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Lions, wolves and bears. Oh my!

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Lions, wolves and bears. Oh my!

Postby Steve G » 09 19, 2017 •  [Post 1]

As a general rule I don't worry to much about sharks when I'm in the water, or bears and lions when I'm afield. Some of the new places I am researching for future hunts have grizzlies and some have wolves and I imagine some have both. I have never been in their neck of the woods so they were never a concern to me.

Bears I think know enough about and I can take appropriate precautions to avoid them or deter them if necessary, but I know nothing of wolves and have read very little about them. Should I be concerned about wolves as it regards my safety and if so what measures should a hunter take?
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Re: Lions, wolves and bears. Oh my!

Postby wawhitey » 09 19, 2017 •  [Post 2]

Dont worry about wolves or cats, but carry a sidearm anyway. Ive had several instances where i was very glad to have a good revolver on my hip.
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Re: Lions, wolves and bears. Oh my!

Postby Elkhunttoo » 09 19, 2017 •  [Post 3]

Just my two cents, but in a list of lions, bears, and wolves. If the bears are grizzly bears, my list of things you need to take caution on would be...Grizzly, grizzly, and grizzlies!

The area I currently hunt has wolves, lions and black bears. And my list of things I am always thinking of or worried about are rattle snakes and moose. I honestly forget about wolves, lions, and bears most days but in my one area I never forget about those darn snakes! And when I do let my guard down, I'm usually reminded! Wolves in the wrong situation could be a problem. I know of a guy that had them come up on him while snow shoeing without a gun. Not the predicament I want to be in. Lions protecting a kill can be a problem (someone just posted a few days ago on here about that situation, can't remember who it was right now though).

But grizzlies, they just seem to come packed with a bad attitude. I hunted most of my life in grizzly country and used to not think much about them as a kid but a few years ago a guy that used to share the same camp site as us got mauled and have had a few other things that have changed my opinion. If you hunt grizzly country be sure you have spray/weapon or both.
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Re: Lions, wolves and bears. Oh my!

Postby Roosiebull » 09 19, 2017 •  [Post 4]

wawhitey wrote:Dont worry about wolves or cats, but carry a sidearm anyway. Ive had several instances where i was very glad to have a good revolver on my hip.

good, sound advice.

cannot worry about the local wildlife, I don't carry a sidearm, but I think I would in certain regions, and may even start here. we have lots of kitty cats and bears, very much doubt ever needing a sidearm, but I could picture some situations being more comfortable with a 10mm on my hip.
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Re: Lions, wolves and bears. Oh my!

Postby Roosiebull » 09 19, 2017 •  [Post 5]

Roosiebull wrote:
wawhitey wrote:Dont worry about wolves or cats, but carry a sidearm anyway. Ive had several instances where i was very glad to have a good revolver on my hip.

good, sound advice.

cannot worry about the local wildlife, I don't carry a sidearm, but I think I would in certain regions, and may even start here. we have lots of kitty cats and bears, very much doubt ever needing a sidearm, but I could picture some situations being more comfortable with a 10mm on my hip.


I will add, I have never been around grizz, and imagine my tune would change if I hunted among them. I would probably pack my 500, and shoot it a lot to be good with it ;)
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Re: Lions, wolves and bears. Oh my!

Postby Steve G » 09 19, 2017 •  [Post 6]

Thanks guys. If I am in grizzly country I will carry spray at a minimum and practice grabbing for it etc. so that if the need occurs, it will be more reflexive, than an oh sheite moment. I imagine that if wolves should show up the spray would be just as effective if needed?
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Re: Lions, wolves and bears. Oh my!

Postby olympushunt » 09 20, 2017 •  [Post 7]

Steve G wrote: I imagine that if wolves should show up the spray would be just as effective if needed?


I doubt there is a critter out there that would keep coming with spray hitting them in the face. But personally I'd rather not be so close to have to give them breath freshener. Granted I know it isn't always possible to see them coming from a long ways out.
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Re: Lions, wolves and bears. Oh my!

Postby RAMMONT » 09 20, 2017 •  [Post 8]

You guys seem to think that bear spray is 100% effective at stopping bears -it isn't, as proven by a recent grizzly attack here in Montana
His hunting partner deployed his bear spray, which slowed the bear’s charge. Sommer said he grabbed his canister so quickly that he couldn’t release the safety and he couldn’t afford to look down as the bear closed in. He ran around a tree twice and dropped his bear spray in the process.

Sommer then grabbed his pistol and turned to confront the bear.

“It bit my thigh, ran his claws through my wrist and proceeded to attack my head,” Sommer recalled Tuesday.


And it won't be 100% effective with wolves either.
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Re: Lions, wolves and bears. Oh my!

Postby Roosiebull » 09 20, 2017 •  [Post 9]

RAMMONT wrote:You guys seem to think that bear spray is 100% effective at stopping bears -it isn't, as proven by a recent grizzly attack here in Montana
His hunting partner deployed his bear spray, which slowed the bear’s charge. Sommer said he grabbed his canister so quickly that he couldn’t release the safety and he couldn’t afford to look down as the bear closed in. He ran around a tree twice and dropped his bear spray in the process.

