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Llama Packing

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Llama Packing

Postby CurlyTail » 12 08, 2017 •  [Post 1]

I have become curious about packing with Llamas.

I think they could extend my back country hiking, fishing, and hunting by 10 or 15 years. I already know that I am not a horse guy, but I think I could become a Llama guy.

Could anybody share their experiences with Llamas either positive or negative?
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Re: Llama Packing

Postby elkstalker » 12 08, 2017 •  [Post 2]

I have a friend that packs in for elk roughly 5 miles every year with llamas, his group has good things to say about them. They are low maintenance, however it took a year of trial and error to get used to them. They pack well as long as you don't overload them.
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Re: Llama Packing

Postby saddlesore » 12 08, 2017 •  [Post 3]

I have never used them but they can sure cause a wreck when a horse or mule string encounters them and the horses or mules have never seen one
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Re: Llama Packing

Postby Swede » 12 08, 2017 •  [Post 4]

elkstalker wrote:They pack well as long as you don't overload them.


Me too. I guess we are not alone on that point.
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Re: Llama Packing

Postby MTLongdraw » 12 08, 2017 •  [Post 5]

Curly I'm in the same boat as you. Have you checked out beau baty at wilderness trail llamas? I think he's the guy on llamas and renting them...also check out Randy Newberg hunter on YouTube. He did two different elk hunts this year (wy and az) and used llamas.
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Re: Llama Packing

Postby WapitiTalk1 » 12 08, 2017 •  [Post 6]

How many do you take in?
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Re: Llama Packing

Postby Indian Summer » 12 09, 2017 •  [Post 7]

In my opinion the trade off isn't worth it. They can't carry enough for what it takes to rake care of them. They can barely carry enough food to feed themselves. If they have a purpose it would be to pack my gear in, turn around and go back home. If I killed an elk I'd go get them for the pack out.

I cannot figure out why everyone is so afraid of horses and mules.
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Re: Llama Packing

Postby saddlesore » 12 09, 2017 •  [Post 8]

Indian Summer wrote:I cannot figure out why everyone is so afraid of horses and mules.


Probably because you can get killed with a horse or mule. The llamas only spit at you :lol:
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Re: Llama Packing

Postby Swede » 12 09, 2017 •  [Post 9]

A former co-worker's wife was killed by her horse.
The biggest problem I see is the expense. Unless you have more use for a horse than packing in and out once a year, it would be better to hire a packer and let them keep the critters. When you look at the cost of horses it gets ugly real fast. You need to buy or rent pasture, buy more feed, purchase veterinary supplies and sometimes call the vet, pay for shoeing, buy a horse trailer and license it, purchase tack. Did I mention the cost of feed. There is a reason they say "he eats like a horse."
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Re: Llama Packing

Postby Indian Summer » 12 10, 2017 •  [Post 10]

Swede wrote:A former co-worker's wife was killed by her horse.
The biggest problem I see is the expense. Unless you have more use for a horse than packing in and out once a year, it would be better to hire a packer and let them keep the critters. When you look at the cost of horses it gets ugly real fast. You need to buy or rent pasture, buy more feed, purchase veterinary supplies and sometimes call the vet, pay for shoeing, buy a horse trailer and license it, purchase tack. Did I mention the cost of feed. There is a reason they say "he eats like a horse."


Been there done that. Outfitters who have lots of use for horses don't even own them anymore. We all lease! $350 for a horse delivered with saddle. 1/2 a bale of hay per day also delivered. Boom done.

Year before last I had a group of clients all over 60. They didn't want to babysit horses all week but hung on to the phone number in case. They got a 6 point bull down a little over 6 miles from their camper. Quartered it out hiked back and made the call. Next morning a trailer showed up and dumped off two head with pack saddles and panniers ready to roll. Walked them to the elk, tossed the entire thing on and walked them out no problem. It was so easy that they just lined them up for their entire hunt next time. People are afraid of snakes, heights, and the dark when really there's nothing a little experience won't cure. I used to be afraid of girls until I learned how to handle them. :lol: I'm still no pro but so far none have tried to kill me.

