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Bull calling cows bugle

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Bull calling cows bugle

Postby Joe Schmo » 02 10, 2018 •  [Post 1]

I stumbled across the dude from Iron Mind Hunting and I’m super intrigued, dude is intense!! He speaks with such confidence that I just know I’m gonna check out more of his stuff, especially the mental shooting stuff.
So, what are your thoughts on the “BULL CALLING COWS BUGLE”?? It makes sense to me that a bull with cows would respond well to that within 100 yards or so but it seems like that’s dang near the only sound Joel uses to call em in and kill em and it works!!!
Thoughts?
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Re: Bull calling cows bugle

Postby >>>---WW----> » 02 10, 2018 •  [Post 2]

I take it you are talking about Joel Turner. He is a former world champion caller. And his success speaks for itself. His theory on (bull calling cows) can be very productive. I have run into that very situation where I was making cow sounds and the bull was trying to call me to him. Make a bull think you have a few cows and you are talking to them , and he will come to check you out.

Also, Joel is one heck of a bare bow shooter.
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Re: Bull calling cows bugle

Postby Swede » 02 10, 2018 •  [Post 3]

I listened to Joel one time. I have no doubt he can effectively hunt elk. My impression was that he thinks he has a corner on how to do it and his system is the way. What he calls "iron mind" is confidence and determination. He is selling that stuff, but if you pay attention here you can get it for free.
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Re: Bull calling cows bugle

Postby Joe Schmo » 02 10, 2018 •  [Post 4]

Ok. Let’s not BS ourselves PaulNUT has a system that he is selling and thinks he has a corner on how to do it and his way is the way...does he not? For the record I have bought Paul’s system and I just got a beautiful euro bull on the wall last week because of it. Yes, To say that Joel takes his mental preparation seriously would be a understatement!! I personally believe that 9 out of 10 hunters sell themselves, and thus their quarry, short when it comes to practicing shooting...I’m one of them.
Back on point...bull calling cow bugle. Is it that bugle Paul talks about when you get in close and force the bull to defend what is his? Maybe it’s just the difference between how Joel and Paul talk about it, Joel makes it seem move passive as opposed to Paul saying to give it all you got. Thoughts?
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Re: Bull calling cows bugle

Postby Swede » 02 10, 2018 •  [Post 5]

Joe, I don't disagree with either Joel or Paul on what they are trying to teach. I think there is some over reach on both accounts. Neither has the patent or franchise on how to get elk. Their systems all have their strong points and advocates. Wisdom is finding what works where and applying it properly. Sometimes I think these hunters give something a name and try to sell it.
I know of hunters that are normally very tight lipped on where and how they hunt, but they are every bit as accomplished as the best here. You have to know them well personally to get anything out of them, and you need to find them in just the right mood.
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Re: Bull calling cows bugle

Postby WapitiTalk1 » 02 10, 2018 •  [Post 6]

Yes sir, its an excellent call to use when in close. Just imagine if somebody was hollering at your gal outside of your living room ;). I've heard Joel Turner talk about it (he's actually a local guy where I live), and, of course Mr. Elknut has talked about this elk sound for many, many years. It's a killer when deployed properly!
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Re: Bull calling cows bugle

Postby Joe Schmo » 02 11, 2018 •  [Post 7]

Thanks guys. Last year was the first year that I really dove into the elknut playbook, listened to it like 18 times over the summer!! I realized that I don’t know nothin about calling elks!! I guess I just get overwhelmed by the Nut’s info and some stuff goes over my head so I thought the “bulls calling cows bugle” was a new kinda thing. I’m such a rookie!! Getting pumped for this year...
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Re: Bull calling cows bugle

Postby saddlesore » 02 11, 2018 •  [Post 8]

I try and try,but can't remember all that stuff. I go go and kill really stupid elk that have not read the books. :lol:
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Re: Bull calling cows bugle

Postby Swede » 02 11, 2018 •  [Post 9]

Schmo, you and Saddlesore are making some very good points. I agree that sometimes calling is made too difficult. Guys like Elknut and Joel are teaching some good stuff, but in order for it to work for you, it needs to be salted with a lot of experience. That experience will lead you in some different directions based on your area and how the elk will react.
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Re: Bull calling cows bugle

Postby ElkNut1 » 02 12, 2018 •  [Post 10]

As a bowhunter, it's important to understand elk communication, it's not too tough, Bulls Bugle & Cows Mew. When either change the tone, emotion or intensity of socializing their sound they are sending a message to other elk as necessary. In the case of Joe's question he's referring to a Lip Bawl Bugle that bulls use to round up their cows or in an effort to call cows to them that are not yet theirs! The Lip Bawl is a more demanding tone that the bull is asking for quick or urgent action from the cow or cows he is talking too. Herd bulls & Satellites both use it when the time is needed for this Bugle Tone!