Sommer then grabbed his pistol and turned to confront the bear.

“It bit my thigh, ran his claws through my wrist and proceeded to attack my head,” Sommer recalled Tuesday.


And it won't be 100% effective with wolves either.

I don't think I could personally trust bear spray....but on the other hand, guns are nowhere close to 100% effective either, though I would have a better piece of mind with a gun.

I don't think that guy would have had any better luck with a pistol, his mind froze up in a high stress situation....it wasn't the fault of the spray.

when wolves first hit Oregon, and everyone was panicked (for good reason, they are devastating to game herds) they were talking about wolves like they would kill everyone in the woods....I did some research and it seemed wolves are not historically dangerous to people at all.
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Re: Lions, wolves and bears. Oh my!

Postby Lefty » 09 20, 2017 •  [Post 10]

Every wolf Ive seen was running away after seeing or smelling me, every big cat, they may come take a look see, but they head the other direction too. They arent interested in picking a fight with another predator bigger than they are.
Found out the grizzle my daughter and I saw last year ripped up a fellows arm, the bear just wanted to get past him. Part of the story, 3 fellow with pistols and bear spray, the griz came out of the berries, grabbed the one guys arm; tossed him, and none had time to pull their pistols

Pretty much the way it is
Just my two cents, but in a list of lions, bears, and wolves. If the bears are grizzly bears, my list of things you need to take caution on would be...Grizzly, grizzly, and grizzlies!
The area I currently hunt has wolves, lions and black bears. And my list of things I am always thinking of or worried about are rattle snakes and moose. I honestly forget about wolves, lions, and bears most days but in my one area I never forget about those darn snakes! And when I do let my guard down, I'm usually reminded! Wolves in the wrong situation could be a problem. I know of a guy that had them come up on him while snow shoeing without a gun. Not the predicament I want to be in. Lions protecting a kill can be a problem (someone just posted a few days ago on here about that situation, can't remember who it was right now though).
But grizzlies, they just seem to come packed with a bad attitude. I hunted most of my life in grizzly country and used to not think much about them as a kid but a few years ago a guy that used to share the same camp site as us got mauled and have had a few other things that have changed my opinion. If you hunt grizzly country be sure you have spray/weapon or both.
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Re: Lions, wolves and bears. Oh my!

Postby RAMMONT » 09 20, 2017 •  [Post 11]

Neither spray nor guns are going to stop every bear in its tracks, the idea is to stop the attack, whether that's done by redirecting the bear or stopping it in its tracks isn't important. I always carry both when I'm concerned about grizzly bears, the circumstances will dictate which I deploy. In any case, you usually have so little time to do anything that you'd better have rehearsed your response in your mind and practiced it enough to know that your muscle memory will kick in rather than having to consciously make the effort to aim either a spray or a gun.

The only animals that I worry about are (in order of which I believe has a greater chance of actually attacking me)
1. Moose
2. Mountain Lion
3. Wolves/ coyotes
4. Grizzly bears

Moose are far more prone to attack than any of the other animals, I've had two of them charge me over the years, one in Utah and one here in Montana. On two occasions I've actually had mountain lions track me and only the people with me prevented them from making that final jump (both times were in Arizona). I've also actually had a pack of coyotes threaten me on a hunting trip in Arizona, it was a lean year for them and we had deer hanging in the camp. There were several of us in the camp and we actually had to shoot a few of them to scare the pack away. I live in an area that has grizzly bears and I've only seen one in the last three years and he was running away.
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Re: Lions, wolves and bears. Oh my!

Postby olympushunt » 09 21, 2017 •  [Post 12]

RAMMONT wrote:You guys seem to think that bear spray is 100% effective at stopping bears -it isn't, as proven by a recent grizzly attack here in Montana
His hunting partner deployed his bear spray, which slowed the bear’s charge. Sommer said he grabbed his canister so quickly that he couldn’t release the safety and he couldn’t afford to look down as the bear closed in. He ran around a tree twice and dropped his bear spray in the process.

Sommer then grabbed his pistol and turned to confront the bear.

“It bit my thigh, ran his claws through my wrist and proceeded to attack my head,” Sommer recalled Tuesday.


And it won't be 100% effective with wolves either.


As you guys suggested there are no 100%s in the deterrent department. Unless you are into packing a bazooka. Even those are not 100 percent on the dreaded ManBearPig that are the meanest. Anyway, I stumbled up this when reading about Bear Spray.....

"What can be said for bullets? They don't always thwart an attack. The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service investigated human and bear encounters from 1992 to 2005 and found that people who defended themselves with firearms were injured about 50 percent of the time by the bear. People who used the bear spray escaped injury 98 percent of the time, and the few injuries they suffered were far less severe than those in the gun-toting realm. Why? Because it's difficult to stop a bear with a gun and wounded bears are more likely to become even more aggressive.

Another study was performed by Thomas Smith, a bear biologist from Brigham Young University. After analyzing 20 years of bear incidents, he found that bear spray was effective 92 percent of the time, compared to 67 percent for guns."

