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Strategy?

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Strategy?

Postby Elkhunttoo » 08 07, 2017 •  [Post 1]

What will be your strategy this year?

I mostly get to hunt afternoons because of work schedule. When I get all day I like to run and gun in the mornings and sit in the afternoons and evenings. When I just get the afternoons I like to run and gun a bit unless I have a water hole that I feel gives me my best option
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Re: Strategy?

Postby Swede » 08 07, 2017 •  [Post 2]

I mostly run & gun in my tree stand. I am optimistic there will be some gunning this year by the folks I hunt with.
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Re: Strategy?

Postby RAMMONT » 08 07, 2017 •  [Post 3]

What does "run and gun" mean?

I'm not trying to be flippant, I've never heard that phrase used to describe how a person hunts so I have no idea what you are saying.

Regardless, I'd rather sit in a good position in the morning and watch for animals that are working their way toward bedding or security areas. As the day goes on I'll still hunt toward where I want to be in the evening and then I usually sit again no later than 3 or 4 in the afternoon and stay put until I see something to go after or sunset, whichever occurs first.
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Re: Strategy?

Postby Swede » 08 07, 2017 •  [Post 4]

I may have confused you Rammont. I think it is a dumb expression myself. Running and gunning hardly describes any aspect of bow hunting as I see the term applied. It definitely does not fit to any aspect of tree stand hunting. The term is intended to apply to chasing elk on foot, hoping to get a shot at just one. Surely you get it. Running and gunning? :lol:
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Re: Strategy?

Postby Elkhunttoo » 08 07, 2017 •  [Post 5]

As I was thinking of what running and gunning is in my definition. I was thinking about how bad it truly describes archery hunting but it's just the term I used to save lots of words... but since I'm the one asking the question I guess I should use more words ;)

What I meant by running and gunning--making a plan early in the morning of where I plan to hunt, starting out with the plan but always ready to change the "plan" according to where the elk are heard, seen, or when you run into other hunters. This also includes how I'm going to set up, when I'm going to set up, what style of calling I want to do (advertising, locating, breeding, just cow calls, etc...) So, I guess what I meant is anything I can do to find elk and put one on the ground...

Swede, what % of the elk you kill from tree stands come in the morning?
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Re: Strategy?

Postby Swede » 08 07, 2017 •  [Post 6]

About 25%. The vast majority are shot mid afternoon to just before dark. The last hour of the day is the best.
Elkhunt, I am glad you explained what you meant by running & gunning. The internet is the only place I ever find the term being used. I defined it as I understood it to be intended. Of coarse in usual Swede style, I put a little edge on it.
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Re: Strategy?

Postby WapitiTalk1 » 08 07, 2017 •  [Post 7]

Elkhunttoo wrote:As I was thinking of what running and gunning is in my definition. I was thinking about how bad it truly describes archery hunting but it's just the term I used to save lots of words... but since I'm the one asking the question I guess I should use more words ;)

What I meant by running and gunning--making a plan early in the morning of where I plan to hunt, starting out with the plan but always ready to change the "plan" according to where the elk are heard, seen, or when you run into other hunters. This also includes how I'm going to set up, when I'm going to set up, what style of calling I want to do (advertising, locating, breeding, just cow calls, etc...) So, I guess what I meant is anything I can do to find elk and put one on the ground...

Swede, what % of the elk you kill from tree stands come in the morning?


Yep... It's a broad encompassing term that is quite often used to describe archery hunting ( or ML hunting) during the rut (early SEP thru early/mid OCT) when the cows are coming into estrus and wapiti vocalization (and rut behavior is at it's peak). Locate by either responses to our calling, locating unsolicited vocal elk, and/or locate elk visually during this period from a remote site, and moving towards them using the wind/thermals to get in close enough to invite them home for dinner. It's my favorite way of hunting elk... period. I very well may incorporate some TS hunting into my repertoire this fall as Swede has been kind enough to share a bit of his wisdom on the nuances of how to most effectively deploy this method... To answer your question Elkhunt, I'll be mostly engaged in the run/gun methodology but will quite possibly sprinkle I some TS hunting days this year.. It's gonna be a fun year! RJ
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Re: Strategy?

Postby stringunner » 08 07, 2017 •  [Post 8]

Swede and I hunt the same spots from tree stands, we camptogether when both are there. It's funny because my dad and I are 75% from tree stands in the morning, before 10 am. I have had little opportunity at elk from a stand on an evening hunt.

Swede have you come up with a good explanation to this yet? I think your years doing it are many more than mine so it may just be that you have more data but maybe not?.....
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Re: Strategy?

