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Laws need to be changed!! Or just to discuss ( or argue)

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Laws need to be changed!! Or just to discuss ( or argue)

Postby Lefty » 12 09, 2017 •  [Post 1]

Well start with elk hunting regulations What regulations would you like to see changed !!
The old Idaho land owner tags really use to bother me. The quality of habitat didn't matter and the tag could be used off of the property.

Some of the depredation tags here in Idaho seem to be designed to keep farmers happy.

Some baiting laws for all game.

Seasons in wilderness areas why so short?

Lighted nocks

Use of electronics

Hunting the same day as your flight
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Re: Laws need to be changed!! Or just to discuss ( or argue)

Postby saddlesore » 12 09, 2017 •  [Post 2]

I'll probably get flamed for this, but I would like Colorado to change the regs to say archers must wear fluorescent orange when archery hunting during muzzle loader season. If you can't see them it sure is possibility you will take a shot in their direction.It could also alleviate still hunting right into an archers set up.

If you buy your tag on line,you should be able to print it out.If you draw a tag, same thing.

Allow scopes on muzzle loaders in Colorado,even if it restricted to 1x or 2x.

More stringent rules on the number of outfitter permits in each GMU.

Too many FS regs to post here,but there are a lot of idiotic ones
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Re: Laws need to be changed!! Or just to discuss ( or argue)

Postby Swede » 12 09, 2017 •  [Post 3]

I am no bear hunter or really a cougar hunter, but would like to see the prohibition for baiting and using dogs removed.
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Re: Laws need to be changed!! Or just to discuss ( or argue)

Postby Roosiebull » 12 09, 2017 •  [Post 4]

Swede wrote:I am no bear hunter or really a cougar hunter, but would like to see the prohibition for baiting and using dogs removed.

Here here!

I agree, I enjoy hunting both, and it would effect my opportunities, but that would be fine to get the population in check, especially lions.

I would also like less lop tags given, they make a dent in many areas, and land owners just use them to make an extra buck.

I would also like timber companies held to the same standard as us, no trapping bear, running them with dogs, or anything we can't do, I think that would get them on board to help us get hounds back, and they have political pull and money.
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Re: Laws need to be changed!! Or just to discuss ( or argue)

Postby Indian Summer » 12 09, 2017 •  [Post 5]

That's EASY! Allow non residents to hunt wilderness areas in Wyoming!!! Total BS. You can hike, camp and fish in them but no hunting. :evil:
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Re: Laws need to be changed!! Or just to discuss ( or argue)

Postby Timber » 12 09, 2017 •  [Post 6]

Indian Summer wrote:That's EASY! Allow non residents to hunt wilderness areas in Wyoming!!! Total BS. You can hike, camp and fish in them but no hunting. :evil:


I will second this one! It completely ticks me off that a "bird watcher, fisherman, photographer....blah blah blah" but a hunter can not. It is total B.S and not even a fair law! These are all of our land to use(federal). I can NOT believe this holds up in a court!
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Re: Laws need to be changed!! Or just to discuss ( or argue)

Postby >>>---WW----> » 12 10, 2017 •  [Post 7]

Indian Summer wrote:That's EASY! Allow non residents to hunt wilderness areas in Wyoming!!! Total BS. You can hike, camp and fish in them but no hunting. :evil:


Makes you just love the Wyoming outfitters lobby. RIGHT!!!!! :shock: :( :cry: :roll: :roll: :roll:
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Re: Laws need to be changed!! Or just to discuss ( or argue)

Postby Lefty » 12 10, 2017 •  [Post 8]

Indian Summer wrote:That's EASY! Allow non residents to hunt wilderness areas in Wyoming!!! Total BS. You can hike, camp and fish in them but no hunting. :evil:

I had a couple friends that were total elk freaks. They met guiding in Wyoming wilderness and started their own outfit when they both moved to Utah and continued to guide and hunt the Wind Rivers.
even though they were guides they didnt like the law.

I left Washington before the hound and trapping ended. I got my best Washington buddy into the depredation business,..$100 muskrats and nutria :shock: of course its the same for coyotes and beaver too.
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Re: Laws need to be changed!! Or just to discuss ( or argue)

Postby Indian Summer » 12 10, 2017 •  [Post 9]

>>>---WW----> wrote:
Indian Summer wrote:That's EASY! Allow non residents to hunt wilderness areas in Wyoming!!! Total BS. You can hike, camp and fish in them but no hunting. :evil:


Makes you just love the Wyoming outfitters lobby. RIGHT!!!!! :shock: :( :cry: :roll: :roll: :roll:


You have to give them credit for being able to uphold a completely unconstitutional law at this day in age. Goes to show us that some states like Wyoming and Montana can almost be like their own country. "If you don't like it there's the door pardner"
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Re: Laws need to be changed!! Or just to discuss ( or argue)

Postby husky390 » 12 10, 2017 •  [Post 10]

saddlesore wrote:I'll probably get flamed for this, but I would like Colorado to change the regs to say archers must wear fluorescent orange when archery hunting during muzzle loader season. If you can't see them it sure is possibility you will take a shot in their direction.It could also alleviate still hunting right into an archers set up.


