Wapiti Talk | Elk Hunting Forum | Elk Hunting Tips
 

Up Coming APP Updates!

Moderators: Swede, Tigger, Lefty, Indian Summer, WapitiTalk1

Up Coming APP Updates!

Postby ElkNut1 » 11 06, 2017 •  [Post 1]

Hey guys, here's an update on the App at present & what's being added to it on December 1st. I will break it down so those of you that have it can compare what you have at present in case you need to download sounds you did not know were available now. Too, for those that have wondered about it here's what's on it & what's up-coming!

You Should Have These!

Video Introduction as to the purpose of the App!

Video On How To Select The Right Mouth Reed 1/2" or 5/8"

Video On Reed Location & How To Make The Various Cow & Bull Sounds

1 - Location Bugle
2 - Challenge Bugle
3 - Advertising Bugle
4 - Round Up Bugle
5 - Lip Bawl Bugle
6 - Grunts
7 - Chuckles
8 - Pants
9 - Growls
10 - Nervous Grunts
11 - Cow/Calf
12 - Excited Cow Mews
13 - Separated Cow/Calf Mews
14 - Cow Whines Heading To A Bull
15 - Contact Buzz

In addition to these is a short video clip on how to make these specific sounds. These videos are separate for each sound. Written content is also there for each sound called "Tips" It first shares the message being sent by the elk & when they use this sound. Then there are options of their use in the form of methods & techniques. You can also click the Audio button & hear these sounds in their specific spot. -- By the way, I also added quite a bit more written content to most of these above sounds that hunters have asked for via emails, they will also be updated Dec 1st! You'll want to check that out!

Here are the updates that will be available Dec 1st. Since we are adding more Cow Sounds we are now separating the Bull Sounds & Cow Sounds. When you open the Menu you will see them separate. This is for ease of navigation! We are also adding more real elk sounds to some of the present elk sounds where needed!

Here Are The New Additions!

1 - Nervous Grunt/Round Up Bugle
2 - Cow Bugles
3 - Alarm Barks
4 - Retreating Cow Calls
5 - Pleading Cow/Calf
6 - Creative Cow Calling
7 - Glunking

Like the other sounds there will be a short video clip per sound on how to make these sounds. As needed there will be the real elk making these sounds on the audio button. There is also the written content on their message & use for each one!

I will add that the this App is 4.99 & a one time purchase, you will not need to renew it yearly! All updates will be free, no extra charges. Once downloaded you do not need cell service to access it! It's available on Android & Apple devices.

I have a meeting & video session on Nov 18 -- Are there any thoughts as to how this is being put together? If any have thoughts on any changes let me know & I will bring them up at the meeting, this is the time I can introduce any other changes! We've already made quite a few from others suggestions since this went live several months ago! Thank You!

p.s. by end of December we will be adding these!

1 - Spike & Cow Tactics
2 - Satellite Bull Tactics
3 - Herd Bull Tactics

These 3 will have tons of written content, I know you'll love these, there's something for everyone! Yes, there's still tons more coming, I'll keep you updated!

ElkNut/Paul
ElkNut1
ElkNut/Paul
 
Posts: 4673
Joined: 05 11, 2012
Location: Idaho

Re: Up Coming APP Updates!

Postby Tigger » 11 06, 2017 •  [Post 2]

the one thing I know I could use more help with is determining if it is a herd bull or a satellite. Or more aptly put, does the bull THINK he is a herd bull or is he resigned to the fact he is a satellite? Then the strategy part. If I hear this....do this. If I hear that....do that. If I hear mama calling me for dinner....better get going. (I actually got that last one down!)
User avatar
Tigger
Rank: An Elk Nut
 
Posts: 2420
Joined: 01 12, 2015
Location: Minnesota

Re: Up Coming APP Updates!