Horses are NOT looking for a chance to kill the guy who feeds them I swear!
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Re: Llama Packing

Postby Swede » 12 10, 2017 •  [Post 11]

I agree I.S. I have no information on the wife that was killed by her horse, but he kicked her in the head. A good hunt in the back country with horses should be a lot of fun, and be productive too. I don't know if I will ever go there, but would enjoy the experience. I sure do not want to deal a lot with horses, and don't have time to play rodeo either. :D
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Re: Llama Packing

Postby saddlesore » 12 10, 2017 •  [Post 12]

They are expensive, not including the initial buying cost,which is the cheap part. It cost me about $1200 per year to keep each mule.I shoe my own,haul my own hay,do my own vaccinations. You can easily add another $1000 per if youdon't do that stuff. Then you have trailer cost, tack cost, etrc..

However,I get to ride mine all year long,do summer pack trips, hunt 2-3 seasons per year.

If you don't do all that,and only want one to hunt then renting is cheaper. Individual public pays about $600 for one horse for a season here. Add cost of grain and certified hay ,about another $100. Most are pretty good mounts,some not so good, but you can't rent them all over. Northern CO it's easy, southern,not so much.

The going rate to have someone pack out an elk this year was $425. Some outfitters won't do it though. Some require you to get the elk out to a trail or camp.Smaller outfits don't have the extra man power or horses hanging around camp.Then you get into archery or ML season where you can't wait 2-3 days for an outfitter to to show up because it is too warm.

Hunting off horses or mules, gives you a ten mile radius to hunt instead of beating yourself to death on foot. At the end of the day,you only have to have enough energy to crawl back on the horse. You might say you can hike ten miles out and ten miles back,but you won't do it for ten days or so.

For me,I would have to stop hunting if I couldn't ride or pack elk on a mule. One thing for sure.The mules make better companions than some guys I have had in camp
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Re: Llama Packing

Postby Swede » 12 10, 2017 •  [Post 13]

I understand horses are a better proposition for a person that has enough land, have a trailer, and all the tack. It is a doable proposition, but what would you advise for a person that lives on a half acre or less, and has no equipment or experience with horses. For most of us even llamas would be impractical, but they are easier to afford. Do they sell good pack Herefords? I could butcher mine after the hunt and call it my elk. :D
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Re: Llama Packing

Postby saddlesore » 12 10, 2017 •  [Post 14]

First, go with someone with experience at least the first time. Rent your horse and be honest with the person you are renting from.
Even with a 1/2 acre and you are permitted, you can have a horse or tow.I did it years ago,but you would have to buy all your hay. I can only run my mules for 3 months during the summer ,and then I have to buy hay.
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Re: Llama Packing

Postby CurlyTail » 12 11, 2017 •  [Post 15]

My understanding is that Llamas can carry about 50lbs per animal. Some a bit more, some a bit less. About like people I would say.

I think they can be rented also, but I'm sure not widely available.

I think I recall that they only need one pound of pelletized feed per day.

I did see those Randy Newberg episodes, and the Llamas were very cool. I think I may take the family on a Llama pack trip to the Wind River Range this summer to get a real taste of llama trekking.
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Re: Llama Packing

Postby tom338 » 12 12, 2017 •  [Post 16]

I rented horses ...once. Not worth it to me. Pain in the azz for sure. Had to drag the one in and then got run over on the way out. rubbed the pannier on every single tree it could. Tied to a tree at night and the darn thing pawed and stomped around all night long. Went into some rough county and there was no way you could take enough hay to keep them satisfied. Spent more time taking care of the horses than hunting. Went this year with no horses, shot my bull 6 miles from the truck, packed it out with my partner. Got a good nights sleep not worrying about the stock, didn't have to get up early and take care of them before or after my hunting day. They are not cheap to rent either, cost of having them trailer to camp get very speedy if you are any distance from whom ever you rent from. Turn the horses out to eat in a meadow and you better keep an eye on them, first thing they do is head back towards the truck. At least with the lamas, from what it hear, they stay in camp with no desire to run back to the truck, eat almost anything so don't have to drag in hay. They might not carry as much but sound much easier to take care of, a huge plus in my book.
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Re: Llama Packing

Postby blackwolf » 12 14, 2017 •  [Post 17]