Allow scopes on muzzle loaders in Colorado,even if it restricted to 1x or 2x.



Not going to flame you but I don't agree with these.

Why make it a law? You can wear blaze orange if you want, no ones stopping you.



I completely disagree about allowing scopes on front stuffers. It's a primitive hunt and needs to stay that way.


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Re: Laws need to be changed!! Or just to discuss ( or argue)

Postby husky390 » 12 10, 2017 •  [Post 11]

I'd like to see CO adopt the game check in system KS uses and do away with the proof of sex attached to the carcass.


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Re: Laws need to be changed!! Or just to discuss ( or argue)

Postby wawhitey » 12 11, 2017 •  [Post 12]

husky390 wrote:I'd like to see CO adopt the game check in system KS uses and do away with the proof of sex attached to the carcass.


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In washington, any bear is legal. There are no restrictions. Yet the way the law reads, proof of sex must remain attached. Stupid. Also proof of sex must remain attached during any sex deer, elk etc hunts. Why?
Real eyes realize real lies
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Re: Laws need to be changed!! Or just to discuss ( or argue)

Postby Tigger » 12 11, 2017 •  [Post 13]

The Wyoming Wilderness outfitter law is the worst one I have ever come across. If I was going on an outfitted hunt, I would never hire an outfitter in WY because of that law.

I totally agree with Saddlesore on the blaze orange law. Blaze orange has saved a lot of lives and to make it optional is crazy. It doesn't hurt anyone to wear it.
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Re: Laws need to be changed!! Or just to discuss ( or argue)

Postby saddlesore » 12 11, 2017 •  [Post 14]

husky390 wrote:I'd like to see CO adopt the game check in system KS uses and do away with the proof of sex attached to the carcass.


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Totally agree.I recently hunted Nebraska..Other than rifle season, where you must physically check in your kill,,you call it in.No more of this survey crap and then extrapolate how many animals were taken. Get a true count
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Re: Laws need to be changed!! Or just to discuss ( or argue)

Postby scubohuntr » 12 11, 2017 •  [Post 15]

Allow scopes on muzzle loaders in Colorado, even if it restricted to 1x or 2x.


Not a flame, but I'd tend to go the other way on muzzleloaders during muzzleloader seasons. No inlines, no scopes, no sabots. Hunt in the rifle season all you want with an inline or a crossbow. If you want to hunt the primitive seasons, everyone uses primitive equipment. An inline rifle with a scope, using shotgun primers, Pyrodex pellets and a jacketed sabot bullet, just isn't. I'll grudgingly accept minie or REAL-style bullets. For myself, if Montana had a muzzleloader season, I'd be hunting with my percussion Great Plains and patched round balls. Just my opinion, your mileage may vary.

+1 on the goofy proof of sex requirements. How are you supposed to leave proof of sex attached to the carcass when you're packing out boned-out meat?
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Re: Laws need to be changed!! Or just to discuss ( or argue)

Postby saddlesore » 12 11, 2017 •  [Post 16]

scubohuntr wrote:
Allow scopes on muzzle loaders in Colorado, even if it restricted to 1x or 2x.


Not a flame, but I'd tend to go the other way on muzzleloaders during muzzleloader seasons. No inlines, no scopes, no sabots. Hunt in the rifle season all you want with an inline or a crossbow. If you want to hunt the primitive seasons, everyone uses primitive equipment. An inline rifle with a scope, using shotgun primers, Pyrodex pellets and a jacketed sabot bullet, just isn't. I'll grudgingly accept minie or REAL-style bullets. For myself, if Montana had a muzzleloader season, I'd be hunting with my percussion Great Plains and patched round balls. Just my opinion, your mileage may vary.


You might feel differently once age sets in and old eyes see 2-3 open sights at the same time.Colorado offers special permits for certain eye diseases, but not for old eyes that need optical help. Perscription glasses,no matter how good,still only let you see either front sight,, rear sights,or target clearly.

2nd thing. Do you apply the same standard for archery hunters. If you are an archery hunter,do you use long bow, recurve or compound bow? Do you shoot wooden arrows?
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Re: Laws need to be changed!! Or just to discuss ( or argue)

Postby husky390 » 12 11, 2017 •  [Post 17]

Tigger wrote:
I totally agree with Saddlesore on the blaze orange law. Blaze orange has saved a lot of lives and to make it optional is crazy. It doesn't hurt anyone to wear it.


So let's force archery hunters wear blaze orange because of irresponsible front stuffers. Got it.

How about, let's make muzzleloader hunters attend an annual hunter safety course to remind them to verify their target.


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Re: Laws need to be changed!! Or just to discuss ( or argue)

Postby Swede » 12 11, 2017 •  [Post 18]

saddlesore wrote:2nd thing. Do you apply the same standard for archery hunters. If you are an archery hunter, do you use long bow, recurve or compound bow? Do you shoot wooden arrows?


As an older bow hunter, I totally agree with you on this. I do not like the way bow hunting is evolving. I would prefer to restrict things a lot. A recurve bow, with a wooden match taped onto the riser for a sight is about as sophisticated as we need. Wood arrows with glue on broadheads would be fine.