Postby Dorobuta » 11 06, 2017 •  [Post 3]

just went and bought the app for my iPad...


thanks for putting up this thread!
Yes, I am addicted to elk. No, I don't need help, I just need a tag.
Dorobuta
Rank: Calf
 
Posts: 54
Joined: 10 04, 2017
Location: Arizona

Re: Up Coming APP Updates!

Postby ElkNut1 » 11 07, 2017 •  [Post 4]

Thanks guys!

Tigger, herd bulls have cows & satellites do not have cows but desire them! (grin) See that was easy! (grin) Seriously though, I know you are referring to hearing bulls but not seeing them, that's simple enough too! Heck, you can never be 100% sure you can tell what a bull is by some sounds they make. With other sounds it's a no brainier! When unsure go with what type of intensity in his bugle you are hearing! By the way the answer is in the App as well in most of the instructional info we offer. The Playbook is full of it!

Give me one example from this years hunt where you were unsure what the bull was, give details! I'll show you how I'd evaluate itThanks!

ElkNut/Paul
ElkNut1
ElkNut/Paul
 
Posts: 4673
Joined: 05 11, 2012
Location: Idaho

Re: Up Coming APP Updates!

Postby Tigger » 11 07, 2017 •  [Post 5]

Perfect example. We come up to a ridge late afternoon, but still quite a ways until dark. I throw out a locator to the valley below and get a response from 150-200 yards to our right. Just one bugle as a response. I can actually think of a number of times we have experienced this same exact thing. One response.

Now as it turns out, we should have killed this bull. We had our chance. But I hadn't a clue on whether it was a satellite or a herd. I heard the same exact response the year before and it was the exact opposite in terms of what he was.
User avatar
Tigger
Rank: An Elk Nut
 
Posts: 2420
Joined: 01 12, 2015
Location: Minnesota

Re: Up Coming APP Updates!

Postby ElkNut1 » 11 07, 2017 •  [Post 6]

OK, still not enough detail! I realize you received a bugle back, what was it? Was it a similar location bugle? Was it a Lip Bawl Bugle? Was it a Challenge Bugle? Did it have grunts with it? Let me know which one it was, it will tell the story. Thanks!

ElkNut/Paul
ElkNut1
ElkNut/Paul
 
Posts: 4673
Joined: 05 11, 2012
Location: Idaho

Re: Up Coming APP Updates!

Postby Tigger » 11 07, 2017 •  [Post 7]

no grunts or chuckles, no lip bawl. I have a hard time sometimes between challenge and locator as there is nothing obviously different that my pea brain can differentiate. But since it was 150-200 yards away, I was leaning toward just a bugled answer or a locator. Not a challenge.
User avatar
Tigger
Rank: An Elk Nut
 
Posts: 2420
Joined: 01 12, 2015
Location: Minnesota

Re: Up Coming APP Updates!

Postby ElkNut1 » 11 07, 2017 •  [Post 8]

Tigger, thanks bud! What you experienced there is very common throughout the month of Sept. Sure we love when multiple bulls are going ballistic & we can move right it on them & get aggressive! As you are finding out there are many days when bulls are flat lethargic! Those are very killable elk! I've been in the same situation countless times, sure I've screwed up my share but I also have taken or called in those bulls at a very high percentage rate. -- In evaluating the situation quickly once the Lazy Bugle was heard it tells me there's no Hot cow in the vicinity or there would be an aggressive attitude from the bull & most likely other bulls hanging around bugling competitively for this cow. He would have Challenged you to stay back, his Challenge bugle would have a few grunts injected in warning you to stay back. (big difference between a Challenge bugle & a Location bugle in sound) -- Now if you had heard a Lip Bawl bugle this would have been a bull gathering his cows together (yes he has cows) & telling you to stay back or else! It's a good indicator he has a cow nearing estrus thus his defensive attitude!

