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Hunt story & Elk Sound Question

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Hunt story & Elk Sound Question

Postby Bolt » 10 25, 2017 •  [Post 1]

Hi all, I just got back from a hunt in WY, unfortunately my return was without an elk but a great hunt other than the warm weather that shut them down day two until we had to leave.
I will be short and sweet, the day before the opener of rifle season elk were everywhere, I had several elk spotted and had a solid plan for the next morning, so I slipped back to camp and called it a night.
My hunting partner and I were up way before light with a mile hike up steep terrain from our spike camp. As the sun came up we spotted one bull and nine cows on an adjacent slope about 530 yards away, we discussed the shot but opted not to take it as it was a modest bull and opening morning with a difficult recovery (should have taken it as I am comfortable out to 800) never the less I can’t get that opportunity back only a lesson learned.
As that heard slipped away into the timber one bugle rang out from about 7-800 yards away in heavy timber, so I said to myself what the heck, I responded with a cow call, and was shortly responded to by two different bulls. One was the original bull I heard and the second sounded like a less mature bull, (I don’t know this to be true, only the 2nd time elk hunting) for the next 20 minutes I played the situation just as if I were turkey hunting, not being too aggressive on calling and moving away from the two bulls coming in from two different directions. Long story short I ended calling the one of the two bulls into 100 yards for a less than perfect shot opportunity quartering away downhill, I shot and hit the bull hard, I tried to run up to get a second shot, but he had gotten up and ran out of sight before I could get another shot off, I eased down to where he went out of sight and found blood and I backed out for an hour. After we started tracking it was apparent that the bullet never exited but with fresh snow that was melting fast we were able to track for almost a mile, blood would get heavy and then stop. Unfortunately, I had to call off the search when the terrain got to dangerous and slick, it wasn’t worth a turned ankle or broken leg, (not an easy decision to make).

Now for my actual question, after the second bugle from the bull that I ended up shooting, he changed his vocals to a sound I have not heard in any video or on TV. The sound closely mimicked an actual cow, it would start out with a MOOOO and then go into a grunt sound, anyone heard this before and what does it mean?
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Re: Hunt story & Elk Sound Question

Postby ElkNut1 » 10 25, 2017 •  [Post 2]

He was asking for you to come out & over his way, he wanted to see this elk he was communicating with!

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Re: Hunt story & Elk Sound Question

Postby Swede » 10 25, 2017 •  [Post 3]

I have heard the sound you describe. I never thought it had a particular meaning per se. The moo sound was about one to two seconds long. I think it was a location bugle and either his voice or the terrain made the sound seem similar to that of a bovine.
Do you know where you hit him? It sounds like you were pushing the bull. In the future I would suggest backing off when you see bloody spots where the critter stopped, but kept going on. I had a similar situation this year, and after I jumped him once, I left the area and came back several hours later. I found the bull about 20 yards from where I had bumped him. Anyway that has been my observations but there are no guarantees.
When I said the sound had no particular meaning, I was referring to it being a moo as opposed to being a common bugle.
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Re: Hunt story & Elk Sound Question

Postby Bolt » 10 25, 2017 •  [Post 4]

Thanks guys, it’s not a common sound that you hear people describe, even when I googled and looked on YouTube.

Swede, If I had to guess it landed in no man’s land, I’m positive it was high but lower than the spine of course, not a graze because there was no hair or fat at shot site or anywhere else for that matter. I don’t think we pushed him at least for the first half of a mile because he ended up side hilling from where he was shot to the top of a finger, the trail lead right back in front of us across that finger, if we were bumping him he would have walked right by us.

What I think happened was his intestines were stopping blood flow out of the animal and no vital was hit, I should have gone in with him instead of backing out, I would have likely gotten a second shot across that finger. Its only speculation at this point and will take me several weeks to get over…
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Re: Hunt story & Elk Sound Question

Postby cohunter » 10 25, 2017 •  [Post 5]

I've heard this sound frequently but only at close range. How far was he? Also - sometimes elk make the worst bugles in the woods. :D
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Re: Hunt story & Elk Sound Question

Postby ElkNut1 » 10 25, 2017 •  [Post 6]

It's understandable that you had not witnessed the sound in the past since you've only hunted elk twice & most likely as a rifle hunter when most elk have shut down 90% of their calling. I know the sound you are referring too & it was the bull wanting to know where you were, he knew you were close by! Sure he was using it as a locator but not the same as a location bugle, a location bugle is generally used by bulls that do not know where other elk are & their bugle is much higher in tone with & generally no grunts present.