An astigmatism is a pain in the rear alright. I had to deal with one for years. Before eye surgery, I could see three times the elk as anyone else if, I can see any. :D
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Re: Laws need to be changed!! Or just to discuss ( or argue)

Postby Swede » 12 11, 2017 •  [Post 19]

Wouldn't that blaze orange mess up my Optiflop camo? Wouldn't the deer and elk see me then? :lol:
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Re: Laws need to be changed!! Or just to discuss ( or argue)

Postby husky390 » 12 11, 2017 •  [Post 20]

saddlesore wrote:
scubohuntr wrote:
Allow scopes on muzzle loaders in Colorado, even if it restricted to 1x or 2x.


Not a flame, but I'd tend to go the other way on muzzleloaders during muzzleloader seasons. No inlines, no scopes, no sabots. Hunt in the rifle season all you want with an inline or a crossbow. If you want to hunt the primitive seasons, everyone uses primitive equipment. An inline rifle with a scope, using shotgun primers, Pyrodex pellets and a jacketed sabot bullet, just isn't. I'll grudgingly accept minie or REAL-style bullets. For myself, if Montana had a muzzleloader season, I'd be hunting with my percussion Great Plains and patched round balls. Just my opinion, your mileage may vary.


You might feel differently once age sets in and old eyes see 2-3 open sights at the same time.Colorado offers special permits for certain eye diseases, but not for old eyes that need optical help. Perscription glasses,no matter how good,still only let you see either front sight,, rear sights,or target clearly.

2nd thing. Do you apply the same standard for archery hunters. If you are an archery hunter,do you use long bow, recurve or compound bow? Do you shoot wooden arrows?


I'm sorry for your eye condition but I still agree with scubohunter that it needs to remain primitive. Unless they move muzzleloader to its own separate season. Then I don't care.




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Re: Laws need to be changed!! Or just to discuss ( or argue)

Postby saddlesore » 12 11, 2017 •  [Post 21]

husky390 wrote:
saddlesore wrote:
scubohuntr wrote:
Allow scopes on muzzle loaders in Colorado, even if it restricted to 1x or 2x.


Not a flame, but I'd tend to go the other way on muzzleloaders during muzzleloader seasons. No inlines, no scopes, no sabots. Hunt in the rifle season all you want with an inline or a crossbow. If you want to hunt the primitive seasons, everyone uses primitive equipment. An inline rifle with a scope, using shotgun primers, Pyrodex pellets and a jacketed sabot bullet, just isn't. I'll grudgingly accept minie or REAL-style bullets. For myself, if Montana had a muzzleloader season, I'd be hunting with my percussion Great Plains and patched round balls. Just my opinion, your mileage may vary.


You might feel differently once age sets in and old eyes see 2-3 open sights at the same time.Colorado offers special permits for certain eye diseases, but not for old eyes that need optical help. Perscription glasses,no matter how good,still only let you see either front sight,, rear sights,or target clearly.


2nd thing. Do you apply the same standard for archery hunters. If you are an archery hunter,do you use long bow, recurve or compound bow? Do you shoot wooden arrows?


I'm sorry for your eye condition but I still agree with scubohunter that it needs to remain primitive. Unless they move muzzleloader to its own separate season. Then I don't care.

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So I need to quit ML hunting because I can't focus on sights very well now.How would making ML season a separate season help with eye problems?. That is kinda an elitetis position isn't it? " I am ok but he shouldn't be able to hunt because he can't see as well"
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Re: Laws need to be changed!! Or just to discuss ( or argue)

Postby saddlesore » 12 11, 2017 •  [Post 22]

husky390 wrote:So let's force archery hunters wear blaze orange because of irresponsible front stuffers. Got it.
How about, let's make muzzleloader hunters attend an annual hunter safety course to remind them to verify their target.
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How about we cut archery season to the last two weeks of Sept and have the ML season the same as it is now so you don't have to worry about me shooting you.

The whole safety thing is assinine that you mention.First rule is to insure you have a safe back stop.I can't insure that if I can't see you hiding. I also can't see you if I am still hunting and run into your set up ruining my hunt or your hunt. That is a cheap shot calling front stuffers irresponsible and you know it.
It's pretty well proven that camo is not all that necessary.

If the biggest bull elk I have ever seen steps out at 30 yards, and I can see a hunter with orange on 100-150 yards in back of it,I would not take the shot. If he is in full camo, I would have no way of knowing that and probably take the shot. How is that irresponsible. Seems to me the hunter not making him self visiable in a firearm season of any sort is the irresponsible one.
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Re: Laws need to be changed!! Or just to discuss ( or argue)

Postby WapitiTalk1 » 12 11, 2017 •  [Post 23]

I thought the wearing of blaze orange when archery and longer range weapon season(s) overlap is already mandatory? I know it is in WA (perhaps not in other states?). I personally wouldn't want to crawl around with my bow, perhaps making elk sounds, when there are other hunters in the area with longer range weapons. I have something like this buried in my gear boxes for just this purpose. It serves the "hey, I'm not a critter" purpose, and, soothes my meager camo helps my cause mind :D.