By reading this situation fairly quick I now know I'm dealing with a bull with or without cows, it could go either way but I know none are coming into estrus so I will play the curiosity card over an aggressive action card to begin with if I cannot slip in silently & take him. -- For grins we will say there's heavy timber with lots of brush littered with downfall so calling is necessary. In this lethargic case it doesn't matter to me if this is a satellite or herd bull I need to play him carefully either way! I know this encounter will take 15 min to an hour before I can get him in. I have to be patient but persistent in my calling strategy to peak his interest!

I have the luxury to either use an Advertising Sequence where a new bull in the area is letting other elk know of his presence. # 2 - I can use a level 1 Breeding Sequence, this is low key, nothing aggressive, YET, this will eventually have the bull slip in silently or he will respond with a subtle round up bugle, when he does I will give him a light challenge bugle, this will show him defensiveness on my part in a small way but still plants the seed of excitement in him that I have a cow worth defending! This is what all bulls are awaiting in Sept. By being patient yet persistent with this type of bull can pay big dividends! With this guy I would continue to slowly work him up & slowly get more & more aggressive with him according to his responses. As you can see in this case it doesn't matter if it's a Satellite or Herd bull.

Reading a bulls attitude no matter the encounter needs to be taken into consideration so the right calling method is employed!

ElkNut/Paul
ElkNut1
ElkNut/Paul
 
Posts: 4673
Joined: 05 11, 2012
Location: Idaho

Re: Up Coming APP Updates!

Postby Tigger » 11 08, 2017 •  [Post 9]

doggone it, you make it sound so easy! It all makes sense when you say it like that. Could you be in my hip pocket next fall? (Yes, I have the app and read the bibl....errr Playbook every year).

Okay, so here were the two scenarios that both apply to this situation and how they played out:

1. 2016. All dark timber. heard that bull answer and off we go cutting the distance. Got close (100 yards) and gave some soft cow calls. Nothing. Then after a while he bugled again on his own. Okay, reposition and cow call. He answered! Just a bugle, nothing else. More cow sounds from me and....he moved away. Okay, reposition. he didn't like cow calls so give him what he wants (I learned that from a guy who wrote a playbook). Locator bugle. He locates back. Time passes. he moves further away. Reposition. Do a light breeding sequence. He bugles twice and is getting closer! Wahoo, how many pounds of cheesy brats should I make out of him...wait, now he is further away. This goes on for 2 hours. Fun, but he never committed. I was with a buddy and he left me and I just kept the dumb beast talking and he had 2 opportunities to shoot him at 40 yards but branches were in the way. Success? Kind of. I couldn't call him in, but we had him at 40 yards twice. That is a win. I could stop him. I could get him to come a wee bit closer but then nothing. By the way, no cows with him.

2. The topography played a major role in this situation. We were on a steep ridge and he was over the other side. We repositioned down the ridge and my brother pops over and sees cows coming from behind a clump of trees at 60 yards. He can shoot that so after he ranges it he gets ready for the bull and the bull pops out at 32 yards. My brother reached for his range finder and the time it took for him to do that the bull turned and trotted to his cows. Should have just shot him. Lesson learned.

What has me confused is both of these bulls sounded exactly the same on the response. One was a herd bull with cows, one was clearly a satellite who hadn't read the playbook.
User avatar
Tigger
Rank: An Elk Nut
 
Posts: 2420
Joined: 01 12, 2015
Location: Minnesota

Re: Up Coming APP Updates!

Postby ElkNut1 » 11 09, 2017 •  [Post 10]

Tigger, thanks! You guys ended up getting fairly close to these bulls by using the needed methods, that's very good, you guys did fine! -- In both cases both bulls tried calling you to themselves this is why they sounded similar, this is especially so with response to your cow calls! Most likely you were hearing a Round Up Bugle, this very commonly used as one elk invites or calls another elk their way. If the real elk does not invite you then it's generally an opposite response by him, simple as that! For example, he calls to the cow with one bugle & warns the bull (when you bugle) to stay away with a short bugle with a grunt or two, sometimes it's just a short abrasive bugle that tells him to stay back. This is why it's so important to understand what you're hearing & what you're saying yourself! To be an effective elk caller you also need to be a good listener those two things are a must. -- Here's a short break down on the message being sent by a specific bulls bugle. Once you know the message you now have a good idea what's being said, you can now respond back if needed that will fit this exact situation. -- First & foremost you need to recognize the sound difference between Bugles!