From this site if anyone cares to read more:

http://adventure.howstuffworks.com/bear-spray2.htm

Here is my list of in order of likeliness of having an issue in the woods (we don't have grizz in Oregon)
1. People
2. Cougar
3. Wolves
4. Turkeys
5. Bears

I would like to say that in all reality it is ManBearPig that is on top of the list but if I put that as number one I might lose any street cred that I have (if I have any) because some silly folks out there don't believe. It's a shame too. lol
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Re: Lions, wolves and bears. Oh my!

Postby RAMMONT » 09 21, 2017 •  [Post 13]

I disagree with the conclusions from both those studies but then to each his own. If you want to trust spray go ahead, I'll trust my rifle or .454 Casull if I'm actually being attacked. My spray will be used to deter a bear that's getting a little too curious for my comfort.
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Re: Lions, wolves and bears. Oh my!

Postby Lefty » 09 21, 2017 •  [Post 14]

I belive I mentioned this before, A friend killed two big Kodiak brown boars between his outhouse and the kitchen table.
12 gauge with a slit slug.


Moose and people are a bigger worry
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Re: Lions, wolves and bears. Oh my!

Postby cohunter » 09 21, 2017 •  [Post 15]

Rammont, is there a reason you disagree with those two studies? Another study with some hard evidence, perhaps? Just curious.
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Re: Lions, wolves and bears. Oh my!

Postby RAMMONT » 09 21, 2017 •  [Post 16]

cohunter wrote:Rammont, is there a reason you disagree with those two studies? Another study with some hard evidence, perhaps? Just curious.


Yes, as I said, I disagree with their conclusions because I don't agree how they defined a bear attack, but I'd rather not get involved in some discussion that will just degrade into a personal attack rather than a debate on the merits of the issue. I've learned long ago to not bother debating anything on the Internet because it always turns out ugly.
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Re: Lions, wolves and bears. Oh my!

Postby olympushunt » 09 22, 2017 •  [Post 17]

Oh you won't get any argument from me Rammont....I personally agree with you. I just posted that as I found it interesting. I agree with aspects (as you probably do) but still....personally, I feel more comfortable with a gun than peppermint flavored breath spray. I just feel I might as well hose myself down with it and call me a spicy meatball! But, that is just how I feel. It isn't based on personal experience and I pray to the good Lord above I never come on this site and give a personal testimony of which is better. lol Just the report of a gun going off will deter most living creatures, peeps included.
If a grizz is hell bent on me being a snack or they are attacking out of defense then I will feel very impotent with spray....but I probably would also with any side arm I own.
You can show me all the research you want and it is flawed as there are no repeatable "controlled" samples. You are dead on in that regard. I do however think that if there was some way to repeat the attack with the same animal, the exact same variables the spray could COULD be a better. As that article claimed when you are in a national park....it becomes a moot point as you can't pack a gun. I think the point of that article might be to say "Don't feel uncommfy packing spray as it IS effective." But I'm with you Rammont.....I like the boom stick.
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Re: Lions, wolves and bears. Oh my!

Postby Steve G » 09 22, 2017 •  [Post 18]

Thanks for all the responses. At least now I have some idea of much or how little a threat wolves may be.

RAMMONT wrote: you'd better have rehearsed your response in your mind and practiced it enough to know that your muscle memory will kick in rather than having to consciously make the effort to aim either a spray or a gun.


For all the debate, this is by far the most important quote in this whole thread. Any one of us who is consistently successful at placing accurate archery or rifle shots knows that practice is the key, and that doing so while wearing the clothes and gear you are carrying in the field is part of that. Anybody who is concerned enough to carry their deterrent of choice should practice frequently enough to develop an appropriate reaction. And that means learning to drop your bow to grab your spray or gun or burning up a couple canisters of bear spray to get a feel for it that should be done too.
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Re: Lions, wolves and bears. Oh my!

Postby olympushunt » 09 22, 2017 •  [Post 19]

Steve G wrote:Thanks for all the responses. At least now I have some idea of much or how little a threat wolves may be.

RAMMONT wrote: you'd better have rehearsed your response in your mind and practiced it enough to know that your muscle memory will kick in rather than having to consciously make the effort to aim either a spray or a gun.


For all the debate, this is by far the most important quote in this whole thread. Any one of us who is consistently successful at placing accurate archery or rifle shots knows that practice is the key, and that doing so while wearing the clothes and gear you are carrying in the field is part of that. Anybody who is concerned enough to carry their deterrent of choice should practice frequently enough to develop an appropriate reaction. And that means learning to drop your bow to grab your spray or gun or burning up a couple canisters of bear spray to get a feel for it that should be done too.


I totally agree there. A guy really should be ready so muscle memory takes over. Hopefully not sphincter muscles so much though.
I have only had one close call where a cougar thought I was his next snack until I encouraged him to exit stage left. I was surprised how quick I was at setting my bow down (not dropping....that is way to spendy!) unholstering and letting the lead rain parade get underway.
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