645640_ts.jpg
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Re: Laws need to be changed!! Or just to discuss ( or argue)

Postby husky390 » 12 11, 2017 •  [Post 24]

WapitiTalk1 wrote:I thought the wearing of blaze orange when archery and longer range weapon season(s) overlap is already mandatory? I know it is in WA (perhaps not in other states?). I personally wouldn't want to crawl around with my bow, perhaps making elk sounds, when there are other hunters in the area with longer range weapons. I have something like this buried in my gear boxes for just this purpose. It serves the "hey, I'm not a critter" purpose, and, soothes my meager camo helps my cause mind :D.

645640_ts.jpg


It's not required for archery hunters in CO to wear blaze orange during muzzle loader season at this time. But, a teenage archery hunter was shot and killed by a muzzleloader hunter about two years ago and now it's being debated on what to do, if anything.


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Re: Laws need to be changed!! Or just to discuss ( or argue)

Postby scubohuntr » 12 11, 2017 •  [Post 25]

saddlesore wrote:
husky390 wrote:
saddlesore wrote:
scubohuntr wrote:
Allow scopes on muzzle loaders in Colorado, even if it restricted to 1x or 2x.


Not a flame, but I'd tend to go the other way on muzzleloaders during muzzleloader seasons. No inlines, no scopes, no sabots. Hunt in the rifle season all you want with an inline or a crossbow. If you want to hunt the primitive seasons, everyone uses primitive equipment. An inline rifle with a scope, using shotgun primers, Pyrodex pellets and a jacketed sabot bullet, just isn't. I'll grudgingly accept minie or REAL-style bullets. For myself, if Montana had a muzzleloader season, I'd be hunting with my percussion Great Plains and patched round balls. Just my opinion, your mileage may vary.


You might feel differently once age sets in and old eyes see 2-3 open sights at the same time.Colorado offers special permits for certain eye diseases, but not for old eyes that need optical help. Perscription glasses,no matter how good,still only let you see either front sight,, rear sights,or target clearly.


2nd thing. Do you apply the same standard for archery hunters. If you are an archery hunter,do you use long bow, recurve or compound bow? Do you shoot wooden arrows?


I'm sorry for your eye condition but I still agree with scubohunter that it needs to remain primitive. Unless they move muzzleloader to its own separate season. Then I don't care.

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So I need to quit ML hunting because I can't focus on sights very well now.How would making ML season a separate season help with eye problems?. That is kinda an elitetis position isn't it? " I am ok but he shouldn't be able to hunt because he can't see as well"


Nope, not at all what I was saying. I know all about old eyes. Peep sights are still primitive enough for anyone, and you only need to focus on the front sight. Use a peep rear and a globe front, and all you need to do is line up a couple of big circles, and put the deer in the middle.

Primitive seasons were established to allow the guys (and gals) who choose to hunt with primitive gear an opportunity to do so without Joe-Bob opening up from across the valley with his Gee-Whiz Sooper Magnum. They are generally during times of the year when big game is somewhat more vulnerable, since the take is expected to be lower. But when you have people out there with stainless steel, synthetic stocked inlines, shooting sabot jacketed bullets out to 300 yards, how is that primitive? Sure, it's a single shot, but so is a Sharps, and it doesn't qualify.

I do hunt with a compound bow, but I would have no heartburn with being restricted to a traditional bow with wood arrows. If I could afford one, I'd use it now. I use my compound because I'm not certain my tired 70-year-old recurve has enough energy for a clean kill. I shoot aluminum arrows because wood is not safe in a compound. I shoot a single pin sight, sighted in at 25 yards (but it can't be a lighted pin, even if it would be better for my old eyes, because that would be illegal!) I could have a new speedy compound with seven (unlighted) sight pins, and a bow-mounted laser rangefinder, and mechanical broadheads on carbon arrows, but I don't choose to violate my own definition of "primitive". And since I am not a legislator or any sort of authority, my definition of "primitive" affects nobody else but me.

This is a discussion of opinions, and I offered mine. Whatever someone else chooses to use, provided it is within the very broad restrictions of the law, is up to them to live with. Take a thought for the future, though. When the harvest in the primitive seasons becomes unsustainable, or even appears unsustainable, do you suppose they will respond by limiting all the non-primitive equipment? Nope. Season gone. No more primitive hunting seasons. And the saddest thing is, the inline people will be outraged, because "their" muzzleloading season is gone. They won't even see the role their equipment race played in it.
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Re: Laws need to be changed!! Or just to discuss ( or argue)

Postby saddlesore » 12 11, 2017 •  [Post 26]

I am already past peep sights. They went too 5 years ago blurry. If you have a blurry rear circle and a blurry front circle,thingsdon't become suddenly clar

I shoot 90gr of powder with a 348gr bullet and I don't shoot 300 yard. 100 yard is a bout max. My ML hunting is no less traditional than a side lock Hawkin which I used for years.See you lump everyone together and that isn't right.

You rationalize with several reasons why you use a compound and the only reason you don't use a recurve or long bow is that you won't buy one. I have seen recurves far less expensive than some of the newer compounds I don't think age has anything to do with energy. A 65 pound bow that still takes 65 pounds to pull 70 years later has the same capability to throw sticks.At least mine does if I could still pull it.