Location Bugle - A bull responding back to another elk letting them know where they're at! It's also used bulls on the move in search of other elk! It's a non-intimidating bugle!

Challenge Bugle - It's a warning or intimidating bugle to stay back, grunts can precede this bugle or come after the bugle. It's a defensive action bugle & there's a great chance he has cows or is very near ones in estrus, if a bull is at his destination there's a good chance he'll hold his ground & not run!

Lip Bawl Bugle - This bugle is used by bulls that has a harem or by a bull that is urgently calling a cow/cows his way. Again, generally there is a cow present that's nearing estrus! If it's a herd bull calling to his cows because of a nearby bull (You) then there's a good chance he will gather them & run! Your time is short to get over to them & make something happen before they leave!

Advertising Bugle - This bull will bugle every couple of minutes to every 10 - 15 minutes from the same spot with little to no interaction from a bull close by. He's drawing attention to himself in hopes of drawing cows his way that may be in earshot!

Round Up Bugle - This bugle can be heard as a bull calls a cow/cows his way in a social manner. It's also used as one bull can call another bull out to see him so he can size him up! Of course it's generally done when one bull is not familiar with this new bull!


The list goes on with the various sounds Bulls & Cows make! This is what the APP, the DVD's, Sounds By The Elk & Playbook cover. It takes a diligent study of them to be able to break these sounds down & recognize them for what message is being sent. It's not hard but it takes dedication if guys & gals want to be at the top of their game! -- Playing & learning golf is no different. A newcomer to golf may look at the club selection in his golf-bag & throw his hands in the air thinking how does anyone know which club to choose for a specific distance shot! Well, after a few sessions he sees it's really not that tough to choose the right club for an aprox distance, it's called practice & becoming familiar with the game & his clubs! Elk hunting/calling is no different, it's a matter of becoming familiar with the various sounds, once learned you won't forget! (grin)

ElkNut/Paul
ElkNut1
ElkNut/Paul
 
Posts: 4673
Joined: 05 11, 2012
Location: Idaho

Re: Up Coming APP Updates!

Postby Elkhntr08 » 11 21, 2017 •  [Post 11]

Got a new iPhone this weekend and sprang for the app today. Best $4.99 I’ve spent in a long time. With the new job, I’m spending more time on the road, hope Paul doesn’t mind me dragging him all over the country with me.
Elkhntr08
Rank: Herd Bull
 
Posts: 416
Joined: 12 19, 2015

Re: Up Coming APP Updates!

Postby ElkNut1 » 11 22, 2017 •  [Post 12]

Ha Ha, that's how many of us practice & learn! Nothing like behind the wheel & practicing the calling, there's no one to annoy! (grin)

Around first of the year we are installing a New Format! While on any Elk Sound in the App you will be able to Record your own sounds by calling with your mouth reed into your Iphone, You can then listen to yourself & the real Elk or me, your choice, then compare your sounds right there side by side to see where you may need improvement! There will also be a function there while still on the same App page to share your sounds socially if you choose! Damn cool huh! This is ground breaking stuff!(grin) Thank You!

ElkNut/Paul
ElkNut1
ElkNut/Paul
 
Posts: 4673
Joined: 05 11, 2012
Location: Idaho

Re: Up Coming APP Updates!

Postby T.B. » 11 22, 2017 •  [Post 13]

Look forward to the new upgrade Paul. Really an interesting way to learn
T.B.
Rank: Spike
 
Posts: 148
Joined: 06 22, 2015
Location: West Virginia