Postby Swede » 08 07, 2017 •  [Post 9]

I do have a theory on why I get more elk in the afternoon than in the morning. That is when they come around to where I am waiting. Actually I have thought that is when they come to water. It may be that I hunt the canyon closer to their bedding areas and they just get up and come in for a drink then. I also see more in the afternoon/eve up in the canyon north of the boneyard too. I looked it up and I have killed 6 in the morning out of 23 total from my tree stand.
You may be picking up more going to the field in the AM during the early season. I know that does not apply to your 6X6 in the canyon.
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Re: Strategy?

Postby Roosiebull » 08 07, 2017 •  [Post 10]

I always let the situation dictate the strategy, I never know my strategy until I shoot.

Hunting is an improvised activity, once elk are located, I make a plan and act, more often than not, my strategy will change before I commit to it.
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Re: Strategy?

Postby Elkhunttoo » 08 08, 2017 •  [Post 11]

The reason I asked on the morning % Swede is because my family tree stand hunts and has for years. Most of them only sit afternoons and evenings but that is mainly due to work. I know a few years ago I had a camera at a small creek crossing that took pictures of a few really nice bulls (just going by not even watering) around 1-2 in the afternoon. Those are almost the only pictures I have of elk moving at that time
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Re: Strategy?

Postby >>>---WW----> » 08 09, 2017 •  [Post 12]

Rammont brings up a good point. I never have given it much thought. But to me running & gunning means calling or still hunting or covering ground until you get into elk and then the actual hunting begins.

Come to think of it, I have never heard of the expression being used for hunting any other type of animal except elk. :roll: Go figure!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: Strategy?

Postby Swede » 08 09, 2017 •  [Post 13]

WW, have you ever heard the "running & Gunning" term used anywhere other than internet forums? I am thinking it was an individual's term or used in some small area and just got expanded. I have never heard rifle hunters use the term. I would think it would fit better with rifle or muzzle loader hunters than bow hunters. It is just an expression with no real definition other than what we give it.
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Re: Strategy?

Postby ElkNut1 » 08 09, 2017 •  [Post 14]

The term Running & Gunning is not weapon specific. I've used it over 30 years but am sure I heard the phrase from someone else first, don't know where though! (grin) It refers to moving & calling during ones elk hunts to locate huntable elk! In my case I bugle & move until they are located, I do not sneak through the woods at this time instead I move rather quickly in search of vocal bulls. I will cover 1 mile to 10 miles a day as I call & move. This is not done in a setup fashion where a hunter may use a blind/cold calling setup. That is not a run & gun style!

Once elk are found now the hunt or calling is on, all depends on the situation! This method is most likely the best way to consistently take your elk every year! You'd better be in elk shape to hunt this way! (grin)

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Re: Strategy?

Postby Charina » 08 10, 2017 •  [Post 15]

The term was likely borrowed from basketball, where a run & gun strategy is fast-paced offence. Get the ball, get down court fast, and look for the quick opportunities to score. You don't focus on getting a setup for a routine, you go with the flow and the opportunities that present themselves from pushing the ball ahead.
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Re: Strategy?

Postby Swede » 08 10, 2017 •  [Post 16]

Charina wrote:The term was likely borrowed from basketball


Now that makes sense to me. As a person who never played or particularly watched the game of basketball, I would not know that information. I was a runt kid, and when they chose up basketball teams on the playground, I was left standing. An argument ensued about who had to take me. I decided it was best to leave, so I did not get to run and gun.
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Re: Strategy?

Postby Roosiebull » 08 11, 2017 •  [Post 17]

Swede wrote:
Charina wrote:The term was likely borrowed from basketball


Now that makes sense to me. As a person who never played or particularly watched the game of basketball, I would not know that information. I was a runt kid, and when they chose up basketball teams on the playground, I was left standing. An argument ensued about who had to take me. I decided it was best to leave, so I did not get to run and gun.

ever consider the cheer team? :D
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Re: Strategy?

Postby saddlesore » 08 11, 2017 •  [Post 18]

Same here Swede,but I have killed a heck of a lot more elk than those jocks.
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Re: Strategy?

Postby Swede » 08 11, 2017 •  [Post 19]

I am not much of a cheer leader. I am not much of a sports fan either. Not getting to play was no great insult. I had other things to do. You sure don't need to be able to make a jump shot over some 7 footer to be an effective hunter.
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Re: Strategy?