BTW, The archery season in Colorado was first introduced as a primitive season

You stated " When the harvest in the primitive seasons becomes unsustainable, or even appears unsustainable, do you suppose they will respond by limiting all the non-primitive equipment? Nope. Season gone. No more primitive hunting seasons. And the saddest thing is, the inline people will be outraged, because "their" muzzle loading season is gone. They won't even see the role their equipment race played in it." The very same thing is going to happen with archery seasons because the number of archers are far surpassing what w as initially envisioned.

The number of MLtags given out has not varied much since the season was established and all tags are by draw only.In comparison the number of OTC archery tags alone,not counting draw tags have increase by the thousands. Which season is unstatainable ?
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Re: Laws need to be changed!! Or just to discuss ( or argue)

Postby CurlyTail » 12 11, 2017 •  [Post 27]

Non-residents restricted from hunting on National Forest Wilderness in Wyoming rubs me the wrong way. Just plain wrong.

I think the Colorado Muzzleloader season is too good to be true, and we are lucky to be able to use as modern equipment as we are. I dont need another 100 yards (with a scope) during the rut to bag an Elk. I don't think that there are enough Archers + Muzzleloader Hunters to require blaze orange. A regulation like that would sure set off the pure Archery guys!

The new Colorado shed hunting permit is a joke, I can see them setting out a big rack on a popular hiking trail and writing tickets to everyone who picks it up.

Another pet peeve is the 3 shell waterfowl restriction. We already have a limit, who cares if you get them all in one flock or one at a time. Seems silly.

Requirement to carry Hunter Safety Card while hunting seems excessive - that should be taken care of at the time a permit is issued and not in the field. Mine is so old you cant read the numbers, and prior to computerization, records are hard to find.

Maybe we need a law to restrict long range sniper hunting, say >750 yards
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Re: Laws need to be changed!! Or just to discuss ( or argue)

Postby Elkhunttoo » 12 11, 2017 •  [Post 28]

I completely understand what saddlesore is saying with the eyes. My brother in law lost almost all of his eye sight about ten years ago yet he still does his best up hunting every year. I'm not sure how he has done some of our crazy walks out in the dark but he is as willing as anyone Ive ever hunted with. The last day of deer season this year we had a buck 200-250 yards away from us and with a 12 power scope he still couldn't make it out. It was on the side hill with nothing but grass by it, he could see it fine in the binoculars but the scope wasn't working. 20 minutes and no shot, the buck lived on. He can only look through the scope for a few seconds or his eyes won't keep focus. it has taught us to but be more patient and better hunters...

A few years ago he wanted to try archery hunting but sights are out of the question. We went to the fish and game office and in Idaho you can't use a scope on any kind of bow, the scope they will allow is a none magnetic with the 3 dots just like the sight. Well, when you can't see the dots it doesn't help any! They told him to just learn to point and shoot... well, when your maximum range is 8-10 yards it makes things pretty tough. No scopes on Muzzle loaders here in Idaho so that eliminates him from all of those hunts... I don't think everyone should be able to put a scope on a muzzle loader, but for those that can't see there needs to be something done, 3x or something, jmo
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Re: Laws need to be changed!! Or just to discuss ( or argue)

Postby husky390 » 12 11, 2017 •  [Post 29]

[quote="saddlesore"
So I need to quit ML hunting because I can't focus on sights very well now.How would making ML season a separate season help with eye problems?. That is kinda an elitetis position isn't it? " I am ok but he shouldn't be able to hunt because he can't see as well"
[/quote]

No. Because if scopes are allowed on muzzleloaders, we'll see guy's walking around with the Remington 700 Ulitmate Muzzleloader or other models that are capable of up to 300 yard or more accurate shots. That hardly sounds like a primitive hunt and more like a rifle season, therefore if scopes are to be added, why not make it its own season and allow sabots too. I'm not bashing you for your eye sight, but if scopes are allowed on muzzleloaders, this will happen. If I was a M/L hunter, I'd ditch my old T/C Hawken in a heartbeat for one of these.

https://www.remington.com/rifles/muzzle ... zzleloader
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Re: Laws need to be changed!! Or just to discuss ( or argue)

Postby husky390 » 12 11, 2017 •  [Post 30]

saddlesore wrote:
husky390 wrote:So let's force archery hunters wear blaze orange because of irresponsible front stuffers. Got it.
How about, let's make muzzleloader hunters attend an annual hunter safety course to remind them to verify their target.
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How about we cut archery season to the last two weeks of Sept and have the ML season the same as it is now so you don't have to worry about me shooting you.


Since the accident, this and other options such as us flipping early and late season every other year has been discussed by the DOW, CBA, and various M/L hunting associations.

The whole safety thing is assinine that you mention.First rule is to insure you have a safe back stop.I can't insure that if I can't see you hiding. I also can't see you if I am still hunting and run into your set up ruining my hunt or your hunt. That is a cheap shot calling front stuffers irresponsible and you know it.
It's pretty well proven that camo is not all that necessary.


You ensure that you have a safe backstop. The hunter that started all of this, did not. So rather than using a pair of binoculars to verify his target, he took the shot and now you and I are arguing about whether archery hunters should be forced to wear orange. With you wearing orange, I can see you walking into my spot and alert you to my presence or back away. I never said wearing blaze orange limits my ability of getting close to animals and am not arguing the effectiveness of camo or orange.