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Re: Hunt story & Elk Sound Question

Postby Bolt » 10 25, 2017 •  [Post 7]

cohunter wrote:I've heard this sound frequently but only at close range. How far was he? Also - sometimes elk make the worst bugles in the woods. :D


Maybe 300 yards when he started.
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Re: Hunt story & Elk Sound Question

Postby >>>---WW----> » 10 25, 2017 •  [Post 8]

Are you sure you didn't hear two separate bulls? Late in the rut or just after it, some bulls are bugled out. They can become so hoarse that many times they can only do a moan or bovine type sound when they try to bugle.
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Re: Hunt story & Elk Sound Question

Postby Bolt » 10 25, 2017 •  [Post 9]

ElkNut1 wrote:It's understandable that you had not witnessed the sound in the past since you've only hunted elk twice & most likely as a rifle hunter when most elk have shut down 90% of their calling. I know the sound you are referring too & it was the bull wanting to know where you were, he knew you were close by! Sure he was using it as a locator but not the same as a location bugle, a location bugle is generally used by bulls that do not know where other elk are & their bugle is much higher in tone with & generally no grunts present.

ElkNut/Paul


If I had known that I would have given him one more call before he entered the small meadow, I was playing it safe as I said, it was my first time even calling to an elk. He literally stepped into view looked, didn't see a cow and was moving on, this happened in less than 5 seconds. I will have to keep this tidbit of information in my back pocket for next time.
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Re: Hunt story & Elk Sound Question

Postby Bolt » 10 25, 2017 •  [Post 10]

>>>---WW----> wrote:Are you sure you didn't hear two separate bulls? Late in the rut or just after it, some bulls are bugled out. They can become so hoarse that many times they can only do a moan or bovine type sound when they try to bugle.


There were two bulls but they were in different locations, almost 100% the one that came in bugled two or three times then changed over to the bovine moan as I will dub it about 300 yards out.
I was actually thinking this guy was hoares when he was coming in, and that he had had a rough season of rutting.
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Re: Hunt story & Elk Sound Question

Postby Swede » 10 25, 2017 •  [Post 11]

I have heard that moo sound before too. In fact I heard it in Idaho this season and we discussed it in camp. I wondered the same thing WW is speculating on. That seems to be a real possibility.
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Re: Hunt story & Elk Sound Question

Postby ElkNut1 » 10 25, 2017 •  [Post 12]

If you go back & reread Bolt's account you will notice that the two bulls he heard bugle were bugles not out of the ordinary! They both responded to his cow calls in an effort to draw the cow (bolt) to them by giving her their position. The bull that most likely came his way was the satellite, he had nothing to defend so he came towards this cow as most satellites do. The other bull most likely had cows so didn't break loose from them to hook up this cow instead he tried calling her to his group. The satellite shows up now aprox 100 yards away & does not see this cow that he had heard 300 yards away he now changes his message from hey I'm over here from his initial bugle to come on over? Two different sounds & two different messages. Basically it was a form of a Round Up Bugle which asks other elk to come over to them! If you would have given soft cow sounds & went right at him he would have allowed you to walk right to him as long as he doesn't see or smell you. In your case you just needed a visual since you had a rifle.