Problems can arise to the hunter if he thinks so much of this Bugle that he uses it on every bull, the results would be poor at best, the same could apply to most elk sounds, right time right place right sounds!

This is simple elk communication not a system of sorts? Not sure where the phrase system applies? (grin)

Joe, the info we share has been around for near 20 years now! We have updated & clarified a few things as anyone would in that time frame. 20 years ago calling elk was not nearly as tough as it is today with many more hunters & wolves in many western states, we've all had to up our game! I suspect you have the older DVD's & not the newer stuff that is more updated, it all works but we have re-phrased things for better understanding! Take the New APP for instance, we cover the Lip Bawl Bugle & how to make it along with its meaning & many options of its use depending on when you hear it or when its use is needed by the hunter. With its New Recording Feature you can polish up ones sounds even quicker & better.

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Re: Bull calling cows bugle

Postby CurlyTail » 02 12, 2018 •  [Post 11]

I have looked at the "Bull calling cow Bugle" and I think it will be a fine peak rut calling strategy. Have not tried it myself yet as peak rut turned into peak crappy weather for me this past season. I am also excited to try it.
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Re: Bull calling cows bugle

Postby Swede » 02 12, 2018 •  [Post 12]

ElkNut1 wrote: it's important to understand elk communication, it's not too tough, Bulls Bugle & Cows Mew.


It is real easy to know what to do?
Is it rut or pre-rut? You heard a bugle wafting through the timber, but what was it? Where was it? You listen and give out a bugle. You decide he is about 600 yards away on the side hill. You get close, but where is he? Do I move forward more or stop and listen? Should I bugle again now? Dang, I wish that bull would call again. Is he alone or with cows? Maybe I heard a satellite bull. Should I cow call or bugle?
I think I will try a few cow mews and listen. Nothing. So I try a bugle again. Dang! Now he is farther away, and it appears he is headed for that dark timber area on Wooley Mtn. Is he alone? I still can't tell, but he is not cooperating. I don't know if it is the wolves or hunting pressure, but the elk don't seem to want to ever come close enough for a shot. I will see if I can catch up and interest him in some new elk music. What tune will he dance to? I wish I had Elknut out here, but like cops that are never around when you want one, he is nowhere available. This is the sixth time this hunt, I have played this game and still have not loosed an arrow. I must be doing something wrong, but this sure is simple. :D
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Re: Bull calling cows bugle

Postby Joe Schmo » 02 12, 2018 •  [Post 13]

When you're trying to sound like a bull, use bull sounds.
When you're trying to sound like a cow, use cow sounds.
Simple :)
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Re: Bull calling cows bugle

Postby Swede » 02 12, 2018 •  [Post 14]

Joe Schmo wrote:When you're trying to sound like a bull, use bull sounds.When you're trying to sound like a cow, use cow sounds. Simple


WOW. Such a profound statement.
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Re: Bull calling cows bugle

Postby Joe Schmo » 02 12, 2018 •  [Post 15]

Just following the lead of Mr Nut ;)
Really though I believe “it” is just the lip-bawl bugle as elkNut said and I recall from the books. Yes probably not a good idea to solely rely on that method 100% of the time.
The dammed problem with this whole deal is that I (we?) gain elk knowledge only on or two weeks a year and much like everything hunting it’s the experiences and how you learn from them that makes you a better hunter/caller/packer/preparer/scouter/trainer/planner......
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Re: Bull calling cows bugle

Postby Swede » 02 13, 2018 •  [Post 16]

Schmo, I know what you mean. Sometimes it is quite simple, then on others, it is so aggravating. The Nut makes it sound easy. It seems like, just do this and wa-la, here come the elk. It takes about two hours elk hunting experience to realize there is a reason only about 10% of the elk hunters killing elk each year. I have seen some elk callers with enough calls draped around their neck to be mistaken for a Hawaiian celebrity in camo, but they have no elk. These hunters never have any elk. They are like a girl dressed up for a date, but no one came to pick them up. :D
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Re: Bull calling cows bugle

Postby MTLongdraw » 02 13, 2018 •  [Post 17]

I'm laughing as I read this. I showed Joel's YouTube video to my cousin last spring. I also showed him ElkNuts stuff as I am a disciple. He was so adamant Joel's was better and easier to understand. I explained to him that it's the same as a lip bawl. Nope nope nope so when he tried to BCC a bull in and it didn't work I said see you should have lip bawled him. A few minutes later we were on another bull and I had him coming on a string. Unfortunately the wind shifted last second and he never fully committed. After that he was mesmerized at how I did that. Lip bawl of course :lol:
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Re: Bull calling cows bugle

Postby ElkNut1 » 02 14, 2018 •  [Post 18]

