guy!

The last thing I do when hunting Sept is wait for the bulls to bugle, I will do everything I can to trigger a response from them, this is to avoid tripping into them accidentally or walking past them because I'm slipping through the woods in ninja mode! Heck with that, I let my presence known, I do not think like many others that feel the elk will spook because of intruders, instead I think positive & do my best to convince elk that hear me that I'm one of them. As long as I'm not seen or winded this can work great! My son & I call in & kill bulls every year & so do the other guys in the crew, we took 8 last year, 7 the year before & 7 the year before that, that's 22 bulls in 3 years. All these in units that have a 5.9 archery success rate for a cow or a bull & all OTC. My point is don't be afraid to call, move through the woods fairly quickly but not recklessly, find the elk then hunt them. Let the elk dictate when it's time to slip in silently as terrain allows or to get aggressive & call them to you! Avoid those negative thoughts & think positive!

ElkNut1

[saddlesore]

Paul. Great advice, except when in areas that is heavily concentrated with other hunters that do not know how to call properly and have the bulls so spooked that they go into unhuntable ( to me) areas. Calling does no good when they are on private land and know if they come off, they get shot at.

I do kill elk every year,but for several years now I tend to hunt cows for several reasons. OTC bull hunts in CO are very crowded. Draw units take several preference points to draw and I am too old to wait a few years to hunt and I want to hunt every year . I have killed enough bulls in my life time that I don't need to chase points. I got tired of chewing on tough bull meat.BTW in reference to your 22 bulls.Last year I killed my 51st elk. These were bulls and cows. My biggest bull was a 7x8 taken on public land,but it took me 21 years to draw that tag.

Because of bad right shoulder, I cannot pull a bow back so I hunt muzzle loader.This year,I will pass on a center fire rifle hunt.

[Lonnie]

Elknut1 well said. Thanks

[ElkNut1]

Lonnie, thanks!

Saddlesore, congrats on a fantastic life of elk hunting! I agree with subdued type calling when other hunters are within earshot. We do our best to avoid the crowds & look for small hidy holes void of other hunters, last thing we need is calling in other hunters! (grin) We do hunt the same areas as the hoards, we do this when they are not around such as on weekdays or rougher areas they choose to avoid. Most elk we take are within 2 miles of roads so we are not to far in. Don't get me wrong, we call as smart as possible using selective sounds & volume depending on where we are if not seeing or hearing elk on their own. In most cases we need to fire them up.

Good luck to you on # 52!

ElkNut1