My wife and I packed 2 llamas 6 miles back into a Montana Wilderness area last Sep. Purpose of trip was 2-fold, first to take my wife to one of the most remote beautiful spots I had ever been, and 2ndly to be in some awesome elk country. I had done 2 similar trips in Idaho 8-1o years ago with my son and it worked out awesome. Each llama can pack about 70lb. On previous trips, the llama outfitter had said we could pack about 100lb per llama for a trip to get meat out and had we gotten one I am sure they would have handled it, they handled 70 with ease and no complaints.
This year was another story, one llama was "built" entirely better and handled 70lb, but the other looked old and worn out, complained and I tried to stay at 60lb or below. This older llama also had a terrible habit of snacking as we went, despite coaxing and this caused his pack to come forward, even when adjusted right, so I would have to take paneer off each side and redo. This was a real pain and tough to do at my age of 63 with worn out shoulders.
We had about 5 days of beautiful backcountry camping on a remote mountain lake but due to the hot weather, i knew it would not work to try and get an elk out soon enough so I enjoyed time with my wife but scouted some but did not hunt. I also was leery of these 2 llamas packing ability if I got one. We enjoyed bugling elk near tent at night but spotted only a wolf in daylight.
Things turned bad when the Fire up near Phillipsburg headed our way without warning and we had to leave amiss smoke and falling ash. We got out to find the area had been closed 2 days earlier and they were sending helicopter in for us if we hadn't made it out that morning.
So llamas can work well if you get the right llamas that are properly trained and strong. I won't be doing it again due to my back and shoulder issues which made the handling of 35lb paniers harder than I should deal with. Also you only need to take a small amount of grain in for each llama as they eat browse, grass etc and are self-sustaining as long as you change their "staked" area a couple time a day or daily in a good feed area.
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Re: Llama Packing

Postby WapitiTalk1 » 12 14, 2017 •  [Post 18]

Rock solid post Jim, thank you. Where ya been mister?
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Re: Llama Packing

Postby saddlesore » 12 14, 2017 •  [Post 19]

tom338 wrote:I rented horses ...once

I get a lot of entertainment every year from first time horse users.I'm sure it is a lot worse than what is written,but once you get the hang of everything, it isn't too bad

Those rental horses have all summer being used by dudes to learn every trick in the book to make one's life miserable and theirs better.
Once a person gets agood horse or mule or two or three and they get accustom to each other, it is whole lot easier
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Re: Llama Packing

Postby tom338 » 12 15, 2017 •  [Post 20]

Saddlesore, it was a nightmare!! I don't own horses but have been around them some. But never one with the attitude the one had. The other one was very easy to work with once he got used to us. The troublesome one actually tried to push my partner off the edge one when we were taking a breather, gave him a shove with his head. Had he gone off the trail it would not have been good. I have never seen a horse walk like this one either, drug its feet and his rear end had more movement than some, I'll leave that to your imagination... That horse had no business being on a mountain trail in my opinion
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Re: Llama Packing

Postby Tigger » 12 15, 2017 •  [Post 21]

Not a fan of horses here either. I have done a couple of trips with them and to me it is really debatable whether the save some work or cause more work. Llamas though.....hmmmm. I would love to do a backcountry trip with my family some time, but to do a pack trip with an outfitter is pretty expensive for 5 of us. So maybe rent llamas and DIY? I could do that!

Horses are a labor of love I think. You are either in all the way or not at all. To someone like me, no way. For someone like Saddlesore, it makes complete sense.
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Re: Llama Packing

Postby CurlyTail » 12 15, 2017 •  [Post 22]

Randy Newberg had an entire podcast about Llamas. Very educational and informative. They had a lot of positive things to say about pack llamas - if you have the right kind of llama. They emphasized that all llamas are not equal. Many are poorly suited for backcountry packing, but if you can obtain proper pack llamas they can be great. Some tidbits I recall are - 2 llamas per person is ideal, his llamas could carry 80 pounds each, llamas are ready to work starting age 5 and continue to works to age 18 or so, age 7 they are fully mature. Cost about 300.00 per year to maintain not including emergencies and accidents. Good llamas cost about 3-5k upfront.

I want to do an overnight excursion with llamas at some point to test the water. Obviously would be a huge commitment.
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Re: Llama Packing

Postby blackwolf » 12 15, 2017 •  [Post 23]

From my 3 trips, I would say 3 llamas per 2 hunters would be ideal but 2 llamas per 2 hunters can work fine if you are using backpacking equip, even with a better, 12lb tent. Of course with 4 llamas per 2 hunters you could probably take camp and an elk out in 1 trip. but that is getting expensive.
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