" It is real easy to know what to do?
Is it rut or pre-rut? You heard a bugle wafting through the timber, but what was it? Where was it? You listen and give out a bugle. You decide he is about 600 yards away on the side hill. You get close, but where is he? Do I move forward more or stop and listen? Should I bugle again now? Dang, I wish that bull would call again. Is he alone or with cows? Maybe I heard a satellite bull. Should I cow call or bugle?
I think I will try a few cow mews and listen. Nothing. So I try a bugle again. Dang! Now he is farther away, and it appears he is headed for that dark timber area on Wooley Mtn. Is he alone? I still can't tell, but he is not cooperating. I don't know if it is the wolves or hunting pressure, but the elk don't seem to want to ever come close enough for a shot. I will see if I can catch up and interest him in some new elk music. What tune will he dance to? I wish I had Elknut out here, but like cops that are never around when you want one, he is nowhere available. This is the sixth time this hunt, I have played this game and still have not loosed an arrow. I must be doing something wrong, but this sure is simple. :D"


swede, now I see why you're a treestand hunter! (big grin) I bet you go through a similar 'over thinking process' when you golf! (grin)

Joe, you are 100% spot on with the handicap hunters have that only see elk country 2 weeks out of he year! This is why the APP & other elk info is so important to take in! Gives a hunter a fighting chance as he heads out west! At the end of Feb. there's a new update coming on the APP that is titled 'Beginner Hunter Tips' -- If new guys applied those two things as I describe you would be in elk nearly everyday!


MTLongdraw, tell your buddy Joel picked up the Lip Bawl Bugle from me, whether a hunter wants to apply more emotion or less emotion to it would depend on the situation! It's not hard to take an elk sound & explain it in a way that it may sound more glamorous & exciting, point is it's still a Lip Bawl! (grin) Right place right time it's my goto Bugle! Wrong time & it sucks! (grin)

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Re: Bull calling cows bugle

Postby >>>---WW----> » 02 14, 2018 •  [Post 19]

Elknut wrote: Tell your buddy Joel picked up the Lip Bawl Bugle from me!

And might I ask just who you picked it up from?
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Re: Bull calling cows bugle

Postby Swede » 02 14, 2018 •  [Post 20]

ElkNut1 wrote:swede, now I see why you're a tree stand hunter! (big grin) I bet you go through a similar 'over thinking process' when you golf! (grin)


Paul, you may be partly right, but I have never played a hole of golf. :D .
Over the years close encounters with the elk were becoming fewer as many migrated to the ranch early in the season. I was finding I had much better success by waiting in a good tree stand.

When I first started hunting near where I lived, it was common to go out and hear five or six bulls bugling back and forth. As the years progressed things changed to the point that often I do not hear a single bugle all season on the public land. Where I hunt, if I hear a bugle now, I immediately suspect it is a hunter, and more than likely I am right. As I have written several times here, herds often leave upon hearing a bugle. They don't come back until the next Spring or Summer.
This past season our group of hunters went three of five in four days hunting out of a stand. We should have gone four for five, but my rest was moved a little low and I missed. Where I hunted in Idaho with friends, we went one for four. That bull was shot out of a tree stand. The two dedicated callers got nada.
Elk on a pack frame is mostly the reason I have gone to tree stand hunting. Tree stand hunting is simple. I did not have to write several books, make multiple DVDs or have an I Phone app to explain how it works. One book was enough to show anyone interested all they need to know to be deadly on elk. :D
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Re: Bull calling cows bugle

Postby ElkNut1 » 02 14, 2018 •  [Post 21]

WW, I was referring to the definition or message being sent by a bull using a Lip Bawl! I learned this on my own, didn't read it in a book or other source. Ask Joel, he'll tell you that he picked this message up from me. The Bugle is just another bugle tone, the message is what it's all about as are other elk sounds!

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Re: Bull calling cows bugle

Postby Brendan » 02 14, 2018 •  [Post 22]

ElkNut1 wrote:As a bowhunter, it's important to understand elk communication, it's not too tough, Bulls Bugle & Cows Mew.


Unless it's a bull mewing like a cow while he comes straight at you trying to come get some.... I would have bet serious money it was a cow on both occasions I've heard it, and on both occasions I would've been wrong.
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Re: Bull calling cows bugle

Postby ElkNut1 » 02 14, 2018 •  [Post 23]

Yes, I mentioned it in tongue & cheek! (grin) Bulls mew & cows can bugle! I too have had bulls mewing & bugling in the same instance coming to our calling. I like it when it's a bull & not a cow! (grin) Thanks for mentioning it!

On the Sounds By The Elk CD on # 14 you'll hear a Bull mew & bugle all in the same breath, this is one of my goto sounds when I have to pull out all the stops trying to call a hot cow from a herd bull, I generally use this as a last resort along with 2-3 pants! Here's the clip! Listen very close!

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