If the biggest bull elk I have ever seen steps out at 30 yards, and I can see a hunter with orange on 100-150 yards in back of it,I would not take the shot. If he is in full camo, I would have no way of knowing that and probably take the shot. How is that irresponsible. Seems to me the hunter not making him self visiable in a firearm season of any sort is the irresponsible one.


This happened to me this year when I was back at camp. A bull bugled behind us, we grabbed our bows, my buddy went one direction I went the other. As I was making my to the bull, two M/L hunters came running downhill towards hm and cut my access off to the bull. I stayed put, took a knee and waited until dark to back out of there. Pretty responsible on my part in my book since they had no clue I was there. Another example of being responsible is not putting myself in situations where I can get freaking shot which is why I don't hunt the units that offer early season rifle deer tags.

I don't want to be forced to wear orange because a) It's competitive enough out there and I don't want others knowing where I'm hunting. b) I'm sick and tired of being required to wear or do something due to the actions of others. And c) my opinion only, it makes hunters lazy. Rather than closely examining their target and its backstop, most, not all, just take a quick glance for orange (hopefully) and take the shot. Arizona doesn't require orange and I never had an issue when I hunted there. Weird.

And for the record, I'm a rifle hunter too and I look like the big giant pumpkin from Peanuts when I'm rifle hunting Colorado. :D
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Re: Laws need to be changed!! Or just to discuss ( or argue)

Postby husky390 » 12 11, 2017 •  [Post 31]

WapitiTalk1 wrote:I thought the wearing of blaze orange when archery and longer range weapon season(s) overlap is already mandatory? I know it is in WA (perhaps not in other states?). I personally wouldn't want to crawl around with my bow, perhaps making elk sounds, when there are other hunters in the area with longer range weapons. I have something like this buried in my gear boxes for just this purpose. It serves the "hey, I'm not a critter" purpose, and, soothes my meager camo helps my cause mind :D.

645640_ts.jpg



That vest would be illegal in CO as it has to be solid blaze orange. For 2018, I will be carrying a blaze orange beenie to avoid another incident that I had this year. I'll probably keep it handy in a pocket so I can pull it out quickly to alert others of my presence.
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Re: Laws need to be changed!! Or just to discuss ( or argue)

Postby husky390 » 12 11, 2017 •  [Post 32]

CurlyTail wrote:
Requirement to carry Hunter Safety Card while hunting seems excessive - that should be taken care of at the time a permit is issued and not in the field. Mine is so old you cant read the numbers, and prior to computerization, records are hard to find.


It was explained to me that you can link your hunter ID card to your CID and therefore you are no longer required to carry your card. I have had mine linked and do not need my card with me when I purchase licenses. All you have to do is go into a DOW office and have them link it.
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Re: Laws need to be changed!! Or just to discuss ( or argue)

Postby husky390 » 12 11, 2017 •  [Post 33]

Lefty wrote:Well start with elk hunting regulations What regulations would you like to see changed !!
The old Idaho land owner tags really use to bother me. The quality of habitat didn't matter and the tag could be used off of the property.

Some of the depredation tags here in Idaho seem to be designed to keep farmers happy.

Some baiting laws for all game.

Seasons in wilderness areas why so short?

Lighted nocks

Use of electronics

Hunting the same day as your flight


Geez Lefty, great thread proving this is going to be a loooooooonnnnnnggggggggg winter. What's next, who makes the better bow? Nah, too easy. I already know that's Elite. Best rifle, still too easy, that's Ruger. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Laws need to be changed!! Or just to discuss ( or argue)

Postby Swede » 12 11, 2017 •  [Post 34]

On the scope on muzzle loader rifles issue, I must agree with Saddlesore. The support is not unlimited and I doubt he would want unlimited access to modern technology. Permitting a minimum magnification single power scope seems reasonable for the visually impaired. It beats Oregon's allowance for shooting game for a visually impaired person. In Oregon he could also go out as a road hunter and try to get one in a drive by shooting. From what I can tell it appears there are a lot of disabled hunters in Oregon.
Saddlesore is still going out and hunting fair chase as far as I can determine. That is what really makes the difference.
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Re: Laws need to be changed!! Or just to discuss ( or argue)

Postby Roosiebull » 12 12, 2017 •  [Post 35]

Swede wrote:
saddlesore wrote:2nd thing. Do you apply the same standard for archery hunters. If you are an archery hunter, do you use long bow, recurve or compound bow? Do you shoot wooden arrows?


As an older bow hunter, I totally agree with you on this. I do not like the way bow hunting is evolving. I would prefer to restrict things a lot. A recurve bow, with a wooden match taped onto the riser for a sight is about as sophisticated as we need. Wood arrows with glue on broadheads would be fine.