Postby TennMatt » 08 23, 2017 •  [Post 20]

So far I'm only a runner. This is my 3rd season trying for elk in Colorado and we've been rather unsuccessful in locating animals. Our strategy is to keep moving until I am able to locate fresh signs or visually see elk. We will glass if we find a good spot to sit for a snack break.

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Re: Strategy?

Postby RAMMONT » 08 23, 2017 •  [Post 21]

I'm retired military (Marine Corps) and as far as I knew running and gunning was a phrase used to describe what happens when you make contact with the enemy and either you're on the attack and you run toward them and gun them down or you're being overpowered and you're running away and gunning them down, in either case, you're running and gunning. In fact, using a euphemism from military combat for civilian activities irritates me, it's just more hollow, meaningless marketing junk that people use just because it sounds really cool like "break the rules" and "work hard, play hard", and everybody is at "war" with something.

Regardless, I don't believe in the idea of running all over the countryside trying to find elk, most of the time you're just moving the elk away from you rather than seeing what's already in front of you. Hunting is a matter of understanding what an animal needs, finding where and how he accesses those needs, and being there at the right time. If you're moving from one place to another because you're pretty sure that an elk needs to go there is smart but just walking around the mountains aimlessly is a waste of time. Scouting reveals where their needs are and how they get to them. I understand that most hunters only have a few days to scout and hunt but that's why researching maps and such is an absolute necessity, it helps narrow down where you want to scout and then when you get there, rather than just wandering around at breakneck speed, I'd still-hunt. Still-hunting is slow and you wont cover much ground but you'll see a lot more animals - if they're in that area and they will be if you've done your research and scouting well.

A perfect example was last year's elk hunt. My friend came from out of state and he was anxious to get his first Montana elk. We spent the first couple weeks of the season scouting and getting him familiar with the area. During our scouting, we found several small herds. I finally decided on sitting in a draw that had a small creek with grass on the top of a south facing slope that also had heavy trees on the east and north slopes. My friend felt that he'd have better luck walking around the north facing slope of the hilltop to the south of where I sat. He saw lots of sign, heard several elk running through the trees and even smelled them, but by 10 am he was helping get my elk out while he hadn't seen anything that he could shoot at. From scouting, I had seen a small herd with two bulls in it on the grass at the top of my slope the day before and again few days before that. I saw that we had fresh tracks going through the creek bottom toward the slope that I was watching. I also knew that the elk liked to sit in the heavy timber chewing their cud with grass only a few yards away. So I took a chance that if I got to my ambush point early I'd see a late comer walking up that slope to join the herd or to simply get into a security area with access to grass and water.
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Re: Strategy?

Postby Tigger » 08 24, 2017 •  [Post 22]

To me running and gunning is what RJ does. By all accounts, he dons a loincloth, puts his knife between his teeth and a quiver stuffed with arrows over his shoulder. He then runs (barefoot obviously as he has on no clothes but the loincloth) through the woods and shoots at every elk he jumps (and some imaginary elk too, I might add). Got that mental picture in your head yet? It wont go away for a long time! This year he got that new Darton bow as he thinks that will help his success rate. I remain skeptical.
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Re: Strategy?

Postby Elkhunttoo » 08 24, 2017 •  [Post 23]

Tigger wrote:To me running and gunning is what RJ does. By all accounts, he dons a loincloth, puts his knife between his teeth and a quiver stuffed with arrows over his shoulder. He then runs (barefoot obviously as he has on no clothes but the loincloth) through the woods and shoots at every elk he jumps (and some imaginary elk too, I might add). Got that mental picture in your head yet? It wont go away for a long time! This year he got that new Darton bow as he thinks that will help his success rate. I remain skeptical.



I just knew I had seen RJ in Idaho before!!!! He's "that guy"
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Re: Strategy?

Postby WapitiTalk1 » 08 24, 2017 •  [Post 24]

The roughest part of loincloth hunting is the biting insects; I normally cake myself in mud which seems to help quite a bit.
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Re: Strategy?

Postby Elkhunttoo » 08 24, 2017 •  [Post 25]

WapitiTalk1 wrote:The roughest part of loincloth hunting is the biting insects; I normally cake myself in mud which seems to help quite a bit.


No doubt that the mud you use is soaked in elk pee from a wallow!!
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Re: Strategy?

Postby WapitiTalk1 » 08 24, 2017 •  [Post 26]

Elkhunttoo wrote:
WapitiTalk1 wrote:The roughest part of loincloth hunting is the biting insects; I normally cake myself in mud which seems to help quite a bit.


No doubt that the mud you use is soaked in elk pee from a wallow!!


Of course. A good roll in a stinky wallow prior to a commando hunt is a necessary part of the whole event.
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