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Re: Hunt story & Elk Sound Question

Postby Swede » 10 25, 2017 •  [Post 13]

A small bull with nine cows in October does not sound like there are any cows coming into estrus. This bull is just hanging out with the girls. It does not sound like either of the other two bulls, was the bull with nine cows. I have seen many lone large bulls early in October, even before the elk rifle season begins. I would not say one of the other bulls had cows or not. Bolt would have to say if he saw any evidence of that. I would agree that the bull coming into the cow calls was interested in the caller. For the sake of discussion, it seems to me that calling one bugle a "round up bugle" is like driving past your headlights. You are going beyond the available information.
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Re: Hunt story & Elk Sound Question

Postby ElkNut1 » 10 26, 2017 •  [Post 14]

swede, I can understand your thoughts as I hear things as this through phone calls & emails where hunters are unsure of what's going on during specific encounters. I wasn't there with bolt but do fall back on 40 years of elk study & hunting elk. I've heard thousands of bugles & called in 100's of bulls in this time frame. I'm fairly certain this bull was doing as nearly all bulls do that cut the distance to a cow he heard & now is in search mode with his eyes, ears & nose for this cow. When they bugle or chuckle at this time they are looking for her & would prefer her to come to them, thus the round up type bugle.

As far as the 2nd bull having cows in Oct & how many it's a fairly good guess this is what was taking place although I have no clue as to the number of cows he may have had. Bulls are still with cows throughout the month, the size of the bull or bulls is generally determined by how heavily hunted the area is. Lots of areas have 5 point or 5X6 bulls that are the herd bull, this is fairly common on OTC public land elk hunts! -- For example Larry from the ElkNut Team took a 5 point bull 2 days ago during his rifle hunt here in ID, there was a smallish 6 point there as well with 6 cows & a spike in the group, these bulls were still bugling as normal. It's common for this type of action to still take place as cows have up to 4 estrus cycles the 3rd being aprox mid Oct. Many bulls have good reason to hang with the cows for this reason!

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Re: Hunt story & Elk Sound Question

Postby Bolt » 10 26, 2017 •  [Post 15]

I think you guys both have valid points and I appreciate your input. I do agree with ElkNut, I think the bull was trying to get me to come to him. The bull that came in was not the bull with 9 cows, I had over 10 minutes of glassing him on the adjacent slope. The bull that was coming in from behind us didn’t have cows, we cut his track on the way in and found where he had been bedded, we trailed him for 200 yards before we backed off due to the wind blowing right where he went into the timber. We then cut across the slope to have the wind in our favor. That’s when we saw the 10 on the (cliff) as they were just entering the timber that’s when the bull I shot bugled, he was clearly in the bottom of the drainage and further out than the bull we had just been watching. I also believe he was by himself, but I cannot verify that, all I know is after the second time I made a series of different cow calls he was committed and covered ground quick, in the 15 to 20 minutes he covered 800 yards and 750 feet of elevation. I will also add that the bull that came in was very mature, he would have gone 300" +
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Re: Hunt story & Elk Sound Question

Postby Swede » 10 26, 2017 •  [Post 16]

To assume that one was a herd bull and the other a satellite is totally speculation. It is driving past your headlights. That information was not given. In your 40 years of studying elk, I am sure you have found lone bulls of all sizes in October and every other month for that matter. To build a whole scenario around no clear information is counter productive. I think neither of the two bulls had cows, but that too is speculation. I think the small bull with the nine cows was the only herd around.
Written while Bolt was posting.
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Re: Hunt story & Elk Sound Question

Postby Swede » 10 26, 2017 •  [Post 17]

ElkNut1 wrote:The bull that most likely came his way was the satellite, he had nothing to defend so he came towards this cow as most satellites do. The other bull most likely had cows so didn't break loose from them to hook up this cow instead he tried calling her to his group.


Bolt wrote:The bull that came in was not the bull with 9 cows,


Bolt wrote:That’s when we saw the 10 on the (cliff) as they were just entering the timber that’s when the bull I shot bugled, he was clearly in the bottom of the drainage and further out than the bull we had just been watching. I also believe he was by himself, but I cannot verify that,


Bolt, It appears you were in a post rut situation and the large bull had left the cows. This is common by mid October. They will still respond to a cow call. Some will come in and check you out. While working out alone for the Forest Service, I have heard bulls bugle and responded with a cow sound made from surveyors plastic ribbon. They will respond.
My thought for rifle hunters is, you can locate bulls and occasionally they will come to cow calls. They will still answer a bugle for well into the Fall. You can use these tools to locate them and then move in. Just be careful as sounding too much like an elk can bring in a two legged critter.
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