An astigmatism is a pain in the rear alright. I had to deal with one for years. Before eye surgery, I could see three times the elk as anyone else if, I can see any. :D

i'm a relatively young bow hunter (though not getting any younger :D ), and I also agree. I am in the process of making the switch "we can only control ourselves" not sure if I will be hunting trad gear in 18', but in 19' for sure, just depends on progression, and a few other factors. i'm getting sick of technology in the woods, I want to take a few steps back.... and simplicity is a thing of beauty.
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Re: Laws need to be changed!! Or just to discuss ( or argue)

Postby Roosiebull » 12 12, 2017 •  [Post 36]

saddlesore wrote:
husky390 wrote:
saddlesore wrote:
scubohuntr wrote:
Allow scopes on muzzle loaders in Colorado, even if it restricted to 1x or 2x.


Not a flame, but I'd tend to go the other way on muzzleloaders during muzzleloader seasons. No inlines, no scopes, no sabots. Hunt in the rifle season all you want with an inline or a crossbow. If you want to hunt the primitive seasons, everyone uses primitive equipment. An inline rifle with a scope, using shotgun primers, Pyrodex pellets and a jacketed sabot bullet, just isn't. I'll grudgingly accept minie or REAL-style bullets. For myself, if Montana had a muzzleloader season, I'd be hunting with my percussion Great Plains and patched round balls. Just my opinion, your mileage may vary.


You might feel differently once age sets in and old eyes see 2-3 open sights at the same time.Colorado offers special permits for certain eye diseases, but not for old eyes that need optical help. Perscription glasses,no matter how good,still only let you see either front sight,, rear sights,or target clearly.


2nd thing. Do you apply the same standard for archery hunters. If you are an archery hunter,do you use long bow, recurve or compound bow? Do you shoot wooden arrows?


I'm sorry for your eye condition but I still agree with scubohunter that it needs to remain primitive. Unless they move muzzleloader to its own separate season. Then I don't care.

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So I need to quit ML hunting because I can't focus on sights very well now.How would making ML season a separate season help with eye problems?. That is kinda an elitetis position isn't it? " I am ok but he shouldn't be able to hunt because he can't see as well"


saddlesore, during any season, I would like to see medical exemptions. in your case, I would like you to be able to use optics, with a doctors note. I would like to see a crossbow option as well for medical reasons, some people get too old to draw a bow, or have a medical condition that hinders them, but still have the drive to hunt, I would like to see opportunity expand for those instances.
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Re: Laws need to be changed!! Or just to discuss ( or argue)

Postby Lefty » 12 12, 2017 •  [Post 37]

husky390 wrote:Geez Lefty, great thread proving this is going to be a loooooooonnnnnnggggggggg winter. What's next, who makes the better bow? Nah, too easy. I already know that's Elite. Best rifle, still too easy, that's Ruger. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Im going to soften this up a bit.
I may need to get rid of the ( or argue)

I own, but dont hunt with ML. I still own the recurve bought for me in 1971. I can not draw the bow I shot as a 13 year old kid.
What technology should be used What shouldn't be used?
Obviously Non resident laws can be discriminating. (Alaska and Wyoming)

My FILat 89 years old shot a little 4x4 mulie this year,.. using his ATV permit,
My dad hunted out of his pickup with a crossbow.Kids in HS 25 yards was a long shot with a recurve
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Re: Laws need to be changed!! Or just to discuss ( or argue)

Postby CurlyTail » 12 15, 2017 •  [Post 38]

husky390 wrote:
CurlyTail wrote:
Requirement to carry Hunter Safety Card while hunting seems excessive - that should be taken care of at the time a permit is issued and not in the field. Mine is so old you cant read the numbers, and prior to computerization, records are hard to find.


It was explained to me that you can link your hunter ID card to your CID and therefore you are no longer required to carry your card. I have had mine linked and do not need my card with me when I purchase licenses. All you have to do is go into a DOW office and have them link it.



This would indeed be simple enough if you are a resident of Colorado. For me to visit a Game and Parks office during normal business hours would require a full day time commitment, and frankly I have better things to do with my time. If they had a way to link your hunter safety card to the permit online, that would be very helpful indeed.
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Re: Laws need to be changed!! Or just to discuss ( or argue)

Postby Luckyman » 12 15, 2017 •  [Post 39]

I agree with saddlesore and roosie. Since Colorado are Nazis about crossbow use during archery season, I was gonna take my 72 yo dad with less than perfect shoulders for muzzle loader season, so he could use his crossbow. Guess what? Not allowed, even with an arrow flinging bow that's got less than half the range of a front loading rifle. How does that make sense?? Guess they want us to support the gun industry. He had to go and buy a TC impact. He reminded me how even tree stands were prohibited in Wisconsin and most other places a couple decades ago, so when in Rome... It would be nice if the regs would evolve and follow common sense though. Ecstatic about getting to go back out for elk next year though!! !!!
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Re: Laws need to be changed!! Or just to discuss ( or argue)

Postby >>>---WW----> » 12 16, 2017 •  [Post 40]

Luckyman: There is absolutely no reason why you Dad couldn't use his crossbow during the ML season in Colorado. All he needs to do is get his Dr. to fill out a form provided by the Colorado DPW stating his disability. It is FREE! But he will need it because ML is during the regular archery season and crossbows are not permitted unless you have a special permit for disability during the archery season,.
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Re: Laws need to be changed!! Or just to discuss ( or argue)

Postby Fridaythe13th » 12 16, 2017 •  [Post 41]

Forgive me I might be wrong but I think there is a loop hold in Idaho in the non-motorized hunting units. Every year as we are walking back to go hunting we get passed by four wheelers and we tell him that he cannot drive four wheelers on this Trail and they tell us that they are using four wheelers to set up camp. But we all know that they're staying in a 5th wheeler driving their four wheelers to their tent where they're sleeping bag is and their bow is and then they go hunting from there. I believe if it's supposed to be non-motorized keep the four-wheelers the dirt bikes off the Trails. Park them at the trailheads and get rid of that loopholed where they can use them to set up base camp. but like I said I could be wrong, that's just what they're telling us.
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Re: Laws need to be changed!! Or just to discuss ( or argue)

Postby Luckyman » 12 16, 2017 •  [Post 42]

I do realize that exemption was available, but remember the document being very draconian like needing amputation or other extremely serious problems. He's just getting old and the shoulders aren't up for pulling a bow anymore, he has seen the doctor about them, but just can't believe using such a lesser weapon requires as much. Oh and pull that scope off the crossbow and change sights, unless you're visually impaired. Come on, really? And weren't crossbows around way, way, way before muzzel loaders, if we want to bark up the "primitive weapons" tree?
I'm sure common sense and hunter input will eventually lead to making things right. Hopefully, it just doesn't take a decade or more to happen. after all, Georgia now allows you to register for a check in hunt online instead of having to drive an hour and a half round trip to physically write your name on a paper check in sheet within 24 of the beginning of the WMA hunt. It just took several years!
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Re: Laws need to be changed!! Or just to discuss ( or argue)

Postby Elkduds » 12 16, 2017 •  [Post 43]

Luckyman wrote:I do realize that exemption was available, but remember the document being very draconian like needing amputation or other extremely serious problems. He's just getting old and the shoulders aren't up for pulling a bow anymore, he has seen the doctor about them, but just can't believe using such a lesser weapon requires as much. Oh and pull that scope off the crossbow and change sights, unless you're visually impaired.


My experience in getting a CO disability Xbow permit was far from draconian. 2 years ago the rule requiring open sights for crossbows during archery season was amended to allow 1x nonmagnified and red dot scopes.

Here is a proposed law that should NOT happen:

HR 1349 just passed the natural resource committee on its ways to the House. If you aren't familiar with it this bill would amend the Wilderness Act to read Section 4(c) of the Wilderness Act (16 U.S.C. 1133(c)) is amended by adding at the end the following: “Nothing in this section shall prohibit the use of motorized wheelchairs, non-motorized wheelchairs, non-motorized bicycles, strollers, wheelbarrows, survey wheels, measuring wheels, or game carts within any wilderness area."

Opposed, no bikes in Wilderness! Share your views w legislators.

https://www.backcountryhunters.org/w...slow_down_here
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Re: Laws need to be changed!! Or just to discuss ( or argue)

Postby Lefty » 12 17, 2017 •  [Post 44]

Fridaythe13th wrote:Forgive me I might be wrong but I think there is a loop hold in Idaho in the non-motorized hunting units. Every year as we are walking back to go hunting we get passed by four wheelers and we tell him that he cannot drive four wheelers on this Trail and they tell us that they are using four wheelers to set up camp. But we all know that they're staying in a 5th wheeler driving their four wheelers to their tent where they're sleeping bag is and their bow is and then they go hunting from there. I believe if it's supposed to be non-motorized keep the four-wheelers the dirt bikes off the Trails. Park them at the trailheads and get rid of that loopholed where they can use them to set up base camp. but like I said I could be wrong, that's just what they're telling us.

For a few years the word got out that if you had a sleeping bag and a tent you could get by with it. And many were trying that stunt
I use to ATV in, camp then hunt. Some other fellows were hunting and doing the same thing. The one year we woke to a group "going to" set up camp. The one fellow was so mad,he packed up then found local CO.
From my understanding, that area others dont try that stunt anymore.

Ive had too many stalks ruined by guys on ATV's.
I have the one local CO's number, text pictures and location. Always seems to be the guys with brand new machines trying to skirt the law,
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Re: Laws need to be changed!! Or just to discuss ( or argue)

Postby Fridaythe13th » 12 18, 2017 •  [Post 45]

For a few years the word got out that if you had a sleeping bag and a tent you could get by with it. And many were trying that stunt
I use to ATV in, camp then hunt. Some other fellows were hunting and doing the same thing. The one year we woke to a group "going to" set up camp. The one fellow was so mad,he packed up then found local CO.
From my understanding, that area others dont try that stunt anymore.

Ive had too many stalks ruined by guys on ATV's.
I have the one local CO's number, text pictures and location. Always seems to be the guys with brand new machines trying to skirt the law,[/quote]

Can I get that CO number LOL. The elk just move in another mile. And it's steady a 1:15 walk before we un-cases our bows
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Re: Laws need to be changed!! Or just to discuss ( or argue)

Postby Lefty » 12 18, 2017 •  [Post 46]

Fridaythe13th wrote:,


Can I get that CO number LOL. The elk just move in another mile. And it's steady a 1:15 walk before we un-cases our bows[/quote]

PM me the unit and Ill get you the CO s number . They have really been cracking down on the abusers
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